Toyota-Mods Postings Nov 1993

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ _______ ^^^ ^^^ ,' - _ ^^^ ^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^ ^^^ , ' | ^^^ ^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^ ^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^ ^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ P O S T I N G S Nov 1993 ^^^ ^^^ --------------------------- ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: New Member! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 13:57:00 PST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > >Introducing our newest list member, Jon Hacker... > >> My name is Jon Hacker and I am an electrical engineer at Bellcore in >> Red Bank, NJ. I have a 1982 Toyota Supra GTS with 110,000 miles. I >> am currently rebuilding a salvaged head for this car. Once complete, Correct me if I am wrong. The Supra came in two models, the Luxury (LT) and sports (flares, bigger tires, recardo like seats, etc). The celicas came in three models: ST, GT, and GTS Does this guy really have an '82 Toyota Celica GTS or an '82 Toyota Supra (sports)? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 16:58:24 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: New Member! > From: "" > > >> My name is Jon Hacker and I am an electrical engineer at Bellcore in > >> Red Bank, NJ. I have a 1982 Toyota Supra GTS with 110,000 miles. I > >> am currently rebuilding a salvaged head for this car. Once complete, > > Correct me if I am wrong. The Supra came in two models, the Luxury (LT) and > sports (flares, bigger tires, recardo like seats, etc). > > The celicas came in three models: ST, GT, and GTS > > Does this guy really have an '82 Toyota Celica GTS or an '82 Toyota Supra > (sports)? > I was thinking about the same thing. But, I remembered that the Supra's original name was "Celica Supra." So, I immediately resisted the temptation of sending a mail to all about this. Does anyone know? -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 17:32:39 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Magazine info & Misc.. An interesting publication I came across recently is entitled GrassRoots Motorsports, main theme is autcrossing. Info as follows: GRASSROOTS Motorsports P.O Box 5907 Dayton Beach Florida 32118 PRICE: 3.95 US 4.95 CANADA online compsurve address is: 72123,2625 Any one interested in a limited slip differential for their car (FWD or RWD) might want to check out CRE RT. 122 Worcester Rd. Barre, MA 01005 508-355-2864 (sorry no fax listed) They make limited slip differentials for the more popular cars. They will even make one if you send them an old diff (They only need a particular part of the diff.). Cost is $500 to $550, which is cheaper than an LSD from TRD. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 03:31:35 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: New Member! Celica - Supra of the early years is Called a Selica-Supra GTS. You are Correct Errol. This first year (maybe i think) has the digtal dash board and the flag ship of the new Supra's. Supra was dropped after the 1985 Supra Model i belive. I Think he has a Selica GTS with the fender trim and the sports seats and the 14 x 6 1/2 aluminum rims. Celica is the basis of the Supra since 1980 when the 5MG was First introduced. (the 5m is used in HKS-1 btw just for food for thought) the name was changed in 1985 for the "books" i belive. The Corolla Tercel till 1983 was another example of this. -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: New Member! Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 9:23:55 PST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam > >Celica - Supra of the early years is Called a Selica-Supra GTS. You are >Correct Errol. This first year (maybe i think) has the digtal dash board >and the flag ship of the new Supra's. The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. >Supra was dropped after the 1985 Supra >Model i belive. This is a bit confusing. I assume you mean the Celica name was dropped from the "Celica-Supra" name. Gary (whowasreallyintocelicasandsuprasbackthen) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 13:48:48 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica-Supra > The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". > Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, > but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, > with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! In 1982 there was Celica Supra GTS Celica Supra L The L was the luxury model with digital dash. The GTS had the 225-60HR14 tires, fender flares, nice seats, limited slip diff, and an analog dash. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:08:45 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com > From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > The Celica's in the states were always called "Celica"'s not "Selica". > > Also, yes there were two Celica's at that time: The Celica and the Celica-Supra, > > but most people distinguished the two as either the Celica or Supra. Now, > > with this terminology, I don't think there was a Supra GTS. > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > In 1982 there was Celica Supra GTS > Celica Supra L > > The L was the luxury model with digital dash. The GTS had the 225-60HR14 > tires, fender flares, nice seats, limited slip diff, and an analog > dash. > Hey Jonathan: Which engine came in this car? -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:12:56 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Supra Rear-ends (was New Member) Okay, Gary (long distinguished Supra/Celica title left out) and Jon (I own one)...I want to get a Supra Rear end with the live (solid) rear axle _and_ the limited slip differential...What year and what model should I be looking for? Was the 82 Supra L a solid axle? Were any other years Solid Axle and LSD? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:14:03 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Oops... Oops...I meant did the 82 GTS have a Solid rear axle? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:22:15 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Truly a Supra > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > > > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > -Errol. > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > Jon > Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:00:24 PST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! Hmmmm... Ok, if you own one then you have the final word. I know there was the L type (luxury) and the sports, but no where in the brochures was it called the GTS. Very interesting. > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > -Errol. > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > Jon > ** Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. That's definately true. Chris --> I do not know if the Celica GTS has a solid axel (I should), but the Supra "GTS" or Supra Sport has LSD. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Truly a Supra To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:54:28 -0500 (EST) > From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) > > > From: hacker@patagonia (Jonathan Hacker 21420) > > > > > > > > Well, in fact there was a GTS because I own one! > > Hmmmm... Ok, if you own one then you have the final word. I know there > was the L type (luxury) and the sports, but no where in the brochures was > it called the GTS. Very interesting. > > > > eyoung1@cosmos writes: > > > Hey Jonathan: > > > > > > Which engine came in this car? > > > > > > -Errol. > > > > > > > Both models came with the 2.8L DOHC inline 6 (5MGE). > > > > Jon > > > > ** Well, I guess from this response, this is TRULY a Supra. > > That's definately true. > > Chris --> I do not know if the Celica GTS has a solid axel (I should), > but the Supra "GTS" or Supra Sport has LSD. > > Gary The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier years... Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Celica Supras vs. Supras Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 10:56:52 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com FYI. Supras were Celica Supras through the the first half of 1986. A 1986 Supra is a Celica Supra, but a 1986.5 Supra is just a Supra. 1982-1986 Celica Supras (MA61) had 2.8 liter, 12 valve engines (5MGE) Body work was based on the Celica, but had a longer hood. 1986.5-1993 Supras (MA70) had 3.0 liter, 24 valve engines (7MGE) Body work was Supra only, no Celica derivation. I don't know much about pre-1982 or 1994-onward Supras. My Supra was made in October of 1985, and all the documentation for it, including the owners manual and factory service manual call it a '1986.' I don't know how the documention is labeled for a 1986.5 Supra. For all I know, it might also read '1986.' I think the only difference between 1985 and 1986 Celica Supras is the third-brake light present on the 1986 models. It is possible that some 1985's have the third-brake light, I don't know. The fact that my Celica Supra is a 1986 leads to a great deal of confusion with mechanics. I usually have to say something like: 'It's a 1986, which is like a 1985, not a 1987, it has a 2.8 liter engine.' If Toyota hadn't changed the engine size between 1986 and 1986.5, I'd almost never be able to tell mechanics what type of car I have. Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Re: Celica Supras vs. Supras To: danapple@vicor.com Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:26:58 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > FYI. Supras were Celica Supras through the the first half of 1986. A > 1986 Supra is a Celica Supra, but a 1986.5 Supra is just a Supra. > > 1982-1986 Celica Supras (MA61) had 2.8 liter, 12 valve engines (5MGE) > Body work was based on the Celica, but had a longer hood. > 1986.5-1993 Supras (MA70) had 3.0 liter, 24 valve engines (7MGE) > Body work was Supra only, no Celica derivation. > > I don't know much about pre-1982 or 1994-onward Supras. > > My Supra was made in October of 1985, and all the documentation for > it, including the owners manual and factory service manual call it a > '1986.' > > I don't know how the documention is labeled for a 1986.5 Supra. For > all I know, it might also read '1986.' > > I think the only difference between 1985 and 1986 Celica Supras is the > third-brake light present on the 1986 models. It is possible that > some 1985's have the third-brake light, I don't know. > > The fact that my Celica Supra is a 1986 leads to a great deal of > confusion with mechanics. I usually have to say something like: 'It's > a 1986, which is like a 1985, not a 1987, it has a 2.8 liter engine.' > > If Toyota hadn't changed the engine size between 1986 and 1986.5, I'd > almost never be able to tell mechanics what type of car I have. > > Dan. I have owned both an 85 Supra and an 89 Supra. You are right, There is such a beast as an 1986.5 Supra which is the 24 valve engine and later body style. If your meachanic can not tell the difference, tell him! 1986.5 was the cut off of the older body style to the newer one, As you ALL know now there is even the newer new body style which is called the 1994 model and has all the bells and whistle and is still heavy! Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 12:51:39 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com > abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu writes: > The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the > independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier > years... I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a semi-trailing arm rear suspension. You'd have to go to pre-1982 Celicas or Supras to get a solid axle. But, if the diff is 7.5", you could probably use a 1982- Supra LSD in it. > Aaron Buhr Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:15:11 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: danapple@vicor.com Subject: Re: Truly a Supra Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a > semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. > > I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras > through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a > semi-trailing arm rear suspension. > > You'd have to go to pre-1982 Celicas or Supras to get a solid axle. > But, if the diff is 7.5", you could probably use a 1982- Supra LSD in > it. > Dan... I think he is right that only the Celica GTS versions (the ones with fender flares and 225 60HR14 tires) had the IRS. I am going to check this out tonight when I get home. Jon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Truly a Supra To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:18:33 -0500 (EST) > > abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu writes: > > > The '83 Celica GT-S (one of which I had before my Supra) had the > > independent MacPherson strut rear suspension. Don't know about earlier > > years... > > I think you might be confused. The rear end was almost certainly a > semi-trailing arm. The front is a MacPherson strut. I might be confused about the rear being MacPherson struts. I thought that when I had my suspension replaced (after hopping a curb sideways) they put struts on all 4 corners, but I could be mis-remembering. But read on... > I believe all Celicas (including Supras) between 1982-1985 (Supras > through 1986) had a MacPherson strut front suspension and a > semi-trailing arm rear suspension. This info is remembered from either the '83 Car & Driver or '83 Road & Track review of the '83 Celica GT-S (I have both reviews): the _GT-S_ (as opposed to _GT_) option for Celicas was not offered until '83. The review specifically stated that one of the items included in the GT-S package was the Supra rear suspension, which leads me to believe the other Celicas (ST & GT?) had a different suspension. The other things the GT-S adds are the Supra seats and fuel injection, at least in the '83 model year. The reviewers concluded the GT-S was essentially a Supra but with the 2.4 22RE engine. In addition, I thought those rods poking up into the luggage area in the back of the hatchback indicated the presence of MacPherson struts, which apparently need quite a bit of vertical space. I'll look the stuff up again when I get home. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:23:53 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Uhmmmm...I _know_ I am confused. Here's what I am sure about...(I will refer to the Celica and the Supra as separate cars, regardless of the year. I think this is easier.) The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. Unfortunately for me, it did not have the LSD or the larger 7.5 inch differential. (BTW, I don't think any Celica had an LSD.) An LSD for the T series 6.7" Differential (Celica) is $700 from TRD. The LSD for the F series 7.5" differential (Supra) is $500 or so from TRD, and they are available from a number of sources (including Reider Racing [thank you very much, Koji]) for much less. I was quoted $200 for a Supra rear-end from a local junk yard. Since most junk yards don't have a clue (nor do they care) about what car has what differential, I am hoping to get a solid axle F series Rearend _with_ the stock LSD. I am not even particular about what I pull it from (pardon the dangling participle.) The F series was used in the 2wd truck and the Cressida, as well. I am sure that if I had my TRD catalog handy, I could find out, but what year did the Supra go to the IRS? And who knows if any of the Supra solid axles had the LSD (or any of the other vehicles I mentioned.) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 16:29:57 -0500 (EST) > > Uhmmmm...I _know_ I am confused. Here's what I am sure about...(I will > refer to the Celica and the Supra as separate cars, regardless of the > year. I think this is easier.) > > The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a > step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" > body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Unfortunately for me, it did not have the LSD or the larger 7.5 inch > differential. (BTW, I don't think any Celica had an LSD.) I'm pretty sure my '83 Celica GT-S had rear drums, so I can't believe the ST & GT had discs... I really need to check those reviews again. Also, I think you're right about no LSD for any Celicas, at least pre-'86 Celicas. It may have even been optional on Supras... > I am sure that if I had my TRD catalog handy, I could find out, but what > year did the Supra go to the IRS? And who knows if any of the Supra > solid axles had the LSD (or any of the other vehicles I mentioned.) Supras had the IRS in '82, 'sfar as I know. Available on Celicas in the GT-S package starting in '83. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "" To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:00:45 PST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > >The Celica was Solid rear axle up _through_ 82. The 82 is a bit of a >step child for the Celica, since it had the new "square or triangular" >body style and new rear disc brakes, but the old solid axle. Chris, The '82 celica does not have rear disc brakes. Only the front has disc brakes. The rear were drums. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:37:15 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: discs on '82 Celica/etc >The '82 celica does not have rear disc brakes. Only the front has disc >brakes. The rear were drums. Darn it, bad info again! Chris PS...I am _so_close_ to getting our scanner running, and am using a picture of me with the old '78 Celica in Victory Lane (4th place, actually) as a test picture. I don't know if anyone would be interested, (and since I am sure not everyone would be I will not mass post it,) but I will send it to whomever wants to see what a $150 race car looks like. Let me know. PPS...Hopefully, I'll have some pics of the '81 Celica when I start racing it again a week from Friday... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 17:42:54 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Hydraulic lash adjuster removal I have been disassembling the head of a 5MGE Supra engine (DOHC 12 valve inline six). I am having great difficulty sliding the hydraulic lash adjusters out of their respective bores in the head. It seems that a thin layer of varnish builds up half way up the bore wall and catches on the lower lip of adjuster preventing its removal. I have to tease it out with a lot of patience and WD-40. Its taking me about 30-45 mins per adjuster and I'm getting frustrated. Once the varnish is removed they slide in and out effortlessly. Any ideas on this one? Jon Hacker xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Celica and Supra rear-ends Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 14:57:08 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This rear suspension stuff is getting too confusing. I'm way more confused than when I started the day. But, in my Supra, the two humps in the hatchback area are the shock-absorber mounting points. A MacPherson strut has the coil spring coaxial with the shock. The semi-trailing arm in the 1986 Celica Supra has non-coaxial shocks and springs. In a MacPherson strut, the strut provides location for the wheel. In the semi-trailing arm, the spring and shock don't locate the wheel, but the arm does. Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 09:50:01 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Celica/Supra thread First, thank you 4AGx and 3TC folks for bearing with all of this Celica/Supra stuff hogging the bandwidth. I suppose some of your delete keys were getting a workout. Now, in order to clean up my inbox without losing any of this valuable info, I have developed a little table, below. I know I am risking generating another mail storm, but I have never seen this info presented so concisely anywhere else. And since we are going to publish this stuff some day, we need to get together and get it right. If you don't want to mail the entire list, just mail me and I will get it included. I will mail it out after we make some progress on it. The table below is simply a common format. If there is one thing I have learned from all of this, it is that I am not sure of _anything_ right now. Please submit to me all of the stuff you _know_ or think you know. After reviewing all of the mail on this subject, we still have some disagreements, but we'll resolve those. I think this info is vital, because if you are the owner of one of these cars, you need to know what parts will interchange with others, etc. Maybe we can do something similar later for the Corolla/MR2/Starlet /FX16/whatever folks. YR Model Option Body Engine R.Brakes Axle LSD? Comments ==+======+=======+====+======+========+=====+====+================= 78 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N New body style 78 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 79 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N 79 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 80 Celica GT R 20R Drum Solid N 80 Celica ST Rc 20R Drum Solid N 81 Celica GT R 22R Drum Solid N 81 Celica ST Rc 22R Drum Solid N 82 Celica GT T 22R Drum Solid N New Body style 82 Celica ST Tc 22R Drum Solid N New Body style 82 Celica Sup L T+ 5MGE Disc IRS N Digital Dash 82 Celica Sup GTS T+ 5MGE Disc IRS Y Sport Kit (Start the Supras as a separate model in 86.5) YR Model Option Body Engine R.Brakes Axle LSD? Comments ====+======+=======+====+======+========+=====+====+================== 86.5 Supra Key to body styles: F: Old fastback style, resembled early Mustang ?-77 R: Round 78-81 T: Triangular 82-? A: Aerodynamic ?-? ? "c" after the body indicates coupe. (I know _nothing_ about Celicas after about 85, so help me here...) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 12:49:56 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Celica rear ends, disc brakes and stuff.... My head is spinning with all the different comments..... Chris, This is probably of more use to you, but I'll post here as the info may be useful to others... I have the complete rear end from a 78 celica transplanted on my starlet. (solid axle with large drum brakes). One of the reasons I went with this year as against say an 85 corolla GTS rear end, is due to the width, and strength of the Diff itself (6.7" vs 6.3" -- I think the gts has a 6.3" diff), also the gts rear end would have caused my rims/tires to hang out about 3 inches on either side of the car). Minor detail, but I wasn't interested at the time in having fender body work done. The springs and shocks are not *coxial* ie they are side by side. On of the things I plan to do is to get a coil over conversion from select sales (US $350.00 for the pair). What this coil-over shock does is replace both the coil spring and the shock that's currently used, the coil-over just bolts in where the stock shock is. I think a few minor mods are necessary (nothing you couldn't do yourself) This set up would allow one to easily lower/raise the height of the car for a particular setup. With regards to rear Disc Brakes, I am planning to get the disc/caliper assembly from a 85-87 corolla GTS and adapt it to my 78 celica rear end, not a major to do, but I think a bit of welding is involved. (This is what all the guys with the hot Starlets in Barbados are using). With regards to a Supra rear ends, While it is great for stopping the tank, er I mean supra, The added weight of the rotors/caliper assembly might be something to consider in your suspension setup. (There's no free lunch). Also you didn't take into account the number of wheel bolts, vs the smallest wheel size the brake system will fit under. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: '83 Celica GT-S specs To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:57:15 -0500 (EST) Ok, I found my reviews. Just to clear up some of the confusion, here's what they say for the 1983 Celica GT-S: Suspension: Front: MacPherson struts, lower lateral arms, compliance struts, coil springs, tube shocks, anti-roll bar Rear: Semi-trailing arms, coil springs, tube shocks, anti-roll bar Engine (22RE) : Type: SOHC inline-4 Bore & stroke: 3.62 x 3.50, 91.9 x 88.9 Displacement: 144 ci., 2367 cc. Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 BHp@rpm: 105 @ 4800 Torque@rpm: 137@2800 Curb Weight, base: 2775 One of the quotes that I had been trying to remember: "Last year's GT-S added the Supra's 225/60HR-14 tires but stayed with the Celica's live rear axle. This year Toyota went the extra distance (and cost), fitting the semi-trailing arm independent rear suspension from the Supra." The reviews were the January '83 Road & Track and the October '83 Car & Driver. Hope someone finds this useful/interesting... (Chris?) :) Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:19:35 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Supplier..... Anyone wanting a "cheap" set of cams for their toyota, might do well to give the guys at Earl motorsports in England a call at: 0625-433773 Fax: 0625-433614 Contact Gary. They stock kent cams for the AE86, (That's how ther refer to the 4AGE in the RWD corollas. Price is A376 for 2 cams! either 282 deg. duration, 10.3 mm lift, or 306 deg. 10.16 mm. lift. (They also have less agressive cams). Hey if you can buy cams for a Lada, anything is possible. I am looking for a set of vernier sliding cam pulleys for the 4AGE, they didn't have one specifically, but may have one for another engine that might work..) -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:43:44 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: 1994 Toyota Atlantic race cars.. I recently spoke to a company that builds Atlantic spec 4AGE engines here in Toronto, (I was given their number by Electromotive as a source for their products, Actually they gave me two numbers , but the other place deals in porsche, ferrarri etc..... er NOT!). Apparently the new regulations for 94 will have the cars switching to fuel injection systems, (possibly electromotive) (recall they previously used Twin Carbs) as a result, many teams will have some spare parts, and since some teams go into a season with six spare engines, I was told they might be interested in selling some of their spares.. I'll keep you guys posted if anything looks "interesting". Note 70% of the cost of an atlantic spec engine is Labour related! -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 14:21:43 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Sending Pictures I realize this isn't very Toyota specific, but I thought maybe others of you may want to send images of their cars to interested list members, and I didn't want this info to be lost. First, in order to send a picture over any email system, it must be uuencoded. uuencoding changes all of the non-ascii codes to something in ascii, so that it can be uudecoded at the other end, turning it back into a binary. Unfortunately, uuencoding also increases an image's size by about 35%. After it is uuencoded, it can be split into parts. While this is probably not necessary, some older mail daemons will trash messages if they are too large. This is also true on multi-user systems. The "split" utility can be used here. Actually, I used a utility called uuxfer to both encode and split the files. If you don't have it, use archie to find it, get it and compile it. Then: uuxfer -m -eracecar2.jpg will both encode (-e) and split into multiple parts (-m). This split my image into 9 parts, calles racecar2.1 - racecar2.9. Now, onto mailing. There may be a better way to do this, but here is what I did: foreach i ( racecar2.1 racecar2.2 racecar2.3 racecar2.4 racecar2.5 racecar2.6 racecar2.7 racecar2.8 racecar2.9 ) foreach? mail -s "Celica JPG part $i:e of 9" graham@cc1.unt.edu < $i foreach? end I did a foreach, listed each file (actually, I did a racecar2.?, then expanded it). I mailed it to each person who requested it individually, and included a subject that added the "part 1 of 9" etc. I could have been a bit more efficient by either creating an alias that had all of the folks that wanted a copy of the picture, or by possibly doing a foreach within a foreach (is this possible?) Now, on the receiving end, each file should be saved with a unique file name. Then using uucat and uudecode... uucat racecar2.1 (.....) racecar2.9 | uudecode That's it! Save this somewhere, cause I'd love to have an image of each user and their "ride". BTW, if you don't have a scanner and would like an image, just mail a picture to me and I'll be happy to scan it and send it back. FYI, the larger the original, the better the computer image since we're only dealing with 300 dpi. Chris Myer 1496 Hyacinth ST NE Palm Bay, FL, 32907 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Power antennas To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML), toyota@quack.kfu.com (Toyota ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 07:51:49 -0500 (EST) Does anyone have experience with fixing power antennas? The power antenna on my '90 Supra no longer retracts all the way down, and I'd like to get it fixed. I've heard that I can replace just the mast and not the motor. Is that correct? If so, how difficult is it to replace the mast only on a power antenna? Thanks a bunch in advance. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 09:18:20 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Power antennas Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > Does anyone have experience with fixing power antennas? The power > antenna on my '90 Supra no longer retracts all the way down, and I'd > like to get it fixed. I've heard that I can replace just the mast > and not the motor. Is that correct? If so, how difficult is it > to replace the mast only on a power antenna? Thanks a bunch in > advance. > > Aaron Buhr > abuhr@eng.ufl.edu Is it actually broken, or just binding? If it is binding I have found that cleaning the fully extended antenna with a solvent and then wiping down with a light oil (WD-40 or maybe try graphite) gets its working again. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 09:02:41 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector Fred, Remember this thread? > >The corolla EFI does have 1 injector per cylinder, however, it also has >(as does the 22RE engine in my truck) a single injector in the intake >manifold which, on cold mornings is opened fully when the key is turned to >the start position thereby putting more fuel into the cylinders. (I also have >the pair of shop manuals for my car) My mechanic's off-the-cuff idea is that >by opening this injector at high rpm one could very cheaply increase the >amount of fuel entering the cylinders and thereby richen the mixture (which >should give more power as I do have the cams and exhaust in place to support >this). I am going to try and test this by connecting the injector to the >same control which opens the 4 secondary intake ports in the TVIS at about >4500 rpm. If this works, it would mean simple re-wiring only (cheap or what!) >and maybe the addition of a relay. > (other stuff deleted ..) Well there I was, going home yesterday, on my way to the subway, past the "Worlds Biggest Bookstore" -- That's actually the Store Name!) I glanced at the Nov Magazines, and got a glimpse of a British Car Mag featuring a Turbo charged Ford fiesta that was running 20 pounds of boost and an estimated 200 BHP. Apparently the builder modified the cold start injector on this engine so that it cuts in at about 9 pounds of boost, with a dash mounted switch that allowed the driver to activate the cold injector on cold mornings. Noted by the reviewer was the fact that the car has no after market engine management system, Just the stock Ford ECU . It did have some type of 'chip' though. So it's official, the new PM cancelled the Helicopter Deal! What Now? -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 11:10:59 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Fred, > Remember this thread? > > > > >The corolla EFI does have 1 injector per cylinder, however, it also has > >(as does the 22RE engine in my truck) a single injector in the intake > >manifold which, on cold mornings is opened fully when the key is turned to > >the start position thereby putting more fuel into the cylinders. (I also have > >the pair of shop manuals for my car) My mechanic's off-the-cuff idea is that > >by opening this injector at high rpm one could very cheaply increase the > >amount of fuel entering the cylinders and thereby richen the mixture (which > >should give more power as I do have the cams and exhaust in place to support > >this). I am going to try and test this by connecting the injector to the > >same control which opens the 4 secondary intake ports in the TVIS at about > >4500 rpm. If this works, it would mean simple re-wiring only (cheap or what!) > >and maybe the addition of a relay. > > > (other stuff deleted ..) > > Well there I was, going home yesterday, on my way to the subway, past the > "Worlds Biggest Bookstore" -- That's actually the Store Name!) I glanced at > the Nov Magazines, and got a glimpse of a British Car Mag featuring a Turbo > charged Ford fiesta that was running 20 pounds of boost and an estimated > 200 BHP. > > Apparently the builder modified the cold start injector on this engine so > that it cuts in at about 9 pounds of boost, with a dash mounted switch that > allowed the driver to activate the cold injector on cold mornings. Noted by > the reviewer was the fact that the car has no after market engine > management system, Just the stock Ford ECU . It did have some type of > 'chip' though. > > So it's official, the new PM cancelled the Helicopter Deal! What Now? > > -- > Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, > Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, > Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 Unfortunately, I never got a chance to try this before I parked my car for the winter. In retrospect I decided that what one needs to do is to open the cold-start injector based on the throttle position (ie. foot to the floor). This could easily be accomplished by a microswitch mounted on the throttle position sensor mechanism. Definately a spring project. With respect to helicopters.....we have been told that layoffs are going to happen soon. There may be some jobs for a small number of people on other projects but don't hold your breath. Funny that apparently the US marines are evaluating helicopters (EH-101 leading the pack) for a purchase of 500 (yes, five HUNDRED) which would have translated into about $5 billion in Canadian content requirement had our contract been kept in place (This means $5billion US--->CANADA)! Thank you Mr. Cretien for your wonderful job creation program. I hear there are openings for UI administrators! regards, fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension Date: Fri, 05 Nov 93 10:51:59 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com Since I can't find the microfiche, yet. Dan. ================ >From the TRD catalog: In the Celica description: ... The GT-S version was introduced in 1982 and offered slightly stiffer suspension, larger tires and wheels and wheel-well flares. Mechanically, it was the same as the standard model, with solid rear axle, drum brakes and the carburated 22R engine. In 1983, the GT-S received independent rear suspension (IRS) and in 1984 disc brakes were added to the rear axle as well. Also in 1983, the GT-S received the 22RE fuel injected engine, retained through the 1985 model year. ... RA60 (1982-1985). This includes a mixed bag of IRS and live-axle rear suspensions. The later ('84-85) GT-S is TRD's recommendation for street performance because it has the independent rear, fuel injection and four-wheel disc brakes. The coupe body style is both lighter and more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 14:10:27 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Please tell me how I can do this on my Supra 89 Turbo! I am getting > already 9 PSI and want more...... > > > Ehab. > > I suppose all you would need to do would be one of the following: 1) Get some sort of pressure switch which turns on at 6-7 PSI (you'd need to play with this a bit) and use this to drive the cold-start injector (all this needs is 12 volts across it) 2) Get an appropriate micro-switch and mount it by your throttle position switch (or under the gas pedal somehow/somewhere) such that when you tromp on the gas pedal the cold start injector is opened. There is another option which involves getting higher flow-rate fuel injectors and replacing the stock ones. The EFI computer will use the O2 sensor to roll-back the injectors at idle and cruising speed however when you tromp on it the injectors will be opened according to the map in the EFI computer. Therefore "larger" injectors equals greater fuel flow equals more horsies (I haven't tried this yet though - another spring project - or sooner if I move somewhere warm!) Comments are welcome! Regards, Fredo. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:31:51 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New Member! Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a Targa top. Hal, for the newer Supra's such as yours, HKS is a good source if money is not a problem. HKS has a wonderful ($8.00) catalog that lists about 2 dozen cars and exactly how much hp gain you can expect from each of their products. Fred, our archiver of sorts, will mail you the list of recommended suppliers, which includes HKS. Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:39:16 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Cold-start injector Just a thought...you guys be careful about doing this. Sounds like a neat idea, but I am guessing that it isn't as simple as sticking an injector into your intake manifold. If anyone is really going to try this, you would probably want to buy a lean/rich indicator like those sold by Moroso (I think...) Then, to work optimally, you'd probably need a small circuit to custom dial the extra fuel based on the rpm. Great idea, but more fuel by itself is not great. As a matter of fact, you want the least fuel in the mixture without the mixture becoming overly lean. Excess fuel just turns into liquid, which not only doesn't burn, it takes up room that could be occupied by more oxygen. Any other thoughts? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:55:47 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: List administration Well, it looks like Fred has prepared for the worst, and has shipped me all of the lists (car/book/supplier), the new user welcome, and the archive of all messages sent to date. He said that they expect about half of the employees at his site to be laid off. Bummer. Hope some of you took the opportunity to contact Fred and get his resume. He himself is not sure how long he'll be able to stay on the 'net. Anyhow, I was hoping that someone else might pick up the task of maintaining the lists and such, just as Fred was doing after he sent the list itself to me. I think that it would be easier on everyone if we would share these responsibilities amoung ourselves. I know that I can't carry the ball on all of them. If you are interested in helping, let me know. Maintaining just one list, such as that of suppliers, shouldn't be much of a problem. Just add any info when it comes across the 'net and send me an updated copy. Thanks in advance for those who are able to assist ! :-) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: New Member! To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 16:08:27 -0500 (EST) > Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is > interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a > Targa top. ... > Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some > info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? I'll summarize what I've learned. Keep in mind that I've actually tried none of the below, so I don't know the relative worth of each modification. But these are the inexpensive modifications I plan to make at one time or another: Polyurethane suspension bushings, ~$50 (?). Firms up the ride. K&N Filtercharger or HKS air intake system, ~$40. Increases intake air flow. HKS or Trust exhaust pipes & muffler, ~$440. Decreases exhaust backpressure. SuperChip (any others?) replacement engine control PROM, $350 (I think the non-turbo version is less). For my turbo I'll likely add a variable boost control such as HKS's, but this doesn't apply for non-turbos. If you want more info about any of the above, either mail me or ask on the list. Also, I think everyone recommends that you get the HKS ($8) and TRD ($5?) catalogs since they purportedly describe the various modifications in detail. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:10:45 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: List administration > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > > If you are interested in helping, let me know. Maintaining just one > list, such as that of suppliers, shouldn't be much of a problem. Just > add any info when it comes across the 'net and send me an updated copy. > I am willing to take over the list of suppliers. Send me the information. And, next year, I should be able to give more assistance as soon as I get more disk space. > Thanks in advance for those who are able to assist ! :-) > No problem. This is the list I can do! -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 16:12:55 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the GT-S info, Dan. > RA60 (1982-1985). This includes a mixed bag of IRS and live-axle rear > suspensions. The later ('84-85) GT-S is TRD's recommendation for > street performance because it has the independent rear, fuel injection > and four-wheel disc brakes. The coupe body style is both lighter and > more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner > and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require > greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, I can't resist agreeing with that assessment. It took me a couple of expensive lessions to find that out myself. All in all I think the Celica GT-S is a pretty well balanced car, but if you get too gung- ho (which I did in my younger days) you can easily get yourself in trouble with the trailing-throttle oversteer. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:00:46 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector > Please tell me how I can do this on my Supra 89 Turbo! I am getting >already 9 PSI and want more...... > > Utilising the additional injector will not increase your boost. To increase boost you play around with mechnical stuff, such as the mod Allen mentioned, or play around with the point at which the waste gate opens,( HKS electronic valve controller etc). The benefit of an additional injector is that it will pump additional fuel into the cyclinder at high boost, to stop the engine from running lean. i.e more air than fuel. For *ANY* engine to perform well, (turbo or naturally aspirated), you need to keep the air fuel ratio at a nominal value. something like 14/1 (If I recall right). Dumping more fuel into the cyclinders than the engine can burn will only help to foul the plugs, and produce black smoke. According to the HKS catalog, (which I happen to have at work with Today) The breakdown for HKS power for the Turbo 87-92 Supras are as follows: Stock 230 HP @ 5 PSI Stage 1 251 HP @ 8 PSI Turbo Exhaust System Stage 2 256 HP @ 8.5 PSI Power Flow Air filter Stage 3 282 HP @ 11 PSI Electronic Valve controller Stage 4 295 HP @ 11.5 PSI Intercooler kit Stage 5 327 HP @ 13.5 PSI PFC F-CON (Programmable fuel computer) Stage 6 342 HP @ 13.5 PSI Vein pressure converter, VPC Power flow Adaptor Stage 7 435 HP @ 15 PSI Sport Turbo upgrade, Injector & PROM Upgrade Stage 8 450 HP @ 15 PSI Cams & Adjustable Cam Pulleys. Comments: *Electronic Valve controller: Interprets the signal sent to the wastegate actuator on the turbo and can therefore manipulate it, i.e open it later, etc.. *Intercooler kit, not a bad idea on any Turbo charged car. *PFC F-Con, plug in fuel computer to supplement the OEM ECU *Vein pressure converter replaces OEM air metering devices. *Sports turbo -- I believe HKS uses the Garrett T4. Easily handles 25 PSI. *Cams, I think the main goal is lift as opposed to duration. Judging from the stages, The stock Supra engine management system should be able to compensate for 11 PSI. i.e There would be no need to use the additional injector. The mechanical aspect of keeping the boost at 11 PSI however has to come from some aftermarket device. HKS does make something called an Additional Injector controller. According to the catalog, The AIC can can be controlled by boost pressure or by RPM. (Fred, sounds like what you need) I have seen one of these devices on a Turbo RX-7, and it is a fairly small device. Apparently its not CARB certified though :-) "There's Fast, There's Bloody Fast, and then there is the kind of fast that makes your friends scream for Mercy" Car & Car Conversions on describing a turbo cosworth 4 cyclinder kit car with the boost turned up to produce 310 BHP. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:25:55 EST To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) Subject: Re: FYI: Celica GT-S suspension > > more rigid than the liftback. Due to the IRS, these models can corner > > and brake better than the live-axle cars at lower speeds, but require > > greater skill at higher speeds because the rear end has a tendency to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > kick out (oversteer) under trailing-throttle conditions. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Yeah, I can't resist agreeing with that assessment. It took me a > couple of expensive lessions to find that out myself. This seems to indicate that you had yet to learn the "never lift in the corner" axiom - if you feel that you have to lift, you went in too fast. In any case, such a condition is best encountered on a racetrack, so that there's a bit of runoff, since if you don't lift, you'll go off a bit, and then drive back on, whereas if you lift, you snap-spin and probably wind up kissing the wall... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 14:37:46 -0800 From: Brian Goble To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Upgrading Non-Turbo Supra I have an '88 Supra Turbo and I recently installed the HKS Turbo Exhaust. For your non-turbo, I would really recommend the HKS Street Exhaust. With my new exhaust, I get much better low-end response...the engine revs up (and moves the car) much faster now. All this low-end stuff doesn't even use the turbo so I would think you could see similar results. I actually haven't had too much of a chance to play with the top-end power. I also just go my K&N FilterCharger Air Filter replacement in the mail yesterday (from TRD...last one they had in stock). I would consider this mod too...it's only $50. Someone mentioned the SuperChip but I don't think they make one for the non-turbo (or do they?) The HKS stuff has a bunch of electronic stuff (that is expensive) that might help you too. I would start with air-intake and exhaust first. You might even consider an open-air-box replacement like the HKS PowerFlow. Also, consider joing the supra mailing list (mail to supras-request@vicor.com) ...you could also add a turbo! :) Hope this info helps... -Brian ==)------------ Brian Goble | goble@hardy.u.washington.edu "Finishing a close second means you didn't win." ------------(== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 09:10:40 -0500 To: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Cold-start injector >I suppose all you would need to do would be one of the following: > >1) Get some sort of pressure switch which turns on at 6-7 PSI > (you'd need to play with this a bit) and use this to drive > the cold-start injector (all this needs is 12 volts across > it) > >2) Get an appropriate micro-switch and mount it by your throttle > position switch (or under the gas pedal somehow/somewhere) > such that when you tromp on the gas pedal the cold start > injector is opened. > (stuff deleted)... Fred, They are several companies advertising in Turbo magazine, a device for controlling up to six additional injectors, one of these devices was $289 US, and most can be controlled by RPM. On reflection though, I think you would want to be able to control the device according to the air fuel ratio, as dumping more fuel than the engine can burn won't increase performance.. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Re: New Member! To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:20:11 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > Today we are joined by Hal Starke, an engineer from Virginia. Hal is > interested in boosting the performance on his non-turbo 89 Supra with a > Targa top. > > Hal, for the newer Supra's such as yours, HKS is a good source if money > is not a problem. HKS has a wonderful ($8.00) catalog that lists about > 2 dozen cars and exactly how much hp gain you can expect from each of > their products. Fred, our archiver of sorts, will mail you the list of > recommended suppliers, which includes HKS. > > Now if money is a problem, some of our other members can give you some > info. Aaron, Ehab, any ideas? > > Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com > ================================================================ > = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = > = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = > = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = > = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = > = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = > =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = > ================================================================ > I think Brian and Aeron have answered the question. I can tell you that TRUST claims that if you use their Turbo upgrade, you get up to 500 hp!!! The Supra motor has a lot of power to be had in it. My personal goal is to get to 400 hp w/o any reliability problems(notice I said reliability not longivity!) I have installed the Trust exh and intake filter, Superchip(more on that later) and used the Thermo Tec stuff. That stuff really works! Under the hood temp has gone down noticably and my turbo responds at 2500 rpm not 2800 as it used to. This is w/o the boost increase or the Superchip!. This is w/o the boost increase or the Superchip!. I am also interested in water injection and a fan to cool the intercooler. Some of the above mods apply to the non turbo model too! Sway bars would be a $300 option and will make the car handle instantly better... I have the ST ones and they work great. Hope this helps! Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 13:57:06 CST From: fredo@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Load compensating rear brakes on trucks Does anyone out there have any experience with adjusting the load compensating mechanism for the rear brakes on a truck (I think both 2wd and 4wd have them)? This summer I had an extra leaf spring added to the rear springs of my truck (very happy with this). Now that the snow is here I have noticed that the rear brakes hardly pull at all (no rear ABS kick-in even on ice). This seems likely as the rear end is now higher even with the truck cap and extra weight. I want to adjust the proportioning thing so there is more rear brake power applied. There seems to be a bolt mechanism where the adjusting rod is connected to the rear axle. Will adjusting this adjust the bias? If so, will raising the adjusting rod increase the rear brakes as I suspect? Any info is appreciated! Thanks, Fredo. P.S. WRT my employment status (for anyone who cares)....I will probably find out which 50% of the plant I will be in on Monday.....nothing like an ulcer! (whine mode off!) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 15:04:01 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Factory service tools Anyone bought factory service tools for their toyota from Toyota Service Tools 800-533-5338 Jon Hacker Bellcore, Red Bank NJ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 14:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Toyota Service Tools The last thing I purchased was a door hinge bolt box wrench, some carb tools, and a bearing removal set for my Celica. This had to be more than 3 years ago, so I don't have the specifics on hand at the moment. As I recall, the tools are manufactured by a tool company out East (I'm in CA). I'll post more details tomorrow if nobody beats me to it (stuffs at home). It may have not been Snap-On quality stuff, but so far everythings held up well. No complaints. Clark '78 Celica GT '89 944s2 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:21:45 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Recruiting... Fred suggested that I write a note to a few different mailing lists to invite others to join the Toyota Mods list. I actually started to do this, but then stopped because of a concern I have held for a while. I am afraid that if we "over-advertise" this list, it will become filled with members who actually know very little about modifications, and will become a forum for questions better left on the regular Toyota mailing list. However, this isn't to say that we don't want our list to grow. To the contrary, the more knowledgeable folks we have, the better the list will be for it. Instead of just passing out an open invitation to join, let me suggest this...As you meet people on the other mailing lists, such as: autox@autox.team.net (the autocross list) MR2-Interest@validgh.com (the MR2 list) supras@vicor.com (the supras list) toyota@quack.sac.ca.us (the generic toyota list) or throught usenet, and if your mail with them indicates that they would possibly be an asset to our list, recommend it to them. I myself was invited to the list in this manner (by Errol, if I remember correctly), and have since invited several others who are now key contributors. As our knowledge base grows, it will allow some of the main blabber-mouths (me!) to take a back seat and let some of the others share. Whenever I think of what a wealth of knowledge that already exists on this list, I remind myself that there _may_ be one or two others out there who know just a little bit more. :-) (Call me greedy!) And by keeping some of the "casual" Toyota drivers in the regular Toyota list, it will help keep the bandwidth to a manageable level. Hope this is OK with you Fred. Good call to try to do some expansion, at any rate. Christopher P. Myer cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com ================================================================ = ________ ________ ___ ___ ________ ________ ___ = = /__ __// / ___ // \ \\ / // / ___ // /__ __// / \\ = = / // / // / // \ \/ // / // / // / // / /\ \\ = = / // / // / // \ // / // / // / // / //_\ \\ = = / // / //_/ // / // / //_/ // / // / _____\ \\ = =/ // / // / // / // / // / // \ \\ = ================================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Supra Q's To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 11:31:57 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com I have two questions for you guys: 1. What happens if I disconnect the O2 sensor on my 89 Supra Turbo? 2. Has any one tried the tri tipped spark plug? Thx in advance, Ehab. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 14:34:50 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Springs Does anybody know of a good supplier for suspension springs? I want to change the spring rates on the race car, but am looking for someone who has more experience in that area, and can give me an idea of what rates to choose. I am planning on calling Carrera in Atlanta, and RJ at TRD told me about a company called Spring Techniques (or something like that), but I have been unable to find anything by that name yet. Any help would be appreciated. BTW, I'm back to the race track Friday night, first time in about 8 weeks. Car seems to be ready, but we'll see. The front seems real soft, which is why I want to check on new springs. I went to the track 2 Friday's ago and watched 28 cars race in my class on the 1/3 mile track. Needless to say, there was a preponderance of yellow flags as the pulled cars out of the wall and off of their roofs. Got pretty ugly. Fortunately, I heard there were only 20 cars last week (a lot, but more reasonable.) I hear they are going to do a 100 lap race in our class for $2000. I kinda doubt that I will even try that one, since it is sure to turn into a demolition derby of _major_ preportions, and since they are almost sure to do a tech inspection with that much money involved. I kinna doubt I'd pass any tech inspection with my Webber synchronous 38mm carb! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:00:20 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: Springs > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > Does anybody know of a good supplier for suspension springs? I want to > change the spring rates on the race car, but am looking for someone who > has more experience in that area, and can give me an idea of what rates > to choose. I am planning on calling Carrera in Atlanta, and RJ at TRD > told me about a company called Spring Techniques (or something like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He probably meant Suspension Techniques - I think that I have the number at home. I'll try to send it to you tomorrow. -Errol. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 16:22:32 HST From: kamallen@pulua.hcc.Hawaii.Edu (Allen T "Koji" Kam) To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Springs Chris... This is a company i never tried but i have looked at but have never tried and their catalogue that they have sent me was kinna incomplete so i didnt see any toyota things. But they do allow for custom springs. Suspension Spring Specialists P.o Box 145 Bremen In 46506 Usa & Canada 1-800-323-7419 fax 219-546-4725 They allow Visa and MC They advertise their "Blue Coil" springs If not Suspension Techniques does have springs also for your Silly-car Best Wishes... you can always bribe me and make me sell mines.... heh... -Allen T "Koji" Kam (I hate typing this whole thing blind since i'm lagging badly...please excuse the mistakes and all this jazz....) *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 04:25:41 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Springing Back ! (Try III) >> Chris... >> This is a company i never tried but i have looked at but have never >> tired and their catalogue (stuff deleted...) >Thanks. I'll give them a call today. Dammm..you guys all eberry where for all ya things...sheesh !!! >> If not Suspension Techniques does have springs also for your Silly-car >> Best Wishes... >That's who RJ recommended, along with Carrera. Do you have a PH# for >Suspension Techniques? I don't have a current number for them sorry. I have Carrea's offhand They make shocks and springs and are pretty cheap. They "wrote the book on coil overs" hahah thats a quote. Carrera sends you a BIG booklet of nice things to order and buy =) I recommend. Good Spring and weight ratios... Carrera Racing Shocks 5412 New Peachtree Road Atlanta, GA 30341 Tech Services: (404) 451-8811 Orders (800) RACE-4-IT Fax: (404) 451-8086 For suspension Techniques i have an old 1-800 number but check (*yuck*) Road And Track or such. They have them in there regularly or someone else must have it... >> you can always bribe me and make me sell mines.... >> heh... >Actually, the main reason I'm going through these guys instead of just >getting some from TRD or locally is that Circle-Track cars require some >funky spring rates--usually a different rate on each corner. I wanna >pick these guys brains and see if they know what I should be doing as >far as rates and heights. Very illegal in my class, but hey, ya gada do >what ya gada do. In my class, if you aren't way in the lead, you are >gonna get jammed into the wall or flipped onto your roof. Kinda the >Road Warrior approach to racing. Exactly like Autocross, except with >walls and other cars blindsiding you. ;-) Heh heh...Dang...I don't wanna risk my baybee on that...good luck..you know whats best it seems. I do how ever might have a deal on 1977 Celica Springs for you soon or someone else on net. Post more about this later. >Good to hear from you. Let me know about the S.T. number and I'll let >you know how I do Friday night... Anyone know the number ? =) >Chris Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 04:27:08 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Gearing (*Try III*) I'm in a bit of a turmoil. This is my situation. I'm running a "basically stock" 3TC Motor with a 2TC high compression head. 5 Speed 10 bolt Celica Rear end in my 1980 Corolla Sports Coupe. My dilema is that i'm currently Running 5:13 Final end gearing. I love the gearing and feel nothing wrong with it. I love the acceleration factor and don't like top speeds over 120mph to much. I love the Torque and such. My gas mileage is about 200 Miles on a full tank of Gas (10 gallon fuel cell) I have a choice of running a 4.66 TRD Posi Unit or a 4.3 TRD Gearing. I even have an option of picking up a 4.88 unit. I would'nt mind the 4.88 but thats gonna cost me some $400 to buy it. The other gearing i am getting free. My motor is built to rev up to 10k RPM and maintain that for a duration of 20 minutes (speed and road tested) Its not something i would love to do again but i can do it if needed. I run about 4k rpm doing 60 mph in 5th Gear. how much power will i lose by going a step down ? Anyone ? I'm not running a "Posi" / Locker unit now due to Wet Weather conditons down here this time of year. Please feel free to comment. I'm VERY willing to listen to all comments about this and my problem. (also what ever i don't use i'll loan to Chris to use in his "race" car or sell to anyone with a 10 bolt celica rear end as long as they don't resell it to anyone else or with the car when its gone) -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 09:30:04 EST I recently sent TRD a request for a catalog. They responded saying that they were still redesigning their catalogs and were hoping to be done by the middle of this month (Nov.). They indicated they'd be happy to send me a free catalog(s) if I told them which chassis types I'm interested in. However I don't know what the chassis designations for any Toyota vehicles are. I'd greatly appreciate it if y'all could fill me in on what vehicles the following chassis types refer to: AE82, AE86, AE92, AW11, EL31, EL44, AE101, MA60, MA70, RA, ST160-5, ST185, SW20, TE Thanks in advance. Aaron Buhr abuhr@eng.ufl.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 05:15:09 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Name this Chassis Aaron... > I recently sent TRD a request for a catalog. They responded saying >that they were still redesigning their catalogs and were hoping to be >done by the middle of this month (Nov.). They indicated they'd be happy >to send me a free catalog(s) if I told them which chassis types I'm >interested in. However I don't know what the chassis designations for >any Toyota vehicles are. I'd greatly appreciate it if y'all could fill >me in on what vehicles the following chassis types refer to: >AE82, AE86, AE92, AW11, EL31, EL44, AE101, MA60, MA70, RA, ST160-5, >ST185, SW20, TE Don't Quote me on this cause its early and i'm out of this. AE is a Corolla Designation. For newer Corollas from 1985 and Up. AE 82 could be a Corolla SR-5 AE-86 is a Corolla GTS (For sure) till 1987 old body style AE-92 is the newer GTS Front Wheel Drive AE-101 is the New 2 Door Corolla GTS (not avail us i think) AE-102 is the GTZ Corolla AW-11 is a Mister 2 MR-2 All Years ( or older from 85-88 at least) MA is a Supra designation MA-60 is A Supra with a 5MG i think from 1982 and up MA-70 1986 1/2 Supra and up MA-71 is the Turbo Supra designation (i think....) RA i belive (not sure) is a Celica (see-li-ca i call them silly cars) ST is also for the newer 1987 and up Celica models. RA-20 is from 1970 - 1977 Celica RA-40 (or maybe 50 not sure) Is the newer bodystyle from 1978 up (like Chris's car) RA-60 is the 1982-1985 Celica including GTS / Celica Supra looking models ST-160-5 Celicas first bubble shaped with SF series motors ST-185 I belive this is "90's" Celicas... SW I think this is the newer i.e Turbo MR-2 models ??? anyone ?? I think so When they switced to the Celica Based Turbo Motors.. TE Any older year corolla from 1970 till 1983 TE-20-30 (or so) Any Early year corolla from 1970 - 1974 Sports Coupe and S-5 coupes and SR-5 coupes. Inclues 2tc motors and 3k motors TE-30 -something till 50-something Corollas Sedans 4 door 2 door SR-5's etc etc Sports Coupes etc. From 1975 till 1979 TE-72 My car.. 1980 - 1884 with 3tc/4ac later years 70-something means corollas from 1980 till 1984 > Thanks in advance. Don't quote me on this..i don't have a book infront of me. >Aaron Buhr >abuhr@eng.ufl.edu -Allen T "Koji" Kam P.S. I'm sure if you tell them what kinna car ya got..they would send the right book to you =) all ya have to do is ask for RJ.. or even Kimmie..i think she still works at TRD she just got a new Twin turbo Supra..I seen the New TRD Catalogue in a Japan magazine just the cover. =) *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 05:30:55 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Serious Gearing (Clearer Statement) Background of Whole.... The Car: 1980 Corolla SR-5 1980 3TC with 2TC High Comp Head 1974 Celica 10 Bolt Rear end with TRD 5:13 Gears (no posi or locker) 1985 GTS T-50 Transmission with TRD Gearset (I think this is it) 1st Gear 2.630 2nd Gear 1.607 3rd Gear 1.384 4th Gear 1.000 5th Gear .860 13 x 7 Advan Racing Rims A3A -optional- 13 x 7 SSR 215/50 Front 235/50 Rear 205/60 Front and Rear Driving: I run about 60 mph in 5th Gear @ 4000 rpm I hardly exceed 120 mph I'm all 0-60 maybe 80 or 100. Tires arent speed rated above 120mph But i have exceeded this running 10,000 RPM + for a duration. I also get about 200 mpg on a 10gal fuel tank. What I think about big gearing: Bigger gearing just gets you to your speed faster. Thats all. What I wanna change: Rear end Gear Ratio From 5:13 to 4.88 Posi or 4.66 Posi Why I wanna change: My first gear is almost useless. I can "chirp" or spin tires on all 5 gears with no problems. I love my gearing but wonder if i should change since 1st gear is a bit much but so i start off in second, but if i change will i lose my launching advantage. What I wanna know: What drastic changes will i have in my car ? How my power will i lose by the change ? How will my acelleration suffer by these changes ? Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? Please make any comments and such. I'm VERY open to them. I hope this is most clearer then my last post. Thanks for putting up with my bubbling. I accept all comments and flames and welcome them. Please help me solve my Dilema. This is my daily driver car to school and back over a mountain. I love my car and its power band now. Just wondering if I change gearing yet again will I gain or lose any ? Thanks again... -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 11:19:48 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: A Matter of Serious Gearing (Clearer Statement) > >Background of Whole.... > > >The Car: 1980 Corolla SR-5 > 1980 3TC with 2TC High Comp Head > 1974 Celica 10 Bolt Rear end with TRD 5:13 Gears (no posi or locker) > 1985 GTS T-50 Transmission with TRD Gearset (I think this is it) > 1st Gear 2.630 > 2nd Gear 1.607 > 3rd Gear 1.384 > 4th Gear 1.000 > 5th Gear .860 > 13 x 7 Advan Racing Rims A3A -optional- 13 x 7 SSR > 215/50 Front 235/50 Rear 205/60 Front and Rear > >Driving: I run about 60 mph in 5th Gear @ 4000 rpm I hardly exceed 120 mph > I'm all 0-60 maybe 80 or 100. Tires arent speed rated above 120mph > But i have exceeded this running 10,000 RPM + for a duration. > I also get about 200 mpg on a 10gal fuel tank. > >What I think about big gearing: Bigger gearing just gets you to your speed > faster. Thats all. > >What I wanna change: Rear end Gear Ratio From 5:13 to 4.88 Posi or 4.66 Posi > >Why I wanna change: My first gear is almost useless. I can "chirp" or spin > tires on all 5 gears with no problems. I love my gearing > but wonder if i should change since 1st gear is a bit much > but so i start off in second, but if i change will i lose > my launching advantage. > >What I wanna know: What drastic changes will i have in my car ? > How my power will i lose by the change ? > How will my acelleration suffer by these changes ? > Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? > (...other stuff deleted) Allen, I am using a 4.1 diff on my starlet, at 100 KPH (62 MPH -- Speed limit in Ontario), I am reving between 3800 - 4000 RPM. Which is just about fine, since my cams are rated by TRD as providing power between 3500 - 7500 + RPM. At 100 KPH, I can stamp on the gas without shifting down, and the car will pull great as it revs to the end of its power band.... You say that you are reving to 10K, but is the engine actually developing power at this level? For a 10K RPM engine, you need cams with at least 320 degrees of duration with equally agressive lift, (is this the case?) A rear end ratio over 5.0, is suited to such an engine, as it will quickly allow the car to get into its high RPM band. (You will have little power below 3000 RPM) I can't remember what the ratios are for the TRD close ratio gear sets (VS stock), but TRD states that a rear end ratio over 5 needs the TRD gear set, otherwise the car will run out the 1st gear in 6 ft! I think that if you are starting in second and spinning rubber, that stepping down to a 4.88 will not affect your launching advantage, you might actually be better off, as you will be able to travel further in each gear (all other things being equal). -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 12:51:21 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Gear Ratios Cc: aultman@jezebel.ms.sandia.gov I realize that most of you probably didn't quite get the gist of Koji's last post, so I "talk"ed to him and got a few more details. His question is a good one, so I thought I'd run through it for every one. How do you select gear ratios? This is something I am familiar with because it is _critical_ to circle track racers. Basically, the job of selecting a gear for a circle track race is one of determining what max speed (mph) you can handle the corner at (i.e., your lowest speed on the track), and then looking at your power curve to determine what speed (rpm) your engine begins its peak power and torque. Winning at circle track racing means matching the low mph to the low end of your power band. Now, few low-buck racers have done the time necessary on a dyno to figure out what their torque/hp curves look like. So I just guesstimate what kind of engine speed my power starts to get really strong at. (BTW, someone ought to send in a discussion of the meanings/virtues of HP vs Torque. I'm not strong in this area...) In order to do the basic math, you must know: Transmission Ratios in each gear... 1st- 2nd- 3rd- 4th- 5th- Rear-end ratio: Tire size: Now, If I had this info for my car, I'd do an example, but I don't have it here at work. But basically If I can go around the corner at 45 mph MAX, and if I figure my best bottom RPM is aroun 3500 RPM, I want to figure out what combo of tranny gear, rear end size, and tire size will give me 3500 RPM @ 45 MPH. First figure out your tire circumference. I posted a program a while back that will do this for you, but you can do it with a calculator. A 185/60 R14 size tells us that our side wall is 60% of 185 mm (25.4mm = 1 inch), and the wheel is 14 inches tall. 14 plus 2 x ((185x.6) / 25.4) = 22.75 (approx) inches. (check my math...) That's your diameter. Your circumference is 22.75 x 2 x pi = 143 (approx) inches. That means, for each time your tire goes around, you will travel 143 inches. Now I want to go 45 mph = 45 x 5280 x 12 = 2851200 in/hr = 47520 in/min. 47520/143 = 332, the number of times I want my tire to revolve in one minute. Obviously, 332 is not a good speed for my engine, but I determined that 3500 was. 3500/332 = approx 10.5. This is your final drive ratio, equal to your rear end ratio times your tranny ratio in any given gear. [And for some reason, this doesn't look right to me...I expected a number closer to 7.5. I'll have to check my numbers at home. You get the idea though.] You lo As I said in the outset, match your low rpm to your low speed and you're gonna be a (potential) winner. Now, change anything...springs, shocks, engine, spark plugs, weather, etc...anything that can change your low rpm or your low speed, and you must go through all of this again. That is why the for "quick-change" 9 inch rear end is so popular in circle track racing. How does this apply to you autocross/road race guys? It's certainly not as easy, but you still want to figure out what speed you'll be running on the track, and try to match that to what speeds you engine runs best at. This is why a close ratio tranny is so beautiful for you guys...it gives you a finer adjustment of your ratio, at the expense of having a broader range. Hope somebody finds this interesting... Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:21:32 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Gear Ratios > How does this apply to you autocross/road race guys? It's certainly not > as easy, but you still want to figure out what speed you'll be running > on the track, and try to match that to what speeds you engine runs best > at. This is why a close ratio tranny is so beautiful for you guys...it > gives you a finer adjustment of your ratio, at the expense of having a > broader range. > > Hope somebody finds this interesting... > > Chris > I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Jon Hacker Bellcore, Redbank NJ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:32:46 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Gear Ratios Jon Writes... > I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so > that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of > the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my > Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Not a bad rule of thumb, but you gotta remember that with race cars, red line is kinda hard to define. Like Koji says, he can run his Corolla at 10K for 20 min or better. (Kids, don't try that with the folks Yugo!) I think Pat Braden says something to the same effect though in the TPHandbook. Really, the _right_ way to do it is to get a complete dyno test run and then overlay the torque and HP vs RPM curves. Each car/engine will require something a little different. Kinda expensive, but if you are into racing it is the way to go. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:49:40 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: me/mine/mods...New Member! Allow me to introduct to the list Ray Bahr, MR2 racer/suspension guru. ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From bahrr@pictel.com Fri Nov 12 13:42:12 1993 Hi: I would like to join this group. I live in New England so I have access to a number of race tracks as well as nice roads. I own a 1991 MR2 Turbo with a HKS muffler, and I have done a +1 with rims ( Fitti Indy's with 225/50, 205/50-15) I have built up a 1986 MR2 with a lot of suspension stuff an a little engine stuff. ( I like to do track events). Thanks Ray Bahr ----- End Included Message ----- Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have you! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:58:34 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Hi Okay, if its any consolation, I'm panting trying to keep up with all of this mail today. Sorry I didn't send these two new members out together....:-( Anyhow, welcome to the list Ralph Brown from Massachusetts. Welcome aboard, Ralph, we have several members with extensive knowledge on these cars. Chris ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From rbrown@BBN.COM Fri Nov 12 13:09:30 1993 I'm Ralph Brown, I live in Haverhill, MA, I have an 89 MR2 Supercharged which so far I've just put Dunlop 195 D60's on. I like the car a lot and am thinking about just doing some mods on it and keeping it another 60K miles rather than trading it. My driving is in the spirited street class, I don't have time to autocross anymore. I'm much more interested in handling than raw acceleration, althought a bit more power wouldn't be unpleasant. Ralph ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 14:00:46 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: me/mine/mods...New Member! > From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) > > Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a > few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older > 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have ^^^^^^^^ If I read this correctly, I think that this is a mistake... The MR2 mkI came with a 4AGE engine as opposed to the 3T. Just my $0.02... -Errol xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 09:27:02 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Toy-mods list Ya gotta love this guy. After reading at least a dozen messages in a row from him, I get this... ----- Begin Included Message ----- errr it occured to me... errrr.. does anyone on this list like have to pay for their mail feed ? if so... maybe you could bunch up all the mail in one day and send it to them that would ? would that be easier for them ? so they don't have to pay for all these nonsense posts ? just wondering orsoemthign i thought about -allen ----- End Included Message ----- Phenomenal mechanic, great driver, and sensitive too! Truth is, I don't know the answer to this one, so let me know if the volume/frequency of mail is a problem. For you newer members, Koji (Allen) is part of a new age experiment to combine a "stream of consciousness" writing style with technical subject matter. BTW, all of the stuff he writes will make sense if you a.) read it 15 times or b.) use a blotter of LSD before reading it. Either way, he knows more about the stuff we are interested in that about anyone I know, so it's worth the effort. Now, if I could just convice Koji to post at some time _other_ than between midnight and 5 am, and not to try to write as fast as he drives.....nah, then it wouldn't be Koji! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 13 Nov 93 05:46:34 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Comments from God of Toyota Mods >Could you tell us (ie, the list) or at least me...what type of car you >have been talking about (ie, your car). I've forgotten what it is...thanx! No problems Brian. My car is a 1980 Corolla SR-5 Sports Coupe. Its "basically" "stock" please..don't hold me to that quote. I've done a lot of alterations to my car. You proably name something to deal with a early year old techonology car or Toyota, its probly been done with my car. I'm no expert on all of it, but what i've done. I've done a lot. My two current Dilema's are: 1) Final Drive Gear Selection. Rear end gearing. I have currently 5:13 gears and debating if I go down .13 to 4.66 or even to 4.88 how much time and power will I lose by changing my power band. My thoughts aren't well put because i'm baffled at this and seeking help. 2) My reoccuring exhaust manifold gasket blowing and bolts breaking off in the head. I belive this is due to my compression and partly gearing. Too much combustion results in blowing of the gasket and breaking off bolts when downshifting and the motor backfiring or such. >-Brian > ==)------------ > Brian Goble | goble@hardy.u.washington.edu > "Finishing a close second means you didn't win." > ------------(== BTW I hope you were posting to me (*gack*) and I LOVE your Quote... - Aloha mon... -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:35:17 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Technology on a Fast Track >> From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) >> >> Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a >> few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older >> 4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have ^^^^^^^^ > If I read this correctly, I think that this is a mistake... The > MR2 mkI came with a 4AGE engine as opposed to the 3T. Just my > $0.02... I think what he meant is us peeples stuck in the dark ages whom hasnt gone with Techonology and still in the dark ages of 8 valve motors ! > -Errol Techonology on a Fast Track ! Go Toyota ! -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:33:13 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Welcome MR-2 User ! >Okay, if its any consolation, I'm panting trying to keep up with all of >this mail today. Sorry I didn't send these two new members out >together....:-( Awww Chris...like you work for a living ? ;) >Anyhow, welcome to the list Ralph Brown from Massachusetts. Welcome >aboard, Ralph, we have several members with extensive knowledge on these >cars. I guess That i'm not one so don't listen to me and tell me to be quiet ! ;) >Chris (*grovel to the Toyota-mods god*) >----- Begin Included Message ----- >From rbrown@BBN.COM Fri Nov 12 13:09:30 1993 >I'm Ralph Brown, I live in Haverhill, MA, I have an 89 MR2 Supercharged >which so far I've just put Dunlop 195 D60's on. I like the car a lot and >am thinking about just doing some mods on it and keeping it another 60K >miles rather than trading it. Do you still have the stock Aluminum rims for this car ? The D60 tires are a serious investment to your car. Do you have any idea what you want out of your car ? I've worked with 2 Supercharged motors before. One of them has the HKS Pulley. Its only a 10 Degree bigger wheel then stock, because their reasoning was that they would have made it bigger if they wanted to but wanted to keep a "Stock" appearance thus a "sleeper car" But you can have one made at your local machine shop to what ever size you wish ! =) The second thing i beive was the Blow off valve for this car we put on. This helped somewhat. My friend is debating what the next step is as my other friend with a 1987 MR-2 Automatic is within 2 seconds of his superchaged MR-2 and feels threatened. The Short Throw Shifter is another mod ive worked with. Its Simple on the MR-2 VERY Simple. >My driving is in the spirited street class, I don't have time to >autocross >anymore. I'm much more interested in handling than raw acceleration, >althought a bit more power wouldn't be unpleasant. Anti-Sway Bars ! Shocks ! Get the Strut tower bars for your car ! Even though they have you can strengthen then a bit and get more performance. Also the Plyurathne bushing help a bit also. >Ralph >----- End Included Message ----- Hope you learn something Ralph ! I know i sure did ! =) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:44:14 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Running in the RED ! (Not RPM) Reply >> I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway >> driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! >> ( very hot). >This is certainly getting too hot. don't let them snow you - you >have a real problem. Note that the manifold cracked - that's almost >certainly from the excessive thermal strain. It sounds like a combustion >problem to me, as if perhaps the timing is too retarded and the exhaust >valves open before the charge is burned, so it goes on burning on its >way down the exhaust manifold. Or something like that... Damm....thats good John..i didnt consider that. Hmm...Food for Thought... Welps...Ingorance is bliss sometimes =) >John R. Lupien - Allen T "Koji" Kam whom is learning sumthing new eberry day ! *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:56:46 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Turbo MR-2 Problems... Errr Correct me if i'm wrong, or maybe Chris could answer this. I think someone else had this cooling problem before ? Or something similar ? I've been considering a Turbo MR-2 myself. Any real problems with the car ? -Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:41:39 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Turbo MR-2 Running in the RED ! (Not RPM !) >Hi: > I do a lot of work on cars as a hobby, and I have a problem which >has me stumped! >I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway >driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! >( very hot). I have replaced the catalitic converter, the o2 sensor, the >EGR valve, and the exhaust mainfold - the old one cracked. I am in the >process of checking the valve timing - by inspection. The compression is >good around 170 psi in all cylinders, the vacumm is good - steady and where >it should be. Toyota hotline is completly useless. They try to convince me >that this is not bad!! The manifold gets hot enough to cause the oil filter >to singe. If anyone knows what the exhaust gas temp should be, or what this problem could be I desperatly need to know. BTW the gas milage is fairly normal.Also it has to be night to see the manifold glowing - but I still think that it is to hot. Errr....Ray..by any chance do you notice your Aux Fan kicking on ? Did you change the Theromstat ? Maybe its your Thermal Fan switch. Its supposed to kick on your Aux fan at a certain tempature. Maybe this is your problem. Or your aux fan isnt working at all...(*shrug*) this could be the problem. >Thanks in advance! >Ray Bahr Sure....I hope this is a solution... (*Did i do good Daddy Chris ? =) *) - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:55:20 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A Matter of Gearing (*with stats !*) Derek Wrote.... >I made up a program a few years back to analyze some of what you're going >thru when I had the same problems with my car - It shows you the RPMS and >speeds you can expect with various tire, rearend, and transmission gearing. >I put your data into it, and these are the results: Sheesh...I do like asking for help but dang..this is intense. Thanks Derek for the Free Dyno approx. This is VERY close to what i have. Techonology does wonders.... >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >for 5.13 gears: > (*lots of mind boggling stats deleted*) >where the 'ratio' column is the tranny ratio, 'total' column is tranny >gear times rear end ratio. The top chart has RPM's across the top, >and the corresponding speed in the gears for that RPM under it. The >lower chart is the opposite, showing speed across the top, and the RPM's >for each speed in the gears under it. Errrr I belive these stats are a bit off. But close enough. I'm not sure. I didnt get my speedo recalibrated but these seem VERY close to my RL driving in every day. I was pushing @150 MPH in my CAR ?!! Sheesh...this is scary... I'd rather not know these things sometimes. Do you have any way to calculate Acelleration factors ? >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >For ratio 4.88: (*More stats deleted*) >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >For ratio 4.66: (*more stats deleted*) >As to which to use, it depends on when you usually shift. From the above, >it doesn't seem like there's all that much difference - in 1st gear, >if you're shifting at 10000, you get 49 MPH for the 5.33, 51 MPH for the >4.88, and 54 for the 4.66 - only a 5 mph difference! Hopefully you know where >your power band is; will the 4.66 drop you out of your power band when >you shift from one gear to the next, to each of the 4 upper gears? Will >it be more usable on the street? Hmmmm thats true Derek. I didnt think about it that way. I think my concern is acceleration times then speed times. My normal driving doesnt always let me go up to 10000 RPM as my car gets VERY loud and VERY noticeable since its painted almost Arrest-Me-Red Porsche India Red ! Gack ! I'd have to go and monitor when i shift now. I'd say i shift at low RPM's in the 4000 RPM range as just before the power cuts in. Thanks I have to think Again now.... (*theres that word again Chris !*) >P.S. - don't forget to recalibrate the speedo! I didn't recalibrate mines. I did for 4.3 by changing the transmission little plastic gear with the GTS one cause stock is 4.3 for that car i belive. I also think that if i'm going anything over 60MPH i'm speeding so whats the sense of knowing how fast ya going when the Nice Policeman stops you ? =) Plus My speedo only goes to 85 MPH and thats buried half the time. >Derek Deeter derekd@wv.mentorg.com Thanks a Bunch alot Derek ! this is major food for thought !!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:11:05 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Comments from God of Toyota Mods >Jon Writes... >> I always (naively) believed that you match your gear ratios so >> that an upshift at redline puts you at the torque peak of >> the engine in the new gear. The stock toyota ratios for my >> Supra seem to follow this theory for the first 3 gears. Wow ! Thats consistant shifting ! Damm..i still misshift now and then ! >Not a bad rule of thumb, but you gotta remember that with race cars, red >line is kinda hard to define. Like Koji says, he can run his Corolla at >10K for 20 min or better. (Kids, don't try that with the folks Yugo!) >I think Pat Braden says something to the same effect though in the >TPHandbook. I'd like to say in my defense. I use a lot of lubrication and synthetics in my car and motor. Almost everything is synthetic and to prevent wear. Else I would belive my motor would have blown up already. I can sustain the 10k RPM run another time. Infact there is a Road Rally race comming up i've been invited to join because the last winner was a 1986 Prelude and 3 300Z Cars Ones a Twin Turbo for sure, has been invited this time also. I've been invited with 2 of my friends with Mazada RX-7 Turbo II's to provide the spoilers for these guys. Thus I wanna be able to out acellerate and corner those guys. I can out corner any one of them with no problems. The Speed Factor and acceleration time i'm worried about. Top speed means nothing down here. No where to run !!!!! >Really, the _right_ way to do it is to get a complete dyno test run and >then overlay the torque and HP vs RPM curves. Each car/engine will >require something a little different. Kinda expensive, but if you are >into racing it is the way to go. I had a dyno test and i belive my dyno results are almost the same as Derek posted later on. >Chris - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:25:09 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Chassis Posting by me... Errr....I think for SW-11 I posted it was a Turbo MR-2 or such. I think it is. Almost postitive just the newer body style when they switched over to the Turbo models. The Ep's are the Starlets and the EL-something are the Paseos....sorry for the confusion...I apologize. I should have known better. Dang.. - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | | | Allen T "Koji" Kam kamallen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu | | tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | | | Live Life, Taste Death....Speed is Pure !!!!!!! 1980 Toyota Trueno | | Don't let up till you see RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SR-5 Sports Coupe | |Advan Racing / Speed Star Racing / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires| | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:22:47 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Welcome MR-2 Owner >Allow me to introduct to the list Ray Bahr, MR2 racer/suspension guru. >----- Begin Included Message ----- >From bahrr@pictel.com Fri Nov 12 13:42:12 1993 >Hi: > I would like to join this group. I live in New England so I have >access to a number of race tracks as well as nice roads. I own a 1991 >MR-2 Turbo with a HKS >muffler, and I have done a +1 with rims ( Fitti Indy's with 225/50, >205/50-15) Welcome Ray ! By chance, is your car Scarlet Red ? (or what ever its called that year) ? My friend has the similar rims on his MR-2 with Yokohama A008RS II tires on it. > I have built up a 1986 MR2 with a lot of suspension stuff an a >little engine stuff. ( I like to do track events). About your 1986 MR-2. I've played with one. This little car is a very well balanced car. Almost all MR-2's are ready for Road Racing or SCCA. The only Things to change is just the SHocks to TRD ones and Put on a Sway bar kit. The shocks improved the MR-2 i worked on by over 3 seconds and the Sway bars by over a 2 second gap. And this is comming from a guy whom runs a Automatic in SCCA...Boggle that =) >Thanks >Ray Bahr >----- End Included Message ----- >Welcome aboard Ray. We need more suspension gurus. We do have quite a >few folks with a world of knowledge on the MR2 engine, both the older >4AGx series and your 3Tx engine. (Any comments Koji?) Glad to have >you! Heh....Good..i need more suspension help ! I'm building a 1985 MR-2 for my friend with a Supercharged bottom end. I was wondering if you like the the Stock springs or would change it offhand. I would normally say change them right off but the car comes so well balanced from the start. Any comments on what works the best or what you need and don't ? =) Thanks Again Chris... =) -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:03:23 HST From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: A Matter of Gearing >> >>Background of Whole.... >> (*lots of stuff deleted*) >> Next Stoplight race will that Porsche out accelerate me ? >> >>(...other stuff deleted) >Allen, > I am using a 4.1 diff on my starlet, at 100 KPH (62 MPH -- Speed >limit in Ontario), I am reving between 3800 - 4000 RPM. Which is just about >fine, since my cams are rated by TRD as providing power between 3500 - 7500 >+ RPM. At 100 KPH, I can stamp on the gas without shifting down, and the >car will pull great as it revs to the end of its power band.... Using @ a 272 by 7.5 cam both sides ? (Do you know you can put the cams in backwards ? just a thought) > You say that you are reving to 10K, but is the engine actually >developing power at this level? For a 10K RPM engine, you need cams with at >least 320 degrees of duration with equally agressive lift, (is this the >case?) A rear end ratio over 5.0, is suited to such an engine, as it will >quickly allow the car to get into its high RPM band. (You will have little >power below 3000 RPM) I can't remember what the ratios are for the TRD >close ratio gear sets (VS stock), but TRD states that a rear end ratio over >5 needs the TRD gear set, otherwise the car will run out the 1st gear in 6 >ft! My car runs about in the i'd say 7000 rpm range. I can push it to 8k - 10k plus but thats speeds over 100mph which i start to get the shakes. My car is basically a stock motor ;) (don't quote me on this one) so it follows the stock motor power band curve (or supposed to). I run about in the 4k crusing mode and up to about 8k. My car can develop power into the 10k but its pushing it severly at that level. I'd say my power band is from the 4500-7000+ I do not like to run my car at this speed due to driving shakes and my motor sounds likes its gonna blow up at any moment. I can acellerate from 60mph to 100mph very fast which poses no problem. I can keep up with my friends Turbo II Mazda RX-7 with accelleration but i can't pass him or gain on him. Oh and about my car running out of 1st gear in the first 6ft....thats somewhat false....i would be VERY HAPPY if my car went 6ft in first gear. I belive my first gear only goes 5ft max then my little shift light comes on and flashes at me to shift cause i hit 8000 rpm !!! (*sigh*) > I think that if you are starting in second and spinning rubber, >that stepping down to a 4.88 will not affect your launching advantage, you >might actually be better off, as you will be able to travel further in each >gear (all other things being equal). Hmmm..i mean i can spin rubber in second gear if i want to, but not sure if I do step down my acelleration times will go down. I know this is a matter of High end theory and engine work. But I have minimum engine work and want the maximum performance for my car. I know this is confusing but thanks for trying to push me in some sensiable direction. Please point me towards the exit please... Thanks... - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: derekd@wv.MENTORG.COM (Derek Deeter) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:14:26 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: A Matter of Serious Gearing I made up a program a few years back to analyze some of what you're going thru when I had the same problems with my car - It shows you the RPMS and speeds you can expect with various tire, rearend, and transmission gearing. I put your data into it, and these are the results: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- for 5.13 gears: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 5.13 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 5.13, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 13.4919 4 9 14 19 24 29 34 39 44 49 2 1.61 8.2439 8 16 24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80 3 1.38 7.0999 9 18 27 37 46 55 65 74 83 93 4 1.00 5.1300 12 25 38 51 64 77 90 103 116 129 5 0.86 4.4118 15 30 45 60 75 90 105 120 135 150 RPMs for ratio 5.13, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 13.4919 2038 4076 6114 8153 10191 11210 12229 13248 14267 2 1.61 8.2439 1245 2490 3736 4981 6227 6849 7472 8095 8717 3 1.38 7.0999 1072 2145 3217 4290 5363 5899 6435 6971 7508 4 1.00 5.1300 775 1550 2325 3100 3875 4262 4650 5037 5425 5 0.86 4.4118 666 1333 1999 2666 3332 3665 3999 4332 4665 where the 'ratio' column is the tranny ratio, 'total' column is tranny gear times rear end ratio. The top chart has RPM's across the top, and the corresponding speed in the gears for that RPM under it. The lower chart is the opposite, showing speed across the top, and the RPM's for each speed in the gears under it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For ratio 4.88: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 4.88 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 4.88, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 12.8344 5 10 15 20 25 30 36 41 46 51 2 1.61 7.8422 8 16 25 33 42 50 59 67 75 84 3 1.38 6.7539 9 19 29 39 49 58 68 78 88 98 4 1.00 4.8800 13 27 40 54 67 81 94 108 122 135 5 0.86 4.1968 15 31 47 63 78 94 110 126 141 157 RPMs for ratio 4.88, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 12.8344 1938 3877 5816 7755 9694 10664 11633 12602 13572 2 1.61 7.8422 1184 2369 3554 4738 5923 6516 7108 7700 8293 3 1.38 6.7539 1020 2040 3060 4081 5101 5611 6121 6632 7142 4 1.00 4.8800 737 1474 2211 2948 3686 4054 4423 4792 5160 5 0.86 4.1968 634 1268 1902 2536 3170 3487 3804 4121 4438 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- For ratio 4.66: Enter Gear ratio filename: gtst50 Gears are: 2.63 1.61 1.38 1.00 0.86 Enter Rear gear ratio: 4.66 Enter tiresize (as in 225/60-15): 235/50-13 Tire Spec: Width(in) Sidewall Ht(in) Diameter Rev/Mile 235/50-13 9.25 4.63 22.25 906.4 Enter Tire size to use: 22.25 Speeds for ratio 4.66, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000 6000 7000 8000 9000 10000 1 2.63 12.2558 5 10 16 21 27 32 37 43 48 54 2 1.61 7.4886 8 17 26 35 44 53 61 70 79 88 3 1.38 6.4494 10 20 30 41 51 61 71 82 92 102 4 1.00 4.6600 14 28 42 56 71 85 99 113 127 142 5 0.86 4.0076 16 33 49 66 82 99 115 132 148 165 RPMs for ratio 4.66, tiresize 22.25 gear ratio total 10 20 30 40 50 55 60 65 70 1 2.63 12.2558 1851 3703 5554 7406 9257 10183 11109 12034 12960 2 1.61 7.4886 1131 2262 3393 4525 5656 6222 6787 7353 7919 3 1.38 6.4494 974 1948 2922 3897 4871 5358 5845 6333 6820 4 1.00 4.6600 703 1407 2111 2815 3519 3871 4223 4575 4927 5 0.86 4.0076 605 1210 1816 2421 3027 3329 3632 3935 4238 As to which to use, it depends on when you usually shift. From the above, it doesn't seem like there's all that much difference - in 1st gear, if you're shifting at 10000, you get 49 MPH for the 5.33, 51 MPH for the 4.88, and 54 for the 4.66 - only a 5 mph difference! Hopefully you know where your power band is; will the 4.66 drop you out of your power band when you shift from one gear to the next, to each of the 4 upper gears? Will it be more usable on the street? P.S. - don't forget to recalibrate the speedo! -- Derek Deeter derekd@wv.mentorg.com Mentor Graphics Corp. 8005 S.W. Boeckman Rd., Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:37:51 EST To: Raymond Bahr , toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: MR2 Turbo problem > I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo with 52k miles, after about 1 hour of highway > driving ( 70 - 80 mph) OFF boost, my exhaust manifold will glow red! > ( very hot). This is certainly getting too hot. don't let them snow you - you have a real problem. Note that the manifold cracked - that's almost certainly from the excessive thermal strain. It sounds like a combustion problem to me, as if perhaps the timing is too retarded and the exhaust valves open before t