Toyota-Mods Postings Nov 1993

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ _______ ^^^ ^^^ ,' - _ ^^^ ^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^ ^^^ , ' | ^^^ ^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^ ^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^ ^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ P O S T I N G S Nov 1993 ^^^ ^^^ --------------------------- ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: New Member! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 13:57:00 PST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > >Introducing our newest list member, Jon Hacker... > >> My name is Jon Hacker and I am an electrical engineer at Bellcore in >> Red Bank, NJ. I have a 1982 Toyota Supra GTS with 110,000 miles. I >> am currently rebuilding a salvaged head for this car. Once complete, Correct me if I am wrong. The Supra came in two models, the Luxury (LT) and sports (flares, bigger tires, recardo like seats, etc). The celicas came in three models: ST, GT, and GTS Does this guy really have an '82 Toyota Celica GTS or an '82 Toyota Supra (sports)? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 16:58:24 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: New Member! > From: "" > > >> My name is Jon Hacker and I am an electrical engineer at Bellcore in > >> Red Bank, NJ. I have a 1982 Toyota Supra GTS with 110,000 miles. I > >> am currently rebuilding a salvaged head for this car. Once complete, > > Correct me if I am wrong. The Supra came in two models, the Luxury (LT) and > sports (flares, bigger tires, recardo like seats, etc). > > The celicas came in three models: ST, GT, and GTS > > Does this guy really have an '82 Toyota Celica GTS or an '82 Toyota Supra > (sports)? > I was thinking about the same thing. But, I remembered that the Supra's original name was "Celica Supra." So, I immediately resisted the temptation of sending a mail to all about this. Does anyone know? -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 17:32:39 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Magazine info & Misc.. An interesting publication I came across recently is entitled GrassRoots Motorsports, main theme is autcrossing. Info as follows: GRASSROOTS Motorsports P.O Box 5907 Dayton Beach Florida 32118 PRICE: 3.95 US 4.95 CANADA online compsurve address is: 72123,2625 Any one interested in a limited slip differential for their car (FWD or RWD) might want to check out CRE RT. 122 Worcester Rd. Barre, MA 01005 508-355-2864 (sorry no fax listed) They make limited slip differentials for the more popular cars. They will even make one if you send them an old diff (They only need a particular part of the diff.). Cost is $500 to $550, which is cheaper than an LSD from TRD. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 03:31:35 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: New Member! Celica - Supra of the early years is Called a Selica-Supra GTS. You are Correct Errol. This first year (maybe i think) has the digtal dash board and the flag ship of the new Supra's. Supra was dropped after the 1985 Supra Model i belive. I Think he has a Selica GTS with the fender trim and the sports seats and the 14 x 6 1/2 aluminum rims. Celica is the basis of the Supra since 1980 when the 5MG was First introduced. (the 5m is used in HKS-1 btw just for food for thought) the name was changed in 1985 for the "books" i belive. The Corolla Tercel till 1983 was another example of this. -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: New Member! Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 9:23:55 PST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam > >Celica - Supra of the early years is Called a Selica-Supra GTS. You are >Correct Errol. This first year (maybe i think) has the digtal dash board >and the flag ship of the new Supra's. The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. >Supra was dropped after the 1985 Supra >Model i belive. This is a bit confusing. I assume you mean the Celica name was dropped from the "Celica-Supra" name. Gary (whowasreallyintocelicasandsuprasbackthen) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 13:48:48 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica-Supra > The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". > Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, > but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, > with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! In 1982 there was Celica Supra GTS Celica Supra L The L was the luxury model with digital dash. The GTS had the 225-60HR14 tires, fender flares, nice seats, limited slip diff, and an analog dash. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:08:45 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com > From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". > > Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, > > but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, > > with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > In 1982 there was Celica Supra GTS > Celica Supra L > > The L was the luxury model with digital dash. The GTS had the 225-60HR14 > tires, fender flares, nice seats, limited slip diff, and an analog > dash. > Hey Jonathan: Which engine came in this car? -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:12:56 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Supra Rear-ends (was New Member) Okay, Gary (long distinguished Supra/Celica title left out) and Jon (I own one)...I want to get a Supra Rear end with the live (solid) rear axle _and_ the limited slip differential...What year and what model should I be looking for? Was the 82 Supra L a solid axle? Were any other years Solid Axle and LSD? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:14:03 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Oops... Oops...I meant did the 82 GTS have a Solid rear axle? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:22:15 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Truly a Supra > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > > > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > -Errol. > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > Jon > Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:00:24 PST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! Hmmmm... Ok, if you own one then you have the final word. I know there was the L type (luxury) and the sports, but no where in the brochures was it called the GTS. Very interesting. > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > -Errol. > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > Jon > ** Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. That's definately true. Chris --> I do not know if the Celica GTS has a solid axel (I should), but the Supra "GTS" or Supra Sport has LSD. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Truly a Supra To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:54:28 -0500 (EST) > From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) > > > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > Hmmmm... Ok, if you own one then you have the final word. I know there > was the L type (luxury) and the sports, but no where in the brochures was > it called the GTS. Very interesting. > > > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > > > -Errol. > > > > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > > > Jon > > > > ** Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. > > That's definately true. > > Chris --> I do not know if the Celica GTS has a solid axel (I should), > but the Supra "GTS" or Supra Sport has LSD. > > Gary The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier years... Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Celica Supras vs. Supras Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 10:56:52 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com FYI. Supras were Celica Supras through the the first half of 1986. A 1986 Supra is a Celica Supra, but a 1986.5 Supra is just a Supra. 1982-1986 Celica Supras (MA61) had 2.8 liter, 12 valve engines (5MGE) Body work was based on the Celica, but had a longer hood. 1986.5-1993 Supras (MA70) had 3.0 liter, 24 valve engines (7MGE) Body work was Supra only, no Celica derivation. I don't know much about pre-1982 or 1994-onward Supras. My Supra was made in October of 1985, and all the documentation for it, including the owners manual and factory service manual call it a '1986.' I don't know how the documention is labeled for a 1986.5 Supra. For all I know, it might also read '1986.' I think the only difference between 1985 and 1986 Celica Supras is the third-brake light present on the 1986 models. It is possible that some 1985's have the third-brake light, I don't know. The fact that my Celica Supra is a 1986 leads to a great deal of confusion with mechanics. I usually have to say something like: 'It's a 1986, which is like a 1985, not a 1987, it has a 2.8 liter engine.' If Toyota hadn't changed the engine size between 1986 and 1986.5, I'd almost never be able to tell mechanics what type of car I have. Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Re: Celica Supras vs. Supras To: danapple@vicor.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:26:58 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > FYI. Supras were Celica Supras through the the first half of 1986. A > 1986 Supra is a Celica Supra, but a 1986.5 Supra is just a Supra. > > 1982-1986 Celica Supras (MA61) had 2.8 liter, 12 valve engines (5MGE) > Body work was based on the Celica, but had a longer hood. > 1986.5-1993 Supras (MA70) had 3.0 liter, 24 valve engines (7MGE) > Body work was Supra only, no Celica derivation. > > I don't know much about pre-1982 or 1994-onward Supras. > > My Supra was made in October of 1985, and all the documentation for > it, including the owners manual and factory service manual call it a > '1986.' > > I don't know how the documention is labeled for a 1986.5 Supra. For > all I know, it might also read '1986.' > > I think the only difference between 1985 and 1986 Celica Supras is the > third-brake light present on the 1986 models. It is possible that > some 1985's have the third-brake light, I don't know. > > The fact that my Celica Supra is a 1986 leads to a great deal of > confusion with mechanics. I usually have to say something like: 'It's > a 1986, which is like a 1985, not a 1987, it has a 2.8 liter engine.' > > If Toyota hadn't changed the engine size between 1986 and 1986.5, I'd > almost never be able to tell mechanics what type of car I have. > > Dan. I have owned both an 85 Supra and an 89 Supra. You are right, There is such a beast as an 1986.5 Supra which is the 24 valve engine and later body style. If your meachanic can not tell the difference, tell him! 1986.5 was the cut off of the older body style to the newer one, As you ALL know now there is even the newer new body style which is called the 1994 model and has all the bells and whistle and is still heavy! Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 12:51:39 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com > abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu writes: > The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the > independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier > years... I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a semi-trailing arm rear suspension. You'd have to go to pre-1982 Celicas or Supras to get a solid axle. But, if the diff is 7.5", you could probably use a 1982- Supra LSD in it. > Aaron Buhr Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:15:11 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: danapple@vicor.com Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a > semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. > > I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras > through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a > semi-trailing arm rear suspension. > > You'd have to go to pre-1982 Celicas or Supras to get a solid axle. > But, if the diff is 7.5", you could probably use a 1982- Supra LSD in > it. > Dan... I think he is right that only the Celica GTS versions (the ones with fender flares and 225 60HR14 tires) had the IRS. I am going to check this out tonight when I get home. Jon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Truly a Supra To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:18:33 -0500 (EST) > > abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu writes: > > > The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the > > independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier > > years... > > I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a > semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. I might be confused about the rear being MacPherson struts. I thought that when I had my suspension replaced (after hopping a curb sideways) they put struts on all 4 corners, but I could be mis-remembering. But read on... > I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras > through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a > semi-trailing arm rear suspension. This info is remembered from either the '83 Car & Driver or '83 Road & Track review of the '83 Celica GT-S (I have both reviews): the _GT-S_ (as opposed to _GT_) option for Celicas was not offered until '83. The review specifically stated that one of the items included in the GT-S package was the Supra rear suspension, which leads me to believe the other Celicas (ST & GT?) had a different suspension. The other things the GT-S adds are the Supra seats and fuel injection, at least in the '83 model year. The reviewers concluded the GT-S was essentially a Supra but with the 2.4 22RE engine. In addition, I thought those rods poking up into the luggage area in the back of the hatchback indicated the presence of MacPherson struts, which apparently need quite a bit of vertical space. I'll look the stuff up again when I get home. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:23:53 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Uhmmmm...I _know_ I am confused. Here's what I am sure about...(I will refer to the Celica and the Supra as separate cars, regardless of the year. I think this is easier.) The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. Unfortunately for me, it did not have the LSD or the larger 7.5 inch differential. (BTW, I don't think any Celica had an LSD.) An LSD for the T series 6.7" Differential (Celica) is $700 from TRD. The LSD for the F series 7.5" differential (Supra) is $500 or so from TRD, and they are available from a number of sources (including Reider Racing [thank you very much, Koji]) for much less. I was quoted $200 for a Supra rear-end from a local junk yard. Since most junk yards don't have a clue (nor do they care) about what car has what differential, I am hoping to get a solid axle F series Rearend _with_ the stock LSD. I am not even particular about what I pull it from (pardon the dangling participle.) The F series was used in the 2wd truck and the Cressida, as well. I am sure that if I had my TRD catalog handy, I could find out, but what year did the Supra go to the IRS? And who knows if any of the Supra solid axles had the LSD (or any of the other vehicles I mentioned.) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:29:57 -0500 (EST) > > Uhmmmm...I _know_ I am confused. Here's what I am sure about...(I will > refer to the Celica and the Supra as separate cars, regardless of the > year. I think this is easier.) > > The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a > step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" > body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Unfortunately for me, it did not have the LSD or the larger 7.5 inch > differential. (BTW, I don't think any Celica had an LSD.) I'm pretty sure my '83 Celica GT-S had rear drums, so I can't believe the ST & GT had discs... I really need to check those reviews again. Also, I think you're right about no LSD for any Celicas, at least pre-'86 Celicas. It may have even been optional on Supras... > I am sure that if I had my TRD catalog handy, I could find out, but what > year did the Supra go to the IRS? And who knows if any of the Supra > solid axles had the LSD (or any of the other vehicles I mentioned.) Supras had the IRS in '82, 'sfar as I know. Available on Celicas in the GT-S package starting in '83. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:00:45 PST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > >The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a >step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" >body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. Chris, The '82 celica does not have rear disc brakes. Only the front has disc brakes. The rear were drums. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:37:15 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: discs on '82 Celica/etc >The '82 celica does not have rear disc brakes. Only the front has disc >brakes. The rear were drums. Darn it, bad info again! Chris PS...I am _so_close_ to getting our scanner running, and am using a picture of me with the old '78 Celica in Victory Lane (4th place, actually) as a test picture. I don't know if anyone would be interested, (and since I am sure not everyone would be I will not mass post it,) but I will send it to whomever wants to see what a $150 race car looks like. Let me know. PPS...Hopefully, I'll have some pics of the '81 Celica when I start racing it again a week from Friday... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:42:54 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Hydraulic lash adjuster removal I have been disassembling the head of a 5MGE Supra engine (DOHC 12 valve inline six). I am having great difficulty sliding the hydraulic lash adjusters out of their respective bores in the head. It seems that a thin layer of varnish builds up half way up the bore wall and catches on the lower lip of adjuster preventing its removal. I have to tease it out with a lot of patience and WD-40. Its taking me about 30-45 mins per adjuster and I'm getting frustrated. Once the varnish is removed they slide in and out effortlessly. Any ideas on this one? Jon Hacker xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Celica and Supra rear-ends Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 14:57:08 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This rear suspension stuff is getting too confusing. I'm way more confused than when I started the day. But, in my Supra, the two humps in the hatchback area are the shock-absorber mounting points. A MacPherson strut has the coil spring coaxial with the shock. The semi-trailing arm in the 1986 Celica Supra has non-coaxial shocks and springs. In a MacPherson strut, the strut provides location for the wheel. In the semi-trailing arm, the spring and shock don't locate the wheel, but the arm does. Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:50:01 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Celica/Supra thread First, thank you 4AGx and 3TC folks for bearing with all of this Celica/Supra stuff hogging the bandwidth. I suppose some of your delete keys were getting a workout. Now, in order to clean up my inbox without losing any of this valuable info, I have developed a little table, below. I know I am risking generating another mail storm, but I have never seen this info presented so concisely anywhere else. And since we are going to publish this stuff some day, we need to get together and get it right. If you don't want to mail the entire list, just mail me and I will get it included. I will mail it out after we make some progress on it. The table below is simply a common format. If there is one thing I have learned from all of this, it is that I am not sure of _anything_ right now. Please submit to me all of the stuff you _know_ or think you know. After reviewing all of the mail on this subject, we still have some disagreements, but we'll resolve those. I think this info is vital, because if you are the owner of one of these cars, you need to know what parts will interchange with others, etc. Maybe we can do something similar later for the Corolla/MR2/Starlet /FX16/whatever folks. YR Model Option Body Engine R.Brakes Axle LSD? Comments ==+======+=======+====+======+========+=====+====+================= 78 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N New body style 78 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 79 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N 79 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 80 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N 80 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 81 Celica GT R 22R Drum Solid N 81 Celica ST Rc 22R Drum Solid N 82 Celica GT T 22R Drum Solid N New Body style 82 Celica ST Tc 22R Drum Solid N New Body style 82 Celica Sup L T+ 5MGE Disc IRS N Digital Dash 82 Celica Sup GTS T+ 5MGE Disc IRS Y Sport Kit (Start the Supras as a separate model in 86.5) YR Model Option Body Engine R.Brakes Axle LSD? Comments ====+======+=======+====+======+========+=====+====+================== 86.5 Supra Key to body styles: F: Old fastback style, resembled early Mustang ?-77 R: Round 78-81 T: Triangular 82-? A: Aerodynamic ?-? ? "c" after the body indicates coupe. (I know _nothing_ about Celicas after about 85, so help me here...) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 12:49:56 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Celica rear ends, disc brakes and stuff.... My head is spinning with all the different comments..... Chris, This is probably of more use to you, but I'll post here as the info may be useful to others... I have the complete rear end from a 78 celica transplanted on my starlet. (solid axle with large drum brakes). One of the reasons I went with this year as against say an 85 corolla GTS rear end, is due to the width, and strength of the Diff itself (6.7" vs 6.3" -- I think the gts has a 6.3" diff), also the gts rear end would have caused my rims/tires to hang out about 3 inches on either side of the car). Minor detail, but I wasn't interested at the time in having fender body work done. The springs and shocks are not *coxial* ie they are side by side. On of the things I plan to do is to get a coil over conversion from select sales (US $350.00 for the pair). What this coil-over shock does is replace both the coil spring and the shock that's currently used, the coil-over just bolts in where the stock shock is. I think a few minor mods are necessary (nothing you couldn't do yourself) This set up would allow one to easily lower/raise the height of the car for a particular setup. With regards to rear Disc Brakes, I am planning to get the disc/caliper assembly from a 85-87 corolla GTS and adapt it to my 78 celica rear end, not a major to do, but I think a bit of welding is involved. (This is what all the guys with the hot Starlets in Barbados are using). With regards to a Supra rear ends, While it is great for stopping the tank, er I mean supra, The added weight of the rotors/caliper assembly might be something to consider in your suspension setup. (There's no free lunch). Also you didn't take into account the number of wheel bolts, vs the smallest wheel size the brake system will fit under. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: '83 Celica GT-S specs To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:57:15 -0500 (EST) Ok, I found my reviews. Just to clear up some of the confusion, here's what they say for the 1983 Celica GT-S: Suspension: Front: MacPherson struts, lower lateral arms, compliance struts, coil springs, tube shocks, anti-roll bar Rear: Semi-trailing arms, coil springs, tube shocks, anti-roll bar Engine (22RE) : Type: SOHC inline-4 Bore & stroke: 3.62 x 3.50, 91.9 x 88.9 Displacement: 144 ci., 2367 cc. Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 BHp@rpm: 105 @ 4800 Torque@rpm: 137@2800 Curb Weight, base: 2775 One of the quotes that I had been trying to remember: "Last year's GT-S added the Supra's 225/60HR-14 tires but stayed with the Celica's live rear axle. This year Toyota went the extra distance (and cost), fitting the semi-trailing arm independent rear suspension from the Supra." The reviews were the January '83 Road & Track and the October '83 Car & Driver. Hope someone finds this useful/interesting... (Chris?) :) Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:19:35 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Supplier..... Anyone wanting a "cheap" set of cams for their toyota, might do well to give the guys at Earl motorsports in England a call at: 0625-433773 Fax: 0625-433614 Contact Gary. They stock kent cams for the AE86, (That's how ther refer to the 4AGE in the RWD corollas. Price is A376 for 2 cams! either 282 deg. duration, 10.3 mm lift, or 306 deg. 10.16 mm. lift. (They also have less agressive cams). Hey if you can buy cams for a Lada, anything is possible. I am looking for a set of vernier sliding cam pulleys for the 4AGE, they didn't have one specifically, but may have one for another engine that might work..) -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:43:44 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: 1994 Toyota Atlantic race cars.. I recently spoke to a company that builds Atlantic spec 4AGE engines here in Toronto, (I was given their number by Electromotive as a source for their products, Actually they gave me two numbers , but the other place deals in porsche, ferrarri etc..... er NOT!). Apparently the new regulations for 94 will have the cars switching to fuel injection systems, (possibly electromotive) (recall they previously used Twin Carbs) as a result, many teams will have some spare parts, and since some teams go into a season with six spare engines, I was told they might be interested in selling some of their spares.. I'll keep you guys posted if anything looks "interesting". Note 70% of the cost of an atlantic spec engine is Labour related! -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:21:43 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Sending Pictures I realize this isn't very Toyota specific, but I thought maybe others of you may want to send images of their cars to interested list members, and I didn't want this info to be lost. First, in order to send a picture over any email system, it must be uuencoded. uuencoding changes all of the non-ascii codes to something in ascii, so that it can be uudecoded at the other end, turning it back into a binary. Unfortunately, uuencoding also increases an image's size by about 35%. After it is uuencoded, it can be split into parts. While this is probably not necessary, some older mail daemons will trash messages if they are too large. This is also true on multi-user systems. The "split" utility can be used here. Actually, I used a utility called uuxfer to both encode and split the files. If you don't have it, use archie to find it, get it and compile it. Then: uuxfer -m -eracecar2.jpg will both encode (-e) and split into multiple parts (-m). This split my image into 9 parts, calles racecar2.1 - racecar2.9. Now, onto mailing. There may be a better way to do this, but here is what I did: foreach i ( racecar2.1 racecar2.2 racecar2.3 racecar2.4 racecar2.5 racecar2.6 racecar2.7 racecar2.8 racecar2.9 ) foreach? mail -s "Celica JPG part $i:e of 9" graham@cc1.unt.edu < $i foreach? end I did a foreach, listed each file (actually, I did a racecar2.?, then expanded it). I mailed it to each person who requested it individually, and included a subject that added the "part 1 of 9" etc. I could have been a bit more efficient by either creating an alias that had all of the folks that wanted a copy of the picture, or by possibly doing a foreach within a foreach (is this possible?) Now, on the receiving end, each file should be saved with a unique file name. Then using uucat and uudecode... uucat racecar2.1 (.....) racecar2.9 | uudecode That's it! Save this somewhere, cause I'd love to have an image of each user and their "ride". BTW, if you don't have a scanner and would like an image, just mail a picture to me and I'll be happy to scan it and send it back. FYI, the larger the original, the better the computer image since we're only dealing with 300 dpi. Chris Myer 1496 Hyacinth ST NE Palm Bay, FL, 32907 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Power antennas To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML), toyota@quack.kfu.com (Toyota ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 07:51:49 -0500 (EST) Does anyone have experience with fixing power antennas? The power antenna on my '90 Supra no longer retracts all the way down, and I'd like to get it fixed. I've heard that I can replace just the mast and not the motor. Is that correct? If so, how difficult is it to replace the mast only on a power antenna? Thanks a bunch in advance. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 09:18:20 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Power antennas Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > Does anyone have experience with fixing power antennas? The power > antenna on my '90 Supra no longer retracts all the way down, and I'd > like to get it fixed. I've heard that I can replace just the mast > and not the motor. Is that correct? If so, how difficult is it > to replace the mast only on a power antenna? Thanks a bunch in > advance. > > Aaron Buhr > abuhr@eng.ufl.edu Is it actually broken, or just binding? If it is binding I have found that cleaning the fully extended antenna with a solvent and then wiping down with a light oil (WD-40 or maybe try graphite) gets its working again. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 09:02:41 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector Fred, Remember this thread? > >The corolla EFI does have 1 injector per cylinder, however, it also has >(as does the 22RE engine in my truck) a single injector in the intake >manifold which, on cold mornings is opened fully when the key is turned to >the start position thereby putting more fuel into the cylinders. (I also have >the pair of shop manuals for my car) My mechanic's off-the-cuff idea is that >by opening this injector at high rpm one could very cheaply increase the >amount of fuel entering the cylinders and thereby richen the mixture (which >should give more power as I do have the cams and exhaust in place to support >this). I am going to try and test this by connecting the injector to the >same control which opens the 4 secondary intake ports in the TVIS at about >4500 rpm. If this works, it would mean simple re-wiring only (cheap or what!) >and maybe the addition of a relay. > (other stuff deleted ..) Well there I was, going home yesterday, on my way to the subway, past the "Worlds Biggest Bookstore" -- That's actually the Store Name!) I glanced at the Nov Magazines, and got a glimpse of a British Car Mag featuring a Turbo charged Ford fiesta that was running 20 pounds of boost and an estimated 200 BHP. Apparently the builder modified the cold start injector on this engine so that it cuts in at about 9 pounds of boost, with a dash mounted switch that allowed the driver to activate the cold injector on cold mornings. Noted by the reviewer was the fact that the car has no after market engine management system, Just the stock Ford ECU . It did have some type of 'chip' though. So it's official, the new PM cancelled the Helicopter Deal! What Now? -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 11:10:59 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Fred, > Remember this thread? > > > > >The corolla EFI does have 1 injector per cylinder, however, it also has > >(as does the 22RE engine in my truck) a single injector in the intake > >manifold which, on cold mornings is opened fully when the key is turned to > >the start position thereby putting more fuel into the cylinders. (I also have > >the pair of shop manuals for my car) My mechanic's off-the-cuff idea is that > >by opening this injector at high rpm one could very cheaply increase the > >amount of fuel entering the cylinders and thereby richen the mixture (which > >should give more power as I do have the cams and exhaust in place to support > >this). I am going to try and test this by connecting the injector to the > >same control which opens the 4 secondary intake ports in the TVIS at about > >4500 rpm. If this works, it would mean simple re-wiring only (cheap or what!) > >and maybe the addition of a relay. > > > (other stuff deleted ..) > > Well there I was, going home yesterday, on my way to the subway, past the > "Worlds Biggest Bookstore" -- That's actually the Store Name!) I glanced at > the Nov Magazines, and got a glimpse of a British Car Mag featuring a Turbo > charged Ford fiesta that was running 20 pounds of boost and an estimated > 200 BHP. > > Apparently the builder modified the cold start injector on this engine so > that it cuts in at about 9 pounds of boost, with a dash mounted switch that > allowed the driver to activate the cold injector on cold mornings. Noted by > the reviewer was the fact that the car has no after market engine > management system, Just the stock Ford ECU . It did have some type of > 'chip' though. > > So it's official, the new PM cancelled the Helicopter Deal! What Now? > > -- > Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, > Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, > Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 Unfortunately, I never got a chance to try this before I parked my car for the winter. In retrospect I decided that what one needs to do is to open the cold-start injector based on the throttle position (ie. foot to the floor). This could easily be accomplished by a microswitch mounted on the throttle position sensor mechanism. Definately a spring project. With respect to helicopters.....we have been told that layoffs are going to happen soon. There may be some jobs for a small number of people on other projects but don't hold your breath. Funny that apparently the US marines are evaluating helicopters (EH-101 leading the pack) for a purchase of 500 (yes, five HUNDRED) which would have translated into about $5 billion in Canadian content requirement had our contract been kept in place (This means $5billion US--->CANADA)! Thank you Mr. Cretien for your wonderful job creation program. I hear there are openings for UI administrators! regards, fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension Date: Fri, 05 Nov 93 10:51:59 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com Since I can't find the microfiche, yet. Dan. ================ >From the TRD catalog: In the Celica description: ... The GT-S version was introduced in 1982 and offered slightly stiffer suspension, larger tires and wheels and wheel-well flares. Mechanically, it was the same as the standard model, with solid rear axle, drum brakes and the carburated 22R engine. In 1983, the GT-S received independent rear suspension (IRS) and in 1984 disc brakes were added to the rear axle as well. Also in 1983, the GT-S received the 22RE fuel injected engine, retained through the 1985 model year. ... RA60 (1982-1985). This includes a mixed bag of IRS and live-axle rear suspensions. The later ('84-85) GT-S is TRD's recommendation for street performance because it has the independent rear, fuel injection and four-wheel disc brakes. The coupe body style is both lighter and more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 14:10:27 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Please tell me how I can do this on my Supra 89 Turbo! I am getting > already 9 PSI and want more...... > > > Ehab. > > I suppose all you would need to do would be one of the following: 1) Get some sort of pressure switch which turns on at 6-7 PSI (you'd need to play with this a bit) and use this to drive the cold-start injector (all this needs is 12 volts across it) 2) Get an appropriate micro-switch and mount it by your throttle position switch (or under the gas pedal somehow/somewhere) such that when you tromp on the gas pedal the cold start injector is opened. There is another option which involves getting higher flow-rate fuel injectors and replacing the stock ones. The EFI computer will use the O2 sensor to roll-back the injectors at idle and cruising speed however when you tromp on it the injectors will be opened according to the map in the EFI computer. Therefore "larger" injectors equals greater fuel flow equals more horsies (I haven't tried this yet though - another spring project - or sooner if I move somewhere warm!) Comments are welcome! Regards, Fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:31:51 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New Member! Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a Targa top. Hal, for the newer Supra's such as yours, HKS is a good source if money is not a problem. HKS has a wonderful ($8.00) catalog that lists about 2 dozen cars and exactly how much hp gain you can expect from each of their products. Fred, our archiver of sorts, will mail you the list of recommended suppliers, which includes HKS. Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:39:16 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector Just a thought...you guys be careful about doing this. Sounds like a neat idea, but I am guessing that it isn't as simple as sticking an injector into your intake manifold. If anyone is really going to try this, you would probably want to buy a lean/rich indicator like those sold by Moroso (I think...) Then, to work optimally, you'd probably need a small circuit to custom dial the extra fuel based on the rpm. Great idea, but more fuel by itself is not great. As a matter of fact, you want the least fuel in the mixture without the mixture becoming overly lean. Excess fuel just turns into liquid, which not only doesn't burn, it takes up room that could be occupied by more oxygen. Any other thoughts? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:55:47 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: List administration Well, it looks like Fred has prepared for the worst, and has shipped me all of the lists (car/book/supplier), the new user welcome, and the archive of all messages sent to date. He said that they expect about half of the employees at his site to be laid off. Bummer. Hope some of you took the opportunity to contact Fred and get his resume. He himself is not sure how long he'll be able to stay on the 'net. Anyhow, I was hoping that someone else might pick up the task of maintaining the lists and such, just as Fred was doing after he sent the list itself to me. I think that it would be easier on everyone if we would share these responsibilities amoung ourselves. I know that I can't carry the ball on all of them. If you are interested in helping, let me know. Maintaining just one list, such as that of suppliers, shouldn't be much of a problem. Just add any info when it comes across the 'net and send me an updated copy. Thanks in advance for those who are able to assist ! :-) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: New Member! To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 16:08:27 -0500 (EST) > Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is > interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a > Targa top. ... > Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some > info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? I'll summarize what I've learned. Keep in mind that I've actually tried none of the below, so I don't know the relative worth of each modification. But these are the inexpensive modifications I plan to make at one time or another: Polyurethane suspension bushings, ~$50 (?). Firms up the ride. K&N Filtercharger or HKS air intake system, ~$40. Increases intake air flow. HKS or Trust exhaust pipes & muffler, ~$440. Decreases exhaust backpressure. SuperChip (any others?) replacement engine control PROM, $350 (I think the non-turbo version is less). For my turbo I'll likely add a variable boost control such as HKS's, but this doesn't apply for non-turbos. If you want more info about any of the above, either mail me or ask on the list. Also, I think everyone recommends that you get the HKS ($8) and TRD ($5?) catalogs since they purportedly describe the various modifications in detail. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:10:45 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: List administration > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > > If you are interested in helping, let me know. Maintaining just one > list, such as that of suppliers, shouldn't be much of a problem. Just > add any info when it comes across the 'net and send me an updated copy. > I am willing to take over the list of suppliers. Send me the information. And, next year, I should be able to give more assistance as soon as I get more disk space. > Thanks in advance for those who are able to assist ! :-) > No problem. This is the list I can do! -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 16:12:55 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the GT-S info, Dan. > RA60 (1982-1985). This includes a mixed bag of IRS and live-axle rear > suspensions. The later ('84-85) GT-S is TRD's recommendation for > street performance because it has the independent rear, fuel injection > and four-wheel disc brakes. The coupe body style is both lighter and > more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner > and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require > greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, I can't resist agreeing with that assessment. It took me a couple of expensive lessions to find that out myself. All in all I think the Celica GT-S is a pretty well balanced car, but if you get too gung- ho (which I did in my younger days) you can easily get yourself in trouble with the trailing-throttle oversteer. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:00:46 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Please tell me how I can do this on my Supra 89 Turbo! I am getting >already 9 PSI and want more...... > > Utilising the additional injector will not increase your boost. To increase boost you play around with mechnical stuff, such as the mod Allen mentioned, or play around with the point at which the waste gate opens,( HKS electronic valve controller etc). The benefit of an additional injector is that it will pump additional fuel into the cyclinder at high boost, to stop the engine from running lean. i.e more air than fuel. For *ANY* engine to perform well, (turbo or naturally aspirated), you need to keep the air fuel ratio at a nominal value. something like 14/1 (If I recall right). Dumping more fuel into the cyclinders than the engine can burn will only help to foul the plugs, and produce black smoke. According to the HKS catalog, (which I happen to have at work with Today) The breakdown for HKS power for the Turbo 87-92 Supras are as follows: Stock 230 HP @ 5 PSI Stage 1 251 HP @ 8 PSI Turbo Exhaust System Stage 2 256 HP @ 8.5 PSI Power Flow Air filter Stage 3 282 HP @ 11 PSI Electronic Valve controller Stage 4 295 HP @ 11.5 PSI Intercooler kit Stage 5 327 HP @ 13.5 PSI PFC F-CON (Programmable fuel computer) Stage 6 342 HP @ 13.5 PSI Vein pressure converter, VPC Power flow Adaptor Stage 7 435 HP @ 15 PSI Sport Turbo upgrade, Injector & PROM Upgrade Stage 8 450 HP @ 15 PSI Cams & Adjustable Cam Pulleys. Comments: *Electronic Valve controller: Interprets the signal sent to the wastegate actuator on the turbo and can therefore manipulate it, i.e open it later, etc.. *Intercooler kit, not a bad idea on any Turbo charged car. *PFC F-Con, plug in fuel computer to supplement the OEM ECU *Vein pressure converter replaces OEM air metering devices. *Sports turbo -- I believe HKS uses the Garrett T4. Easily handles 25 PSI. *Cams, I think the main goal is lift as opposed to duration. Judging from the stages, The stock Supra engine management system should be able to compensate for 11 PSI. i.e There would be no need to use the additional injector. The mechanical aspect of keeping the boost at 11 PSI however has to come from some aftermarket device. HKS does make something called an Additional Injector controller. According to the catalog, The AIC can can be controlled by boost pressure or by RPM. (Fred, sounds like what you need) I have seen one of these devices on a Turbo RX-7, and it is a fairly small device. Apparently its not CARB certified though :-) "There's Fast, There's Bloody Fast, and then there is the kind of fast that makes your friends scream for Mercy" Car & Car Conversions on describing a turbo cosworth 4 cyclinder kit car with the boost turned up to produce 310 BHP. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:25:55 EST To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Re: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension > > more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner > > and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require > > greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Yeah, I can't resist agreeing with that assessment. It took me a > couple of expensive lessions to find that out myself. This seems to indicate that you had yet to learn the "never lift in the corner" axiom - if you feel that you have to lift, you went in too fast. In any case, such a condition is best encountered on a racetrack, so that there's a bit of runoff, since if you don't lift, you'll go off a bit, and then drive back on, whereas if you lift, you snap-spin and probably wind up kissing the wall... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 14:37:46 -0800 From: Brian Goble To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Upgrading Non-Turbo Supra I have an '88 Supra Turbo and I recently installed the HKS Turbo Exhaust. For your non-turbo, I would really recommend the HKS Street Exhaust. With my new exhaust, I get much better low-end response...the engine revs up (and moves the car) much faster now. All this low-end stuff doesn't even use the turbo so I would think you could see similar results. I actually haven't had too much of a chance to play with the top-end power. I also just go my K&N FilterCharger Air Filter replacement in the mail yesterday (from TRD...last one they had in stock). I would consider this mod too...it's only $50. Someone mentioned the SuperChip but I don't think they make one for the non-turbo (or do they?) The HKS stuff has a bunch of electronic stuff (that is expensive) that might help you too. I would start with air-intake and exhaust first. You might even consider an open-air-box replacement like the HKS PowerFlow. Also, consider joing the supra mailing list (mail to supras-request@vicor.com) ...you could also add a turbo! :) Hope this info helps... -Brian ==)------------ Brian Goble | goble@hardy.u.washington.edu "Finishing a close second means you didn't win." ------------(== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 09:10:40 -0500 To: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector >I suppose all you would need to do would be one of the following: > >1) Get some sort of pressure switch which turns on at 6-7 PSI > (you'd need to play with this a bit) and use this to drive > the cold-start injector (all this needs is 12 volts across > it) > >2) Get an appropriate micro-switch and mount it by your throttle > position switch (or under the gas pedal somehow/somewhere) > such that when you tromp on the gas pedal the cold start > injector is opened. > (stuff deleted)... Fred, They are several companies advertising in Turbo magazine, a device for controlling up to six additional injectors, one of these devices was $289 US, and most can be controlled by RPM. On reflection though, I think you would want to be able to control the device according to the air fuel ratio, as dumping more fuel than the engine can burn won't increase performance.. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Re: New Member! To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:20:11 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is > interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a > Targa top. > > Hal, for the newer Supra's such as yours, HKS is a good source if money > is not a problem. HKS has a wonderful ($8.00) catalog that lists about > 2 dozen cars and exactly how much hp gain you can expect from each of > their products. Fred, our archiver of sorts, will mail you the list of > recommended suppliers, which includes HKS. > > Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some > info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? > > Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com > ================================================================ > = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = > = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = > = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = > = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = > = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = > =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = > ================================================================ > I think Brian and Aeron have answered the question. I can tell you that TRUST claims that if you use their Turbo upgrade, you get up to 500 hp!!! The Supra motor has a lot of power to be had in it. My personal goal is to get to 400 hp w/o any reliability problems(notice I said reliability not longivity!) I have installed the Trust exh and intake filter, Superchip(more on that later) and used the Thermo Tec stuff. That stuff really works! Under the hood temp has gone down noticably and my turbo responds at 2500 rpm not 2800 as it used to. This is w/o the boost increase or the Superchip!. This is w/o the boost increase or the Superchip!. I am also interested in water injection and a fan to cool the intercooler. Some of the above mods apply to the non turbo model too! Sway bars would be a $300 option and will make the car handle instantly better... I have the ST ones and they work great. Hope this helps! Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 13:57:06 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Load compensating rear brakes on trucks Does anyone out there have any experience with adjusting the load compensating mechanism for the rear brakes on a truck (I think both 2wd and 4wd have them)? This summer I had an extra leaf spring added to the rear springs of my truck (very happy with this). Now that the snow is here I have noticed that the rear brakes hardly pull at all (no rear ABS kick-in even on ice). This seems likely as the rear end is now higher even with the truck cap and extra weight. I want to adjust the proportioning thing so there is more rear brake power applied. There seems to be a bolt mechanism where the adjusting rod is connected to the rear axle. Will adjusting this adjust the bias? If so, will raising the adjusting rod increase the rear brakes as I suspect? Any info is appreciated! Thanks, Fredo. P.S. WRT my employment status (for anyone who cares)....I will probably find out which 50% of the plant I will be in on Monday.....nothing like an ulcer! (whine mode off!) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 15:04:01 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Factory service tools Anyone bought factory service tools for their toyota from Toyota Service Tools 800-533-5338 Jon Hacker Bellcore, Red Bank NJ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 14:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Toyota Service Tools The last thing I purchased was a door hinge bolt box wrench, some carb tools, and a bearing removal set for my Celica. This had to be more than 3 years ago, so I don't have the specifics on hand at the moment. As I recall, the tools are manufactured by a tool company out East (I'm in CA). I'll post more details tomorrow if nobody beats me to it (stuffs at home). It may have not been Snap-On quality stuff, but so far everythings held up well. No complaints. Clark '78 Celica GT '89 944s2 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:21:45 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Recruiting... Fred suggested that I write a note to a few different mailing lists to invite others to join the Toyota Mods list. I actually started to do this, but then stopped because of a concern I have held for a while. I am afraid that if we "over-advertise" this list, it will become filled with members who actually know very little about modifications, and will become a forum for questions better left on the regular Toyota mailing list. However, this isn't to say that we don't want our list to grow. To the contrary, the more knowledgeable folks we have, the better the list will be for it. Instead of just passing out an open invitation to join, let me suggest this...As you meet people on the other mailing lists, such as: autox@autox.team.net (the autocross list) MR2-Interest@validgh.com (the MR2 list) supras@vicor.com (the supras list) toyota@quack.sac.ca.us (the generic toyota list) or throught usenet, and if your mail with them indicates that they would possibly be an asset to our list, recommend it to them. I myself was invited to the list in this manner (by Errol, if I remember correctly), and have since invited several others who are now key contributors. As our knowledge base grows, it will allow some of the main blabber-mouths (me!) to take a back seat and let some of the others share. Whenever I think of what a wealth of knowledge that already exists on this list, I remind myself that there _may_ be one or two others out there who know just a little bit more. :-) (Call me greedy!) And by keeping some of the "casual" Toyota drivers in the regular Toyota list, it will help keep the bandwidth to a manageable level. Hope this is OK with you Fred. Good call to try to do some expansion, at any rate. Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Supra Q's To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 11:31:57 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com I have two questions for you guys: 1. What happens if I disconnect the O2 sensor on my 89 Supra Turbo? 2. Has any one tried the tri tipped spark plug? Thx in advance, Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:34:50 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Springs Does anybody know of a good supplier for suspension springs? I want to change the spring rates on the race car, but am looking for someone who has more experience in that area, and can give me an idea of what rates to choose. I am planning on calling Carrera in Atlanta, and RJ at TRD told me about a company called Spring Techniques (or something like that), but I have been unable to find anything by that name yet. Any help would be appreciated. BTW, I'm back to the race track Friday night, first time in about 8 weeks. Car seems to be ready, but we'll see. The front seems real soft, which is why I want to check on new springs. I went to the track 2 Friday's ago and watched 28 cars race in my class on the 1/3 mile track. Needless to say, there was a preponderance of yellow flags as the pulled cars out of the wall and off of their roofs. Got pretty ugly. Fortunately, I heard there were only 20 cars last week (a lot, but more reasonable.) I hear they are going to do a 100 lap race in our class for $2000. I kinda doubt that I will even try that one, since it is sure to turn into a demolition derby of _major_ preportions, and since they are almost sure to do a tech inspection with that much money involved. I kinna doubt I'd pass any tech inspection with my Webber synchronous 38mm carb! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:00:20 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: Springs > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > Does anybody know of a good supplier for suspension springs? I want to > change the spring rates on the race car, but am looking for someone who > has more experience in that area, and can give me an idea of what rates > to choose. I am planning on calling Carrera in Atlanta, and RJ at TRD > told me about a company called Spring Techniques (or something like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He probably meant Suspension Techniques - I think that I have the number at home. I'll try to send it to you tomorrow. -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 16:22:32 HST From: kamallen@pulua.hcc.Hawaii.Edu (Allen T "Koji" Kam) To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Springs Chris... This is a company i never tried but i have looked at but have never tried and their catalogue that they have sent me was kinna incomplete so i didnt see any toyota things. But they do allow for custom springs. Suspension Spring Specialists P.o Box 145 Bremen In 46506 Usa & Canada 1-800-323-7419 fax 219-546-4725 They allow Visa and MC They advertise their "Blue Coil" springs If not Suspension Techniques does have springs also for your Silly-car Best Wishes... you can always bribe me and make me sell mines.... heh... -Allen T "Koji" Kam (I hate typing this whole thing blind since i'm lagging badly...please excuse the mistakes and all this jazz....) *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 04:25:41 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Springing Back ! (Try III) >> Chris... >> This is a company i never tried but i have looked at but have never >> tired and their catalogue (stuff deleted...) >Thanks. I'll give them a call today. Dammm..you guys all eberry where for all ya things...sheesh !!! >> If not Suspension Techniques does have springs also for your Silly-car >> Best Wishes... >That's who RJ recommended, along with Carrera. Do you have a PH# for >Suspension Techniques? I don't have a current number for them sorry. I have Carrea's offhand They make shocks and springs and are pretty cheap. They "wrote the book on coil overs" hahah thats a quote. Carrera sends you a BIG booklet of nice things to order and buy =) I recommend. Good Spring and weight ratios... Carrera Racing Shocks 5412 New Peachtree Road Atlanta, GA 30341 Tech Services: (404) 451-8811 Orders (800) RACE-4-IT Fax: (404) 451-8086 For suspension Techniques i have an old 1-800 number but check (*yuck*) Road And Track or such. They have them in there regularly or someone else must have it... >> you can always bribe me and make me sell mines.... >> heh... >Actually, the main reason I'm going through these guys instead of just >getting some from TRD or locally is that Circle-Track cars require some >funky spring rates--usually a different rate on each corner. I wanna >pick these guys brains and see if they know what I should be doing as >far as rates and heights. Very illegal in my class, but hey, ya gada do >what ya gada do. In my class, if you aren't way in the lead, you are >gonna get jammed into the wall or flipped onto your roof. Kinda the >Road Warrior approach to racing. Exactly like Autocross, except with >walls and other cars blindsiding you. ;-) Heh heh...Dang...I don't wanna risk my baybee on that...good luck..you know whats best it seems. I do how ever might have a deal on 1977 Celica Springs for you soon or someone else on net. Post more about this later. >Good to hear from you. Let me know about the S.T. number and I'll let >you know how I do Friday night... Anyone know the number ? =) >Chris Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 04:27:08 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Gearing (*Try III*) I'm in a bit of a turmoil. This is my situation. I'm running a "basically stock" 3TC Motor with a 2TC high compression head. 5 Speed 10 bolt Celica Rear end in my 1980 Corolla Sports Coupe. My dilema is that i'm currently Running 5:13 Final end gearing. I love the gearing and feel nothing wrong with it. I love the acceleration factor and don't like top speeds over 120mph to much. I love the Torque and such. My gas mileage is about 200 Miles on a full tank of Gas (10 gallon fuel cell) I have a choice of running a 4.66 TRD Posi Unit or a 4.3 TRD Gearing. I even have an option of picking up a 4.88 unit. I would'nt mind the 4.88 but thats gonna cost me some $400 to buy it. The other gearing i am getting free. My motor is built to rev up to 10k RPM and maintain that for a duration of 20 minutes (speed and road tested) Its not something i would love to do again but i can do it if needed. I run about 4k rpm doing 60 mph in 5th Gear. how much power will i lose by going a step down ? Anyone ? I'm not running a "Posi" / Locker unit now due to Wet Weather conditons down here this time of year. Please feel free to comment. I'm VERY willing to listen to all comments about this and my problem. (also what ever i don't use i'll loan to Chris to use in his "race" car or sell to anyone with a 10 bolt celica rear end as long as they don't resell it to anyone else or with the car when its gone) -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 09:30:04 EST I recently sent TRD a request for a catalog. They responded saying that they were still redesigning their catalogs and were hoping to be done by the middle of this month (Nov.). They indicated they'd be happy to send me a free catalog(s) if I told them which chassis types I'm interested in. However I don't know what the chassis designations for any Toyota vehicles are. I'd greatly appreciate it if y'all could fill me in on what vehicles the following chassis types refer to: AE82, AE86, AE92, AW11, EL31, EL44, AE101, MA60, MA70, RA, ST160-5, ST185, SW20, TE Thanks in advance. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 05:15:09 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Name this Chassis Aaron... > I recently sent TRD a request for a catalog. They responded saying >that they were still redesigning their catalogs and were hoping to be >done by the middle of this month (Nov.). They indicated they'd be happy >to send me a free catalog(s) if I told them which chassis types I'm >interested in. However I don't know what the chassis designations for >any Toyota vehicles are. I'd greatly appreciate it if y'all could fill >me in on what vehicles the following chassis types refer to: >AE82, AE86, AE92, AW11, EL31, EL44, AE101, MA60, MA70, RA, ST160-5, >ST185, SW20, TE Don't Quote me on this cause its early and i'm out of this. AE is a Corolla Designation. For newer Corollas from 1985 and Up. AE 82 could be a Corolla SR-5 AE-86 is a Corolla GTS (For sure) till 1987 old body style AE-92 is the newer GTS Front Wheel Drive AE-101 is the New 2 Door Corolla GTS (not avail us i think) AE-102 is the GTZ Corolla AW-11 is a Mister 2 MR-2 All Years ( or older from 85-88 at least) MA is a Supra designation MA-60 is A Supra with a 5MG i think from 1982 and up MA-70 1986 1/2 Supra and up MA-71 is the Turbo Supra designation (i think....) RA i belive (not sure) is a Celica (see-li-ca i call them silly cars) ST is also for the newer 1987 and up Celica models. RA-20 is from 1970 - 1977 Celica RA-40 (or maybe 50 not sure) Is the newer bodystyle from 1978 up (like Chris's car) RA-60 is the 1982-1985 Celica including GTS / Celica Supra looking models ST-160-5 Celicas first bubble shaped with SF series motors ST-185 I belive this is "90's" Celicas... SW I think this is the newer i.e Turbo MR-2 models ??? anyone ?? I think so When they switced to the Celica Based Turbo Motors.. TE Any older year corolla from 1970 till 1983 TE-20-30 (or so) Any Early year corolla from 1970 - 1974 Sports Coupe and S-5 coupes and SR-5 coupes. Inclues 2tc motors and 3k motors TE-30 -something till 50-something Corollas Sedans 4 door 2 door SR-5's etc etc Sports Coupes etc. From 1975 till 1979 TE-72 My car.. 1980 - 1884 with 3tc/4ac later years 70-something means corollas from 1980 till 1984 > Thanks in advance. Don't quote me on this..i don't have a book infront of me. >Aaron Buhr >abuhr@eng.ufl.edu -Allen T "Koji" Kam P.S. I'm sure if you tell them what kinna car ya got..they would send the right book to you =) all ya have to do is ask for RJ.. or even Kimmie..i think she still works at TRD she just got a new Twin turbo Supra..I seen the New TRD Catalogue in a Japan magazine just the cover. =) *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 05:30:55 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Serious Gearing (Clearer Statement) Background of Whole.... The Car: 1980 Corolla SR-5 1980 3TC with 2TC High Comp Head 1974 Celica 10 Bolt Rear end with TRD 5:13 Gears (no posi or locker) 1985 GTS T-50 Transmission with TRD Gearset (I think this is it) 1st Gear 2.630 2nd Gear 1.607 3rd Gear 1.384 4th Gear 1.000 5th Gear .860 13 x 7 Advan Racing Rims A3A -optional- 13 x 7 SSR 215/50 Front 235/50 Rear 205/60 Front and Rear Driving: I run about 60 mph in 5th Gear @ 4000 rpm I hardly exceed 120 mph I'm all 0-60 maybe 80 or 100. Tires arent speed rated above 120mph But i have exceeded this running 10,000 RPM + for a duration. I also get about 200 mpg on a 10gal fuel tank. What I think about big gearing: Bigger gearing just gets you to your speed faster. Thats all. What I wanna change: Rear end Gear Ratio From 5:13 to 4.88 Posi or 4.66 Posi Why I wanna change: My first gear is almost useless. I can "chirp" or spin tires on all 5 gears with no problems. I love my gearing but wonder if i should change since 1st gear is a bit much but so i start off in second, but if i change will i lose my launching advantage. What I wanna know: What drastic changes will i have in my car ? How my power will i lose by the change ? How will my acelleration suffer by these changes ? Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? Please make any comments and such. I'm VERY open to them. I hope this is most clearer then my last post. Thanks for putting up with my bubbling. I accept all comments and flames and welcome them. Please help me solve my Dilema. This is my daily driver car to school and back over a mountain. I love my car and its power band now. Just wondering if I change gearing yet again will I gain or lose any ? Thanks again... -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 11:19:48 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: A Matter of Serious Gearing (Clearer Statement) > >Background of Whole.... > > >The Car: 1980 Corolla SR-5 > 1980 3TC with 2TC High Comp Head > 1974 Celica 10 Bolt Rear end with TRD 5:13 Gears (no posi or locker) > 1985 GTS T-50 Transmission with TRD Gearset (I think this is it) > 1st Gear 2.630 > 2nd Gear 1.607 > 3rd Gear 1.384 > 4th Gear 1.000 > 5th Gear .860 > 13 x 7 Advan Racing Rims A3A -optional- 13 x 7 SSR > 215/50 Front 235/50 Rear 205/60 Front and Rear > >Driving: I run about 60 mph in 5th Gear @ 4000 rpm I hardly exceed 120 mph > I'm all 0-60 maybe 80 or 100. Tires arent speed rated above 120mph > But i have exceeded this running 10,000 RPM + for a duration. > I also get about 200 mpg on a 10gal fuel tank. > >What I think about big gearing: Bigger gearing just gets you to your speed > faster. Thats all. > >What I wanna change: Rear end Gear Ratio From 5:13 to 4.88 Posi or 4.66 Posi > >Why I wanna change: My first gear is almost useless. I can "chirp" or spin > tires on all 5 gears with no problems. I love my gearing > but wonder if i should change since 1st gear is a bit much > but so i start off in second, but if i change will i lose > my launching advantage. > >What I wanna know: What drastic changes will i have in my car ? > How my power will i lose by the change ? > How will my acelleration suffer by these changes ? > Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? > (...other stuff deleted) Allen, I am using a 4.1 diff on my starlet, at 100 KPH (62 MPH -- Speed limit in Ontario), I am reving between 3800 - 4000 RPM. Which is just about fine, since my cams are rated by TRD as providing power between 3500 - 7500 + RPM. At 100 KPH, I can stamp on the gas without shifting down, and the car will pull great as it revs to the end of its power band.... You say that you are reving to 10K, but is the engine actually developing power at this level? For a 10K RPM engine, you need cams with at least 320 degrees of duration with equally agressive lift, (is this the case?) A rear end ratio over 5.0, is suited to such an engine, as it will quickly allow the car to get into its high RPM band. (You will have little power below 3000 RPM) I can't remember what the ratios are for the TRD close ratio gear sets (VS stock), but TRD states that a rear end ratio over 5 needs the TRD gear set, otherwise the car will run out the 1st gear in 6 ft! I think that if you are starting in second and spinning rubber, that stepping down to a 4.88 will not affect your launching advantage, you might actually be better off, as you will be able to travel further in each gear (all other things being equal). -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 12:51:21 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Gear Ratios Cc: aultman@jezebel.ms.sandia.gov I realize that most of you probably didn't quite get the gist of Koji's last post, so I "talk"ed to him and got a few more details. His question is a good one, so I thought I'd run through it for every one. How do you select gear ratios? This is something I am familiar with because it is _critical_ to circle track racers. Basically, the job of selecting a gear for a circle track race is one of determining what max speed (mph) you can handle the corner at (i.e., your lowest speed on the track), and then looking at your power curve to determine what speed (rpm) your engine begins its peak power and torque. Winning at circle track racing means matching the low mph to the low end of your power band. Now, few low-buck racers have done the time necessary on a dyno to figure out what their torque/hp curves look like. So I just guesstimate what kind of engine speed my power starts to get really strong at. (BTW, someone ought to send in a discussion of the meanings/virtues of HP vs Torque. I'm not strong in this area...) In order to do the basic math, you must know: Transmission Ratios in each gear... 1st- 2nd- 3rd- 4th- 5th- Rear-end ratio: Tire size: Now, If I had this info for my car, I'd do an example, but I don't have it here at work. But basically If I can go around the corner at 45 mph MAX, and if I figure my best bottom RPM is aroun 3500 RPM, I want to figure out what combo of tranny gear, rear end size, and tire size will give me 3500 RPM @ 45 MPH. First figure out your tire circumference. I posted a program a while back that will do this for you, but you can do it with a calculator. A 185/60 R14 size tells us that our side wall is 60% of 185 mm (25.4mm = 1 inch), and the wheel is 14 inches tall. 14 plus 2 x ((185x.6) / 25.4) = 22.75 (approx) inches. (check my math...) That's your diameter. Your circumference is 22.75 x 2 x pi = 143 (approx) inches. That means, for each time your tire goes around, you will travel 143 inches. Now I want to go 45 mph = 45 x 5280 x 12 = 2851200 in/hr = 47520 in/min. 47520/143 = 332, the number of times I want my tire to revolve in one minute. Obviously, 332 is not a good speed for my engine, but I determined that 3500 was. 3500/332 = approx 10.5. This is your final drive ratio, equal to your rear end ratio times your tranny ratio in any given gear. [And for some reason, this doesn't look right to me...I expected a number closer to 7.5. I'll have to check my numbers at home. You get the idea though.] You lo As I said in the outset, match your low rpm to your low speed and you're gonna be a (potential) winner. Now, change anything...springs, shocks, engine, spark plugs, weather, etc...anything that can change your low rpm or your low speed, and you must go through all of this again. That is why the for "quick-change" 9 inch rear end is so popular in circle track racing. How does this apply to you autocross/road race guys? It's certainly not as easy, but you still want to figure out what speed you'll be running on the track, and try to match that to what speeds you engine runs best at. This is why a close ratio tranny is so beautiful for you guys...it gives you a finer adjustment of your ratio, at the expense of having a broader range. Hope somebody finds this interesting... Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:21:32 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Gear Ratios > How does this apply to you autocross/road race guys? It's certainly not > as easy, but you still want to figure out what speed you'll be running > on the track, and try to match that to what speeds you engine runs best > at. This is why a close ratio tranny is so beautiful for you guys...it > gives you a finer adjustment of your ratio, at the expense of having a > broader range. > > Hope somebody finds this interesting... > > Chris > I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Jon Hacker Bellcore, Redbank NJ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:32:46 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Gear Ratios Jon Writes... > I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so > that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of > the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my > Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Not a bad rule of thumb, but you gotta remember that with race cars, red line is kinda hard to define. Like Koji says, he can run his Corolla at 10K for 20 min or better. (Kids, don't try that with the folks Yugo!) I think Pat Braden says something to the same effect though in the TPHandbook. Really, the _right_ way to do it is to get a complete dyno test run and then overlay the torque and HP vs RPM curves. Each car/engine will require something a little different. Kinda expensive, but if you are into racing it is the way to go. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:49:40 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: me/mine/mods...New Member! Allow me to introduct to the list Ray Bahr, MR2 racer/suspension guru. ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From bahrr@pictel.com Fri Nov 12 13:42:12 1993 Hi: I would like to join this group. I live in New England so I have access to a number of race tracks as well as nice roads. I own a 1991 MR2 Turbo with a HKS muffler, and I have done a +1 with rims ( Fitti Indy's with 225/50, 205/50-15) I have built up a 1986 MR2 with a lot of suspension stuff an a little engine stuff. ( I like to do track events). Thanks Ray Bahr ----- End Included Message ----- Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have you! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:58:34 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Hi Okay, if its any consolation, I'm panting trying to keep up with all of this mail today. Sorry I didn't send these two new members out together....:-( Anyhow, welcome to the list Ralph Brown from Massachusetts. Welcome aboard, Ralph, we have several members with extensive knowledge on these cars. Chris ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From rbrown@BBN.COM Fri Nov 12 13:09:30 1993 I'm Ralph Brown, I live in Haverhill, MA, I have an 89 MR2 Supercharged which so far I've just put Dunlop 195 D60's on. I like the car a lot and am thinking about just doing some mods on it and keeping it another 60K miles rather than trading it. My driving is in the spirited street class, I don't have time to autocross anymore. I'm much more interested in handling than raw acceleration, althought a bit more power wouldn't be unpleasant. Ralph ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 14:00:46 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: me/mine/mods...New Member! > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a > few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older > 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have ^^^^^^^^ If I read this correctly, I think that this is a mistake... The MR2 mkI came with a 4AGE engine as opposed to the 3T. Just my $0.02... -Errol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 09:27:02 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Toy-mods list Ya gotta love this guy. After reading at least a dozen messages in a row from him, I get this... ----- Begin Included Message ----- errr it occured to me... errrr.. does anyone on this list like have to pay for their mail feed ? if so... maybe you could bunch up all the mail in one day and send it to them that would ? would that be easier for them ? so they don't have to pay for all these nonsense posts ? just wondering orsoemthign i thought about -allen ----- End Included Message ----- Phenomenal mechanic, great driver, and sensitive too! Truth is, I don't know the answer to this one, so let me know if the volume/frequency of mail is a problem. For you newer members, Koji (Allen) is part of a new age experiment to combine a "stream of consciousness" writing style with technical subject matter. BTW, all of the stuff he writes will make sense if you a.) read it 15 times or b.) use a blotter of LSD before reading it. Either way, he knows more about the stuff we are interested in that about anyone I know, so it's worth the effort. Now, if I could just convice Koji to post at some time _other_ than between midnight and 5 am, and not to try to write as fast as he drives.....nah, then it wouldn't be Koji! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 05:46:34 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Comments from God of Toyota Mods >Could you tell us (ie, the list) or at least me...what type of car you >have been talking about (ie, your car). I've forgotten what it is...thanx! No problems Brian. My car is a 1980 Corolla SR-5 Sports Coupe. Its "basically" "stock" please..don't hold me to that quote. I've done a lot of alterations to my car. You proably name something to deal with a early year old techonology car or Toyota, its probly been done with my car. I'm no expert on all of it, but what i've done. I've done a lot. My two current Dilema's are: 1) Final Drive Gear Selection. Rear end gearing. I have currently 5:13 gears and debating if I go down .13 to 4.66 or even to 4.88 how much time and power will I lose by changing my power band. My thoughts aren't well put because i'm baffled at this and seeking help. 2) My reoccuring exhaust manifold gasket blowing and bolts breaking off in the head. I belive this is due to my compression and partly gearing. Too much combustion results in blowing of the gasket and breaking off bolts when downshifting and the motor backfiring or such. >-Brian > ==)------------ > Brian Goble | goble@hardy.u.washington.edu > "Finishing a close second means you didn't win." > ------------(== BTW I hope you were posting to me (*gack*) and I LOVE your Quote... - Aloha mon... -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:35:17 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Technology on a Fast Track >> From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) >> >> Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a >> few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older >> 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have ^^^^^^^^ > If I read this correctly, I think that this is a mistake... The > MR2 mkI came with a 4AGE engine as opposed to the 3T. Just my > $0.02... I think what he meant is us peeples stuck in the dark ages whom hasnt gone with Techonology and still in the dark ages of 8 valve motors ! > -Errol Techonology on a Fast Track ! Go Toyota ! -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:33:13 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Welcome MR-2 User ! >Okay, if its any consolation, I'm panting trying to keep up with all of >this mail today. Sorry I didn't send these two new members out >together....:-( Awww Chris...like you work for a living ? ;) >Anyhow, welcome to the list Ralph Brown from Massachusetts. Welcome >aboard, Ralph, we have several members with extensive knowledge on these >cars. I guess That i'm not one so don't listen to me and tell me to be quiet ! ;) >Chris (*grovel to the Toyota-mods god*) >----- Begin Included Message ----- >From rbrown@BBN.COM Fri Nov 12 13:09:30 1993 >I'm Ralph Brown, I live in Haverhill, MA, I have an 89 MR2 Supercharged >which so far I've just put Dunlop 195 D60's on. I like the car a lot and >am thinking about just doing some mods on it and keeping it another 60K >miles rather than trading it. Do you still have the stock Aluminum rims for this car ? The D60 tires are a serious investment to your car. Do you have any idea what you want out of your car ? I've worked with 2 Supercharged motors before. One of them has the HKS Pulley. Its only a 10 Degree bigger wheel then stock, because their reasoning was that they would have made it bigger if they wanted to but wanted to keep a "Stock" appearance thus a "sleeper car" But you can have one made at your local machine shop to what ever size you wish ! =) The second thing i beive was the Blow off valve for this car we put on. This helped somewhat. My friend is debating what the next step is as my other friend with a 1987 MR-2 Automatic is within 2 seconds of his superchaged MR-2 and feels threatened. The Short Throw Shifter is another mod ive worked with. Its Simple on the MR-2 VERY Simple. >My driving is in the spirited street class, I don't have time to >autocross >anymore. I'm much more interested in handling than raw acceleration, >althought a bit more power wouldn't be unpleasant. Anti-Sway Bars ! Shocks ! Get the Strut tower bars for your car ! Even though they have you can strengthen then a bit and get more performance. Also the Plyurathne bushing help a bit also. >Ralph >----- End Included Message ----- Hope you learn something Ralph ! I know i sure did ! =) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:44:14 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Running in the RED ! (Not RPM) Reply >> I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway >> driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! >> ( very hot). >This is certainly getting too hot. don't let them snow you - you >have a real problem. Note that the manifold cracked - that's almost >certainly from the excessive thermal strain. It sounds like a combustion >problem to me, as if perhaps the timing is too retarded and the exhaust >valves open before the charge is burned, so it goes on burning on its >way down the exhaust manifold. Or something like that... Damm....thats good John..i didnt consider that. Hmm...Food for Thought... Welps...Ingorance is bliss sometimes =) >John R. Lupien - Allen T "Koji" Kam whom is learning sumthing new eberry day ! *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:56:46 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Turbo MR-2 Problems... Errr Correct me if i'm wrong, or maybe Chris could answer this. I think someone else had this cooling problem before ? Or something similar ? I've been considering a Turbo MR-2 myself. Any real problems with the car ? -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:41:39 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Turbo MR-2 Running in the RED ! (Not RPM !) >Hi: > I do a lot of work on cars as a hobby, and I have a problem which >has me stumped! >I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway >driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! >( very hot). I have replaced the catalitic converter, the o2 sensor, the >EGR valve, and the exhaust mainfold - the old one cracked. I am in the >process of checking the valve timing - by inspection. The compression is >good around 170 psi in all cylinders, the vacumm is good - steady and where >it should be. Toyota hotline is completly useless. They try to convince me >that this is not bad!! The manifold gets hot enough to cause the oil filter >to singe. If anyone knows what the exhaust gas temp should be, or what this problem could be I desperatly need to know. BTW the gas milage is fairly normal.Also it has to be night to see the manifold glowing - but I still think that it is to hot. Errr....Ray..by any chance do you notice your Aux Fan kicking on ? Did you change the Theromstat ? Maybe its your Thermal Fan switch. Its supposed to kick on your Aux fan at a certain tempature. Maybe this is your problem. Or your aux fan isnt working at all...(*shrug*) this could be the problem. >Thanks in advance! >Ray Bahr Sure....I hope this is a solution... (*Did i do good Daddy Chris ? =) *) - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:55:20 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Gearing (*with stats !*) Derek Wrote.... >I made up a program a few years back to analyze some of what you're going >thru when I had the same problems with my car - It shows you the RPMS and >speeds you can expect with various tire, rearend, and transmission gearing. >I put your data into it, and these are the results: Sheesh...I do like asking for help but dang..this is intense. Thanks Derek for the Free Dyno approx. This is VERY close to what i have. Techonology does wonders.... >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >for 5.13 gears: > (*lots of mind boggling stats deleted*) >where the 'ratio' column is the tranny ratio, 'total' column is tranny >gear times rear end ratio. The top chart has RPM's across the top, >and the corresponding speed in the gears for that RPM under it. The >lower chart is the opposite, showing speed across the top, and the RPM's >for each speed in the gears under it. Errrr I belive these stats are a bit off. But close enough. I'm not sure. I didnt get my speedo recalibrated but these seem VERY close to my RL driving in every day. I was pushing @150 MPH in my CAR ?!! Sheesh...this is scary... I'd rather not know these things sometimes. Do you have any way to calculate Acelleration factors ? >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >For ratio 4.88: (*More stats deleted*) >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >For ratio 4.66: (*more stats deleted*) >As to which to use, it depends on when you usually shift. From the above, >it doesn't seem like there's all that much difference - in 1st gear, >if you're shifting at 10000, you get 49 MPH for the 5.33, 51 MPH for the >4.88, and 54 for the 4.66 - only a 5 mph difference! Hopefully you know where >your power band is; will the 4.66 drop you out of your power band when >you shift from one gear to the next, to each of the 4 upper gears? Will >it be more usable on the street? Hmmmm thats true Derek. I didnt think about it that way. I think my concern is acceleration times then speed times. My normal driving doesnt always let me go up to 10000 RPM as my car gets VERY loud and VERY noticeable since its painted almost Arrest-Me-Red Porsche India Red ! Gack ! I'd have to go and monitor when i shift now. I'd say i shift at low RPM's in the 4000 RPM range as just before the power cuts in. Thanks I have to think Again now.... (*theres that word again Chris !*) >P.S. - don't forget to recalibrate the speedo! I didn't recalibrate mines. I did for 4.3 by changing the transmission little plastic gear with the GTS one cause stock is 4.3 for that car i belive. I also think that if i'm going anything over 60MPH i'm speeding so whats the sense of knowing how fast ya going when the Nice Policeman stops you ? =) Plus My speedo only goes to 85 MPH and thats buried half the time. >Derek Deeter derekd@wv.mentorg.com Thanks a Bunch alot Derek ! this is major food for thought !!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:11:05 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Comments from God of Toyota Mods >Jon Writes... >> I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so >> that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of >> the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my >> Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Wow ! Thats consistant shifting ! Damm..i still misshift now and then ! >Not a bad rule of thumb, but you gotta remember that with race cars, red >line is kinda hard to define. Like Koji says, he can run his Corolla at >10K for 20 min or better. (Kids, don't try that with the folks Yugo!) >I think Pat Braden says something to the same effect though in the >TPHandbook. I'd like to say in my defense. I use a lot of lubrication and synthetics in my car and motor. Almost everything is synthetic and to prevent wear. Else I would belive my motor would have blown up already. I can sustain the 10k RPM run another time. Infact there is a Road Rally race comming up i've been invited to join because the last winner was a 1986 Prelude and 3 300Z Cars Ones a Twin Turbo for sure, has been invited this time also. I've been invited with 2 of my friends with Mazada RX-7 Turbo II's to provide the spoilers for these guys. Thus I wanna be able to out acellerate and corner those guys. I can out corner any one of them with no problems. The Speed Factor and acceleration time i'm worried about. Top speed means nothing down here. No where to run !!!!! >Really, the _right_ way to do it is to get a complete dyno test run and >then overlay the torque and HP vs RPM curves. Each car/engine will >require something a little different. Kinda expensive, but if you are >into racing it is the way to go. I had a dyno test and i belive my dyno results are almost the same as Derek posted later on. >Chris - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:25:09 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Chassis Posting by me... Errr....I think for SW-11 I posted it was a Turbo MR-2 or such. I think it is. Almost postitive just the newer body style when they switched over to the Turbo models. The Ep's are the Starlets and the EL-something are the Paseos....sorry for the confusion...I apologize. I should have known better. Dang.. - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:22:47 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Welcome MR-2 Owner >Allow me to introduct to the list Ray Bahr, MR2 racer/suspension guru. >----- Begin Included Message ----- >From bahrr@pictel.com Fri Nov 12 13:42:12 1993 >Hi: > I would like to join this group. I live in New England so I have >access to a number of race tracks as well as nice roads. I own a 1991 >MR-2 Turbo with a HKS >muffler, and I have done a +1 with rims ( Fitti Indy's with 225/50, >205/50-15) Welcome Ray ! By chance, is your car Scarlet Red ? (or what ever its called that year) ? My friend has the similar rims on his MR-2 with Yokohama A008RS II tires on it. > I have built up a 1986 MR2 with a lot of suspension stuff an a >little engine stuff. ( I like to do track events). About your 1986 MR-2. I've played with one. This little car is a very well balanced car. Almost all MR-2's are ready for Road Racing or SCCA. The only Things to change is just the SHocks to TRD ones and Put on a Sway bar kit. The shocks improved the MR-2 i worked on by over 3 seconds and the Sway bars by over a 2 second gap. And this is comming from a guy whom runs a Automatic in SCCA...Boggle that =) >Thanks >Ray Bahr >----- End Included Message ----- >Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a >few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older >4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have >you! Heh....Good..i need more suspension help ! I'm building a 1985 MR-2 for my friend with a Supercharged bottom end. I was wondering if you like the the Stock springs or would change it offhand. I would normally say change them right off but the car comes so well balanced from the start. Any comments on what works the best or what you need and don't ? =) Thanks Again Chris... =) -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:03:23 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: A Matter of Gearing >> >>Background of Whole.... >> (*lots of stuff deleted*) >> Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? >> >>(...other stuff deleted) >Allen, > I am using a 4.1 diff on my starlet, at 100 KPH (62 MPH -- Speed >limit in Ontario), I am reving between 3800 - 4000 RPM. Which is just about >fine, since my cams are rated by TRD as providing power between 3500 - 7500 >+ RPM. At 100 KPH, I can stamp on the gas without shifting down, and the >car will pull great as it revs to the end of its power band.... Using @ a 272 by 7.5 cam both sides ? (Do you know you can put the cams in backwards ? just a thought) > You say that you are reving to 10K, but is the engine actually >developing power at this level? For a 10K RPM engine, you need cams with at >least 320 degrees of duration with equally agressive lift, (is this the >case?) A rear end ratio over 5.0, is suited to such an engine, as it will >quickly allow the car to get into its high RPM band. (You will have little >power below 3000 RPM) I can't remember what the ratios are for the TRD >close ratio gear sets (VS stock), but TRD states that a rear end ratio over >5 needs the TRD gear set, otherwise the car will run out the 1st gear in 6 >ft! My car runs about in the i'd say 7000 rpm range. I can push it to 8k - 10k plus but thats speeds over 100mph which i start to get the shakes. My car is basically a stock motor ;) (don't quote me on this one) so it follows the stock motor power band curve (or supposed to). I run about in the 4k crusing mode and up to about 8k. My car can develop power into the 10k but its pushing it severly at that level. I'd say my power band is from the 4500-7000+ I do not like to run my car at this speed due to driving shakes and my motor sounds likes its gonna blow up at any moment. I can acellerate from 60mph to 100mph very fast which poses no problem. I can keep up with my friends Turbo II Mazda RX-7 with accelleration but i can't pass him or gain on him. Oh and about my car running out of 1st gear in the first 6ft....thats somewhat false....i would be VERY HAPPY if my car went 6ft in first gear. I belive my first gear only goes 5ft max then my little shift light comes on and flashes at me to shift cause i hit 8000 rpm !!! (*sigh*) > I think that if you are starting in second and spinning rubber, >that stepping down to a 4.88 will not affect your launching advantage, you >might actually be better off, as you will be able to travel further in each >gear (all other things being equal). Hmmm..i mean i can spin rubber in second gear if i want to, but not sure if I do step down my acelleration times will go down. I know this is a matter of High end theory and engine work. But I have minimum engine work and want the maximum performance for my car. I know this is confusing but thanks for trying to push me in some sensiable direction. Please point me towards the exit please... Thanks... - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: derekd@wv.MENTORG.COM (Derek Deeter) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:14:26 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: A Matter of Serious Gearing I made up a program a few years back to analyze some of what you're going thru when I had the same problems with my car - It shows you the RPMS and speeds you can expect with various tire, rearend, and transmission gearing. I put your data into it, and these are the results: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- for 5.13 gears: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 5.13 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 5.13, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 13.4919 4 9 14 19 24 29 34 39 44 49 2 1.61 8.2439 8 16 24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80 3 1.38 7.0999 9 18 27 37 46 55 65 74 83 93 4 1.00 5.1300 12 25 38 51 64 77 90 103 116 129 5 0.86 4.4118 15 30 45 60 75 90 105 120 135 150 RPMs for ratio 5.13, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 13.4919 2038 4076 6114 8153 10191 11210 12229 13248 14267 2 1.61 8.2439 1245 2490 3736 4981 6227 6849 7472 8095 8717 3 1.38 7.0999 1072 2145 3217 4290 5363 5899 6435 6971 7508 4 1.00 5.1300 775 1550 2325 3100 3875 4262 4650 5037 5425 5 0.86 4.4118 666 1333 1999 2666 3332 3665 3999 4332 4665 where the 'ratio' column is the tranny ratio, 'total' column is tranny gear times rear end ratio. The top chart has RPM's across the top, and the corresponding speed in the gears for that RPM under it. The lower chart is the opposite, showing speed across the top, and the RPM's for each speed in the gears under it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For ratio 4.88: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 4.88 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 4.88, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 12.8344 5 10 15 20 25 30 36 41 46 51 2 1.61 7.8422 8 16 25 33 42 50 59 67 75 84 3 1.38 6.7539 9 19 29 39 49 58 68 78 88 98 4 1.00 4.8800 13 27 40 54 67 81 94 108 122 135 5 0.86 4.1968 15 31 47 63 78 94 110 126 141 157 RPMs for ratio 4.88, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 12.8344 1938 3877 5816 7755 9694 10664 11633 12602 13572 2 1.61 7.8422 1184 2369 3554 4738 5923 6516 7108 7700 8293 3 1.38 6.7539 1020 2040 3060 4081 5101 5611 6121 6632 7142 4 1.00 4.8800 737 1474 2211 2948 3686 4054 4423 4792 5160 5 0.86 4.1968 634 1268 1902 2536 3170 3487 3804 4121 4438 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- For ratio 4.66: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 4.66 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 4.66, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 12.2558 5 10 16 21 27 32 37 43 48 54 2 1.61 7.4886 8 17 26 35 44 53 61 70 79 88 3 1.38 6.4494 10 20 30 41 51 61 71 82 92 102 4 1.00 4.6600 14 28 42 56 71 85 99 113 127 142 5 0.86 4.0076 16 33 49 66 82 99 115 132 148 165 RPMs for ratio 4.66, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 12.2558 1851 3703 5554 7406 9257 10183 11109 12034 12960 2 1.61 7.4886 1131 2262 3393 4525 5656 6222 6787 7353 7919 3 1.38 6.4494 974 1948 2922 3897 4871 5358 5845 6333 6820 4 1.00 4.6600 703 1407 2111 2815 3519 3871 4223 4575 4927 5 0.86 4.0076 605 1210 1816 2421 3027 3329 3632 3935 4238 As to which to use, it depends on when you usually shift. From the above, it doesn't seem like there's all that much difference - in 1st gear, if you're shifting at 10000, you get 49 MPH for the 5.33, 51 MPH for the 4.88, and 54 for the 4.66 - only a 5 mph difference! Hopefully you know where your power band is; will the 4.66 drop you out of your power band when you shift from one gear to the next, to each of the 4 upper gears? Will it be more usable on the street? P.S. - don't forget to recalibrate the speedo! -- Derek Deeter derekd@wv.mentorg.com Mentor Graphics Corp. 8005 S.W. Boeckman Rd., Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:37:51 EST To: Raymond Bahr , toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: MR2 Turbo problem > I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway > driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! > ( very hot). This is certainly getting too hot. don't let them snow you - you have a real problem. Note that the manifold cracked - that's almost certainly from the excessive thermal strain. It sounds like a combustion problem to me, as if perhaps the timing is too retarded and the exhaust valves open before the charge is burned, so it goes on burning on its way down the exhaust manifold. Or something like that... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:25:10 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: MR2 Turbo problem Hi: I do a lot of work on cars as a hobby, and I have a problem which has me stumped! I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! ( very hot). I have replaced the catalitic converter, the o2 sensor, the EGR valve, and the exhaust mainfold - the old one cracked. I am in the process of checking the valve timing - by inspection. The compression is good around 170 psi in all cylinders, the vacumm is good - steady and where it should be. Toyota hotline is completly useless. They try to convince me that this is not bad!! The manifold gets hot enough to cause the oil filter to singe. If anyone knows what the exhaust gas temp should be, or what this problem could be I desperatly need to know. BTW the gas milage is fairly normal. Also it has to be night to see the manifold glowing - but I still think that it is to hot. Thanks in advance! Ray Bahr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:38:27 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Last Friday's race... Well, a few folks were interested in how my first real race in the new car went, so I thought I'd let everyone know. I finished on the lead lap, but that's about as good a comment as I can make. 2 problems: Not making good power in the appropriate rpm range, and _serious_ oversteer. My rpms were ranging from about 3600 to 7000 in 2nd gear, which is perfect, but I still wasn't getting good power. My power range still seems to be in the 2000 - 4500 rpm range. Possible problems: 1. Timing to retarded. 2. Distributor not advancing properly. 3. Fuel too rich. 4. Wrong cam, or cam too advanced. I am going to work on this during the week. As far as the oversteer goes, I suspected I might have a problem before I went racing. I changed the rear shocks and that tightened the rear, but the front was still _very_ loose. Plus, I had too little air in my LR tire. Things I want to do before next race... 1. Move the battery from its stock location in the RF corner of the car to behind the driver's seat (done!) 2. Change the Tire pressures to.... LF: 20 LR & RF: 25 RR: 30 Note that this put more air in the back than in the front, hopefully helping the car to understeer a little. 3. Change the spring rates. I'm going to a race shop Tuesday to get the car weighed and a recommendation of rates given. The nice part of this is it is allowing me to do some investigation of spring suppliers for our supplier list. Big week this week, so I doubt I'll get everything done in time to race this Friday. Let me know if you have any other thoughts on the situation, especially the underpower thing. Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: derekd@wv.MENTORG.COM (Derek Deeter) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 15:51:45 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: A Matter of Gearing (*with stats !*) >Errrr I belive these stats are a bit off. But close enough. I'm not sure. >I didnt get my speedo recalibrated but these seem VERY close to my RL driving >in every day. I was pushing @150 MPH in my CAR ?!! Sheesh...this is scary... >I'd rather not know these things sometimes. I agree - You sure you were in 5th gear, and not in 4th? What roads let you get to those kinds of speeds in Hawaii? >Do you have any way to calculate Acelleration factors ? Sorry, nope. Sounds like one of those PC dragstrip programs is what you want - too much other data needed: weight, hp, drivetrain inertia, etc., you get the idea... >>P.S. - don't forget to recalibrate the speedo! >I didn't recalibrate mines. I did for 4.3 by changing the transmission little >plastic gear with the GTS one cause stock is 4.3 for that car i belive. I also >think that if i'm going anything over 60MPH i'm speeding so whats the sense >of knowing how fast ya going when the Nice Policeman stops you ? =) Plus >My speedo only goes to 85 MPH and thats buried half the time. The 4.3 gear is 24% off from the 5.33 gears; So that means when your speedo shows you going 60 mph, you're actually doing around 45, so you err on the safe side by a lot! Hmmm, if you could find a way to reduce another 15% on the speedo gearing (38%total), you could use the kilometer scale on your speedo! Since your speedo is off, the only way to really tell what differences the gearing would make is to take the car down to the local dragstrip, if you can, and get some actual times there; then switch the gears and do it again. Good Luck with those mods! - Derek xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 19:00:38 EST From: Ralph Brown To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Using GPS for measurements There are hand held GPS (Global Positioning System) receivers around now for less than $500 which can measure speeds up to about 1000 mph and acceleration to 2g. Anyone considered using one of these to do performance measurement? It's cheaper than a dyno. Ralph xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 18:17:49 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Using GPS for measurements > There are hand held GPS (Global Positioning System) receivers around now > for less than $500 which can measure speeds up to about 1000 mph and > acceleration to 2g. Anyone considered using one of these to do > performance measurement? It's cheaper than a dyno. > > Ralph > The ones I have worked with only have an update rate of about 0.5 seconds! (Not sure about ALL of the available ones) Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 14:26:25 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Toy-mods list >Ya gotta love this guy. After reading at least a dozen messages in a >row from him, I get this... >----- Begin Included Message ----- >errr it occured to me... >errrr.. >does anyone on this list like have to pay for their mail feed ? >if so... >maybe you could bunch up all the mail in one day and send it to them >that would ? >would that be easier for them ? >so they don't have to pay for all these nonsense posts ? >just wondering orsoemthign i thought about >-allen >----- End Included Message ----- Sheesh ;) Nah, I was just wondering if anyone pays for their messages. On another SIG Mailing list there are serval people that have to pay (*gasp*) for the amount of mail that they get. So what >I< do for them (cause i drive a toyota and am SUCH a nice guy) I get all the daily mail and then shoot it to them in one spurt thus saving them time and $$$ with one message. Internet in Hawaii kinna sucks. I'm posting more from my tkoseki account then my own because of system lag on my other. I havent been able to read anything from that system for days. Either that or my times I log on they are doing some serious number crunching. >Phenomenal mechanic, great driver, and sensitive too! Truth is, I don't >know the answer to this one, so let me know if the volume/frequency of >mail is a problem. For you newer members, Koji (Allen) is part of a new >age experiment to combine a "stream of consciousness" writing style with >technical subject matter. BTW, all of the stuff he writes will make >sense if you a.) read it 15 times or b.) use a blotter of LSD before >reading it. Either way, he knows more about the stuff we are interested >in that about anyone I know, so it's worth the effort. Sheesh again. I guess i never told you how i rebuilt my motor and put on the headgasket backwards so that oil was shooting out ?! Or the time when i rebuilt a 20R motor and put in the crank backwards. Hmmm, I belive I am one of two guys on the island that put his 4AGE cams in backwards when installing them.... heh... ;) Ya...Forgive me, I don't have a g/f (and Chris won't set me up with his sisters) so my writing style is usually all blurted out. Sorry folks. >Now, if I could just convice Koji to post at some time _other_ than >between midnight and 5 am, and not to try to write as fast as he >drives.....nah, then it wouldn't be Koji! Heh...Sorry, I'm a night person. Always been. And about my typing...gosh... I need a spelling corrector ! (*gasp*) >Chris (*Grovel to the Toyota-mods God*) Aloha All.... -Allen T "Koji" Kam (*Like >I< even know what MY name is*) *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 18:29:05 CST From: J Grant Montgomery To: Subject: Re: Using GPS for measurements Using the GPS is fine for measuring velocity, my friend's Dad did last spring. He found out that the speedo in his Honda (Aack!) was off by 3 mph. I do not know about how fast it will update, probably varies by manufacturer though. Grant WA24%UTMARTN.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu // UT BAD1 // '85 Celica Supra 5-speed & Alpine CD // xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Using GPS for measurements Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 19:32:09 -0500 From: rbrown@spca.bbn.com > The ones I have worked with only have an update rate of about > 0.5 seconds! (Not sure about ALL of the available ones) > Fredo That's true, but isn't that enough? Things don't happen that fast, and in particular don't happen very non-linearly. In considering this a bit more, it seems to me the real way to do it is just take out the positions at the fastest repetition rate into a PC via the data out lines. Then use a simple curve fit, such as a spline to fit the data. For better accuracy, run the test several times which will give some intermediate points. Now you've got a bunch of data depending on what the test was. For example in a straight line, it is an acceleration curve for the car which if you were in say 2nd gear and knew the weight would give you a hp curve. If the test were a run around an autocross course it would give you the line and could be used to derive max lateral acceleration. Ralph xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 14:52:44 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: 0-60 MPH Time (Unfair with 5.13 gearing) >Allen, >How fast can your car do 0-60MPH? Hmmm....thats a VERY good question. To tell you the Truth. I really can't tell. I havent recalibrated my speedo so I have no real guide to go by... Or do I Thanks to Derek (VERY MUCH GRATEFUL) and a local Speed shop down here. This is how it goes racing a 1988 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II. From the traffic light. Light Turns Green. I launch properly at about 3k not spinning the tires, quickly shift into second about 2.5 seconds after the launch shifting at about 5500 RPM into third. By now i have stretched about a two car length lead on my friend in the RX-Turbo II (but this is cause of turbo lag and his blow off valve wasnt installed yet). Another 2 seconds pass and i'm shifting into 3rd and my friend catchs up to me. About another 2.3 Seconds pass and i'm in 4th doing about 5000 RPM and thats approx 60 MPH wtih my calculations. By now my friends Turbo has kicked in and is seriously about to kick my butt. I'd say about 6.3 Seconds @ 0-60 MPH Please do not be fooled by my 0-60 times. My car is not THAT fast. Remeber my car has VERY BIG Gearing and tires. And i've done some minor / Major engine work and suspension work. I figure i'm losing about .5 seconds with my suspension set up because its WAY too stiff. And all the bigger gearing to me means is that you get to your speed faster. I'm not trying to say my car is fast. It clocks an adverage of high 16's, low 17's down the 1/4 mile mostly because i run out of gears half way down the track. (But since i race SCCA i've never clocked my car down the 1/4 mile ;P ) I know i can pretty much out acellerate a 300Z non turbo and CRX's and can keep up with a ZR-1 till he reached 60mph or so then he pulls like crazy. I know i can catch a Mustang 5.0 GT when I shift to 5th gear and he reaches about 100MPH. I how ever got my buttkicked by a Vortec Powered Astro Van down here. I have all bottom end which is all that I am concerned about. Hope this helps you or gives you some ideas. But PLEASE....don't try this at home ;) >Very Curious, >Gary Anytime Gary....Was kinna fun and I had to get Breakfast =) -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 14:54:33 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Using GPS for measurements I've used one of these "GPS" systems. It says i can pull 1G in a turn and 15 seconds down the 1/4 mile. Go Figure. Get a Real Dyno =) -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 14:59:15 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: WA24%UTMARTN.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Using GPS for measurements >Using the GPS is fine for measuring velocity, my friend's Dad did last >spring. He found out that the speedo in his Honda (Aack!) was off by 3 >mph. I do not know about how fast it will update, probably varies by >manufacturer though. Sorry about the updating part. The one i used was errr...I'll post the name later when i find it. But the speed up dates came approx every second. Kinna slow considering the RPM's read VERY slow like 2k - 4k for the next reading. Its something I would buy though to measure of get a good guesstimate of what the car can do and how it performs. >Grant >WA24%UTMARTN.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu >// UT BAD1 // '85 Celica Supra 5-speed & Alpine CD // Damm...You people have stereos in your car ? (*sigh*) I'm jealous.... Proably even have AC and power steering too (*sigh*) Biyas... -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 15:14:22 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: derekd@wv.MENTORG.COM, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: A Matter of Gearing (*with stats !*) >>(*Deleted stuff about my car going 150mph*) >>(*Boggle the concept*) >I agree - You sure you were in 5th gear, and not in 4th? What roads let >you get to those kinds of speeds in Hawaii? Heh...welps through the pineapple fields and on the freeways. We do have SOME limited straight aways and the freeways aren't that crowded on off hours. This girl i kinna see lives some (*gasp*) 25 miles from me. Which takes me going over a mountain and on a freeway (past 2 police stations btw) so there is some limited space down here. Thats why I chose bigger gearing cause top end means nothing down here. I can catch about anything except when I goto the Northshore of the island and have those long FLAT Straight-aways and the V8's play havok down there. =) >>Do you have any way to calculate Acelleration factors ? >Sorry, nope. Sounds like one of those PC dragstrip programs is what you >want - too much other data needed: weight, hp, drivetrain inertia, etc., >you get the idea... Ya i do....hmm...the one i used. Some mickey mouse basic program works kinna okay. But not accurate enough. I've seen serval at the last SEMA show i went to but that was about 2 years ago. Anyone got one btw ? =) Chris ? Does your project thing...can it be adapted to my car ? >>(*Speedo Recalibration*) >The 4.3 gear is 24% off from the 5.33 gears; So that means when your speedo >shows you going 60 mph, you're actually doing around 45, so you err on the >safe side by a lot! Hmmm, if you could find a way to reduce another 15% on >the speedo gearing (38%total), you could use the kilometer scale on your >speedo! Actually. I kinna got a speedo from a car that came from Canada (*grin*) and was using that a while with a 3.9 set of gear thingie in the trans. That gave kinna an accurate reading but that plastic piece broke and i'm a Poor Unemployed Student and can't afford another $5.45 to buy another ;) Thats good advice. My friend whom told me to run it isnt the greatest math major in the world so i didnt take his word for granted and my g/f at the time didnt like me to speed so I told her it was off cause there is no way my car could go 50 driving in traffic ;) >Since your speedo is off, the only way to really tell what differences >the gearing would make is to take the car down to the local dragstrip, >if you can, and get some actual times there; then switch the gears and >do it again. Thanks...will try do so when Toyota rents the track down here again... >Good Luck with those mods! >- Derek Thanks much again..i Need it i think =) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: 0-60 MPH Time (Unfair with 5.13 gearing) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 17:50:15 PST >From Allen K. >>How fast can your car do 0-60MPH? > >I'd say about 6.3 Seconds @ 0-60 MPH Ah, very impressive.... How much HP does your engine put out. Estimate if you don't know. >I know i can pretty much out acellerate a 300Z non turbo and CRX's and can >keep up with a ZR-1 till he reached 60mph or so then he pulls like crazy. I >know i can catch a Mustang 5.0 GT when I shift to 5th gear and he reaches about >100MPH. I how ever got my buttkicked by a Vortec Powered Astro Van down here. >I have all bottom end which is all that I am concerned about. Hope this helps >you or gives you some ideas. But PLEASE....don't try this at home ;) Have you raced an M3? The M3 doesn't fare well off the line (0-60MPH: 7.1 sec stock, 6.9 sec with a dinan chip), but when it hits 4.5K, the car takes off like a turbo. Another curious question since I have an M3, but haven't taken it to it's limit and would like to know what the car can really do w/o racing it on the public freeways. I've driven at 130MPH, but decided to slow down on 880 since I got paranoid about being caught. The car does sound good at that speed with a load (sweet!). Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 08:41:40 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Red Hot MR2 Hi: My tale of woe continues! I have a 91 MR2 Turbo whose exhaust manifold gets red hot after about 45 min of 70 - 80 MPH driving. I/dealer have replaced: - The O2 sensor - The exhaust manifold ( the old one cracked) - The egr valve - the egr pipe - the old one cracked - the primary cat - used both the oem muffler and a HKS freeflow muffler I have checked / measured the following: - compression - 175 psi / cyl - vacumm 16.5 in-hg at intake - computer codes - engine compartment fan - the engine timing is at 10 deg btdc at 2500 rpm but seems to get up to 25 - 40 deg btdc at higher rpm ( just eyeballing it) - the O2 sensor passes the 1st test - at 2500 rpm with correct terminals shorted, it fluctuates more than 10 times in 10 sec, BUT voltage accross VF1 -> E1 measures 1v for a while, jumps to 1.5 volts, drops back to 1 volt - book says it should be 0 volts? The Toy hotline still tells me that I am imagining things, and that it is alright for the engine to get hot afterall I am breaking the law by going 70 - 80 mph, but they have no data on exhaust gas temperature and 2 dealers have not been able to find anything. Make me want to buy a '93 - at least the rear end would be a little less intersting at speed!! I would greatly appreciate ( aka desperatly need) any suggestions. Thanks Ray xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 05:30:42 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RED Hot MR-2 (*Questioning Reply*) >Hi: > My tale of woe continues! I have a 91 MR2 Turbo whose exhaust >manifold gets red hot after about 45 min of 70 - 80 MPH driving. I/dealer >have replaced: > (*lots of stuff deleted*) > - used both the oem muffler and a HKS freeflow muffler >I have checked / measured the following: > - engine compartment fan Sorry but did you check to see if it was operational at all tempatures ? And if the sensor is working properly ? Was your thermostat ever replaced ? Just questions I'd like to know. I know I stated this before but it seems the most logical of choices when comming to this car. >Thanks >Ray -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 11:29:23 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: toyota-mods server Koji and I were just chatting about how nice it would be to have an anonymous toyota-mods FTP server. It would be a place we could put GIF's of cars, as well as a place to archive discussions an various subjects (like the thread on O2 sensors) so that we can just point new users to that subject. It would be a place we could take all of the recent data on Celica's that was generated, consolidate it into one file, and put it for future reference. We could even do things "RFC" style. If things ever got a little slow, someone could just post a request for comment on a particular subject, and then consolidate all of the comments into a single file. This would be especially helpful if we ever are able to realize my dream of developing a book based on our ramblings. Obviously the machine we choose must be fast, almost always available, stable, and one of our members should be (the only) superuser. My machine could be a start, but the hard drive is a little limited. I am root on another machine with a larger, very empty hard drive, but it is frequetly taken out of the 'net to maximize performance. Comments? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 13:36:36 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: 0-60 MPH Time (Unfair with 5.13 gearing) > >>Allen, > >>How fast can your car do 0-60MPH? > Stuff deleted ... >I'd say about 6.3 Seconds @ 0-60 MPH > >Please do not be fooled by my 0-60 times. My car is not THAT fast. Remeber my >car has VERY BIG Gearing and tires. And i've done some minor / Major engine >work and suspension work. I figure i'm losing about .5 seconds with my >suspension set up because its WAY too stiff. And all the bigger gearing to me >means is that you get to your speed faster. > >I'm not trying to say my car is fast. It clocks an adverage of high 16's, >low 17's down the 1/4 mile mostly because i run out of gears half way down the >track. (But since i race SCCA i've never clocked my car down the 1/4 mile ;P ) > Allen, One of the faster starlets (4AGE) I know about uses a TRD close ratio gear set (Which I believe is made by Quaife), and a 5.3 diff, (car is set up for circuit racing VS 1/4 mile "Dragging") this car has done a 12.4x standing 1/4 mile, and a 9.x flying 1/4 mile, some one estimated it at 0-60 in 5 secs or under (anyone know the formula for estimating 0-60 based on 1/4 mile times?) with a maximum top speed of 115 MPH. As for running out of gears half way down the track, I suspect maybe you are not shifting at the optimum RPM, shifting at 5500 RPM into 3 rd strikes me as low. If you are running out the 1st gear in 5-6 ft, then there's no benefit, of a 5.13 diff, no? Over the summer, I took my car to a "Real" Drag strip (Cayuga Speedway), I recorded a best of 14.708 in the 1/4 mile. I recall, that when I was at the end, I was still in 3rd, about to hit 4th with the revs around 8000 RPM, on slower runs which netted times in the 15's and 16's, I was in 4th and 5th gear resp., by the 1/4 mile mark. The Computer readout for my fastest run: Car # Auto1 Auto2 Reaction Time .970 .931 <== Okay, so I'm no Ken Dutweiler? 60' 2.339 2.354 330' 6.334 6.245 1/8 9.603 9.515 MPH 76.10 75.20 1000 12.397 12.326 1/4 14.748 14.708 MPH 96.24 94.22 1st Me (Auto 2) >>.079 I'll admit Auto 1 (a modified chevy V8 station wagon) probably would of caught/overtaken me in another few secs, the .079 second difference translated into a car length in front of him. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 14:50:28 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: toyota-mods site While you're chewing on that last post inquiring about a site for anonymous FTP, here's one better. An anonymous hypertext (mosaic-style) server. If you haven't played with mosaic yet, get a copy and run it. They have it for UNIX, PC's and Macs, and it is totally cool, definitely at the cutting edge of technology for presenting information. If you are not familiar with hypertext, it simply allows you to point and click on a highlighted word, and it will do something, such as bring up another directory, display an image, play a audio or video file, etc. Mosaic is a hypertext presentation tool developed by NCSA. Imagine this. You log into the toyota-mods mosaic server. Your Mosaic window displays a high-resolution color image of the toyota-mods logo, along with some textual information. You scan through the introductory information and then click on a highlighted word or phrase. Another window pops up with a list of Categories. You might select "electrical", then "alternator" when the next window pops up. Finally, the alternator window pops up. You could click on "gif" to display images of common toyota alternators, including exploded views. Click on "rebuilding" to get a textual description on how to rebuild alternators. Within that description are several other hypertext "keys" which would allow you to jump to other, possibly vaguely related subjects if you needed additional information. Finally "gurus" would list the list members who contributed to that particular section of the code, and clicking on their name would open a mailer to send them a direct query. Cool, eh? Developing such a server is _re Using mosaic is just as easy. The different viewers/mailers/etc that I mentioned above will be completely famliar to you, because you specify which ones to use. mosaic simply acts as a front-end to those tools that you already use. And the part that really excites me is that this _would_be_ the book I mentioned before. No, not a book in paper form, but even better. 3 months ago I had gobs of time to work on something like this. Now, suddenly, the job I am on has become urgent. Such is life. So I know there is probably someone out there who would have some time to work on something like this. If you are a student, mosaic/hypertext experience looks really good on a resume' to the right employer (hint hint). I'll shut up now. At any rate, if you have the opportunity, play with mosaic some, because it is really neat. Later... _ ____| \__ '82 4x4 Christopher P. Myer {_^____^_} (cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com) @ @ (407) 725-8742 ___ Melbourne, Florida ____/ ||:. '81 Celica GT <_^___81_^__) @ @ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 15:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Red-Horse Subject: Replacing Timing Cover Gasket on an '85 4x4? To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Hello All, Not to change the current thread direction or anything, but I have a quick question for all of the 22re gurus out there. (OK, I feel a little guilty for not really actively participating in the group so mini-flames accompanying responses will *not* be taken personally.) I have an '85 4Runner that has a blown timing cover gasket and it's spewing oil like a sieve. I've been putting off addressing this problem for some time, but now it's beginning to drown my alternator connection. So here I am, one again, asking for some expertise. I took a look at my shop manual and it indicates that I will need to (1) pull the head, (2) jack up the engine and remove the oil pan; and (3) go from there. I, OTOH, would prefer to just do (2) and leave the head alone. Is this possible? Can anyone make any recommendations regarding what else to do while I'm this far into the engine (say e.g. replace the oil pump, or the timing chain assy---if this is even possible w/o removing the head, etc). I have ~150K miles on the engine. cheers, john John Red-Horse jrredho@sandia.gov Structural Dynamics & Vibration Control Sandia National Laboratories (505)845-9190 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:20:41 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Red Hot MR2 Howdy! I would really suggest a few things: 1) Forget about any dealer/manufacturer people. They gave me the same "shame on you" story when I told them my Corolla GTS was having sucked-out syndrome above 90 MPH. Ask them why they even bother to make speedometers that measure in excess of 60 MPH ??????? 2) Get yourself to a performance shop with one of those nifty air/fuel ratio meters they stick up your tailpipe. It sounds like one situation may be that your car is running lean. 3) You may have a large vacuum leak. This could also cause the car to run lean. 4) Does the turbo produce boost? It could be that your turbo is not producing boost (ie. not spinning easily) and thereby acting as an obstruction to your exhaust. Note that most factory turbo guages are really inaccurate for this. These are not all my own ideas. I make no claim to brilliance (at least not for cars) but rather I spoke to my favorite mechanic! My own advice, find yourself a good performance auto place, preferably one that specializes in Toyotas/Japanese autos (not some small-block Chevy hacks - please no flame). Let us know how you make out. Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:30:45 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: toyota-mods server > Obviously the machine we choose must be fast, almost always available, > stable, and one of our members should be (the only) superuser. My > machine could be a start, but the hard drive is a little limited. I am > root on another machine with a larger, very empty hard drive, but it is > frequetly taken out of the 'net to maximize performance. > > Comments? > > Chris > Sure, I have a machine at home with about 1 GB of free space...... but no internet! Anyone know how to get me free internet access??????? Fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 16:53:36 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: re: Red Hot MR2 Perhaps you have a partially plugged catalytic converter or other obstruction in you exhaust. I have certainly heard of other turbocharged cars also having glowing manifolds (Volvo comes to mind) but when you said your oil filter was getting singed that does sound like a problem. Jon Hacker xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:36:28 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Red Hot MR-2 (*Again*) Errrr.....did you check the Fan relay that it works properly ? I belive your car is a 91 or something so isnt it still under warrenty ? Also bench testing and driving the car is two different things and I'm completely out of ideas or soulutions to this... Good luck and have them replace the whole cooling system ;) -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:11:36 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Stereo's and A/C (with Gearing) >Hey Allen, Oats Grant, > You mean you don't even have radio in your car? I couldn't live >without my Alpine in the car. I didn't stop with a new tuner last year, >I have an equalizer, seperate Amplifier, Infinity speakers, and of >course the Alpine CD Tuner. Errrrr I used to have one before. I kinna took it out because of weight. I had a old system that was kinan good. A 7390 controller with a 5957 Cd changer (middle of the line 2 Idac 8x over sampling 20 bit) a 3336 Eq running into two Punch 150's, 1 PPI and 2 Carver Amps. This how ever opted me to run a high power alternator thus robbing my car of more power. The MSD or the first one I had a 6-A or something died. So I picked up the 7-AL. However, this system lasted in my car about 3 months because of down time of my car cracking exhaust manifold bolts. >It's great because when I want to race some bozo at the traffic light >next to me, I just crank the radio, give him a quick smirk, wait for >the green flag(light) and the rubber's all over the asphalt with him >yards behind me!!! Ha! Heh Pure Sound and Speed huh ? I like that idea. >Well, that's the way it works out most of the time anyway. Heh...i can imagine...just don't race anything that has 2 18" woofers facing backwards, he might turn on the Zeus amp and gain boost off the line due to the bass frequencys and air displacement pushing him forward ;) >My car is more than pretty much stock, it is stock (parts, not soud system). >If I wanted to change one thing to make my car faster (off the line) >what would you recommend? I would recommend changing gearing. Changing of gearing is the single most thng that will give you the best results with the least amount of work. Your top end speed will suffer a bit but i would suggest somewhere in the 4.66 range or 4.55. Gives you a bit of extra edge and still keeping your freeway milage pretty good. Acelleration is better. Another simple thing is to get the K&N for your car. It helps ALOT ! Also cut into the plastic housing making maybe 2 holes on the top of it maybe 3 inches across like squares. This will allow more air to go in. I will get the exact mesaurements and what works best for this. The final thing is maybe adding a potentiometer (????) to your car. Or to adjust your air fuel mixtrue. These are work. I've done such things with your year Supra. Get back to me if interested. >Thanks alot and take it easy! Anytime...and always do =) >Later, >Grant Montgomery >// UT BAD1 // 1985 Celica Supra 5-speed & Alpine CD // - Allen T "Koji" Kam // EAU 852 // 1980 Corolla SR-5 5 Speed & No radio what so ever =( // *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 22:08:45 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Sprinter Tail Lights For Sale Japan Toyota Sprinter Tail lights for sale. They fit the 1985 - 1988 Corolla GTS. The Sprinter can be made to light up. I bought them for about $450 from Japan. Will sell them for about $300. Let me know... -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 09:17:02 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Forwarded message from New member Craig sent this along with his subscription request. It was a bit long to put in the introductions, so I am forwarding it separately. Chris ----- Begin Included Message ----- Hi there, I've just joined the toyota list, but it appears that toyota-mods is a better forum for what I'm after, and I have a few questions about some toyota engines: What I'd like to know is what engine options there are for a 'toyota sprinter' 83/84 model (This is the name of it in Australia). It's a rear wheel drive '2 door hatchback corolla'. Aparrently these have either a 4A engine (1.6litre carburetted), Or a 3T-C engine (also 1.6 litre carburetted) I think the japanese market got a 4AG(E?), but I'm pretty sure we (IE Australia) got the 3TC. Can anyone tell me what other engines will fit. So far I've come up with- 4A = 1.6 litre SOHC carburetted 4AG = 1.6 litre DOHC carburetted 4AGE = 1.6 litre DOHC injected (= 'twin cam corolla' engine (86/7) 4AGZE = 1.6 litre DOHC supercharged injected (= MR2 engine ???) 3TC = 1.6 litre SOHC carburetted 3TG = 1.8 litre DOHC carburetted 3TGTE = 1.8 litre DOHC turbo injected (twin spark plugs) The 3TGTE is becoming very popular in australia for engine conversions, for celicas/corollas. they are available here for About $800, and can produce around 240 - 260hp with minimal modifications. The 4AGZE engines are also available, but are $1800 ea. Are the 4A and 3T engines fairly interchangable? Any idea how much power each of these produce? Is there any other 4A engines available?? (EG 2.0 litre turbo etc) If anyone's got a ready made list of Toyota engines that would be great. Thanks for any help, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au PS. The car I have at the moment it a '73 1300 ("R100") mazda with a 13B street port engine, but I want to get something newer and have just about had enough of rotarys. ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 09:21:11 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Welcome to new members I again have the priviledge to introduce some new members to the group! Welcome aboard, guys! Chris >>>>>>Charles Nguyen<<<<<<<< My name is Charles Nguyen and I have an '85 MR2... 85's only had the 1.6l engine. It is fully stock but I would like to add an aftermarket freeflow exhaust (not sure which one but I am leaning towards HKS) and maybe a K&N filter... I want to join to group to get advice on other mods... I live in Chicago. I do most of my own maintenance and am an avid car and motorcycle enthusiast... --- Charles Nguyen cnguyen@next3.corp.mot.com Motorola Corporate Offices (708) 576-8389 >>>>>>Louis Do<<<<<<<< Name : Louis Do Location : Redondo Beach, CA Vehicles : 87 Camry, 87 Corolla, 86 Isuzu Impulse, 78 IHC SCOUT II INTERNET address : do@etdesg.trw.com I am always interested in performance mods to any vehicles. Previously I've done performance mods to a Datsun 240Z, 510 and a Chevy Luv. I have been away from tinkering w/ cars for a while now so I am trying to catch up on performance parts. The 2 Toyota are stock and have about 53Kmiles each. I am planning to upgrade the exhaust and swapping in KYBs. I can't go too wild cause my wife drives them. The Impluse has KYBs and exhaust mods. It has 184Kmiles and going strong. This is my daily driver. and for the SCOUT, where do I start? Thanks, Louis >>>>>>Terry Egan<<<<<<<< Name Terry Egan Location Cupertino, CA, USA Model 1992 Land Cruiser Engine straight 6 - I don't know the model yet Mods K&N air filter,bug shield, plastic airflow diverters for driver & shotgun seats,fire extingusher email-address egan_t@measurex.com I read about this list on the Toyota emailing list. I am not a gearhead, but I'd like to know how to improve my 'Crusher as I'm not happy with its performance on-road (offroad is fine). Terry Egan >>>>>>Tom Marecek<<<<<<<< Name : Tom Marecek Location : Moscow, Idaho USA Model : 1992 4x4 ExtraCab V6 - SR5 Engine : V6 3VZE Mods : none ... yet :) Email addr: marec911@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu Thanks for adding me to your list. I'm looking forward to using it. Tom >>>>>>Tony Laanterman<<<<<<<< Name : Tony Laanterman (AKA Joe Woodsprite) Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Model : 1983 Celica ST Coupe Engine : 22R Mods : Only cosmetic so far, I've only owned it for a month. Email : lantera@kira.csos.orst.edu Woodsprite xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:35:18 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Latest Racing Results... Race Fans: OK, the new setup did much better--I placed 5th this week. This however isn't as important as the folks I met and the data I gathered from them. This last weekend they had a Mini-Stock (Modified 4 cylinder) special, 50 laps, $1000 to win. Big purses like this bring racers from around the state, and I was very interested to note that 4 of the racers were Toyota's from Miami. This is very significant in that I have never seen a Toyota in Mini-Stock competition--it is usually dominated by Pintos and Mustangs. Well, guess who took 3 of the top 4 places? Starlet, Celica, Corolla (with a Pinto in 2nd.) Needless to say, I got to know these guys--and pick their brains. BTW, Starlet fans, this guy was running a 3TC engine with the hemi-head, doing about 8800 rpm at the end of the straights, and never, NEVER, was even challenged for the lead. He started 1st, ended 1st, and at one point was about a 1/3 of a lap ahead of the number 2 car. Now (finally) the good stuff. These guys were all running stock running gear, stock engine bottom end, and only moderate roll cage stiffening (some of the pintos look like a jail cell by the time they get all of their roll bar in.) The only changes they made to the suspension were in the springs. They ran 300, 250, 125, 175 lb springs in the RF, LF, RR, LR. And the springs in front were just larger than the strut body, not the big 4" (or whatever) stock springs. I asked them why and got a beautiful answer. They completely cut off the lower spring bucket, grind the barrel smooth, and then use the base piece (not the 'u' piece) from two muffler clamps as a base for the spring to ride on. Cool, eh? This allows you to change your ride height with a jack and a socket wrench! They were using stock suspension parts, only they had moved the mount out a bit on the RF to give them their maximum of 5 degrees of negative camber. I stated that I was thinking about doing that, and they suggested just taking my s Another thing that I learned was that I was trying to run my 20R engine too fast with a stock cam. I told him about the problem I was having where I was shifting into/out-of second at the entrance/exit of the corners, and he said I was geared wrong. As you remember, I felt I was geared OK, but I just couldn't get power out of the engine above 5000 rpm. He pointed out that with all of his extensive modifications, he only gets torque up to about 7300 rpm, and that above 5000 rpm the stock 2xR engine is just making noise. Totally different from many stock Japanese 4 cylinders, which produce good torque up to 6000 rpm. Well, I hope someone can use this info. Before my next race, I am going to try to find a 6.7" rear-end in the 3.90:1 ratio range. Then, for the next race, I am going to order and install the spring rates I mentioned above, and have my spindle bent up by a coupla degrees. Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Supra air intake To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 07:58:19 -0500 (EST) First I want to thank everyone for the help with my questions about radio antennas and about Toyota model designations. I bought a replacement antenna mast for $18 from the local toyota dealer and put it in and now my antenna works great again. I haven't sent away for the new TRD catalogs yet, but I intend to soon. Second, I was poking around under the hood of my Supra (7M-GTE) trying to figure out where the engine air intake opening was. As far as I can tell, it's underneath the front right headlamp! There's a box-like enclosed space under the front right headlamp with only a few dime-sized holes in it for airflow. Unless I'm missing something it seems like it must be really hard for the turbo to suck air in through those holes. Has anyone else noticed this? Anyone have suggestions? I'd like to decrease the intake air restriction, but I really don't want to have to do welding or the like. Thanks in advance. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 08:40:28 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New Member (Can you believe it?) Here's our newest member, Matt Ledbetter! (Take it away, Matt....) >>>>>Matt Ledbetter<<<<< Name: Matt Ledbetter Location: NAU, Flagstaff AZ Model: '88 Supercharged MR2 Engine: 4AGZE Mods: HKS Exhaust I plan on adding the power-flo filter system and the "over-size" crank pulley from HKS in the next month and would like information on any other perfomance mods that I could improve my MR2 with. <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> There you have it folks. Any suggestions from you 4AGx/MR2 Gurus? Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Supra air intake To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Allen T "Koji" Kam) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 09:22:13 -0500 (EST) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) > The K&N filter i worked with the prottype replace the "stock" air filter > box. And is the normal application for such things. It goes from your either air > flow meter or where ever your air intake is and replaces it. so you get more of > a direct flow. See a picture in any K&N catalogue or new HKS or TRD out. > I can't explain it in the right words but it replaces the Air filter box. > Before they used to run a "mesh screen" gutting out the "stock filter" and > putting like a window type screen mesh over it. So big debris ddon't go in. Ande > use that for a fuler. This is why like Grand Nationals run without headlights > or such. Same theory. Hm, I don't think I made myself clear in my original posting. :) The box-like structure I was referring to was part of the front frame of the car itself. The the actual plastic box that the air filter is in has pipes leading both rearward to the turbo and frontward into the front frame of the car. This differs from my old Celica which just had the air filter box open up into the under-hood air space. The air filter box in the Supra has a large-diameter pipe that leads into a frame wall in front of the engine. I turned the headlights on, thus popping them up from their flush position, and looked into the crack beneath the headlight. It is that space beneath the headlight, where the headlight retracts into, that I was referring to. I can see a large-diameter opening in the frame wall in the rear section of that space that I'm pretty sure connects to the large-diameter pipe in the air filter box. However, there seems to be only a few small holes leading from outside the car into that enclosed headlight-storage space from which the air filter sucks air. I'm really not sure what I or an aftermarket supplier could do to improve intake airflow without resorting to welding. I suppose that an air intake underneath the hood, rather than in the front frame/bumper space where it is now, might be better than the current setup since the fan pulls air into the under-hood area, but what I'd really like is to have the air intake near a hole in the car body. Maybe I'll just pull the whole right front headlamp. :) Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 09:31:13 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Pinion Bearing > > Well, I have an '85 Supra that I purchased a little over a year ago. It > has always made a humming sound that seems to eminate from the right > rear wheel. This only occurs near speeds of 70 mph (~68 - 72). So, > sorry I can't help, but I guess I do have a similar problem. Does > anyone think I should have it checked out soon, or will the car survive > without messing with it. Thanks. > I have installed three third-members on my 82 Supra and they have all been noisy in the 68-72 mph area. The original one used to whine like a turbo, this progressively worsened until it sounded like a fire truck siren. I replaced that with a used third-member, but it whined loudly at any speed above ~55mph, so I replaced it with yet another used third-member that whines in the 68-72 mph range only under light to no load, when I accelerate the hum goes away. Based on my experience I would say that these differentials have a resonance at 68-72mph and the hum is normal (or I am very unlucky :-(. Of more concern to me of late is a growling noise that appears to be coming from my manual transmission when accelerating particularly in third or fifth gear from ~1700-2100 rpm. It disappears instantly above 2100 rpm and is worse when cold. I changed the tran oil with a synthetic 75w-90 and noticed no real improvement. Is my transmission going south anyone? Jon Hacker xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 12:05:20 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New member! Welcome another new member, Augustine Chin! >>>>>>Augustine Chin<<<<<<< Name : Augustine Chin Location: Columbus OH USA Model : 1990 Celica GT Engine : 2200cc and 135 hp Mods : none but hope to do some which is why I would like to join this group email : achin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu by the way, I am already subscribing to the toyota newsgroup, but I am interested in learning about how to modify my Celica to bring out more power without doing harm to the engine. Augustine xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 10:57:06 PST From: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Supra air intake Cc: edwang%up171@lsil.com Yes, I noticed same thing on my PU truck as well as two of my Cressidas. All the intake are lead into the front body-frame hollow section near or behind headlight. This is actually better than suck air directly from engine open sapce because the air the that hollow section is more or less still the the air in engine compartment, (air is moving aroound by fan). We knew that if air is moving fast it has lower pressure thus less dense that the air that is not moving at all. Also, another advantage of this is that most of the particles in the air will drop before they can turn around and get into the hollow section, thus less dust/sand/ bugs/whatsoeverelse got sucked into air filter area. I compared my toy truck's air filter with my friend's 929 air filter, my truck's air filter is cleaner, althrough my truck sees more miles/dust/sand/mud/bugs_in_night_driving. The 929's air intake is directly pointing towards front and right behind front hood's open gap. I don't have any data for a K&N filter, although I'd love to try it someday. Regards. Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 edwang@up171.lsil.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: arvidj@aol.com To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 14:54:28 EST Subject: MR2 Oil Filter Opportunities This may be of interest to other '93 MR2 Turbo owners who change their own oil and filter, and possibly some who have it done at the dealer. You must be VERY CAREFUL about which filter you put on the car. "Well Jedlicka, you twit, that's obvious" is the interest groups collective thought. "Determining 'correctness' is the problem" is my response. Even as I type, I am changing the oil in the MR2. I had the oil and three oil filters on hand so, "no problem!!". I had purchased the filters at different times during the summer, but all from the same Toyota dealers parts department. None of the filters had the same part number as the one I took off the car, and one of the filters did not match the other two. A call to the dealer reveals that: Toyota's "Fast Moving Parts" catalog indicates the '93 MR2 Turbo takes a 90080-91058. This replaces the 90080-91034 (which is what was on the car), and interchanges with the 90915-10001. Note that this appears to be the WRONG FILTER FOR THE CAR. It even states that on the outside of the filter box: "S Series (exc. 3S-GTE)". Toyota's parts fiche indicates that a 08922-02001 is the filter to use. This replaces the 90915-03004, plus possibly other filters. I had two 90915-03004's on hand, neither one of which indicates a "3S-GTE" motor. One of the boxes indicates several "4" series motors, the other box doesn't specifiy anything. The only difference I can find is the 90915-03004 is taller than the 90080-91034 and 90080-91058. I put the 90915-03004 on the car, and will replace the 90080-91058 during the next stop at the dealer. The dealer was quite good natured about all my questions. "I expect problems like this with transmission bearings, not with oil filters." Thinking he will use the winning Lottery numbers the next time he buys a filter, Arvid xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 18:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Supra air intake Edward writes: Yes, I noticed same thing on my PU truck as well as two of my Cressidas. All the intake are lead into the front body-frame hollow section near or behind headlight. This is actually better than suck air directly from engine open sapce because the air the that hollow section is more or less still the the air in engine compartment, (air is moving aroound by fan). We knew that if air is moving fast it has lower pressure thus less dense that the air that is not moving at all. -+- Ummmmm. Actually, they snorkel air to the intake to minimize the air intake temperature and hence kick up the mpg a fraction. As cars have evolved, the engine compartment has become a crowded place. Also, the push towards better aerodynamics both up front and underneath have reduced the amount of fresh air that can get into the engine compartment. Thus it has become basically a hot and potentially stagnant air pocket. The snorkel helps placate the EPA wienies basically. On a dyno or at cruising speeds, having one is a plus. But when your accel- erating, you'll be fighting it as well as the filter. On older cars, like my Celica, sandwiching the air filter between two plates and slapping it on the carb produced a noticable improvement in acceleration. Cold starting went to hell and the smog check was tough to pass, but that's another story . . . -+- Edward continues: Also, another advantage of this is that most of the particles in the air will drop before they can turn around and get into the hollow section, thus less dust/sand/bugs/whatsoeverelse got sucked into air filter area. -+- Agreed, but its fortuitous. -+- And he closes: [snip] I don't have any data for a K&N filter, although I'd love to try it someday. -+- What cracks me up about these K&N's is that they use Jurassic auto technology. Wire screens/cotton gauze coated in oil. I remember working with Grandpa on his 1940's or so Pontiac, pulling out and cleaning the wire mesh drum air filter. I'm not knocking K&N or the concept, it works. It's just amusing when the filters are advertised as "state-of-the-art" and "latest technology". Have a good one folks!! Clark '78 Celica my hobby '89 944s2 my burden xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Supra air intake To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 22:12:22 -0500 (EST) Interesting thoughts all. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but what I'd _like_ to do ( :> ) is put a NACA duct in the hood right over the air filter and replace the air filter with an HKS PowerFlow unit. That way air moving over the hood is sucked into the NACA duct and flows directly into the PowerFlow. _That_ would be neat. :) Aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 16:36:00 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Choices for a New Car (*sigh*) I'm in the process of buying a new mode of transportation. Any I deers ? I'm currently driving about a 1987 MR-2 5 Speed. And Gonna test drive the 1988 Supercharged version next week. My choices are from as follows. 1987 MR-2 1988 Supercharged MR-2 1987 Toyota Turbo Truck 1988 4-Runner 1987 Corolla GTS I know Turbo is the way to go this my choices with the Turbo Truck and 4 runner And i can't afford the Turbo MR-2 yet since i;m a PUS (poor unemployed student) I also do some minor carrying of equiptment such as Video camers and tripods and PA systems including amps and speakers. This sorta rules out the MR-2's cause of minimum trunk space. The thing I also need to keep is my points standings and racing competitiveness. Thats why i'm opting for the Supra. I'm looking at either 1987 turbo supra or a 1991 Turbo Supra. Any insights from the differences in driving? I don't prefer a supra since i'm slightly small. 5'6" and about 120lbs This car seems BIG to me but not that bad. I would love the NEW Supra but thats slightly way out of the way for me. My other choices non toyota though are a Subaru SVX and a RX-7 Turbo II. These i hardly consider choices but nice cars and fun to drive. Help me with any insights please !!! Thanks ! -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 16:36:58 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Hoppy Thanksgiving ! For all your folkes on here ! Aloha and Happy thanksgiving from the land down under where palm trees sway (*sorry for taking up bandwidth*) -allen t "koji" kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Choices for a New Car To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Allen T "Koji" Kam) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 08:14:14 -0500 (EST) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) > My choices are from as follows. > > 1987 MR-2 > 1988 Supercharged MR-2 > 1987 Toyota Turbo Truck > 1988 4-Runner > 1987 Corolla GTS ... > Thats why i'm opting for the Supra. I'm looking at either 1987 turbo supra or a > 1991 Turbo Supra. Any insights from the differences in driving? > > I don't prefer a supra since i'm slightly small. 5'6" and about 120lbs > This car seems BIG to me but not that bad. I would love the NEW Supra but > thats slightly way out of the way for me. Hi Allen. I love my Supra, but it is a fairly hefty car. You do get some benefits from the weight (power everything, adjustable suspension, targa roof, etc.), which I find to be a quite acceptable compromise. However, it sounds like for your needs the Celica All-Trac Turbo might be perfect. Have you considered that car? Aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 09:00:31 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Choices for a New Car > 1987 MR-2 > 1988 Supercharged MR-2 > 1987 Toyota Turbo Truck > 1988 4-Runner > 1987 Corolla GTS > I would go for the 88 supercharged MR2! Especially since all this talk about the 4AGZ block being stronger than the 4AGE block. I think someone said the 4AGZ block was used for formula atlantic and could produce 220 BHP. Also, if you go this route, I believe next year Formula-A is going with fuel injection so there should be a neat rush of parts (carbs, manifolds, etc) for these puppies! (Disclaimer: I am VERY MR2 supercharged biased - maybe someday I'll own one....but by then they'll be about 20 years old! Oh well....) regards, fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 28 Nov 93 13:49:27 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Turbo Magazine If you don't subscribe to the Turbo Magazine then the January issue that came out about 3 weeks ago has the Suzuki Swift running Pikes Peak and it setting a record. This how ever was shortly lasted as it was beaten later that day. RS Akimoto has an exhaust system in there for the NEW Supra. I would like to say the day after my Turbo Magazine came in, and I saw that article. I went down to KMA and saw the same exhaust that just came in for Pat's Supra. will keep you informed. Its a nice chrome exhaust !!!!! -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 04:25:03 HST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Carb VS Fuel Injection.... Does anyone have any REAL preferences between the two ? Can anyone state the advatanges of the two ? or the major differences ? Just Pondering... -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: bahrr@pictel.com Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 10:07:32 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Carb VS Fuel Injection Good morning all! I hope people had a good Thanksgiven! There are a number of real differences which might be important depending on your application. First there are a number of FI systems, some of which look a lot like carbs: - there is a system which simply has a primary injector located in a plenum - similar to the earily 3.0l Nissan engins ( 1986) here instead of a vacumm to draw the fuel into the engine the injectore simply squirts it. - There is a port injector system where gas is fired just before the intake valve(s) - several flavors here - several injectors fire simultaniously - similar to the NON turbocharged 91 & > MR2's - injectors fire one at a time - similar to the Turbocharged 91 & > MR2's Carbs are cheaper and easier to maintain ( read that as simpler) - i.e.it is not very difficult to rebuild one. Carbs can produce a lot of horsepower but they are impossible to tune ( IMHO) to the extent that you can tune a FI system. There are several issues which are important to high performance engines which are not very well addressed by carbs - air density, air temperature, how well atomized the air/fuel mix is, the distance the air/fuel mix has to travel before entering the combustion chamber, ( as opposed to simply the air assuming port injection) Problems with FI systems include managing the engine in extreme performance conditions - like dragsters where the volumn of gas/fuel controlled is VERY high Cost of system - including repair suseceptability to water and other contaminants I have had cars with both Mechnical FI ( Porsche 911e) and electronic FI systems It used to be that people perferred the mechanical system - but this could have been due to tuneability. I am interested in information on the MR2 Turbo ( 1991) FI system above and beyond what is in the factory manuals! Ray B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 05:30:24 HST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: CARB's VS EFI (Reply) >Good morning all! Aloha.... >I hope people had a good Thanksgiven! Went well... Had a Big Toyota pow wow down here. >There are a number of real differences which might be important depending >on your application. >First there are a number of FI systems, some of which look a lot like carbs: > - there is a system which simply has a primary injector located > in a plenum - similar to the earily 3.0l Nissan engins ( 1986) > here instead of a vacumm to draw the fuel into the engine the > injectore simply squirts it. I belive the Honda PFI or something is like this also. Good theory and design. > - There is a port injector system where gas is fired just before > the intake valve(s) - several flavors here > - several injectors fire simultaniously - similar to the > NON turbocharged 91 & > MR2's > - injectors fire one at a time - similar to the Turbocharged > 91 & > MR2's >Carbs are cheaper and easier to maintain ( read that as simpler) - i.e.it is >not very difficult to rebuild one. Rebuild kits do cost like $10 or so per carb. True. >Carbs can produce a lot of horsepower but they are impossible to tune ( IMHO) >to the extent that you can tune a FI system. Without nit picking and going into Haltech systems. This is TRUE. >There are several issues which are important to high performance engines >which are not very well addressed by carbs - air density, air temperature, >how well atomized the air/fuel mix is, the distance the air/fuel mix has to >travel before entering the combustion chamber, ( as opposed to simply the air >assuming port injection) Sheesh...I gotta go to class more often ! I guess i'm spolied. I can tune my car on friday night and run it for about all week and its still in "sync" at the end of the week. >Problems with FI systems include managing the engine in extreme performance >conditions - like dragsters where the volumn of gas/fuel controlled is VERY >highCost of system - including repair suseceptability to water and other >contaminants However like you sorta stresed. The EFI is one LESS problem to consider. Plus the avialbility of BIGGER injectors can also change this. A computer does all your tuning. >I have had cars with both Mechnical FI ( Porsche 911e) and electronic FI >systems.It used to be that people perferred the mechanical system - >but this could have been due to tuneability. >I am interested in information on the MR2 Turbo ( 1991) FI system above and >beyond what is in the factory manuals! A potentiometer or what ebber its called can be added to "richen" or lean your EFI. Thats the most common and first added thing. A good location mounted in your dash or in your neat little ash tray in the cig lighter is a stealth location. I belive HKS did about $3000 in mods and made their MR-2 go into the 12's with minimum work. What exactly are you looking for ? >Ray B. Aloha Ray... - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / 5Zigen / HKS / MSD / SSR / TRD / Toyo / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 14:48:15 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New Member (Sort of...) Ed Wang finally got an opportunity to send us his me/mine/mods info. Welcome aboard, Ed. Chris PS: As you add those bigger tires, consider going to a lower gear (higher ratio) in your front and rear differential. Big bucks, but your drive train will thank you for it, your performance will improve, and your speedometer can be correct again. >>>>>>>>>Edward Wang<<<<<<<<<<< Name : Edward Wang Location : San Jose California Model : 1985 Camry, 1991 Pickup, 4wd V6 5-sp. Engine : 3VZE (?) V6 Mods : Changed stock 225/75R15 to 31"x10.5R15 with 15x7 alloy rims. email : edwang@lsil.com Currently I don't have any special mods, but in the future I might put in R9000 shocks, minimium lifting to fit 32" tires (maybe 33"). After warranty is over I would consider engine mods to boost power, but I don't have a clue yet and am willing to learn. Thanks in advance and will see you all soon on net. Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 >>>>>><<<<<< xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 12:25:43 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Stealth NOS Locations. >Koji: >> A potentiometer or what ebber its called can be added to "richen" or >lean >> your EFI. Thats the most common and first added thing. A good location >> mounted in your dash or in your neat little ash tray in the cig >>lighter >> is a stealth location. >You been lookin' in my Mazda-rati again? That is _exactly_ what the >guys that used to race mine did. They pulled the stock lighter apart, >cut off the back, soldered on the potentiometer, and stuck it back in >place. Voila, instant richness adjustment, totally stealth! How high of a potentiometer do you have ? 20k ? 16k ? It does help a lot on the top end. >(Now, if you can guess where the nitrous line was installed you win a >free date with _both_ of my sisters!) IF >I< were the installer I would do One of two things. First of all put the NOS feeding line in one of the MANY "Emission" hoses and run it via that a way. Thats the MOST stealth installlation I have done or seen. Its copied off the Toyota Performance Handbook I belive with the GTS in there. (Which recently sold for some $9000 down here -boggle-) The second thing i would do is add a small dip switch and locate it somewhere on the dash or even a "stock" dash switch like a rear defogger switch, and use that for my activation line. I've done an installation using this system where the "windshield wiper" button is used. (push button get it?) This was TOTALLY stealth. Did I win ? Huh huh ? ;) >Chris BTW: I've just aquired a 1988 Mazda 626 4 door. Either I'm gonna drop in the 20B motor from japan or trade it in for a 1988 Cressida or higher and drop in the turbo. I'm looking at the 1988 Cressida so i can utilitize the 5MG motor turbo system HKS "has" for the car since they are blowing it out and I can always use it later. (I'm jus a Chris wannabe !) - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan / BFG / 5Zigen / HKS / Mikuni / MSD / SSR / TRD / Toyo / Yokohama | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 04:41:29 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Cressida Mods >Allen, > >>BTW: 1988 Cressida or higher and drop in the Turbo. > >I am picking up a 1987 cressida this week, as my winter car. What's the >scoop on the turbo systen HKS has for this car? How much are they asking >for it? The System is actually for the Supra model. The pistions cost about $100 each and the system from HKS is about $2000 or so. HKS 1 uses a 5M block just with a 7M head and been bored out. That might be the cheaper option to go. I'm researching it more at this moment. Will get back to you. I like the cressida and stealh looks. So far for the modifications that I might do is change the mountings for the springs and put on the Supra ones. (if they aren't already interchangeable) And so my suspension will be "supra" Does anyone know for sure ? >Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, >Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, >Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 BTW Roger, the Turbo Magazine in Jan should please you or your friend with the Suzuki. How ever...I forgot FORGOT....is an understatement..but the developer from Calimini the Suzuki Calamini ? err...something like that is the same enginner whom pulled Mikuni out of its slump with the Mukuni set up for the Harley Bikes. Calamini should be the place for your friend to reference to. If wished or desiered i shall get a current name and number for him to contact. -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan / BFG / 5Zigen / HKS / Mikuni / MSD / SSR / TRD / Toyo / Yokohama | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 04:59:44 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: NOS Installation Take Duex >Koji: >> IF >I< were the installer I would do One of two things. First of all put the >> NOS feeding line in one of the MANY "Emission" hoses and run it via >> that a way. >> The second thing i would do is add a small dip switch and locate it >> somewhere on the dash or even a "stock" dash switch like a rear defogger >> switch, and use that for my activation line. I've done an installation >> using this system where the "windshield wiper" button is used. >> (push button get it?) This was TOTALLY stealth. >> >> Did I win ? Huh huh ? ;) >Very Close! In the Mazda, they use a solenoid to control the idle-up >for the A/C. Actually I havent looked under the hood for a while. I used to tune the car before for my grandfather and it had numerous problems. I've done a lot of work on it already (*sigh*) One nice thing is that Idle-up for the A/C. For my corolla i had to crosscheck a chevrolet part and use its generic replacement for my corolla to idle semi decent when the a/c was turned on. It works great but cost me something like $50 just to have a smooth idle while the a/c was on. >>(Look for this on yours, at the top of the fire wall just in front of the >> driver.) This jewel is just an electronically controlled switch that >>is mounted to the fire wall, and it re-routes some of the vacuum, >>allowing the engine to idle up under load. My buddy just pulled the >>hose off, ran a drill just larger than his NOS line through the entire >>body of the solenoid and the firewall, and installed the line. Good installation. Lots of thought ! >>Used the A/C switch for the activation line. Cool, eh? Actually that would be have been a guess, however I personally don't like REACHING for buttons to push. Like my potentiometer I'm trying to find serveral places to mount it incase of going through turns and such and don't have to shuffle steer as much. I'm looking for a nice right hand near the shifter but the left hand side has several holes nicely for a install. I prefer a knob or switch to be on my driving side. Any thoughts about this ? >>(OK, you win the date, now you have to come and collect! :-)) Actually, I might be up there sooner then you think ! muhahahahahahahha >> BTW: Trade it in and get a 1988 Cressida or higher and >> drop in the turbo. I'm looking at the 1987 Cressida so i can utilitize >> the 5MG motor turbo system HKS "has" for the car since they are blowing >> it out and I can always use it later. (I'm jus a Chris wannabe !) >Cool, family car, eh? I'll race you in my '89 Cutlass Ciera sometime! >Actually, one of my sisters has the '90 626, and I've blown some >firebirds away with that baby. What is the scoop with your previous >car? You never explained that to me, btw. Just dumped it all of the >sudden, or something? Let me know, I'm curious. My pervious car I'm being "forced" to sell by my parents. I still live at home and my parents have been TRYING HARD to have me get rid of my car since ts "down" more time then its "up" The work and all I'm planning to build another but with rack and pinon steering. Any preferences or major differences again with this ? I'm keeping my suspension and my exhaust, all else can be replaced and my car is 5 years SERIOUS racing and old techonology. I have to move up to a multi valve motor with a OHC at least. Techonology on a Fast Track...and I;m not there ! >BTW, you've got to change your .sig now that you have a 4 door Mazda. >How's this look? *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Avoid Death....Speed is Dangerous !! 1988 Mazda 626 | | Better let up before you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5-Speed Family Sedan | | Gerber/Playschool/Humpty-Dumpty/Mother Goose/Disney/Barney/Geritol | | V-8's are too fast...and i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How BORING do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* >(heh heh heh! Jes' Kiddin'!) Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Avoid Death....Speed is Dangerous !! 1988 Mazda 626 | | Better let up before you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5-Speed Family Sedan | | Gerber/Playschool/Humpty-Dumpty/Mother Goose/Disney/Barney/Geritol | | V-8's are too fast...and i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How BORING do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 11:40:56 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: New Member--Greg March On Nov 30, 1993, cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) wrote: |Another new member! Welcome Gregory March. I have included Gregory's |mail header so somebody can tell me what X-Face is. I tried running it |through the xfaces program and didn't get anything. Does this give us a |picture of Greg? Well, now that I've been introduced, I get to ask questions, right? :-) I'll answer one first... The XFace header is used by Rich Burridge's "faces" server program. Basically, you use it like xbiff and similar tools. It will display the "picture" contained in the header if one exists, otherwise it will displayed a stored picture for the person or a default picture. The XFace header in my mail *is* a picture of my head and neck. Pick up the faces package to see who I am! :-) You can find out where it's available through archie (send me mail if you don't know about archie). I believe that the faces project started at a Usenix confrence back in the late 80's. Everybody at the confrence could have their ID scanned and stored in the master database (also available through the internet). |Anyway, Welcome Greg. Sorry that very few of us on this list are able |to afford a 94 4-Runner, so we might not be too current in that area, |but I think you will find us to be a fairly knowledgeable lot anyway. Who said *I* could afford it? :-) (Un)fortunately, for my needs, it was the best one avaible. It *is* a nice suv. So, on to my question. I'd like to get another 20-40 horsepower out of the motor. I'd like to hear about all sorts of mods, simple, complex, cheap, expensive, warranty voiding, warranty nonvoiding, and the type dealers "can't see". Also, I was required by NYS law to purchase the CA/NY emmisions package. Anybody know how much that's gonna hurt my alreay low 150hp? |Welcome aboard. Thanks! greg ------ Gregory F. March march@tudor.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 15:09:52 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: 80 Corolla with timing problem Well, I was just going to send this to Koji, since he has an '80 Corolla Trueno, but I kinna need as many good answers as soon as I can get them, so I'll open it up to the list. Got a little problem, or rather a friend does, with his '80 Corolla. I haven't looked at it yet, but I think from what he says it might be a timing problem. What engine does that car have? Does that engine have a timing chain or a belt? Could it have slipped? If so, could I just re-align it? How is that done? If it has slipped, does that mean the chain/belt is shot, or is it adjustable? If the chain/belt needs to be replaced, how hard is it? Bottom line: What can I do to get this thing running well enough for this friend to sell it? The car has 218 K miles on it, still has the original clutch, and he _just_ replaced the original alternator. Any ideas you can shoot this way would be appreciated. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx