Toyota-Mods Postings Mar 1994

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ _______ ^^^ ^^^ ,' - _ ^^^ ^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^ ^^^ , ' | ^^^ ^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^ ^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^ ^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ P O S T I N G S Mar 1994 ^^^ ^^^ --------------------------- ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: c.pugsley@trl.oz.au Subject: Re: Struts/Disc Brakes To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 11:52:30 +1100 (EST) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Hi there, > An even better upgrade is your rear brakes. You can pull the entire > rear-end out of a late-70's Supra, bolt it into your Celica without any ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > modifications, and get rear disc brakes _plus_ the 7.5" third member, > which is much cheaper to get a limited slip differential for. (Pardon > the dangling participle!) > > Chris > Late 70's supra??!?!?! The supra started here (Australia) in ~84 ish ('Wedge' shaped celica + 6 cylinder engine essentially) What are the earlier supras then? Celicas + 6 cylinder engines and some other go fast/interesting bits? Hmmm a TA22 supra would be interesting.... Cheers, Craig. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Date: Tue, 01 Mar 1994 00:08:10 CST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Shop Manuals For what it's worth: I have the shop manuals (complete with electrical schematic volume) for 1988 Corolla (4AGE/4AF) 1992 Truck (22RE/3VZE <- I think this is correct...covers ALL 92 trucks) If anyone is interested, I also have a monochrome scanner so I could be persuaded (sp?) to do SOME (these suckers are long) scanning and maybe get some of this stuff onto Mosaic? Alternately, people can email me directly and I will try to help out with what I can....no guarantees as to when I get a chance though! Any idea as to what sort of copyright problems there are with this? Is this legal as long as it's only a small section? This may not be appropriate for this list but I am biased and hold the readership of this list in higher regard than the other "generic" list. (No offence intended....there just seem to be more techy-types here! hooray) Regards, Fred. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 09:03:04 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Friday Night's Race Well, I did it again. Let a little stupid thing keep me from winning. As I had posted last week, I was having battery problems. Well, I put a new battery into the Celica and it fired right up. I got to the track and did my hot laps and _killed_ everybody else on the track. Nobody could even keep up. Went in and checked my plugs. Now, instead of being black, they swung the other direction and were white. Fortunately I had some larger jets with me, so I went from 135's to 140's. Now, just to race and win, right? After I get the plugs back in and the carb back together, I try to start the car. Nothing. AARRGGHH! Not again! Well, after panicking for a few minutes, I get the bright idea of checking my connections. I open the battery case behind the seat and, sure enough, the positive lead is loose. Tighten it up and VRROOMM, it cranks right up. Now I'm ready to race. Or so I thought. As I am about to pull back onto the track, I happen to reach behind the seat, and feel that I've forgotten to strap the battery case back down. Oh well, the battery is low in the center of the car, and now I _know_ the connections are tight, surely it won't be too much of a problem. I start 16th (outside, 8th row) of a field of 28 cars. That's a bunch of cars on a 1/3 mile oval. I move to first place by about lap 8 or so, taking my time. Unfortunately, this was probably the roughest race of my life! I got pounded continuously! It seemed that one jerk in a Mustang wouldn't get off my back, and took every opportunity to jam into me. No problem, I race to win, and I knew that when I got to first place he wouldn't be fast enough to bump me. After about 2 laps comfortably in first place, the engine just dies exiting turn 2. Nothing, no lights on the tach, nothing. It takes me about 10 seconds to realize that this is definitely a battery problem. I reach behind the seat and the ground cable is off and floating in mid air. Obviously jarred loose by all the pounding I've been taking. I push it back on without unstrapping and hit the key. The engine cranks, but now I am about a lap or so down with only a couple of laps lefts. Oh well, I came to race, so back onto the track I go. After two laps and a yellow I a working my way back up into the lead pack, still a lap down. On the last lap, who do I pass but my buddy in the Mustang. This must really tick him off, because when I come around the traffic high on turn two, he comes off of the bottom and tries to put me into the wall. Fortunately, I am getting pretty good at figuring out what to do with the car in that sort of situation and I avoid the wall, but I have to let him past me to do so. I think to myself, "You're finished, bud" and fall right on his bumper. He goes hard into turn 3 and I never let off the gas, putting my LF bumper on his RR. He goes sideways, and his natural oversteer drives him right into the infield...and right into the huge lake of a puddle created by all the rain we've been having. I think they had to call in a Navy Seal Team to go in and find that joker. Oh well, I think I just failed my final exam for the "How to make friends and influence others" course. Moral of this story: (Nah, its got nothing to do with idiot drivers. We'll always have to deal with them.) Battery placement and securing is critical to winning races. Bolt that thing down, then add some bungee cords, then a piece of rope for good measure. Finally, wrap it in cardboard to prevent shorts and bungee it again. I guess this is like running out of gas during a race. You gotta do it at least once to realize that it can and will happen. -- _ ____| \__ '82 4x4 Christopher P. Myer {_^____^_} (cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com) @ @ (407) 725-8742 ___ Melbourne, Florida ____/ ||:. '81 Celica GT <_^___81_^__) @ @ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 06:31:44 HST To: toyota-mods-btptan@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Chris's Battery (Bandwidth Waste) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 09:03:04 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Subject: Friday Night's Race >Well, I did it again. Let a little stupid thing keep me from winning. >Well, after panicking for a few minutes, I get the bright idea of >checking my connections. I open the battery case behind the seat and, >sure enough, the positive lead is loose. Tighten it up and VRROOMM, it >cranks right up. Now I'm ready to race. >Moral of this story: (Nah, its got nothing to do with idiot drivers. >We'll always have to deal with them.) Battery placement and securing is >critical to winning races. Bolt that thing down, then add some bungee >cords, then a piece of rope for good measure. Finally, wrap it in >cardboard to prevent shorts and bungee it again. >I guess this is like running out of gas during a race. You gotta do it >at least once to realize that it can and will happen. I know that I have run a race or two without a battery... and this is possible if ya look at all the dragsters etc etc...or without an alternator. Why did you car die and such ? I know that I noticed little or no affection from not having the alternator and the battery hooked up. Thus is why you can remove your negative or even positive side of the battery and still have your car run. Or is this jus my car ? - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 19:10:09 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: MkI MR2 Twin-Turbo? To: Toyota Mods Mailing List Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List A friend of mine mentioned, the other day, that he saw an ad in Turbo Magazine. This ad was supposedly from a U.S. company which offers single and twin turbos for MkI MR2's! Has anyone heard of such a thing? Does anyone know of _any_ company that will turbocharge a 4AGE for a "reasonable" price? Does anyone know of any reasonable way to _supercharge_ a 4AGE? ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Brian Simmers Subject: More info on Brian To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 15:00:54 -0800 (PST) This will help fill in some of the blanks Name : Brian Simmers Location : Simon Fraser University, B.C., Canada Car: 83 Celica GT- wide mags, wheel flares and IRS Engine : 22-RE Mods : Alpine/pioneer system, new paint and tinted windows What I would like to have: Within the next two months I want to lower my car about 1.5 inches. I find the stock handling crappy. The car bounces around at high speeds. I have also considered sway bars. Engine and exhaust can wait, I want to concentate on handling. What I need: Sources? (TRD?) How hard is it to find a set of lowered springs for a Celica. Will just springs cut it or do other things need to be modified. I am open to any other suggestions for my car! Thanks, Brian xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 21:59:06 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: More info on Brian > Name : Brian Simmers > Sources? (TRD?) > How hard is it to find a set of lowered springs for a Celica. > Will just springs cut it or do other things need to be modified. > I am open to any other suggestions for my car! > > Thanks, > Brian Don't know about the Celica but I put Suspension Techniques (I think) on my 88 Corolla GTS without doing anything else to the suspension and noticed a BIGBIGBIG improvement! (these also dropped the car by 1-1.5" which was an added bonus). Can't remember the cost on them though...bought/installed them from my local favorite mechanic. Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 22:11:26 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Larger injectors/HPV3/injector balancing >I'd be interested in doing this on my '86 mr2. Can you send me info The electromotive hpv3 basically does the following (disclaimer: I am not a mechanic-type): picks up crank position signal directly from the crank pulley this ensures reduced "jitter" on timing programmable timing curves based on rpm/temp/etc (just hook up a PC and adjust away!) direct-fire for a 4-cyl setup, this has 2 coils each of which drives 2 plugs. plugs get fired on the power and exhaust strokes so supposedly the plugs stay cleaner as well. The direct-fire system is reputed to provide a spark which lasts 10 times longer than normal and thereby provides a more effective burn. This would suggest that one could then richen-up the fuel mixture to get more horsies and not bog down too bad at idle. With my performance cams I did notice a BIG difference in throttle response when I advanced the timing quite a bit too. Note: I do not yet have then HPV3 installed so I can't report on how well it worked (but I will!). Any experts want to clarify/correct/add on this? >on the ignition system? Also, consider balancing and cleaning your >injectors before doing the other stuff. Grassroots Motorsport >magazine had the injectors done at Marren in Ct. and said there >was about a 25% increase (?) in throttle response and performance >in their testbed '85 mr2. The performance figures I quoted are >probably not accurate but they were impressive for the ~$120 charged >for the service. > >Jeff Is this for real????? For $120 this would be a heck of a deal! What do they mean by 25% increase in performance? More ponies? I guess it would have to be, wouldn't it? Anyone else done this? Experiences? Jeff: any chance I could get a copy faxed/scanned/mailed to me of this article? Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 22:24:39 -0800 (PST) From: Phillip Dang Subject: Re: More info on Brian (springs) To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Cc: toyota-mods mailing list On Thu, 3 Mar 1994 toymod@sysfjo.uucp wrote: [snip] > Don't know about the Celica but I put Suspension Techniques (I think) > on my 88 Corolla GTS without doing anything else to the suspension > and noticed a BIGBIGBIG improvement! (these also dropped the car by > 1-1.5" which was an added bonus). Can't remember the cost on them > though...bought/installed them from my local favorite mechanic. > > Regards, > Fredo Isn't it a good idea to change the struts while you change the springs? BTW, how much were the springs? Speaking of springs, are there any springs that provide the same performance without lowering the body clearence? I've got 13" diameter wheels and lowering the car would only make the front end more susceptible to scratching. :( I would like to move up to the 14", or is it 15" rims as seen on the GT convertibles of the same body type, but I don't want to change the gearing on the speedo to compensate for the larger rims. Bye, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Phillip Dang pdang@ctp.org San Francisco, California 87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, 75K miles xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: Mosiac Svr Access Using LYNX v2.2 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 22:12:04 +0800 (WST) Just grabbed LYNX v2.2 today and set it up (hopefully, correctly). I can access the default site fine, but when I do a lynx http://su102a.ess.harris.com I can get the main menu (great! I thought. It _actually_ works!... I mean lynx, of course the t-m svr is working, right chris? ;-) ) but accessing any (all) of the links off the main menu get me a Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host Any idea what happened here? bentan Found a '80 Celica ST Coupe, 2T-B, 4-spd, only problem (besides price) 'tis Bright, Metallic, PURPLE... :-( xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: fred@osf.org Subject: Re: Larger injectors/HPV3/injector balancing To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 10:23:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: fred@osf.org (Fred Dalrymple) > >on the ignition system? Also, consider balancing and cleaning your > >injectors before doing the other stuff. Grassroots Motorsport > >magazine had the injectors done at Marren in Ct. and said there > >was about a 25% increase (?) in throttle response and performance > >in their testbed '85 mr2. The performance figures I quoted are > >probably not accurate but they were impressive for the ~$120 charged > >for the service. Can someone please post details on how to get a hold of "Marren in Ct." -- just a city name would probably be enough.. thanks-- Fred xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 10:27:41 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Tires Hi, Do any of you racer / auto-x types have experiance with the Briggestone Potenza RE71RAZ tires. How do they compare against the Yoka A-008RS. Thanks Ray xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 05:57:18 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Query Ray > Tires >From bahrr@pictel.com Fri Mar 4 05:28:43 1994 Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 10:27:41 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) Subject: Tires >Hi, Morning or something... TGIF >Do any of you racer / auto-x types have experiance with the Briggestone >Potenza RE71RAZ tires. How do they compare against the Yoka A-008RS. Yes, I do. I got a set and race shaved them. They didn't cut it. The Yokohama's were still better on the track. On the road I belive they were better in the rain though. Although a "brand new" A008 works good in the rain up to 120 or so... >Thanks >Ray - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | Allen T "Koji" Kam tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | Life Life... koji@io.soest.hawaii.edu | | Taste Death... koji%interact.uucp@netcom.com | | Speed is Pure !!!!! | | Don't let up till you see RED !! 1980 Toyota Trueno SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | Love is the only ting dat has 2 be earned... | | Eberry ting else can be hacked ! - Reflex the Kismet Thief of Hearts | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* (*NOTE*): They also have a bad selection in tire sizes. - Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 06:17:29 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Query 3SG motor transplants and Stuff Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 12:39:43 -0500 From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: RWD 3SG conversions..... >Roger wrote about motor transplants and adapters with 3SG motors. Roger, Can you find a 1G-GTE motor ? That could be or a better selection in that range of motor and much BETTER results. BTW whats the difference between Streetable and "race" ? There should be none except for like no lights or such. My car is fully streetable and its also fully raceable. (*shrug*) > I saw a book recently (I walk past a Bookstore called "The Worlds Biggest >Bookstore" to/from work every day) that was entitled "MR2", and it featured >a complete history of the MK1 MR2, including the reason toyota choose to go >supercharged vs turbo. I read this "report" a while ago. Thus is why they changed to a "celica" based motor in the newer MR-2's. Also a Squared motor is more balanced. >Apparently Toyota did evaluate a Turbo 4AGE, but the low end response was >unsastifactory for a production car. Yes that is true. Trust does make a turbo kit for the 4AG motor. >Next they tried the 3SGE, but "The engine leans over to much on its >crank axis to fit in the compact engine bay of the MR2". Yes its not a true squared motor. >This book is also the third source I have come across which has indicated, >that the supercharger on the 4AGZ (which spins at 1.25 times engine speed) >causes the engine to sound like a large vacumn cleaner when at "full tilt" Again not a squared motor engine. >(Hope I don't offend 4AGZ owners), they claim that the engine looses the >"magic note" of the naturally aspirated one (4AGZ does not use TVIS system). Yet again not a squared motor. > Does anyone care about engine note? Not really. Perhaps a little explaination about "squared motors" and such. >From what I understand about Toyota motors, they care more about balance and performance WITH reliablity. If they cannot make their motors "raceable" within their tolerations of noise and balance then they will not and scrap that project. Every Toyota motor like in the Eagle GTP cars is able to be reproduced on a "street" Celica motor of identical type and equal results while still maintaining a comfort and reliablity that is Toyota. Or some nonsense like that. I'll try and find the origional quote. Basically, they do not like Screamers. Like the 18RG motor Ivan "Ironman" uses. I'd say if ya want performance throw in a 1G-GTE motor and make that little car fly !!! =) BTW You Celica owners (See-li-car) from 1985 to present with exceptions of the GTS have "deceptively fast" cars. The suspension and ride inhibits much of the cars performance. A Simple strut change will provide you with a ton of new performance. However doing this you cut down on your acceleration times due to the "lowering" of the body closer to the ground and the weight conversion or transfer is loss. (I think this can be adapted with the right tire and rim selection although and made back up) - Allen T "Koji" Kam *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* | Allen T "Koji" Kam tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu | | Life Life... koji@io.soest.hawaii.edu | | Taste Death... koji%interact.uucp@netcom.com | | Speed is Pure !!!!! | | Don't let up till you see RED !! 1980 Toyota Trueno SR-5 Sports Coupe | | Advan Racing / HKS / MSD / SSR / Toyota Racing Development / Yokohama Tires | | V-8's are a Blast...but i kinna gotta have to save GAS !!! | | How SERIOUS do YOU wanna GET ??!?!?!! Sum times ya GADA pay the Price.... | | Love is the only ting dat has 2 be earned... | | Eberry ting else can be hacked ! - Reflex the Kismet Thief of Hearts | *-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: Phillip Dang Cc: toyota-mods mailing list Subject: Re: More info on Brian (springs) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 94 09:21:51 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com > Phillip Dang writes: > Speaking of springs, are there any springs that provide the same > performance without lowering the body clearence? I looked and looked but didn't find any. Eibach seemed to lower the least, at roughly .5", so I went with them. I've heard that custom springs are not much more expensive than mass produced springs, so that's worth looking into. > don't want to change the gearing on the speedo to compensate for the > larger rims. If you went with lower aspect ratio tires, you might be able to keep the same overall tire diameter. The lower aspect tires would improve your transient response for cornering. > Phillip Dang pdang@ctp.org San Francisco, California Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 13:34:25 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Larger injectors - a cheaper alternative >A few months ago I was trying to price out larger injectors for my 4AGE >and dicovered that these darn things are expensive even from a wrecker >(if you can find any Toyota's that is!). I talked to my much-regarded >favorite mechanic and he said....why not try an adjustable fuel pressure >regulator to up the fuel pressure thereby increasing the fuel flow? >That way if you don't like it you can always adjust it back or down >without having to throw away $400 in injectors? The regulator is going >to run about $50 or so. I am going to try this this spring right I was at a friends house last night who works as a mechanic at a muffler shop, any how we go to talking about EFI's and such, he has worked on a couple Toyota 4 runners, and said that when put into 4WD, the fuel pressure goes up therby providing a richer fuel mixture. The March 94 Fast car mag, has Dyno readings of different air fuel ratios vs RPM, ideally for race engines, the best figures are from 12.x - 13.x while for street engines it is from 13.x to 14.x (sorry don't recall specifics) any how, it seems that there is plenty of room for improvement in your stock fuel system, provided you have the ignition to burn it. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 14:29:36 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Bridgestone Tire Close Out I thought this might interest people!! Ray ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From z-car@Dixie.Com Wed Mar 2 17:59:43 1994 Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 15:22 EST Sender: z-car@dixie.com Subject: Bridgestone Tire Close Out From: z-car@dixie.com (The Z-car List) To: z-car@dixie.com Reply-To: z-car@dixie.com Posted-Date: Wednesday, Mar 02 1994 15:11:54 X-Sequence: 3872 X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu Content-Length: 1408 This is a cross (actually double crossed) post from wheel-to-wheel If anybody's looking for auto-x tires or just a good summer tire this may interest you. (This isn't intended as an advertisment, more of a public service announcement.) -dave IZCC#66 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Fm: Patrick J. Childs 73353,1313 *To: All I talked to Steve Butz, from Blackburn Racing today and he informed me that BBR is liquidating it's entire inventory of Showroom Stock and Racing Slicks. According to Steve, everything is going at $60 per tire! They haven't got anything firmed up yet on pricing, but they are going to do discounts on orders for over 20 tires. He said that they have tons of SR tires, RE71R compound, still in stock, as well as pretty much all sizes of the RE71RAZ and RE71RZ compounds, shaved and full treads. I put RE71Rs on my 240Z, and Peugeot 505STI, and am going to put a set on my Ford Ranger (2WD of course). I got really decent wear from the full treads on the street, not to mention they are lots stickier than regular street tires. :-) The BBR Fax # is (317) 823-0040 or you can call (800) 828-9143 and talk to Barb. Tell her you heard it from me on CompuServe. Pat Childs ---------- Posted by: emory!pc.Trimble.COM!DBALINGI.SALES (David Balingit) ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 15:59:55 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: More info on Brian (springs) To: Phillip Dang Cc: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com, On Thu, 3 Mar 1994, Phillip Dang wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Mar 1994 toymod@sysfjo.uucp wrote: > > [snip] > > Don't know about the Celica but I put Suspension Techniques (I think) > > on my 88 Corolla GTS without doing anything else to the suspension > > and noticed a BIGBIGBIG improvement! (these also dropped the car by > > 1-1.5" which was an added bonus). Can't remember the cost on them > > though...bought/installed them from my local favorite mechanic. > > > > Regards, > > Fredo > > Isn't it a good idea to change the struts while you change the springs? > BTW, how much were the springs? > > Speaking of springs, are there any springs that provide the same > performance without lowering the body clearence? I've got 13" diameter > wheels and lowering the car would only make the front end more > susceptible to scratching. :( I would like to move up to the 14", or is > it 15" rims as seen on the GT convertibles of the same body type, but I > don't want to change the gearing on the speedo to compensate for the > larger rims. > > Bye, > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Phillip Dang pdang@ctp.org San Francisco, California > 87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, 75K miles > To avoid adjusting your speedo, just invest in some lower profile tires on 15" rims. Looks _much_ better! About changing struts: I'm not sure, but a friend of mine has an '85 Celica GTS which he lowered 3" without changing struts! Ride's rough, but handles better. ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 16:10:47 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Query 3SG motor transplants and Stuff To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Fri, 4 Mar 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote: > > I'd say if ya want performance throw in a 1G-GTE motor and make that little > car fly !!! =) > Can you explain for us non-mechanics (assuming I'm not the only one) what the 1G-GTE engine is (i.e., what car it comes from, displacement, etc.)? Much appreciated. ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 05 Mar 1994 12:03:26 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: More info on Brian (springs) >Isn't it a good idea to change the struts while you change the springs? Not strictly required however it may have been a good thing to do if I had had the money at the time. I am still (2 or is it 3 years later) running with the stock struts so I couldn't say how much more struts would do for me.... >BTW, how much were the springs? I honestly can't remember! I seem to recall that most things were around $500 CAN but that may be +- $200. How's that for accuracy! (Sorry) > >Speaking of springs, are there any springs that provide the same >performance without lowering the body clearence? I've got 13" diameter >wheels and lowering the car would only make the front end more >susceptible to scratching. :( I would like to move up to the 14", or is >it 15" rims as seen on the GT convertibles of the same body type, but I >don't want to change the gearing on the speedo to compensate for the >larger rims. I'll leave this to people with REAL knowledge (I don't know!). I too would like to find a buyer who'll give me a reasonable amount of cash (whatever THAT is) for my 14" rims so I can buy 15" rims and go to something like a 205/50 tire. THAT would be deadly!!! > >Bye, >. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >Phillip Dang pdang@ctp.org San Francisco, California >87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, 75K miles Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: John Red-Horse Subject: 22RE Engine Question (Long) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 09:59:18 -0500 (EST) Hello All, I've got myself some sort of engine problem(s) and I'm hoping for some hints on how to proceed (diagnostics and repair strategies). The Situation: The 22RE engine in my 85 4x4 is literally drinking oil. I get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1qt/100miles consumption and I'd like to be able to figure out the culprit. My guess is that it's either the valve train or the rings. I bought the truck used about 6 years ago (it had ~40k miles on it at that time) and it has been somewhat of a oil hog (~1qt/300miles) since that time. Oil comsumption is impossible to assess when buying a used car considering the time constraints one is usually sidled with. Sigh. Anyway, here's some background. When I bought the truck, I did a compression test and a vacuum test and both seemed ``normal''. I'm citing this from memory, but I think that the compression all around was in the 145-150psi range and the vacuum test results were rock solid: steady needle at idle, a quick drop and rise to steady needle at 3.2k rpm. There was no flutter and there was no pulsing drop out. I've run these diagostics from time-to-time, but not on any documentable schedule, so things might've changed significantly since the original/ongoing status. But, there are definitely no oil leaks and, once the engine is warmed up, there are no external signs of oil consumption---it doesn't smoke at all. I'm inclined to say that this due to the catalytic converter, but even at startup, I really only notice ``vapor-like'' exhaust (something I've always attributed to a mixture of cold and water vapor in the exhaust path). The Questions: (1) Obviously, something is terribly wrong here and I'm hoping some of ya'll out there in the mods world are familiar with various ways to diagnose my problem(s). The reason that I'm asking for such things is that the results of the usual compression/vacuum thing didn't predict my original consumption problem. (2) Assuming that these diagnostics are successful, it's clear that some engine work is going to be in the works. Are there things that I can do at this point to beef it up a bit while I'm at it? Cam? Bore? EFI mods? Others? My only criterion for selection will be the price/performance ratio. Thanks for any suggestions (sorry for the long note)... cheers, john -- John Red-Horse jrredho@sandia.gov Structural Dynamics & Vibration Control Sandia National Laboratories (505)845-9190 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 19:07:46 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: fuseable link To: Jonathan Drout Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List , On Sun, 6 Mar 1994, Jonathan Drout wrote: > > I need to access (and replace) the fuseable link in my '86 MR2. > > Does anyone know EXACTLY where it is? > In my 85 the Fusible links were in the engine compartment fusebox that > is basically directly behind the driver seat. The look like small > boxes and are various colours. What makes you think its the FL? A mechanic (friend of the family) told me, although he's not a Toyota expert. My Haynes guide says that the FL I'm looking for is a length of wire which comes from the battery somewhere. (the electrical diagram is very unspecific about where it is and what it looks like) How do you tell if a FL is fried? 3 mechanics say it's the first thing to check--but what else could cause my car to be _DEAD_ (i.e., no power at all)? (to recap for everyone else: I accidentally backwards-boosted my car) ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: k124476@ee.tut.fi (Kalalahti Matti) Subject: Re: Query 3SG motor transplants and Stuff To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca (Darin Ray Hamilton) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 15:56:58 EET Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-mods mailing list) > On Fri, 4 Mar 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote: > > > > > I'd say if ya want performance throw in a 1G-GTE motor and make that little > > car fly !!! =) > > > > Can you explain for us non-mechanics (assuming I'm not the only one) what > the 1G-GTE engine is (i.e., what car it comes from, displacement, etc.)? Celica Supras 82-(85?), possibly Japan only, 2.0L, inline 6 cylinder with two small turbochargers. More than 160hp & 220 Nm, can't remember the exact figures. Should be relatively lightweight and silent engine. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 160hp * 206Nm * '82 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 08:57:44 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: Larger injectors/HPV3/injector balancing > >Can someone please post details on how to get a hold of "Marren in Ct." -- >just a city name would probably be enough.. Taken from the March 94 Turbo & Hi-Tech mag: "Get the Right Injectors" Marren Motor sports 412 Roosevelt Dr. Derby, Connecticut 06418 Tel: 203-732-4565 Fax: 203-734-2629 -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 10:43:06 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: 22RE Engine Question (Long) My guess is it is the valve seals, especially since you have good compression and vacuum. These engines are famous for their valve seals going rock hard and leaking. If you have a source of compressed air you can change them without even removing the head. (Use the compressed air to pressurize the cylinder and hold up the valve while you remove the valve spring) I actually saw on TV two guys changing the seals on this engine. I think it was on TNN on a Sunday. Jon > Hello All, > > I've got myself some sort of engine problem(s) and I'm hoping for some > hints on how to proceed (diagnostics and repair strategies). > > The Situation: > > The 22RE engine in my 85 4x4 is literally drinking oil. I get > somewhere in the neighborhood of 1qt/100miles consumption and I'd like to > be able to figure out the culprit. My guess is that it's either the > valve train or the rings. I bought the truck used about 6 years ago > (it had ~40k miles on it at that time) and it has been somewhat of a > oil hog (~1qt/300miles) since that time. Oil comsumption is > impossible to assess when buying a used car considering the time > constraints one is usually sidled with. Sigh. > > Anyway, here's some background. When I bought the truck, I did a > compression test and a vacuum test and both seemed ``normal''. I'm > citing this from memory, but I think that the compression all around > was in the 145-150psi range and the vacuum test results were rock > solid: steady needle at idle, a quick drop and rise to steady needle > at 3.2k rpm. There was no flutter and there was no pulsing drop out. > I've run these diagostics from time-to-time, but not on any > documentable schedule, so things might've changed significantly since > the original/ongoing status. But, there are definitely no oil leaks > and, once the engine is warmed up, there are no external signs of oil > consumption---it doesn't smoke at all. I'm inclined to say that this > due to the catalytic converter, but even at startup, I really only > notice ``vapor-like'' exhaust (something I've always attributed to a > mixture of cold and water vapor in the exhaust path). > > The Questions: > > (1) Obviously, something is terribly wrong here and I'm hoping some of > ya'll out there in the mods world are familiar with various ways to > diagnose my problem(s). The reason that I'm asking for such things is > that the results of the usual compression/vacuum thing didn't predict > my original consumption problem. > > (2) Assuming that these diagnostics are successful, it's clear that > some engine work is going to be in the works. Are there things that I > can do at this point to beef it up a bit while I'm at it? Cam? Bore? > EFI mods? Others? My only criterion for selection will be the > price/performance ratio. > > Thanks for any suggestions (sorry for the long note)... > > cheers, > john > > -- > John Red-Horse jrredho@sandia.gov > Structural Dynamics & Vibration Control > Sandia National Laboratories (505)845-9190 > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 11:14:42 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: 22RE Engine Question (Long) (First, sorry if any of you were inconvenienced by some computer problems we had here. I don't think it affected the group, but if so I apologize.) Now, Jon makes a good point in response to John's 22RE question about leaking seals. I have been trying to guess what John's problem is ever since he first mentioned it on the list a long time ago, and I agree that it must be leaking, possibly even missing valve stem seals. Unfortunately, that doesn't explain why there isn't any smoke in the exhaust, but let's pursue one thing at a time. You could do as Jon suggests, however you mention adding power while you are in there. Here's another suggestion. Get a 20R head from a junk yard. You should be able to get one for around $30 - $50 US. Clean it up a bit. Send it off and have the deck shave a little bit and a valve job done. Have them install new valve stem seals when they put the valves back in. This shouldn't cost much more than about $60 US. If you are serious about wanting more power, do this as well: Get a higher performance cam from TRD or wherever, and get some stiffer dual valve springs, such as the ones TRD offers. You will see a huge, night and day improvement. Couple this with a good 1 5/8 inch header, and you could see as much as a 40% improvement in HP (up to about 140-150 hp). If you want more, consider doing a little porting and polishing on the head before you send it off for the machine work, and follow the other thread on getting bigger injectors. Good luck. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 12:33:30 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Misc and FTP access.. I have temporarily set up an FTP server. (For you Techies, you are directly FTP'ing to a Macintosh) The following jpeg images are available (you will need to do a binary transfer) corolla.jpeg: 85 Corolla GTS (British) esso.jpeg: Esso FWD starlet glasurit1.jpeg: Glasurit Starlet from Side (82 RWD Starlet -- wild paint job) glasurit2.jpeg: Glasurit starlet from rear glasurit3.jpeg: Glasurit Starlet from front hot_rod.jpeg: British RWD starlet with Hot Rod body kit. pepsi.jpeg: Pepsi starlet starlet.kit.jpeg: 4 door-> 2 door Starlet & body kit starlets.jpeg: Starlets on starting grid starlet.jpeg: (Proposed paint scheme for Roger's Starlet) starlet.wing.jpeg: B/W picture of adjustable rear wing for starlet. (Adaptable to another car) the ip address is 192.75.158.174 -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 11:03:36 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Query 3SG motor transplants and Stuff To: Kalalahti Matti Cc: Toyota-mods mailing list On Mon, 7 Mar 1994, Kalalahti Matti wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Mar 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd say if ya want performance throw in a 1G-GTE motor and make that little > > > car fly !!! =) > > > > > > > Can you explain for us non-mechanics (assuming I'm not the only one) what > > the 1G-GTE engine is (i.e., what car it comes from, displacement, etc.)? > > Celica Supras 82-(85?), possibly Japan only, 2.0L, inline 6 cylinder > with two small turbochargers. More than 160hp & 220 Nm, can't remember > the exact figures. Should be relatively lightweight and silent engine. > I was told by a Toyota specialist that there was not enough room between the rear strut towers on an MR2 to transversely mount a Supra inline-6. Do you know of anyone who has successfully done this procedure? If so, what mods had to be made? ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 13:19:03 -0500 From: John Red-Horse To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: An Update on 22RE Questions (Long, again) Hey Ya'll, Thanks for the prompt responses... Here's an update on things (it's time to eat some crow :) > In article <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> (Wow!), Jim Chott writes: jim> I've got the same engine in the same vehicle. That's incredibly jim> bad oil consumption for it not to be obvious. Does it pass emissions jim> ok? Again like you said the cat may be burning it before it makes jim> it out. It does (or rather has) passed emissions. My suspicion is that the cat is doing the job. jim> But if it's not leaking, it has to be burning it. A friend's jim> 22RE was burning oil at a rate somewhere near yours at 125k miles when jim> he dumped it for a Chevy V-6, but he didn't tear it down to see what jim> was wrong. #Contrition Mode On# You're absolutely right, my question pertained to how to find out where the culprit was, so I decided to take the 30 minutes that I should've taken before posting and do another compression/vacuum check... jim> For a data point, my 22RE has 107k miles, compression is 170 psi for jim> all four cylinders, vacuum is about 19-20" at idle. No noticeable jim> oil burning between 3k mile oil changes. So your compression seems jim> a little low, but nothing drastic. Please post what you find if jim> you don't mind. ...and here're the results: Compression 95-105psi (Before oil) 100-125 (After oil) Vacuum: 15 at idle, somewhat shaky; Dip at throttle opening; 18 at ~3200rpm, steady The diagnosis: Bad rings, probably worn valve guides. #Contrition Mode Off# > In article <9403071543.AA01143@patagonia.bellcore.com>, Jonathan Hacker 21420 writes: jon> My guess is it is the valve seals, especially since you have jon> good compression and vacuum. These engines are famous for their jon> valve seals going rock hard and leaking. Thanks for the tip on this one. It may have had something to do with my earlier problems, but it's now a peripheral concern. jon> If you have a source of compressed air you can change them jon> without even removing the head. (Use the compressed air to jon> pressurize the cylinder and hold up the valve while you remove jon> the valve spring) Isn't this called a ``leak-down test''? I never actually figured out how to do it, but don't you need (1) a special adaptor to screw into the sparkplug receptacle; (2) a way to determine whether the leak is a valve or around the rings? > In article <9403071614.AA00378@su102a.ess.harris.com>, Chris Myer writes: chris> You could do as Jon suggests, however you mention adding power chris> while you are in there. Here's another suggestion. Get a 20R chris> head from a junk yard. You should be able to get one for Well, I talked to someone out there who intimated that there was a head compatibility problem between the 20R and the 22R engines. In fact, this person told me that specifically 85 22RE's were incompatible with other 22RE's. Does this make any sense? I'd like to be armed with more info before I get a new head and take it to the machine shop. chris> around $30 - $50 US. Clean it up a bit. Send it off and have chris> the deck shave a little bit and a valve job done. Have them chris> install new valve stem seals when they put the valves back in. chris> This shouldn't cost much more than about $60 US. If you are chris> serious about wanting more power, do this as well: Get a chris> higher performance cam from TRD or wherever, and get some chris> stiffer dual valve springs, such as the ones TRD offers. You chris> will see a huge, night and day improvement. Couple this with chris> a good 1 5/8 inch header, and you could see as much as a 40% chris> improvement in HP (up to about 140-150 hp). Yes Chris, this is precisely the detail that I'm looking for here. The increases that you describe should be sufficient---now I'll get to use that Mosaic server for something other than casual viewing :). Thanks again to all. This is all very good info, I'll followup when I bring this thing to a conclusion. cheers, john xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 14:24:41 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: An Update on 22RE Questions (Long, again) I'm not going to repost all of the original to which I am responding (hope everybody got it!) Anyway, I've never heard of an incompatibility problem with any 2xR head/block combo, but that certainly doesn't mean it couldn't exist. One call to RJ at TRD will answer this question quickly! Probably the only thing I'd be concerned about is the fact that a 20R has a different intake than the 22R. This means that you'd probably have to drop your EFI for a carb, a bit of info that I neglected to think of with my earlier post. (*Sorry!*) Another possible source of info on this is LC Engineering, in the Suppliers listing. I think they have the kit to do EFI-to-carb conversions, but they are not real big on helping you unless you are gonna spend some money. GET THE CATALOG! These guys are 2xR engine gurus and my (older) catalog has a wealth of info! If you're gonna have to rebuild your low-end, seriously consider the TRD 10.5:1 pistons. Yes, this means you'll have to run super-unleaded the rest of your engine's life, but that might not be too bad. Also, I'd consider getting the bottom end balanced. Except for the crank, this isn't anything you can't do yourself, provided you are now bashful, and have a die grinder and a good scale. How about some comments on these suggestions. Anyone? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:31:10 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: An Update on 22RE Questions (Long, again) (stuff deleted) > >If you're gonna have to rebuild your low-end, seriously consider the TRD >10.5:1 pistons. Yes, this means you'll have to run super-unleaded the >rest of your engine's life, but that might not be too bad. Also, I'd >consider getting the bottom end balanced. Except for the crank, this >isn't anything you can't do yourself, provided you are now bashful, and >have a die grinder and a good scale. > >How about some comments on these suggestions. Anyone? Apparently the manufacturing tolerances are so good on Toyota's, and TRD's parts that if bought as a matching set (i.e you buy all the rods/pistons together), you don't have to balance the parts. (This info from a Fast car mag. on modifying toyotas) I have never had my engine balanced (Toyota/TRD parts), nor have I lived to regret it. If however you are buying parts from an after market company, who has outsourced the components, then I would be inclined to have the parts balanced. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Craig Pugsley Subject: corolla.jpeg: 85 Corolla GTS (British) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:41:34 +1000 (EST) Hi there, I just had a look at some of the JPG's at the FTP site., specifically the "corolla.jpeg: 85 Corolla GTS (British)" Now, can anyone tell me more about these? EG Years made: Late '82 - early '85 ?? (Apparent local availability) Engine: 4A / 2T?? (Rear wheel drive) Engines that will fit it: 3TGTEU 4AG/4AGZE 7MGTE :-) (Hmm.. maybe not) What's the story with the different body styles? Did the US/Canada have these fixed headlights or the pop up ones only? Also, ***Are the pop up light front panels interchangable with the fixed headlight models, and ARE THESE PANELS THE SAME AS THE CELICA** The reason I ask this is our local models had the fixed lights, so if I can get one with a smashed front (ie cheap) and put a pop up light front on it it would look very different to anything else here. Cheers, Craig. PS if anyone has a picture of a pop up light model it would be much appreciated if you could email it to me (JPG format preferred) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 18:55:16 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: 1G-GTE in an MR2 To: Toyota Mods Mailing List On Mon, 7 Mar 1994, Kalalahti Matti wrote: > > > On Fri, 4 Mar 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd say if ya want performance throw in a 1G-GTE motor and make that little > > > car fly !!! =) > > > > > > > Can you explain for us non-mechanics (assuming I'm not the only one) what > > the 1G-GTE engine is (i.e., what car it comes from, displacement, etc.)? > > Celica Supras 82-(85?), possibly Japan only, 2.0L, inline 6 cylinder > with two small turbochargers. More than 160hp & 220 Nm, can't remember > the exact figures. Should be relatively lightweight and silent engine. > I was told by a Toyota specialist that there was not enough room between the rear strut towers on an MR2 to transversely mount a Supra inline-6. Do you know of anyone who has successfully done this procedure? If so, what mods had to be made? ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: John Red-Horse Subject: More Regarding that Blasted 22RE To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 21:43:31 -0500 (EST) As Chris Myer suggested, I gave RJ at TRD a call about my engine. Here are a couple of things that he brought up during that conversation: (1) Between early and late 85 (8/84 production) and later, the deck height of the heads was decreased from 100mm to 96mm. He felt that this difference was sufficient to rule out machining a 20R head for placement on a later 22R block. He had some very positive things to say about the later 22R head. (2) Based on mileage alone, he seemed confident that the valves, guides (obviously these would need some machining) and possibly valve springs (here, he definitely was against dual springs) would be ok. He suggested replacing the cam with one possessing the same duration, but more lift. He didn't give me a part number, but I got the feeling that he had a particular one in mind. He also suggested replacing the rocker arm assembly. These two items were $181 and $160, respectively. (3) He suggested boring the cylinders to .080 (!) over and buying newer pistons. $400/set (ouch!). (4) Finally, on the exhaust, he suggested a 2" header and buying a 2 liter and over catalytic converter (the cat can be gotten at any automotive parts warehouse). Header $269. Chris, perhaps the difference in the header size that you suggested (1 5/8") and the one he brought up was due to the displacement increase. I didn't think to ask him. I will if I decide to proceed without a bore. I should also mention that all of the work that he suggested would be compliant with emissions regulations. Thanks to all, I'll keep you posted (if I'm not already in your KILLFILE equivalents :)... cheers, john -- John Red-Horse jrredho@sandia.gov Structural Dynamics & Vibration Control Sandia National Laboratories (505)845-9190 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: jrredho@universe.digex.net, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: An Update on 22RE Questions (Long, again) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 2:04:51 PST From: John Red-Horse > >You're absolutely right, my question pertained to how to find out >where the culprit was, so I decided to take the 30 minutes that I >should've taken before posting and do another compression/vacuum check... > > jim> For a data point, my 22RE has 107k miles, compression is 170 psi for > jim> all four cylinders, vacuum is about 19-20" at idle. No noticeable > jim> oil burning between 3k mile oil changes. So your compression seems > jim> a little low, but nothing drastic. Please post what you find if > jim> you don't mind. > >...and here're the results: Compression 95-105psi (Before oil) > 100-125 (After oil) > > Vacuum: 15 at idle, somewhat shaky; > Dip at throttle opening; > 18 at ~3200rpm, steady > >The diagnosis: Bad rings, probably worn valve guides. I did a compression test on my 22R engine about a year ago. It took me about six to nine cranks to get up to 95-105. I put some oil in and got about 110. I concluded I had bad rings. I contribute all this to lack of oil twice in the car's life. I've heard screeching inside the engine, checked the dipstick and noticed I had almost no oil. This was a coupla thousands of miles ago, but I decided I'll just run the car until it dies (and of course I now take better car of my car since my college daze). Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 08:53:59 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: More Regarding that Blasted 22RE A few comments... > (1) Between early and late 85 (8/84 production) and later, the deck > height of the heads was decreased from 100mm to 96mm. He felt that > this difference was sufficient to rule out machining a 20R head for > placement on a later 22R block. He had some very positive things to > say about the later 22R head. This is important/interesting info! Can you comment on what he said about the later 22R head? I am wondering if you were building a pre-85 22R block if he likes the post-85 22R head _better_ than the 20R head. Koji, have you ever heard anything about this? > (2) Based on mileage alone, he seemed confident that the valves, > guides (obviously these would need some machining) and possibly valve > springs (here, he definitely was against dual springs) would be ok. > He suggested replacing the cam with one possessing the same duration, > but more lift. He didn't give me a part number, but I got the feeling > that he had a particular one in mind. He also suggested replacing the > rocker arm assembly. These two items were $181 and $160, > respectively. Sometimes you gotta press RJ a bit for the details. He gives them happily, but will just as happily make an off the cuff statement and let you go off guessing. OK, I stand ready to blaspheme the omniscient RJ (actually, I've disagreed with him several times before) (*slander!*). Dual valve springs are CRITICAL (IMHO) on any high performance engine. Not only do they ensure that there is no valve float at high RPM by increasing the seat pressure, but they also prevent harmonics. Its like this: Any spring has a harmonic frequency. This is evident in a suspension spring going down a washboard road. Ever notice that at some speeds the ride gets so bad the car seems like its gonna explode (overshoot), and then you can find another speed where it kinda smooths out a bit (float)? That's fine on a washboard road, but in your valve train, you want the valve to follow the cam lobe _exactly_. Double springs help ensure this, by giving each valve two different harmonics. When one spring is having trouble with the frequency, the other can be depended on. On the other hand, it is a common fallacy to try to put too much seat pressure on your valves, and that just steals New rocker arms are a good idea, and I've been told to always get the arms at the same place you get the cam. If not, or if you just change the cam, the dissimilar metals can cause accelerated wear. (Actually, don't freak if you changed your cam and didn't change your rockers. I think this is more of a "best-case situation rather than a "must do".) > (4) Finally, on the exhaust, he suggested a 2" header and buying a 2 > liter and over catalytic converter (the cat can be gotten at any > automotive parts warehouse). Header $269. > > Chris, perhaps the difference in the header size that you suggested (1 > 5/8") and the one he brought up was due to the displacement increase. > I didn't think to ask him. I will if I decide to proceed without a > bore. Yeah, possibly. See what the folks at LC engineering suggest. They base their recommendations on the carb/cam combo you have (which is how it should be done.) > I should also mention that all of the work that he suggested would be > compliant with emissions regulations. Although all my street vehicles happen to be legal, I am very fortunate to live where there are no inspections. To me, if you're gonna put a cat on a hp engine, you might as well save your money in the first place and not bother doing anything. A cat implies that you also have your EGR and everything else in place, an that _sux_. (pardon my french) I may be wrong, but you take identical 1978 Celica's, and put $700 into one and keep it legal, and give me the other and let me do _free_ stuff, like taking all that crap off and doing some minor improvements, and I'll betcha I'll keep up or win any race you want to try. (and then I've still got $700 to do with as I please!) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:39:38 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Re: corolla.jpeg: 85 Corolla GTS (British) > >I just had a look at some of the JPG's at the FTP site., specifically >the "corolla.jpeg: 85 Corolla GTS (British)" > >Now, can anyone tell me more about these? > >EG >Years made: Late '82 - early '85 ?? (Apparent local availability) >Engine: 4A / 2T?? (Rear wheel drive) >Engines that will fit it: 3TGTEU 4AG/4AGZE 7MGTE :-) (Hmm.. maybe not) > This model is actually called a Corolla GT outside north america, They were made from 84-87, and came with the 4AGE. The 3TGTE,4AGZE,(Mazda 13B rotary), 2TG, have made its way into these cars, of course some fits are easier than others.. >What's the story with the different body styles? Did the US/Canada have >these fixed headlights or the pop up ones only? >Also, ***Are the pop up light front panels interchangable with the >fixed headlight models, and ARE THESE PANELS THE SAME AS THE CELICA** > In Canada & US, it is called the Corolla GTS, and they also come with a 4AGE. They also only came with pop-up headlights. If you have ever seen these cars side by side (I have in Barbados), then you will notice that the corollas with the popup headlights have a lower sloping hood. (Something to do with headlight laws back then, and max/min height above the ground). In any event, you would have to change both fenders (1/4 panels), hood, lights, and front grille. It is possible, and nothing a good body work guy couldn't accomplish. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: John Red-Horse Subject: Re: More Regarding that Blasted 22RE To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 12:22:17 -0500 (EST) Chris Myer wrote: > > A few comments... > > Sometimes you gotta press RJ a bit for the details. He gives them > happily, but will just as happily make an off the cuff statement and let > you go off guessing. > I tried to do this, but he talks fast and I was taking notes... > OK, I stand ready to blaspheme the omniscient RJ (actually, I've > disagreed with him several times before) (*slander!*). Dual valve Critical consideration is *not* blasphemous (sp?). > springs are CRITICAL (IMHO) on any high performance engine. Not only do > they ensure that there is no valve float at high RPM by increasing the > seat pressure, but they also prevent harmonics. Its like this: Any > spring has a harmonic frequency. This is evident in a suspension spring > going down a washboard road. Ever notice that at some speeds the ride > gets so bad the car seems like its gonna explode (overshoot), and then > you can find another speed where it kinda smooths out a bit (float)? > That's fine on a washboard road, but in your valve train, you want the > valve to follow the cam lobe _exactly_. Double springs help ensure > this, by giving each valve two different harmonics. When one spring is > having trouble with the frequency, the other can be depended on. On the > other hand, it is a common fallacy to try to put too much seat pressure > on your valves, and that just steals I asked him to explain this point---and he did. He mentioned the points that you are citing, but he said that the resonance thing was overplayed. Further, he mentioned that there were two drawbacks (you touch on these as well): (1) increased cam wear, and (2) increased wear on the valves and valve seats. BTW, I forget the RPM levels that he was talking about, but I mentioned that one of my goals was to concentrate on lower-end torque. Perhaps this is why the spring resonance was not as much of a factor. > > Yeah, possibly. See what the folks at LC engineering suggest. They > base their recommendations on the carb/cam combo you have (which is how > it should be done.) > Good idea. > > I should also mention that all of the work that he suggested would be > > compliant with emissions regulations. > > Although all my street vehicles happen to be legal, I am very fortunate > to live where there are no inspections. To me, if you're gonna put a Here in Albuquerque (actually it's the entire county---I don't live in town) we're a borderline EPA region. We are always tested every couple of years, but (I believe) random vehicles can be tested on any given year. > cat on a hp engine, you might as well save your money in the first place > and not bother doing anything. A cat implies that you also have your > EGR and everything else in place, an that _sux_. (pardon my french) I > may be wrong, but you take identical 1978 Celica's, and put $700 into > one and keep it legal, and give me the other and let me do _free_ stuff, > like taking all that crap off and doing some minor improvements, and > I'll betcha I'll keep up or win any race you want to try. > I'm in no position to argue on this point, but I seem to remember a study done in California (I'm *certain* that it was in no way politically motivated :) that indicated that some fairly large portion of the pollution contribution came from pre-emission controlled cars (it was a big percentage) even though they made up a very small portion of the vehicle population (it was a very small proportion). So, for most of us, regulations or no, it's probably a good idea to leave the EGR, etc in-place. Note that I am not talking about an HP engine, I'm talking about a higher-than-stock-performance engine. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 14:11:55 -0800 From: Joe Woodsprite To: jrredho@universe.digex.net, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: More Regarding that Blasted 22RE I'm in no position to argue on this point, but I seem to remember a study done in California (I'm *certain* that it was in no way politically motivated :) that indicated that some fairly large portion of the pollution contribution came from pre-emission controlled cars (it was a big percentage) even though they made up a very small portion of the vehicle population (it was a very small proportion). So, for most of us, regulations or no, it's probably a good idea to leave the EGR, etc in-place. Note that I am not talking about an HP engine, I'm talking about a higher-than-stock-performance engine. As I recall, what I read of this study (C&D refers to it often) 10% of the cars on the road produce 90% of the polution. These are the vehicles which are quite poorly maintained and/or past the end of their useful life. As an interesting side note, simply preforming a tune-up on most of these cars would reduce polution more than replacing 10 normal cars with electrics according to Car and Driver. A bit off the subject again, Woodsprite ******************************************************************************* ** * 1983 Celica ST * Joe Woodsprite *** ** Looking for Julie, * * Unsafe at any speed *** ** Whereever I go. * I don't drive * *** ** --- * fast. * lantera@kira.csos.orst.edu *** ** I'll do what it * I fly low. * lanteran@xanth.cs.orst.edu *** ** takes to find her. * * *** ** * 72 Honda CB350 * *** ******************************************************************************* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 16:22:55 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Carb Rebuilding Well, they've started inspecting our racing class pretty close lately, so I am figuring sooner or later they're gonna find my illegal Weber Carb. And when that happens, I want to have a "legal" one ready, so I started rebuilding the original carb that came with my 20R engine. In my usual "charge ahead and figure it out after you broke it style." Below is a bit of info so you won't have to break it first. On the stock carbs (made by Aisan, anyhow), the two screws that hold the round plates for the choke and the throttle speed adjustment are kinda "crimped" into place. That is, once they are screwed through the plate and into the twisting rod, the manufacturer buggers up the protruding end of the screw so that it won't vibrate loose and fall into your engine. Well, I didn't figure this out until on the last set, when the screw's head twisted off instead of backing out. Basically, this means I trashed the carb, unless I want to put in more time than the thing is worth trying to drill the hole out and tap some new threads into the rod. Nah. I've got another carb laying around, I think. Moral to this story: Don't try to remove the plates and linkage from the stock carbs unless you absolutely HAVE to. If you really feel it is necessary, us a small grinder on the end of a dremel tool or similar and clean up the end of the screw so it will back out and not twist the head off. Then, have some new screws handy, and don't try to put the same screw with the bugger'd up end bach in the rod. FWIW Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 09 Mar 1994 16:40:17 -0500 (EST) From: SSOONG@umiami.ir.miami.edu Subject: 4AGE mods To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com I am new to the list, please forgive me if it is a dump question. I want to try some low cost and easy to do mods on my 88 Corolla GTS to increase the preformance and power. What is the first step I can do? I received a catalog from TRD and the parts seem to be expensive. Thanks Simon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 17:13:25 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Chris's Stock Carb Rebuild Typs Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 16:22:55 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Carb Rebuilding >Well, they've started inspecting our racing class pretty close lately, >so I am figuring sooner or later they're gonna find my illegal Weber >Carb. (*gasp*) Chris Cheating !?!?!?! ;) >And when that happens, I want to have a "legal" one ready, so I >started rebuilding the original carb that came with my 20R engine. Chris.... try find a Datsun 210 or similar carb or even one from a Truck. The Asian carb's are all "universal" so to speak and the jetting is bigger on the Datsuns then the Toyota's. If all else fails... take a drill bit to the jets... sooner or later with ya "Progressive type carb" ya gonna have to do that when ya run out of jet sizing. >FWIW Eh ? Wot dat mean ? >Chris - Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 09 Mar 1994 21:28:16 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: 4AGE mods >I am new to the list, please forgive me if it is a dump question. >I want to try some low cost and easy to do mods on my 88 Corolla GTS(4AGE). >What is the first step First off: Howdy! But who the heck are you? We are such a personal group around here that everyone (or maybe just me!) needs to know your name or we begin to feel lonely! Second: THANK GOD. Someone else with an 88 'Rolla GTS! I am no longer alone here! Lastly: What sort of range do you have in mind for "low-cost"? What area of the car did you want to tackle? Are you interested in performance or handling? (or cosmetics) Will you be doing the work yourself or having it done? Are you doing any of the "obvious" things like running synthetic oil and changing it every 5000km? How many km/miles on this car? Just for me: What color is it? What stereo? Stock aluminum rims? Did you buy it new or used? Spoiler? Details.....need details!!! (Yes, I positively LOVE mine!) If you're interested in what I did to mine, drop me some email and we can chat offline so I don't bore everyone with my car-worship! Regards, Fredo (a member of that oh-so-friendly bunch of coconuts we call the toyota-mods group!) ... Not much sleep LAST nite! ... (fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com) 88 Corolla GTS (CSP) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 22:12:51 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Mods for my '86 MR2 (4AGE) To: Toyota Mods Mailing List Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List Things seem quiet right now, so I'll ask a question many of you can help me with. (Ahhhh... nothin' like ending a sentence with a preposition) I'm planning to spend approx. Cdn$800 on engine improvements, and I'd like some opinions on what to do. NOTE: I'm not including new exhaust or disabling the EGR in said $800. (I'm doing both anyways... the exhaust may be a straight pipe with no cat' and a performance muffler of some kind) Thanx in advance... ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 01:12:16 -0800 To: SSOONG@umiami.ir.miami.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: 4AGE mods On Mar 9, 4:40pm, SSOONG@umiami.ir.miami.edu wrote: > Subject: 4AGE mods > I am new to the list, please forgive me if it is a dump question. > I want to try some low cost and easy to do mods on my 88 Corolla GTS to > increase the preformance and power. What is the first step I can do? > I received a catalog from TRD and the parts seem to be expensive. Coooooool, another Corolla/4AG modder. Come join us. Just out of curiosity what is your name. I am assuming Soong is last name? You will notice that this is a very diverse group... more like an international crowd. As for your mod questions what are you looking for? Better handling? There are alot of aftermarket springs, shocks, etc. out there. If you are looking for springs for more street applications give Eibachs a try. They are nice progressive rate springs and not only does it improve upon handling it also help reduce a need of a kidney belt. And if you wish a set of adjustable struts/shocks would come in handy just Koji (a.k.a. Allen Kam). Ask him about dating and suspension *ha ha*. For low buck power increase... a good exhaust system is quite effective. Take a look at some HKS stuff I have gotten great results from them. Help the engine breathe a little better and put a sh_t eatting grin from ear to ear. *haha* Did you receive a list of vendors to contact. It maybe an idea to look at other vendors as well. Got any questions... just post away. Laters, Allan Chen Silicon Graphics Inc. Mountain View, CA allanc@sgi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, tomj@orl.mmc.com Subject: Re: Chris's Stock Carb Rebuild Typs Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:14:20 -0500 From: Tom Julien >>And when that happens, I want to have a "legal" one ready, so I >>started rebuilding the original carb that came with my 20R engine. > >Chris.... try find a Datsun 210 or similar carb or even one from a Truck. >The Asian carb's are all "universal" so to speak and the jetting is bigger >on the Datsuns then the Toyota's. If all else fails... take a drill bit to the Just a note, the 210 also uses a Hitachi carb, which won't help you much Chris, so take care in your selection. Good advice Koj- /************************************************************* Thomas J. Julien E-Mail: tomj@orl.mmc.com Engineer, Image Processing Lab Tel: 407-356-3442 Martin Marietta Corp. Fax: 407-356-8944 *************************************************************/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 09:57:10 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: 4AGE mods To: Allan Chen Cc: SSOONG@umiami.ir.miami.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Thu, 10 Mar 1994, Allan Chen wrote: > For low buck power increase... a good exhaust system is quite > effective. Take a look at some HKS stuff I have gotten great results from them. > Help the engine breathe a little better and put a sh_t eatting grin from ear > to ear. *haha* > > Did you receive a list of vendors to contact. It maybe an idea to look > at other vendors as well. Got any questions... just post away. I'm considering a straight-pipe-to-performance-muffler-with-no-cat' setup in my 4AGE ('86 MR2). [note: to emmissions laws here... yet] How would this compare to an HKS system, in terms of performance? Also... any _muffler_ suggestions? (SuperTrapps are too expensive and I don't want something I have to fiddle with... and noise isn't an issue so long as it's within legal limits) Thanx... ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 13:21:37 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: 4AGE mods > I'm considering a straight-pipe-to-performance-muffler-with-no-cat' setup > in my 4AGE ('86 MR2). > [note: to emmissions laws here... yet] > > How would this compare to an HKS system, in terms of performance? > > Also... any _muffler_ suggestions? > (SuperTrapps are too expensive and I don't want something I have to fiddle > with... and noise isn't an issue so long as it's within legal limits) Get a Borla! (Ha ha, just kidding, I think those things go for about $500!) Seriously, if you are going to fart around with the exhaust (no pun intended) at least get yourself a good header. If you get the "no smog" kind, then you can rip out all of your EGR system as well! This will help you quite a bit. I have a report on mufflers at home. I'll try to get it and make a recommendation from it. They rated everything from Borla on down, and its amazing how close in performance a much cheaper muffler is to the big dollar types. Of course, the Borla has a million mile guarantee, and is a beautiful, cylindrical, stainless steel thing. But probably not worth $500 to the average Toy-Mod'er. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 19:37:38 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Mods for my '86 MR2 (4AGE) >From: Darin Ray Hamilton > >I'm planning to spend approx. Cdn$800 on engine improvements, and I'd >like some opinions on what to do. Drop the stock air-box and go to a cylindrical K&N. This will match nicely with your exhaust system. I did the cams in my 'Rolla (4AGE) and couldn't say that it was really worth the $$$ (unless you can do it yourself?). Experts: is a thinner head gasket (raised compression) maybe a good thing? probably cheap especially if you can do it yourself. Any possibility of finding the bits for a supercharged 4AGE at a wrecker somewhere? Someone once pointed out that if you get one that was in a head-on collision the engine should be darn near perfect (ahh, the novelty of a mid-engine!). Richen up the mixture (raise fuel pressure/adjust the return spring on the air-flow-meter) and get a juicier ignition system. Not sure how great these mods are but they will DEFINATELY add up to less than $800! There...now all we need are for the experts to grab/smash these ideas and run with them.....just thought I'd get the ball rolling! (Note: I am NOT an expert!) > >NOTE: I'm not including new exhaust or disabling the EGR in said $800. >(I'm doing both anyways... the exhaust may be a straight pipe with no >cat' and a performance muffler of some kind) I assume this will be a large-diameter (whatever that is...anyone?) pipe? I have heard some nasty things about the SuperTrapp CD muffies....something to do with constantly picking up your discs off the ground! > >Thanx in advance... > >...Darin Fredo. (ever come to Winnipeg, MB?) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: Twin Carb Tuning - Howto. To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 14:01:14 +0800 (WST) Hi all. Got me a 2T-B here with twin carbs. Never messed with twin carbs before so I'm wondering: how the heck do I balance the two carbs? I hear the impact of having one carb set different from the other can be quite disastrous... (?) bentan '80 Celica (TA40/2T-B) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Dirk Sieber Subject: Ideas for '86 Celica GT-S To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 22:20:08 PST Hi folks, Guess I should introduce myself... my name's Dirk, and I'm a pretty new addition to this list. Thought I'd finally get around to putting my $0.02 in... ;-) As it seems to be the question of the week, I too will ask for suggestions from all you folks who know better than me where I should start. I've got an '86 Toyota Celica GT-S in pretty good condition, with about 120,000kms on it. I'm looking at (hopefully) improving the performance a little, at (hopefully) a minimal cost. I'm a student, so I can't exactly afford to add thousands to the money I already spent on the car. ;-) At the moment, it's completely stock, aside from my going to slightly wider tires (215/60R14's instead of the stock 205's). I'm looking for suggestions to either get a bit more power out of it, or better handling (but preferrably the first before the second). Ideas or comments are welcome. I'm new to this sort of thing, as this is the first car I've ever owned, so even obvious things are welcome, as I probably don't know them. I've got access to all sorts of tools, and I'm reasonably mechanically adept, so I should be able to tackle reasonably simple things myself. As an aside, a guy I know in Vancouver once mentioned the possibility of turbo-charging the engine that's in the car. I realise this is probably an expensive option, and don't think I'd be doing it any time soon, but it still raised a few questions. What is that likely to do to the expected lifespan of the engine? What else would have to be modified/replaced, aside from the juggling needed to actually fit a turbo? Would you need to change the F.I. computer to deal with the change in air input, etc, or is it still within the bounds of the stock system? Is it generally a good or bad idea? ;-) Like I said, any comments are welcome, either to the list, or feel free to mail me direct. Thanks, -==- -- Dirk Sieber... dsieber@unixg.ubc.ca | This is a test... this is only a test Any similarities between what I say and | If this were a real emergency, we'd what I mean is completely coincidental | all be dead by now. :-) Amiga 3000/25 w/386 BB & 14.4k :-) | Flames cheerfully directed to /dev/null. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: 2T(-B) Manual(s) - Wanted To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 14:23:25 +0800 (WST) Anyone know where I could get the manuals (racing manual, service manual, etc) for the 2T? bentan '80 Celica ST (TA40/2T-B) Stolen .sig follows: ________________________ ---- | | |-\_ ---- | | | |__\ \o/ ---- | |-| | | ^^OO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^OO^^^ O^^O^^ _/ \_ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 08:39:36 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: me/mine/mods (update) Our friend Ben in Singapore has gotten himself a new car to replace his smooshed Corolla. Hope you can avoid the trucks a bit better with this one! ----- Begin Included Message ----- Here's an update of my data since I signed on to toy-mods. Model: '80 Celica 1.6ST (least that's what we call it..) Chassis: TA40 Engine: 2T-B Mods: - Suspension Lowered - Large bore free flowing exhaust. But no extractor. - 60KV Coil (Bosch Supercoil) - 2 x K&N filters - Rear Spoiler (ok.. so this doesn't really count... ) Mods Very Soon to be done: - 4X (4+1) speed gearbox - Electronic Ignition Mods being Considered: - CAM (hi-lift) - sidedrafts - extractor for exhaust bentan ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: CAM / Carb / Extractor - Which One First..? To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 22:28:21 +0800 (WST) Selamat Hari Raya (ignore.. traditional greeting in some parts of Singapore during this season) Got me a chicken and egg problem here. I'd like to do up the exhaust of my Celica with an extractor (it's already got a large bore, free flowing system), and I'd also like to dump the mini stock twin carbs to go for a pair of sidedrafts, and also (don't we all have long wish lists..) swap out the stock CAM for something with a little more lift. However, with the cost of mods being what they are, I can only do One of them at a time, with the expected delay between each being 2 months (unless something else financially draining comes up, or I manage to get some decent prize money from the coming kart race..) What I'd like to know is: Which goes first? I figure before the engine starts to blow more air than it already does (i.e carb/cam upgrade) I should make sure the air is gonna get out well. i.e. do the exhaust up with the extractor first. Right? Wrong? Maybe? But from here on, I'm lost. CAM before Carb: not enough Fuel-Air mix going in on hi-lift..? Carb before CAM: what's the carb feeding if the engine don't draw that much? argh! One more thing. Wonder if I'm gonna need to upgrade the fuel pump. Thanks for all the help so far. bentan '80 Celica (TA40/2T-B) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 09:52:17 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: CAM / Carb / Extractor - Which One First..? > Selamat Hari Raya (ignore.. traditional greeting in some parts of Singapore > during this season) Wha'sup, Homey? (Ignore...traditional greeting here in Florida) > Got me a chicken and egg problem here. I'd like to do up the exhaust of my > Celica with an extractor (it's already got a large bore, free flowing > system), and I'd also like to dump the mini stock twin carbs to go for a > pair of sidedrafts, and also (don't we all have long wish lists..) swap out > the stock CAM for something with a little more lift. However, with the cost > of mods being what they are, I can only do One of them at a time, with the > expected delay between each being 2 months (unless something else > financially draining comes up, or I manage to get some decent prize money > from the coming kart race..) > > What I'd like to know is: Which goes first? Ah, but a question first: What are you refering to as an "extractor"? Is this what I call a header? If so, you are already flowing quite a bit of exhaust with your free flow system. Keep in mind that a header isn't a do-all end-all performance optimizer. If you just take the muffler off of a stock exhaust manifold, you are already flowing enough, and adding a header will only fine-tune your performance. > > I figure before the engine starts to blow more air than it already does (i.e > carb/cam upgrade) I should make sure the air is gonna get out well. i.e. do > the exhaust up with the extractor first. Right? Wrong? Maybe? > > But from here on, I'm lost. CAM before Carb: not enough Fuel-Air mix going > in on hi-lift..? Carb before CAM: what's the carb feeding if the engine > don't draw that much? argh! Personally, I'd add things that will give me immediate bang for my buck. Since you have dual carbs already, I'd do the cam first, then the carb, then the header. Obviously your stock cam/carb combo isn't out flowing your free flowing exhaust. As a matter of fact you may be suffering a bit from too little back-pressure on the system (a concept I have proved to myself.) Additionally, a new cam will probably not go too far beyond your stock carb's ability to provide fuel/air mix. This means you can put the new cam in and use it immediately. A new header at this point won't do a thing, and if you believe in back-pressure, might even hurt you. A new carb at this point isn't going to put one bit more juice into the engine (probably.) Now, after you put the cam in and enjoy it while your finances are replenished, you can put on the carb. Yes, now your may be leaning on your stock manifold a bit, but probably not that much. Wait for more money, enjoy a bit more power, and then get the header. Voila', you' > One more thing. Wonder if I'm gonna need to upgrade the fuel pump. Yes, I have way over simplified the above. Take each upgrade one at a time, and get the details on them. 'Cause there are lots of details I've left out. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: jburney@argos.nodc.noaa.gov (Jeff Burney) Subject: Re: 4AGE mods To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 11:09:33 EST > I'm considering a straight-pipe-to-performance-muffler-with-no-cat' setup > in my 4AGE ('86 MR2). > [note: to emmissions laws here... yet] > > How would this compare to an HKS system, in terms of performance? > > Also... any _muffler_ suggestions? > (SuperTrapps are too expensive and I don't want something I have to fiddle > with... and noise isn't an issue so long as it's within legal limits) TRD suggested and I went with a muffler from a supercharged MR2 ('88). Usual price is ~$128.00(US) but I got mine on sale for ~100. You will have to slot the flange on the muffler to allow direct bolt on to the stock cat or better yet, buy a generic cat for a 3.0 liter V6 then weld it all together. Anyway, the guy at TRD said it you only get about 3hp from an HKS muffler and I don't think that's worth $290. Jeff xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 14:50:26 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New member Welcome Gord Law to our group... ----- Gord Law ----- Hi, I heard about your Toyota discussion group (from: roger@sickkids.on.ca) and am interesting in joining, he said to include the following information so here it is... ME: Gord Law Waterloo, Ontario, Canada LAW@PHYSICS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca MINE: was - 1974 Celica will be - ???? (something with a 4AGE engine) INTERESTS: 1 - modifying the 4AGE engine 2 - pro-rally Toyotas Thanks in advance, Gord ----- <> ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 15:23:53 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: new members Just a reminder... The basic new member policy determined by this group some time ago was that we would not "advertise" our existance to the 'net, but rather recruit our members as we saw folks on the regular Toyota group or on a newsgroup who seemed like good candidates. This was done to (first) to ensure that the majority of the members of this group are contributors and not full time lurkers and (secondly) to minimize the workload of the administrators. Tom Julien, in assistance to me, does all the list maintenance, including the user list. As the number of users goes up, so does the administrivia necessary to operate this list. Please, if you find someone who would be a good candidate for this list, let them know of our existance. We even have a recruiting-type form-letter that we can send you a copy of, which allows you to just drop the potential user a note with all the pertinent membership info already formatted. On the other hand, every so often somebody decides to "mention" our existance on one of the various lists or newsgroups. At that point, we are swamped with new user requests which Tom and I must administrate. We are willing and eager to do this because of our desire to see this list thrive. However, for myself, I must say that if you want to advertise our existance, I will view that as you volunteering to accept administrative responsibility for the list, which I will willingly offer. Let's ensure that our group remains the pure, tight, knowledgeable group it has been, and not just another information exploder. Recruit knowledgeable members, and leave the advertising to the other groups. BTW, I have had requests from folks building "lists of lists" to add our name to our listing. I have graciously denied these requests. If you see the Toyota-mods group listed on such a "list of lists", please either notify myself, or notify the compiler of the list that we request to be left off at this time. If the membership has had a change of opinion on this policy, please speak out at once, so that the policy can be revised. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 16:09:17 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Another New Member! Welcome Robert Taylor! ----- Robert Taylor ----- Name : C. Robert Taylor Location : Auburn, AL Model : 1988 4-Runner SR5 Engine : 3.0 V6 Mods : None at present. Considering Buick or Chevy V6 conversion, or perhaps one of the new, small V8 conversions. Previous experience with putting a 1992 Z28 Camaro (Corvette motor) 350 tpi, steering gear, rear end, etc., into an El Camino. (Z28 El Camaro?). email : rtaylor@ag.auburn.edu ----- <> ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 15:01:43 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com. Subject: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? Help! I just changed the spark plugs in my '90 Supra Turbo this morning (believe me, it's a real hassle), and now the car's backfiring! At least, I can hear muffled "" sounds coming out of the exhaust that weren't happening before. I assume that's backfiring. Also, isn't backfiring due to fuel igniting downstream of the cylinders, rather than in the cylinders as it is supposed to? Doesn't this mean that it's likely that the fuel is igniting in the turbocharger, since that's probably the first and warmest section downstream of the cylinders? If the fuel actually is igniting in the turbocharger, isn't it likely I'm going to blow my turbocharger to pieces? If I'm overreacting, feel free to give me a virtual slap, but I'm worried now... All advice is appreciated, and the sooner the better. Thanks. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 13 Mar 1994 10:53:12 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: raptor.eng.ufl.edu!abuhr@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? > Help! I just changed the spark plugs in my '90 Supra Turbo this >morning (believe me, it's a real hassle), and now the car's backfiring! >.... [stuff deleted] Did you get the same temperature plugs? (I don't know much about this plug temp stuff but that would seem the only thing I could think of). Possibly if not all of the fuel is being burned then the exhaust would contain significant amounts of unburned fuel? Pull a plug and look at it...if it appears "fouled" or black and gunky then this is probably what's happening. Either way, if the "explosions" sound bad enough I wouldn't drive the car until some of the other, more knowledgable guys get back to you. You did GAP the plugs didn't you? I suppose that could be a problem too..... Fingers crossed for ya! Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Aaron Buhr" Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 08:05:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) > > Help! I just changed the spark plugs in my '90 Supra Turbo this > >morning (believe me, it's a real hassle), and now the car's backfiring! > >.... [stuff deleted] > > Did you get the same temperature plugs? (I don't know much about this > plug temp stuff but that would seem the only thing I could think > of). *sigh* Right now, that seems like it might be the most likely problem... I don't know if the non-turbo and turbo models use the same plugs, but the Bosch platinums I got were pre-gapped to .44 (.044?), which I think is what the non-turbo models use. Both the Haynes manual and the owner's manual said that the plugs needed to be .31 (.031?), so that's what I used. Also, the ones I pulled out were .31. Incidentally, they were pretty corroded, too. Anyway, I ended up re-doing the whole thing again on Sunday, double-checking everything as I put it all back together and I can't figure out what could be causing the problem. > Possibly if not all of the fuel is being burned then the exhaust would > contain significant amounts of unburned fuel? Pull a plug and look > at it...if it appears "fouled" or black and gunky then this is > probably what's happening. Either way, if the "explosions" sound When I pulled the plugs out to re-check the gaps they looked pretty clean still. > bad enough I wouldn't drive the car until some of the other, more > knowledgable guys get back to you. You did GAP the plugs didn't you? > I suppose that could be a problem too..... The backfiring's not like the stereotypical VW bug or anything, loud bangs and pops coming out the rear. It's just that every five or ten seconds the exhaust will "cough," with a muffled "whump" sound, accompanied by a brief burst of air from the exhaust. Quite often there will be a second, and sometimes third, smaller cough within a second afterward. I've been driving the car over the weekend and the backfiring doesn't seem to affect the car much at speed, but it does make the car noticeably shake and quiver at idle. I'll have to check to make sure the salesdroid gave me the right plugs. Any other ideas, anyone? Thanks for the help so far Fred and Gary. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 1:52:57 PST Aaron, You sure you got your plug wires back in order? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Aaron Buhr" Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca (Darin Ray Hamilton) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 12:38:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML) > Maybe your timing is off. (?) > Check that... it sounds to me like a cylinder may be misfiring. Is the timing human-adjustable on the 7M-GTE? The ignition's all electronic, as far as I know. I'll check out the Haynes manual when I get home. Thanks. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 09:02:33 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: Toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Muffler Mania Ok, so many folks asked for the muffler info I had that I decided I would post it to the whole group, and then put it on the Mosaic server for later access. Unfortunately, it is very long, so I am going to do it as a separate post. Look for that a bit later. First, let me talk a bit about my experience with backpressure. I don't have a dyno (yet) or anything like that, so my experiments have to do with real-time, on-the-road testing. Same sorta stuff you can do if you have a long, straight, low/no traffic road nearby. I took my 4x4 with the 22R out and picked such a road. I put the pedal on the floor, and found out how fast it would go in 4th gear (I go faster in 4th than in 5th, no big surprise.) Then, I unbolted the exhaust in front of the Catylitic converter. Did the same run again. NO CHANGE. Hmmmm... Then I flipped the breather cover over and let it draw unfiltered air. Same test. This time a coupla mph and rpm faster. Put the exhaust back on, left the breather cover upside down and tried again. No change from the last experiment. Put the breather back on right-side up and dropped back to my original top mph/rpm. Ah, repeatability. What does this tell me? Well, I mis-spoke last week when I said it implied the need for backpressure. (Sorry, its been about 3 years since I did this test and I had to re-remember my results.) It does imply that the biggest problem my stock engine has is not getting air _out_ of the engine, it is getting it _in_! I had said that I would work on the cam first, but I don't think it would be a mistake to get the new carbs first. I do, however, think that a cam and a low-restriction intake would make a bigger difference, however. Then, when you get around to putting those dual 40mm side drafts on, you will have everything in place to see a _huge_ difference. And until you do this, my feeling is that there is absolutely no reason to spend money on a header. In other words, (and check this for yourself) a header with a stock cam/carb is a total waste of money. Now, what about backpressure? Well, my mechanic buddies say it is critical. I am not a mechanical engineer, so I'm open to comments. When you see the muffler review, you will note that in some cases a higher backpressure leads to better horsepower numbers, and in some cases it doesn't. In nearly all cases, torque _increases_ with a muffler over an open exhaust pipe. In one case, horsepower increases by 1 with the Round Borla, which has 0 backpressure. I am not convinced, however, that the test engine, a naturally aspirated 430 hp RAT engine, gives the kind of data that is _always_ applicable to a 150 hp Toyota engine, or a turbocharged engine. (IOW, YMMV) :-) I am going to try to recreate the article as close as possible to the original, _without_ my comments. After it is posted, feel free to begin a thread of discussion on its data. I will say that after I read the article, I felt inclined to go with the cheapest one, a $30 Thrush Truck Tough muffler, which was also quiet and gave very good performance numbers. However that muffler doesn't _look_ nearly as impressive as the $300 Borla! For Koji, a glossary: IOW: In other Words YMMV: Your mileage may vary (and, from the other day...) FWIW: For what it's worth Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: derek_deeter@rainbow.mentorg.com (Derek Deeter) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 08:58:37 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? Have you made sure that you are actually getting spark at each plug? Once I bought some Champion resistor plugs that actually had no continuity between the terminal and the electrode. It may be difficult but can you take out each sparkplug and see if there is actually spark when you turn over the engine, or at least use a VOM to measure the resistance between the terminal and the electrode? Derek xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 10:30:07 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? To: Aaron Buhr Cc: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com, Maybe your timing is off. (?) Check that... it sounds to me like a cylinder may be misfiring. ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 09:32:13 PST From: lung@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung) To: abuhr@eng.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com } The backfiring's not like the stereotypical VW bug or anything, }loud bangs and pops coming out the rear. It's just that every five or }ten seconds the exhaust will "cough," with a muffled "whump" sound, }accompanied by a brief burst of air from the exhaust. Is *misfiring* a better word for this? When you say 'backfiring', I keep thinking it's popping out the tailpipe. If it's misfiring, check your distributer cap and rotor. Look for funny cracks or lines (carbon tracks) between posts that can cause the spark to go where it's not intended to. How about your wires? I've learned that even the smallest tear in the boot or insulation can cause misfiring problems even though you'd think they're OK. For kicks and grins, also check the resistance values of each wire. They should be fairly consistent among them. Stock wires are roughly 10Kohms/ft. aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 10:44:37 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? To: Aaron Buhr Cc: Toyota Mods ML On Mon, 14 Mar 1994, Aaron Buhr wrote: > > Maybe your timing is off. (?) > > Check that... it sounds to me like a cylinder may be misfiring. > > Is the timing human-adjustable on the 7M-GTE? The ignition's all > electronic, as far as I know. I'll check out the Haynes manual when > I get home. Thanks. > > Aaron B. Just a word of caution for everyone: Don't take the Haynes manual as law written in stone. My 1985-1987 Toyota MR2 Haynes manual said that to replace the fusible links in my car, one must cut the link out of the wire it is contained in, and a new one must be souldered in its place. In fact, all of the fusible links in my '86 MR2 are _removable_ (like a standard fuse), and are located in the main fuse box. Just a point of interest. Anyone else had problems with Haynes? ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 09:47:12 PST From: lung@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? Forwarded... ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From abuhr@eng.ufl.edu Mon Mar 14 09:41:13 1994 Subject: Re: Help! Backfiring going to blow up my turbocharger? To: lung@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1552 X-Lines: 34 > } The backfiring's not like the stereotypical VW bug or anything, > }loud bangs and pops coming out the rear. It's just that every five or > }ten seconds the exhaust will "cough," with a muffled "whump" sound, > }accompanied by a brief burst of air from the exhaust. > > Is *misfiring* a better word for this? When you say 'backfiring', > I keep thinking it's popping out the tailpipe. Maybe so. Whenever I hear "misfiring", I think that the engine's just "missing". The reason I thought of backfiring was that there's a very noticeable puff of air coming out with the "", as opposed to just stumbling and having an erratic flow. > If it's misfiring, check your distributer cap and rotor. Look for funny > cracks or lines (carbon tracks) between posts that can cause the Full electronic ignition, no distributor cap and rotor. I may have to pull everything apart again and check all the electrical contacts. When I took it apart the last two times the plug wire contacts all looked like new, but it's possible I got some dirt or grease in there causing a bad contact. > spark to go where it's not intended to. How about your wires? I've > learned that even the smallest tear in the boot or insulation can cause > misfiring problems even though you'd think they're OK. For kicks > and grins, also check the resistance values of each wire. They should > be fairly consistent among them. Stock wires are roughly 10Kohms/ft. I'll check the wire resistances when I get home. Thanks for the tips. Aaron B. ----- End Included Message ----- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Twin Carb Tuning - Howto. Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 14:39:58 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com > "Benjamin T.P. Tan" writes: > twin carbs before so I'm wondering: how the heck do I balance the > two carbs? Something called a 'carb syncronizer' has two (or more) mercury filled tubes to measure the vacuum generated by each carb. Adjust the carbs until the mercury levels track the same. There may be more to do than this, however. > bentan > '80 Celica (TA40/2T-B) Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 19:16:04 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Haynes Manuals (was: am I going to...) >Don't take the Haynes manual as law written in stone. That's for sure! >Anyone else had problems with Haynes? > >...Darin I seem to recall that the one (or was it Clymer? (sp)) for my 88 Corolla GTS had the firing order of the cylinders wrong (oooooooops). I had actually bought one of these suckers but fortunately noticed before I goofed anything up. Can anyone confirm this? I promptly took it back (a few years ago). Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 07:56:00 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: New Member! Let's now welcome Richard Asano >>>>>Richard Asano<<<<< Name : Richard Asano Location : Sunnyvale, CA Model : 1976 Celica GT Engine : 20R Mods : Added rear anti-sway bar and beefed up front anti-sway (1") Model : 1983 Celica GT Engine : 22R-E Mods : None - belongs to my wife Model : 1992 SR5 4X4 p/u Engine : 3VZ-E Mods : No performance mods yet email : asano@rambus.com >>>>>Richard Asano<<<<< xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 09:54:02 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Nothern Cali Meeting of the Toyota Mod'ers Well, the National Guard is sending yours truly to beautiful Camp Roberts, California for 3 days of inspecting the California National Guard's Infomation Management Systems. As the Director of Information Management for the Florida National Guard's Camp Blanding Training Site, I must dutifully fly out, put on my green suit, and bring back lots of info. However, this doesn't mean that I can't flex my schedule a bit and meet some of the mod'ers in California. I have arranged to do an overnight stop-over in San Francisco, and Allan "Botoboy" Chen has graciously invited me to crash at his place. I was thinking it would be great if some of the other Cali members near SF could get together for an evening of food and merriment. Anybody interested? I fly into SF Airport at 6:00 pm on March 23rd, and hope to proceed quickly to some local eatery where we could meet. From there it is up to group concensus, but I think we probably should avoid O'Farrells, (based on Allan's over-enthusiastic description) in order to maintain our facade of conservative, genteel Christian-folk. Please let me know what you think. BTW, for you Southern Cali folk, If you want to drive up to Camp Roberts (near San Luis Obispo, in the absolute middle of nowhere) I would be excited to meet you in person and break bread. -- _ ____| \__ '82 4x4 Christopher P. Myer {_^____^_} (cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com) @ @ (407) 725-8742 ___ Melbourne, Florida ____/ ||:. '81 Celica GT <_^___81_^__) @ @ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Nothern Cali Meeting of the Toyota Mod'ers Cc: allanc@sysop.corp.sgi.com Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 7:51:43 PST >I have arranged to do an overnight stop-over in San Francisco, and Allan >"Botoboy" Chen has graciously invited me to crash at his place. I was >thinking it would be great if some of the other Cali members near SF >could get together for an evening of food and merriment. Anybody >interested? I fly into SF Airport at 6:00 pm on March 23rd, and hope to >proceed quickly to some local eatery where we could meet. From there it >is up to group concensus, but I think we probably should avoid >O'Farrells, (based on Allan's over-enthusiastic description) in order to >maintain our facade of conservative, genteel Christian-folk. Ah, Allan, I know this guy! My month stay in England is coming to an end. I should be back in Northern California on March 25, but I will probably suffer from jet lag when I get back. But I would like to get togehter with you and Allan. Haven't seen that boy in ages! I took myself off insurance so I won't be able to drive my crafty Celica on the 25th and my M3 is in Santa Cruz, but you're welcomed to look and sit inside :). Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 11:30:57 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Regearing Koji and I have been having an excellent side discussion on the subject of regearing, and I thought I'd summarize some of the points made. As you know, Koji has always touted regearing as the best single investment for your car's performance. I have not always concurred, but I now think I understand where he's coming from and tend to agree. Basically, your stock setup (usually) has too much gear for your engine. Now, if you want to double your hp, then your gearing is probably fine. But get ready to spend _big_ bucks and (almost certainly) reduce reliability. On the other hand, if you want to see right-now improvements in performance, get your gearing more inline with your stock engine. For example, a fairly simple carb/cam/exhaust upgrade is gonna cost you around $1000 US, done right (That means new rockers, new springs, etc., but not counting labor.) This will get you about the same _usable_ low-end performance improvements as changing your gearing by about 15%, which will cost you about $400 (if you buy new) or less if you get lucky at a junkyard. Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. That means if you drive to work at x mph, your same trip at x mph will require you to run your engine 15% faster. (What used to bo 3000 now is nearly 3500.) If you overcorrect, your top end speed will drop. On the other hand, you will not be in trouble with the inspection folks, and all of your engine-stuff works the way it was supposed to work. (Neat concept!) All for less money. Now, I think there's something kinda wimpy about just regearing and not putting a big Holley quadra-jet double-over-pumper 1100 cfm carb on and a cam with 3.5" of lift or so, but it does kinda make sense. And, as Koji admits, if you do _both_, then you're really gonna have a monster on your hands! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 08:55:52 -0800 To: Gary H , cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com, Subject: Re: Nothern Cali Meeting of the Toyota Mod'ers Cc: allanc@sysop.corp.sgi.com On Mar 15, 7:51am, Gary H wrote: > Subject: Re: Nothern Cali Meeting of the Toyota Mod'ers > >I have arranged to do an overnight stop-over in San Francisco, and Allan > >"Botoboy" Chen has graciously invited me to crash at his place. I was > >thinking it would be great if some of the other Cali members near SF > >could get together for an evening of food and merriment. Anybody > >interested? I fly into SF Airport at 6:00 pm on March 23rd, and hope to > >proceed quickly to some local eatery where we could meet. From there it > >is up to group concensus, but I think we probably should avoid > >O'Farrells, (based on Allan's over-enthusiastic description) in order to > >maintain our facade of conservative, genteel Christian-folk. > > Ah, Allan, I know this guy! Botoboy rides again... high ho humsup (myu trusty steed)... away!!! *ha ha* > My month stay in England is coming to an end. I should be back in > Northern California on March 25, but I will probably suffer from jet lag > when I get back. But I would like to get togehter with you and Allan. > Haven't seen that boy in ages! That's okay... nothing like a pot of good 'ol dark strong coffee to cure that jet lag problem *ha ha*. Just join us. > I took myself off insurance so I won't be able to drive my crafty Celica > on the 25th and my M3 is in Santa Cruz, but you're welcomed to look and sit > inside :). And to sit in it is quite sweet. Think of it as a German Toyota Corolla *ha ha*. Latas, Botoboy Chen p.s. My apology on this waste of bandwidth. It's too much fun to pass up. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 13:24:26 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: The Muffler Review I've Been Promising! Merrie Melodies by Jeff Smith (Abridged version totally without permission from a special "Engines" publication by Peterson Publishing Company) We'll save you the effort of fast forwarding to the back of this story to see who won by telling you now that we have not chosen an overall winner. No, we're not wimping out. With all the different evaluations performed, overall power was merely one criterion. We'll leave that decision up to you, since you're the only one who knows what you want! The Setup: The muffler's were assembled and tested at McFarland's SuperFlow Dyno, where the test was conducted. The test engine was a Mark V 7.4 Liter Chevy Rat Motor running 8.75:1 compression. Timing was set at 36 degrees total, and 92 Octane pump gasoline was used. The motor was outfitted with 30" Hedman Headers with 3.5" collectors and a Holley 4779, 750-cfm double-pumper carburetor. Two 21" pipes were used to take the place of mufflers in the baseline testing The Test: In order to maintain as much accuracy as possible, the Rat motor was baselined first with open headers, then rebased with the full exhaust system, minus the mufflers. High horsepower was determined for each muffler , as well as backpressure at 5000 rpm. After all tests were run, the motor was re-tested without mufflers to ensure that the motor had not lost power during the tests. It was determined that the testing was accurate to within 1.1% The Results: Muffler HP/TRQ BkPres SndPres Price Material Constr Weight =================================================================== Open Hdr 430/479 0 Not tstd Str. Pipe 419/467 0 115 AP XLerator 212212 411/469 1.95 105 ?? MS W 13.75 Borla 40595 (Oval) 419/474 0 114 291.61 SS W 9 Borla 40600 (Cyl) 420/474 0 112 291.61 SS W 10 Flowmaster 42550 HP 415/472 1.45 110 104.80 MS W 14 Hedman 25580 405/462 2.14 104 34.86 MS L 10 Hooker 21106 410/469 1.84 110.5 64.50 MS w/C L 10.5 Thrush CVX 46152 410/471 0 109 85.95 MS w/P W 11 Thrush Tough Truck Turbo 44132 413/473 1.45 103 30.81 AMS L 11 Thrush Sonic Turbo 45122 409/467 1.14 108 38.65 MS w/P L 10 SuperTrapp 5452519 400/461 1.43 112 179.95 SS W 7 Walker Super Turbo 17734 410/470 1.2 108.5 53.01 AMS L 9.75 Walker Hemi Super Turbo 17749 412/473 .9 100.5 59.64 AMS L 13.25 Key: ==== Materials MS: Mild Steel (P: Powder Coating, C: Ceramic Coating) SS: Stainless Steel AMS: Aluminized Mild Steel Construction W: Welded L: Lock-seam Note: SuperTrapp was tested with 12 diffuser disks. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 13:42:26 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: A final note on backpressure... I left out a comment from the original copy of the muffler review I just sent. They stated that backpressure could be beneficial for tuning an engine for peak performance. Specifically, they stated that if you have an engine with too much valve overlap (ie, the exhaust and intake valves are open too long at the same time) a bit of backpressure would limit the amount of flow through the engine. I suppose they are saying that if the overlap is too great, you could actually flow fresh air/fuel mix out the exhaust valves. While it would seem like this is better than leaving burnt gases in the combustion chamber, (and probably it is,) when you steal air/fuel mix from the intake manifold, you are stealing from your carb/intake combo's ability to provide air/fuel mix, thus limiting your engine's power. I don't, however, think this was the case in the test in the article. I see absolutely no correlation between hp, (or torque) and backpressure, sound pressure, or price, for that matter. Actually, it would be nice to be able to put our engines on a dyno, run it at peak hp rpm, adjust the backpressure, and do a plot of hp & torque vs. backpressure. Hmmmm.... What'cha think? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:20:08 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Regearing To: Chris Myer Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Chris Myer wrote: > Koji and I have been having an excellent side discussion on the subject > of regearing, and I thought I'd summarize some of the points made. > > As you know, Koji has always touted regearing as the best single > investment for your car's performance. I have not always concurred, but > I now think I understand where he's coming from and tend to agree. > Basically, your stock setup (usually) has too much gear for your > engine. Now, if you want to double your hp, then your gearing is > probably fine. But get ready to spend _big_ bucks and (almost > certainly) reduce reliability. On the other hand, if you want to see > right-now improvements in performance, get your gearing more inline with > your stock engine. > > For example, a fairly simple carb/cam/exhaust upgrade is gonna cost you > around $1000 US, done right (That means new rockers, new springs, etc., > but not counting labor.) This will get you about the same _usable_ > low-end performance improvements as changing your gearing by about 15%, > which will cost you about $400 (if you buy new) or less if you get lucky > at a junkyard. Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. That means if > you drive to work at x mph, your same trip at x mph will require you to > run your engine 15% faster. (What used to bo 3000 now is nearly 3500.) > If you overcorrect, your top end speed will drop. On the other hand, > you will not be in trouble with the inspection folks, and all of your > engine-stuff works the way it was supposed to work. (Neat concept!) > All for less money. > > Now, I think there's something kinda wimpy about just regearing and not > putting a big Holley quadra-jet double-over-pumper 1100 cfm carb on and > a cam with 3.5" of lift or so, but it does kinda make sense. > > And, as Koji admits, if you do _both_, then you're really gonna have a > monster on your hands! > > Chris > Any comments on MkI MR2 gearing? I find that the gearing in my '86 is pretty good, and is well suited to making the car "quick" (as opposed to "fast"). I can't think of a source of "better" ratio gears without significantly affecting my car's top speed. ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 20:02:07 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Springs in general (HELP!!!) >You know, the ride on the Celica is pretty rough already. If I stick >Eibachs on the car, would the ride be a different kind of rough ride? >Maybe my springs ands stuff do really need to be changed, cause when I go >over bumps, I feel as if the car doesn't really absorb the bump so well. >Then again, maybe this has something to with the car's light weigth. > >Hmmm, >. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >Phil pdang@ctp.org 87 Celica ST Ok, I think we have arrived at the point where we need some input from experts (ie. anyone but me!). What I propose is that we solicit info from anyone who cares to put in their $0.02 worth (please). How about if we structure inputs as follows: SPRINGS Harder Pros: Cons: Comments: Softer Pros: Cons: Comments: Variable Rate Pros: Cons: Comments: SHOCKS/STRUTS Harder (Sport?) Pros: Cons: Comments: Softer (Stock?) Pros: Cons: Comments: Adjustable Pros: Cons: Comments: Now, I realize some of this may be based on personal preference (like me, I like a harsh bumpy ride versus a land-yacht) and that's okay because maybe this will reveal an agreed-upon trend for each type of hardware. I would put my own comments in, but in trying to defend them to myself in what I was going to originally post, I realized I don't know what I'm talking about! I'll (hopefully) keep a copy of all postings and then try to summarize things at the end assuming things don't get too far over my head. And away we go.......... Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 21:36:24 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: The Muffler Review I've Been Promising! > From cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Tue Mar 15 13:35:02 1994 > Subject: The Muffler Review I've Been Promising! > > Walker Super Turbo 17734 > 410/470 1.2 108.5 53.01 AMS L 9.75 > ^^^^^ I think that I paid ~$120 for mine including 2 1/4" custom bend pipes from the cat back and tip (to the muffler guy)... also, I haven't noticed any difference in performance but it sounds good... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Errol Young ~ Internet: egy@cc.bellcore.com ~ ~ Bell Communications Research, Inc. ~ -or- eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com ~ ~ 444 Hoes Lane, RRC 4D-531 ~ ~ ~ Piscataway, NJ 08854 ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 23:41:44 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Regearing Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 11:30:57 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Subject: Regearing >Koji and I have been having an excellent side discussion on the subject >of regearing, and I thought I'd summarize some of the points made. Wow... We have been =) >As you know, Koji has always touted regearing as the best single >investment for your car's performance. Touted ? Hmmmm... I need 2 look dat word up it seems =) >I have not always concurred, but I now think I understand where he's >coming from and tend to agree. Its surely not headers ;) >Basically, your stock setup (usually) has too much gear for your >engine. Basically your Toyota is underpowered if its before 1985 or you still have a 4AC motor or such. (At least for your US peeples. If its not DOHC or 16 valve at least then you are underpowered and even those with newer Toyotas you are. Even Supras due to Toyotas standard of reliablity etc etc) >Now, if you want to double your hp, then your gearing is probably fine. >But get ready to spend _big_ bucks and (almost certainly) reduce reliability. >On the other hand, if you want to see right-now improvements in performance, >get your gearing more inline with your stock engine. Big gears just basically means getting to your top speed faster. Thats all it seems to mean to me. I have an anxious power curve with one of the "few" 5:13 Final Gear Ratio's made by TRD for the 10 Bolt Celica rear end. My RPM's is not as bad as you think and gas milage is even better. Performance is good too. Best investment there is to me for the "most bang for the buck" Basically, it comes down to two things. How serious do you wanna get and how much ya wanna pay to play =) >For example, a fairly simple carb/cam/exhaust upgrade is gonna cost you >around $1000 US, done right (That means new rockers, new springs, etc., >but not counting labor.) Thats actually a conservative cost. This or the stated cost if for those cars pre-1985 generally and Carb set up is @$400 a cam costs @150 Headers @$120 and exhaust pipes @$100 or so. I won't even begin with the starting costs for a DOHC Apex Twin Cam motor =) If you take all of the above costs and prices of the "small stuff" add in another $500 or so plus gaskets etc etc. Yes its cheaper to buy a 4AG motor or so but then again how serious is that to you =) >This will get you about the same _usable_ low-end performance improvements >as changing your gearing by about 15%, which will cost you about $400 >(if you buy new) or less if you get lucky at a junkyard. >Now, what about the tradeoffs? >By regearing, you will raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a >given speed. >That means if you drive to work at x mph, your same trip at x mph will >require you to run your engine 15% faster. >(What used to bo 3000 now is nearly 3500.) >If you overcorrect, your top end speed will drop. On the other hand, >you will not be in trouble with the inspection folks, and all of your >engine-stuff works the way it was supposed to work. (Neat concept!) >All for less money. Ahhh yes the big main point was stated last. Welps unless you have the after the catalytic Errr New Turbo system deals (check a Turbo magazine for the stats it should be in this one) the variable rate adjust turbos that come after the cats and make or perform like superchargers. Welps... You should run good oil and lubricants in your motor in the first place and have the nicities etc etc so start with the basics and then go on from there. Make sure you have good parts then start modifiying. No sense in building a car that you have to change wheel bearings one month and the next brake drums etc etc... >Now, I think there's something kinda wimpy about just regearing and not >putting a big Holley quadra-jet double-over-pumper 1100 cfm carb on and >a cam with 3.5" of lift or so, but it does kinda make sense. How about a 660 Holly Carb with a RV cam for total full range =) >And, as Koji admits, if you do _both_, then you're really gonna have a >monster on your hands! I've done both, one single all of the stated above. What I say may not be right or "law" but it makes sense at least to me and now Chris... >Chris -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 23:46:12 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE Darin's Gearing Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 18:20:08 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Darin's Regearing >Any comments on MkI MR2 gearing? >I find that the gearing in my '86 is pretty good, and is well suited to >making the car "quick" (as opposed to "fast"). Basically the SW-11's are built and should win autocross events straight out of the showroom. The gear rations differ on some MR-2's I can't or don't have a reference guide but can find out for you. I do belive it is a 4.11 gear ratio though. >I can't think of a source of "better" ratio gears without significantly >affecting my car's top speed. Sorry I don't understand this statement... ...Darin -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 23:56:46 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Springs and Stuff Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 20:02:07 CST Reply-To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Subject: Springs in general (HELP!!!) >Ok, I think we have arrived at the point where we need some input from >experts (ie. anyone but me!). What I propose is that we solicit info >from anyone who cares to put in their $0.02 worth (please). How about >if we structure inputs as follows: (*Stuffs deleted*) BTW do you want all Spring types or just what we used ? Like over stock or what we had ? I think i'm one of few peoples who have had about over 15 Suspension set ups for my Corolla and went back to the first one for some reasons or not. My First set up was the best and works the best over all. >I'll (hopefully) keep a copy of all postings and then try to summarize >things at the end assuming things don't get too far over my head. Actually Fred... this is a good ideer... hmmm perhaps this is what the Toyota-mods-bentan has become... the alt.group =) ha ha ... Also whats Roger working on and also the Mosiac I belive.. >And away we go.......... >Fredo Oh ya... I can't view Roger's pictures =( -Koj xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 09:32:48 EST From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Regearing > > Koji and I have been having an excellent side discussion on the subject > > of regearing, and I thought I'd summarize some of the points made. > > > > As you know, Koji has always touted regearing as the best single > > investment for your car's performance. I have not always concurred, but > > I now think I understand where he's coming from and tend to agree. > > Basically, your stock setup (usually) has too much gear for your > > engine. Now, if you want to double your hp, then your gearing is > > probably fine. But get ready to spend _big_ bucks and (almost > > certainly) reduce reliability. On the other hand, if you want to see > > right-now improvements in performance, get your gearing more inline with > > your stock engine. > > > > For example, a fairly simple carb/cam/exhaust upgrade is gonna cost you > > around $1000 US, done right (That means new rockers, new springs, etc., > > but not counting labor.) This will get you about the same _usable_ > > low-end performance improvements as changing your gearing by about 15%, > > which will cost you about $400 (if you buy new) or less if you get lucky > > at a junkyard. Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. That means if > > you drive to work at x mph, your same trip at x mph will require you to > > run your engine 15% faster. (What used to bo 3000 now is nearly 3500.) > > If you overcorrect, your top end speed will drop. On the other hand, > > you will not be in trouble with the inspection folks, and all of your > > engine-stuff works the way it was supposed to work. (Neat concept!) > > All for less money. How difficult is it to change gearing. I was looking through my service manual for the W58 and it looked like you need a press and lots of special tools to work on the transmission. Jon xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 08:05:53 PST From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Regearing > > > > > Koji and I have been having an excellent side discussion on the subject > > > of regearing, and I thought I'd summarize some of the points made. > > > > > > As you know, Koji has always touted regearing as the best single > > > investment for your car's performance. I have not always concurred, but > > > I now think I understand where he's coming from and tend to agree. > > > Basically, your stock setup (usually) has too much gear for your > > > engine. Now, if you want to double your hp, then your gearing is > > > probably fine. But get ready to spend _big_ bucks and (almost > > > certainly) reduce reliability. On the other hand, if you want to see > > > right-now improvements in performance, get your gearing more inline with > > > your stock engine. > > > > > > For example, a fairly simple carb/cam/exhaust upgrade is gonna cost you > > > around $1000 US, done right (That means new rockers, new springs, etc., > > > but not counting labor.) This will get you about the same _usable_ > > > low-end performance improvements as changing your gearing by about 15%, > > > which will cost you about $400 (if you buy new) or less if you get lucky > > > at a junkyard. Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > > > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. That means if > > > you drive to work at x mph, your same trip at x mph will require you to > > > run your engine 15% faster. (What used to bo 3000 now is nearly 3500.) > > > If you overcorrect, your top end speed will drop. On the other hand, > > > you will not be in trouble with the inspection folks, and all of your > > > engine-stuff works the way it was supposed to work. (Neat concept!) > > > All for less money. > > How difficult is it to change gearing. I was looking through my > service manual for the W58 and it looked like you need a press > and lots of special tools to work on the transmission. > > Jon > The regearing is done in the diff. not transmision. And yes you would need to have specialized tools to play w/ the diff. If you don't have experience w/ diffs, I recommend you take it to a specialist. This is coming from a 4X4er who is AlWAYS thinking 'bout "regearing" :-) Louis xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com Date: 16 Mar 94 10:02:13 -0700 To: cmyer#h#a#h#su102a.ess.harris.com%teqmg@email3.sps.mot.com Cc: toyota-mods#064#su102a.ess.harris.com%smtpgw@email3.sps.mot.com Subject: Mufflers and gears Chris wrote: >I think you mis-remember or I mis-communicated. What I (thought I) >said was that the Thrush Tough Truck Turbo seems like the best deal, I must have misremembered what you said. Anyway, >108.5db, and the Thrush at 103. Now I understand the 3db point to be >halfway, but the article says something about 14 db difference being >half the sound pressure. (ie, the Walker Hemi Super Turbo at 100.5db >From my physics book, B=10log(I/Io) where B is the sound level in decibels, I is the sound power level, in W/sq.m, Io is the reference sound level. From this formula, 3dB down is half power, like you said. I don't know where Hot Rod got the 14dB down being half power. (I found the same article as yours in Hot Rod) I will probably look into the Thrush Tough Truck Turbo muffler, seeing how it should be significantly quieter than the Walkers on my car. >more pickup than before. I would be interested in finding out if you >now can go as fast in 5th as in 4th. I still can't, so I know I didn't >"overcorrect." Let me know about your success with this change. BTW, >this is good stuff to let everyone know about if you had any interesting >experiences. Also, how much it cost, who did it, etc. I probably won't be testing top speeds on my truck, (I'll try to go ANYWHERE in 4LO, but top speed in a truck isn't for me) but I know I am geared about 5% better than stock, i.e. engine goes 5% faster now than with stock tires and gears. I would guess it would go faster in 4th from how it feels. ****4.10 to 4.88 gear swap on 85 4WD truck**** I did the swap with the help of a friend who has a press, and a dial indicator/base. I paid $200 for both sets of gears, used, $380 for the Detroit locker, about $200 for all new bearings and seals, and other miscellaneous expenses for about a cool grand for the whole job. It took two weekends, one for disassembly, one for re-assembly, and one long evening to do both axles worth of gear setups. Special tools were a hydraulic press, a bearing separator, dial indicator with base, and a torque wrench. Taking the third members out is pretty basic, and even setting the gears up isn't too hard if you have the shop manual and the tools and patience. Email me if you want any more details. The 4WD trucks use an 8" ring gear which has proven to stand up to V6 and V8 abuse with big (>36") tires. If anyone is having strength problems with the car diffs, you may want to look into the truck axles. ANY kind of traction differential is available for the 8" too, which is kind of nice. Jim Chott Motorola Dust Devils 4WD club rzaa80@email.mot.com 1985 Toy SR5 XtraCab 4WD pickup Gilbert, Arizona 1972 Pontiac LeMans Sport Convertible xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 13:52:12 EST To: Darin Ray Hamilton , Subject: Re: Regearing Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Chris Myer wrote: > > Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. So leave top gear alone - on the highway, I'm running in top most of the time. I wouldn't mind having to run it up a bit higher in 4th before the shift to 5th, as it turns out I hardly ever get to 5th when I'm trying to "go fast". I've never gotten any use from 5th gear at Lime Rock - you run out of front straight before you run out of 4th gear. -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:02:16 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Gearing Based on some of the discussion following my "Regearing", I can see that I've miscommunicated a bit. When I talk about regearing in this context, I simply mean changing the ratio of the differential. Regearing your Tranny is another matter altogether, one which I don't have the knowledge to even begin discussing. I don't think, however, you can just "drop in" a different ratio for, say, 3rd gear. Regearing your tranny requires a whole new set of gears. To my knowledge, the only complete set of tranny gears available for most Toyotas is the close ratio set from TRD. I am not sure I even understand the benefit or major differences between a close-ratio tranny and a lower (numerically higher ratio) geared differential. What I am talking about is swaping out the differential gearing. Note that this can be achieved in one of two ways. If possible, the greatly preferred way is to go to a junk yard and get the entire third member for a Toyota that is the same size as your third member but a more appropriate ratio. Many "computerized" yards will even print out a listing of all the cars that have the same size differential, and the ratio or code number for that differential. Then, by looking up the code number in your TPHandbook (which you should never be without), you can get a different ratio that you can swap out in about an hour or so. (This _supposedly requires an axle puller, but with some luck and patience you can get the axles out without one.) The second method is to buy the ring and pinion and then get it installed in the carrier. Takes special tools. Expensive. Bummer. 4x4'ers, don't forget you've got to do both front and back. Jim Chott was able to do his own, and it still cost him around a grand for his 4x4 with lockers. Figure about $400 per axle not counting lockers, including labor. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:22:30 EST From: bahrr@pictel.com (Raymond Bahr) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Regearing I regeared a Rabbit GTI way back when. I replaced the 5th gear in the tranny. From the factory it was pretty useless. After the new gear there was about a 1500 RPM drop between 4th and 5th. This helped with the highway, but it took a toll with the clutch - It takes a while for the engine to lose 1500 rpm. I agree with the basic thread here: the best return on investment for acceleration will be regearing or reducing the weight of the vehicle if possible. This is for normally asperated vehicles. ( I can get a 100HP increase on my 300ZXTT for ~ $2000) Ray xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 17:25:24 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: Chris Myer's Bay Area visit > From: "Allan Chen" > Subject: Chris Myer's Bay Area visit > > Bay Area toy-modders, > > Chris will be in the Bay Area on Wed 3/23 and will leave the next > morning. Let's plan a toy_mods get-together for that evening. I am open to > suggestions. Here is a couple of ideas to came to mind: > > Fisherman's Wharf (fresh seafood, San Francisco) > possible late night Chinese dim sum (any suggestions for a place... > Chinatown maybe *ha ha*) > Tide House (micro-brewery, Mountain View) > Il Fornaio's (Italian food, Palo Alto) > Miyake (sushi, Palo Alto) > Chili's (American, couple of places) > Equinox (drinks, Embarcadero Center Hyatt, San Francisco) > A Touch of Aloha (Hawaiian food, Milpitas) > > Please email me if you have any suggestions or recommendations. > Allan: This is great.... I really do think that Chris deserves this. I wish that I could be there. Chris: If no one has said this to you as yet, and I know that they all feel the same... YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB AT ADMINISTERING THE LIST... THANKS. =============================================================================== _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email: egy@cc.bellcore.com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Mail: Errol Young _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Bell Communications Research, Inc. _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ 444 Hoes Lane, RRC 4D-531 _/_/_/_/rrol _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/oung Piscataway, NJ 08854 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Springs in general (HELP!!!) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:39:20 -0800 From: danapple@vicor.com > toymod%sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) writes: > SPRINGS > SHOCKS/STRUTS An important thing is the ratio of front to back stiffness (and left/right if you're a circle tracker, I guess). The ratio affects your over- and under- steer. So I'm not sure if harder or softer springs are better, but make sure whatever set you get has a good ratio. How to pick a good ratio is way beyond my knowledge, hence: ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS. Now, they're not perfect, but they do help adjust your over- and under- steer when entering a corner. For instance, on my 1986 Supra, I have Eibach street springs, progressive rate, and Tokico adjustable Illuminas. Now, the fronts are set all the way hard, to 5. The rears are set halfway up, to 3. When I set the rears to 4 or 5, the car oversteers, and the rear end tends to break free too early. When on 1 or 2, the car understeers, and just doesn't have a nice quick response. For my tastes, a firmer feel is almost always better, so I'm not really using this to affect ride feel. In fact, the times I've softened all the shocks all the way have always made passengers more carsick than just leaving them on the 5&3 settings. Note, harder springs don't really reduce overall weight transfer left to right. But the ratio of front to back stiffness affects the relative weight transfer on the front and back wheels. Overall lateral weight transfer is a result of lateral accelartion, CG height, and vehicle track width. If you had no suspension, you'd still have weight transfer. Also, when you lower the vehicle (via suspension), several things happen: 1) Lower CG 2) Suspension geometry changes. 3) Lower ground clearance #1 is always good, #2 may be good or bad, and #3 is almost always bad. On the semi-trailing arms and MacPherson struts on the 1986 Supra, the suspension geometry changes from lowering the car .5" were beneficial. My guess is that the switch in front from positive camber to negative camber was a more significant affect than the lower CG. PS. I disagree with Koji, suspension changes are the single most worthwhile thing to do. You feel every penny. But, just for scientific completeness, I may have to try the regearing... > Fredo Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:35:34 -0700 (MST) From: Darin Ray Hamilton Subject: Re: Regearing To: John Lupien Cc: Chris Myer , On Wed, 16 Mar 1994, John Lupien wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Chris Myer wrote: > > > Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > > > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. > > So leave top gear alone - on the highway, I'm running in top most > of the time. I wouldn't mind having to run it up a bit higher in > 4th before the shift to 5th, as it turns out I hardly ever get to > 5th when I'm trying to "go fast". I've never gotten any use from > 5th gear at Lime Rock - you run out of front straight before you > run out of 4th gear. > I was under the impression that one had to change _ALL_ 5 gears at the same time (i.e., a whole new set of gears), and that leaving just top gear was impossible. (???) ...Darin (. )(. ) -------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###--- | Darin Ray Hamilton | | 4th year MIS (BComm) | | University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA | | e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca | ---------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 08:18:59 EST To: Darin Ray Hamilton , Subject: Re: Regearing Cc: Chris Myer , Darin said: > On Wed, 16 Mar 1994, John Lupien wrote: > > > On Tue, 15 Mar 1994, Chris Myer wrote: > > > > Now, what about the tradeoffs? By regearing, you will > > > > raise the rpm at which your engine runs at a given speed. > > So leave top gear alone - on the highway, I'm running in top most > > of the time. > I was under the impression that one had to change _ALL_ 5 gears at the > same time (i.e., a whole new set of gears), and that leaving just top > gear was impossible. (???) Nah, that's just the easy way. All five gears change at once if you change the final drive ratio, which is a lot easier than building a custom gearbox. But custom gearboxes can be built or ordered for some types of cars. I don't know how easy it is for a Toyota, but I know that I can get any set of ratios I need for my Bug, plus add 5th gear if I want. -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:36:50 -0800 From: Joe Woodsprite To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Gearing What I am talking about is swaping out the differential gearing. Note that this can be achieved in one of two ways. If possible, the greatly preferred way is to go to a junk yard and get the entire third member for a Toyota that is the same size as your third member but a more appropriate ratio. Many "computerized" yards will even print out a listing of all the cars that have the same size differential, and the ratio or code number for that differential. Then, by looking up the code number in your TPHandbook (which you should never be without), you can get a different ratio that you can swap out in about an hour or so. Does a list exist stating the size of differentials offered on what cars, and what their ratios are? Could we Create one? It could be of great help to those who are searchin. Also is it possible to adjust the speedometer to be accurate after a gear change has been done? With as much as ticket prices have gone up around here lately I'd like to know if I'm speeding. Not that I ever do. :) Woodsprite PS Car & Driver just published a list of what forms of radar/lidar are used in what US states, and Can. provinces, very interesting. ******************************************************************************* ** * 1983 Celica ST * Joe Woodsprite *** ** Looking for Julie, * * Unsafe at any speed *** ** Whereever I go. * I don't drive * *** ** --- * fast. * lantera@kira.csos.orst.edu *** ** I'll do what it * I fly low. * lanteran@xanth.cs.orst.edu *** ** takes to find her. * * *** ** * 72 Honda CB350 * *** ******************************************************************************* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 18:59:51 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: NOTE: No Help 4 Your Car... This is not my place to say this or such. However... If you joined the list and are not "learning" "Anything new" Pretaining to your car. Please Please... Bring it up... There is a lot of infomation going on... Just I think a lot of our users let it slip my mind. I myself am about 1 month behind on Toymod mail... And often disreguard all the things I want to comment on... If this is a waste of bandwidth sorry... Just something I wanted to comment on since some "Newbies" that come onto the list might not be learning anything for their cars and getting discouraged =( BTW Whos posting the "monthly listing" of eberry bunny ?!?!??!! =) Just my 2 Yen (Wish I lived in Japan dammit) -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 19:06:42 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: ReGearing and stuff... Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:36:50 -0800 From: Joe Woodsprite Subject: RE: Gearing > What I am talking about is swaping out the differential gearing. Note > that this can be achieved in one of two ways. If possible, the greatly > preferred way is to go to a junk yard and get the entire third member > for a Toyota that is the same size as your third member but a more > appropriate ratio. Many "computerized" yards will even print out a > listing of all the cars that have the same size differential, and the > ratio or code number for that differential. Then, by looking up the > code number in your TPHandbook (which you should never be without), you > can get a different ratio that you can swap out in about an hour or so. >Does a list exist stating the size of differentials offered on what cars, >and what their ratios are? Could we Create one? It could be of great help >to those who are searchin. I think there was someone who on this list was working on that program or else was gonna publish such software ??!?!!? Thank you whom ever it was They did mines and I can't remeber who and am too lazy to go looking for it this early in the morning... Thank you again... Errrr.... I think its listed in the TRD Catalogue... if not.. I'll start working on it... if theres enough requests for it... I just need a Six pack of Zima... or zomething... >Also is it possible to adjust the speedometer to be accurate after a gear >change has been done? With as much as ticket prices have gone up around >here lately I'd like to know if I'm speeding. Not that I ever do. :) Speedo adjustment costs anywhere from $30 to an adverage of $100 >Woodsprite Hope ya find Julie soon =) >PS Car & Driver just published a list of what forms of radar/lidar are used > in what US states, and Can. provinces, very interesting. Lucky you have Radar... Laser down here really Sucks... -Allen T "Koji" Kam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 08:11:15 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: List of gears (Sorry if the subject led you to believe I had one for ya. Psych!) Actually, I do have a sheet that lists all of the third members that will fit into my year of Celica. I got it from a computerized junk yard. Its pretty cool. You just get the friendly Mr. Used Auto Parts Dude to punch in your year/make/model of car, and the part you want. It then kicks out all of the Toyotas (or whatever) that have that same (or a similar) part. In my case, I got a listing of about 5 different ratios available on everything from Coronas to Corollas, for various years and models, which are listed as well. How can you get one of these? Cozy up to your own local Mr. Used Auto Parts Dude, although I recommend staying at least at 2 arms length due to the frequent malodorous olfactory sensation brought on by infrequent personal hygiene and mass quatities of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages. BTW, the list in the (old) TRD catalog is a good companion to this junkyard listing, but by itself the TRD listing won't do nearly as much good in hunting for gears. If you use the TRD list alone, you have to look at each and every plate in each and every Toyota on the lot. With the Junkyard listing you just look for, say, a 78-81 Celica GT. The TRD catalog will tell you what ratio the gears listed on the Junkyard listing are, and whether or not they are limited slip, and how many gears they have. Gotta run Chris PS: That malodorous situation mentioned above is often compounded by sitting for several hours a day in a hot, unvented junkyard outhouse looking through magazines with center fold-outs. Better make that 3 arms lengths. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 10:59:55 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: Engine Listings.. --========================_7247716==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is the info I've collected so far on the various Toy Engines. Info taken from various sources including Chilton manuals, Lou Fusz catalog (Thanks Ray) and misc. sources.. This is by no means complete. For the 4AGE guys, take a look at the specs for the 91-92 4AGE's.. --========================_7247716==_ Content-Type: text/plain; name="eng.txt"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="eng.txt" Engine Type valv/cyc valv drv. Year Disp. BHP Torque Bore Stroke CR 18RG DOHC 2 chain ?? 1990 140 ?? 89 80 9.7:1 18RGEU DOHC 2 chain ?? 1990 120 ?? 89 80 8.3:1 18RGR DOHC 2 chain ?? 1990 130 ?? 89 80 9.2:1 18RGRU DOHC 2 chain ?? 1990 125 ?? 89 80 9.2:1 18RGU DOHC 2 chain ?? 1990 120 ?? 89 80 8.7:1 20R SOHC 2 chain 79-80 2189 90@4800 122@2400 3.48 3.5 8.4:1 22R SOHC 2 chain 81-83 2367 96@4800 129@2800 3.62 3.5 9:1 22RE SOHC 2 chain 83-86 2367 105@4800 137@2800 3.62 3.5 9:1 2SE ??? 2 ??? 83-86 1995 93@4200 113@2400 3.31 3.54 8.7:1 2T-C OHV 2 ?? 79 1588 75@5800 ?? 3.05 3.03 9:1 3A SOHC ?? ?? 88 1452 62@4800 76@2800 3.05 3.03 9:1 3A-C SOHC 2 ?? 79 ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? 3E SOHC 3 ?? 88 1456 78@6000 87@4000 2.87 3.43 9.3:1 3K-C OHV 2 ?? 79 ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? 3SFE DOHC 2 belt 88 1998 115@5200 124@4400 3.39 3.39 9.3:1 3SGE DOHC 4 belt 88 1998 135@6000 125@4800 3.39 3.39 9.2:1 3SGTE DOHC 4 belt 88 1998 190@6000 190@3200 3.39 3.39 8.5:1 3SGTE DOHC 4 belt 90 1998 200@6000 200@3200 3.39 3.39 8.1:1 3T-C OHV 2 ?? 80-81 1770 75@5000 95@2600 3.35 3.07 9:1 3T-C OHV 2 ?? 82 1770 70@4600 93@2400 3.35 3.07 9:1 3TGTE DOHC 2 chain 82 1770 160@6000 140@4400 85 78 7.8:1 4A-C SOHC 2 ?? 83-86 1587 70@4800 85@2800 3.19 3.03 9:1 4A-GE DOHC 4 belt 85-86 1587 112@6600 97@4800 3.19 3.03 9.4:1 4AF DOHC 2 belt 88 1587 90@6000 95@3600 3.19 3.03 9.5:1 4AFE DOHC 4 belt 90 1587 103@6000 102@3200 3.19 3.03 9.5:1 4AGE DOHC 4 belt 90 1587 130@6800 102@5800 3.19 3.03 9.5:1 4AGE DOHC 4 belt 91-92 1587 130@6800 105@6000 3.19 3.03 10.3:1 4AGELC DOHC 4 belt 88 1587 112@6600 100@4800 3.19 3.03 9.4:1 4AGZE DOHC 4 belt 88 1587 145@6400 140@4000 3.19 3.3 8.0:1 4ALC SOHC 2 belt 88 1587 74@5200 86@2800 3.19 3.03 9:1 4K-C OHV 2 ?? 81-82 1290 58@5200 67@3600 2.95 2.87 9:1 4K-E OHV 2 ?? 83-84 1290 58@4200 74@3400 2.95 2.87 9:1 5MGE DOHC 2 ?? 82 2759 145@5200 155@4800 3.27 3.35 8.8:1 5MGE DOHC 2 ?? 83-85 2759 150@5200 159@4400 3.27 3.35 8.8:1 5SFE DOHC 4 belt 90 2164 130@5400 140@4400 3.43 3.58 9.5:1 7MGE DOHC 4 belt 88 2954 200@6000 185@4800 3.27 3.58 9.2:1 7MGTE DOHC 4 belt 88 2954 230@5600 240@4000 3.27 3.58 8.4:1 =09 Model Year Engine =09 Camry 83-86 2SE =09 Celica 79-80 20R =09 Celica 81-86 "22R,RE" =09 Corolla 79 3K-C =09 Corolla 79 2T-C Corolla 80-82 3T-C Corolla 83-86 "4A-C,LC" Corolla 85-86 4AGE Cressida 79 4M Cressida 80 4M-E Cressida 81-82 5M-E Cressida 83-86 5M-GE MR2 85-89 4AGE Starlet 81-82 4K-C Starlet 83-84 4K-E Supra 79.5-80 4ME Supra 81 5ME Supra 82-86 5MGE Tercel 80-86 "1A,3A,AC" --========================_7247716==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 --========================_7247716==_-- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 11:22:18 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith) Subject: I'm Leaving... Well People, (Politically correct terminology) As of Mar. 23rd. I will no longer be working for Sick Kids Hospital since I have accepted a Job offer with Gold Disk as a software Developer. Chris I suggest you remove me from the list before you leave for your trip, due to the possibility of bounced mail. Once I get settled at Gold Disk, I will be back in contact with the list, until then, its been fun....... -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 11:55:09 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: I'm Leaving... > As of Mar. 23rd. I will no longer be working for Sick Kids Hospital since I > have accepted a Job offer with Gold Disk as a software Developer. Chris I > suggest you remove me from the list before you leave for your trip, due to > the possibility of bounced mail. Once I get settled at Gold Disk, I will be > back in contact with the list, until then, its been fun....... I hope the group will allow me to speak for them, and say that you are an invaluable resource and good friend, and while we wish you the greatest of luck in your new position, we will send a large "person" named Guido (or something like that) to find you if you aren't back on our list in a coupla weeks. :-) (It's much easier to type without the broken knee caps. Hurry back! :-)) Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: law@physics.watstar.uwaterloo.ca To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 14:07:17 EST Thanks Roger for the engine spec. sheet, however, can anyone add to the list by explaining what the engine codes stand for? For example what is the difference between the 4AFE and 4AGE engines aside from the extra 27 BHP? Thanks in advance. -- Gord Law, LAW@PHYSICS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: marec911@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 13:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: NOTE: No Help 4 Your Car... To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Thu, 17 Mar 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote: > > This is not my place to say this or such. > > However... If you joined the list and are not "learning" > "Anything new" Pretaining to your car. Please Please... > Bring it up... There is a lot of infomation going on... > Just I think a lot of our users let it slip my mind. > Hey I haven't seen anything about toyota trucks. Is there anyone out there doing any mods to the 3vze engine? Tom xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 15:24:09 -0500 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Misc Tidbits... Although I've been busy these last couple of weeks, I have tried to follow the on going discussions.. Here are some of my comments.. On cams for 4AGE: Looking through the Race preparation manual (Printed in Japan) for the 4AGE, I was able to decipher that the cam profiles for the stock (circa 1985) 4AGE are: Intake 240 degrees Exhaust 228 degrees lift 5.5 mm Performance wise these are very conservative especially taking into account the port sizes of the 4AGE head. As a comparasion, cams in my 4AGE are intake 304 exhaust 288 lift 7.5 mm My cams are by no means radical and TRD has cams for the 4AGE with intake 320 exhaust just as high lift 10 mm or more The Duration does tend to move the power band around, however other factors are involved. There is a TRD cam with a profile of intake 272 exhaust 2xx *lift* 10 mm which I believe would be great for street stuff.. In the immortal words of a wise mechanic: 'Cams maketh the 4AGE' I don't think there is another engine that has as wide a range of manufacturers making cams for it. (e.g HKS,TRD,PAECO,KENT,PIPER,RM Motorsports,Select Sales,...) Whether you want short duration/high lift or long duration/high lift cams, depends on what you want to acheive. Head Gaskets: These things are probably only good for a max .5 point increase, eg from 9 to 9.5. What they are supposedly good for is withstanding heat, and not "blowing". TRD has .7 mm (thick) ones (stock is around .9 mm) for about US $30.00. HKS charges more. Only worth it if you already have the head off. I used one previously, but when last I took the head off, I put it back up with a stock gasket. Exhaust: When I first got my car back from the guys who "converted" it (NYC) they had the TRD header hooked into a 2.25 " pipe that went all the way back to a muffler of unknown origin, (Tail pipe at muffler exit has 2.25 diameter) Needless to say the car was rather loud. Not wanting to be ticketed for noise, I purchased a thrush glass pack (straight through, 'Cherry Bomb') muffler and had it installed just after the header. (Isn't it amazing that you can buy these things from just about anywhere, however your Midas/Goodyear/whatever big name muffler shop, will not install them because they were not part of the original exhaust system) Any how the muffler some how managed to be installed ;-) , but my car has never performed like it did without it. So with regards to flow restrictions affecting power, I am real curious about the Borla Exhaust system Vs a straight pipe, my observations suggest the opposite. Then again, my exhaust system, is a mish-mash affair. >Str. Pipe 419/467 >Borla 40595 (Oval) 419/474 >Borla 40600 (Cyl) 420/474 GearBox & Differential Ratios: TRD has various gear sets for the T50 transmission as used with corollas & MR2's. There is a complete Quaife gear box out of England that is supposedly better than the TRD stuff (popular in the Days when the corolla was top dog in the Touring car championship). The beauty of close ratio gear boxes, is that the there is very little drop off in engine revs as you change from one gear to another. The draw back for everyday driving, is that you would probably be shifting alot more as engine speed VS selected gear becomes more critical. A popular option with the Guys in Barbados (on the Suzuki swifts,) is to install 3.9 Diffs vs the stock 3.5 ones. Its cheap performance, and the cars (Top speed not an issue) accelerate better. -- Roger Smith | Research Computing Services, Software Development | The Hospital for Sick Children, Internet:roger@sickkids.on.ca | Toronto, Canada. (416)-813-5779 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: danapple@vicor.com To: "" Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: NOTE: No Help 4 Your Car... Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 13:45:19 -0800 > "" writes: > Hey I haven't seen anything about toyota trucks. > Is there anyone out there doing any mods to the 3vze engine? For 4x4 trucks, 4Runners, and LandCruisers, try the offroad list: From: spr@ai.gtri.gatech.edu (Stefan Roth) Subject: Information about the offroad mailing list Purpose: To discuss and share experiences about 4X4 and backroads adventures, driving tips, vehicle modifications and anything else related to four wheeling. This list is specifically designed for owners, users, or enthusiasts of four wheel drive (4WD) vehicles. Discussions center around technical and mechanical matters, driving techniques, and trip reports. The offroad mailing list is unmoderated. Your postings are sent directly to the subscribers without intervention by the administrator. Please keep your postings in good taste and within the list's subject area. Do not post copyrighted material without permission of the author(s). The views expressed in offroad are those of the individual authors only. The list has a REALTIME option and a DIGEST option. You may choose to receive incoming posts either in realtime (the default) or as a daily digest or both. Unless you specified which option you wanted, you will receive posts in realtime. REALTIME OPTION: The realtime option is reflector driven. Posts to the list at offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu are immediately forwarded to all realtime recipients. Therefore, you will receive many messages per day from offroad. Mailing times are typically a few minutes to a couple of hours, however some recipients at the end of unreliable connections have been known to have a two day delay. Near normal group conversations can be carried on between subscribers who choose the realtime option. DIGEST OPTION: The offroad mailing list is also available in digest format. All incoming posts are queued up during the day and mailed out to the digest subscribers at 23:58 USA Eastern time each day. With the digest option, you only get one mail message per day from offroad. If you wish to switch to the digest format, send mail to the administrator at the administrative address listed below. Daily volume on the list is usually 20-50 messages on weekdays and 0-5 messages on weekends. A record high of over 60 messages in one day has been reached. The offroad administrative email address is offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu. Use this address to subscribe, unsubscribe, switch between realtime/digest modes, for mail problems, or just to talk to the administrator. Only if that machine is unreachable, use stefan.roth@gtri.gatech.edu to communicate with the administrator regarding mailing list administrative matters. The posting handler of my mailing list mechanism is fully automatic and normally does not need any intervention from me. All administrative matters (subscribes, unsubscribes, mail problems, switch to realtime/digest, etc) are handled manually by me on a time available basis (usually the same day). I do not read my email on weekends since these accounts reside at work and I do not like to log into work from home. Problems happening on weekends, holidays, or vacations will have to wait until I return the next business day. DIGEST BACK ISSUES: The list has an automatic server that allows you to request back issues of the offroad digest. All back issues are available. OFFROAD SERVER INFO: The offroad server (offroad-server@ai.gtri.gatech.edu) allows you to request information about the list. You can get a directory and index of digest back issues, the back issues, the bibliography, the monthly posting, and the FAQ. To get help about the server, mail to offroad-server@ai.gtri.gatech.edu and put the word "help" on a line by itself in the body of the message. The subject line is ignored. The server operates automatically without administrator intervention. If you have questions about any of the above, feel free to ask me. -------------------- Stefan Roth Georgia Tech Research Institute, CSITL, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 USA Administrator of offroad mailing list To post to list: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Administrative matters (sign up, unsubscribe, mail problems, switch modes etc): offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 19:02:03 CST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Engine Listings..(91-92 4AGE!!!) >4AGE DOHC 4 belt 90 1587 130@6800 102@5800 3.19 3.03 9.5:1 >4AGE DOHC 4 belt 91-92 1587 130@6800 105@6000 3.19 3.03 10.3:1 >4AGELC DOHC 4 belt 88 1587 112@6600 100@4800 3.19 3.03 9.4:1 Anybody have any idea why this is??? (130 vs 112). Could this be due to the compression alone? Is it kind of a thin metal head gasket thing? Considering that my modded 88 is only spec'd at about 135 this would be rather interesting info to have. Regards, Fredo (I always thought 4AF=carb and 4AGE=efi?????) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 19:55:45 -0800 To: Darin Ray Hamilton , Subject: Re: fuseable link Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List , > On Sun, 6 Mar 1994, Jonathan Drout wrote: > > > > I need to access (and replace) the fuseable link in my '86 MR2. > > > Does anyone know EXACTLY where it is? > > In my 85 the Fusible links were in the engine compartment fusebox that > > is basically directly behind the driver seat. The look like small > > boxes and are various colours. What makes you think its the FL? Ooops, not that familiar with Mister two's. It may be a good idea to take his advice first. I am a Corolla man myself. > A mechanic (friend of the family) told me, although he's not a Toyota expert. Have you done any diagnostics yet? i.e. battery test, continuity test? > My Haynes guide says that the FL I'm looking for is a length of wire > which comes from the battery somewhere. > (the electrical diagram is very unspecific about where it is and what it > looks like) It often times appear like a simple wire with rubbery looking housing. The guage of the wire depends on it's function. Majority of the time they are of smaller guages. > How do you tell if a FL is fried? Oh believe me you will know... It's called a "FUSABLE" link for a reason. Just imagine a fuse but in a form of a wire. Reverse voltage or high amperage would more that like be the cause for one to fry. Just look for a fried (literally) wire... It could anywhere on the entire length of the wire so look carefully. > 3 mechanics say it's the first thing to check--but what else could cause > my car to be _DEAD_ (i.e., no power at all)? Many of things... Bad voltage regulator, alternator, battery, or the a simple loose connection. Just gotta go through the ropes and test things out... starting with the source of electricity, your battery. > (to recap for everyone else: I accidentally backwards-boosted my car). Hmmm... Did you notice any burning smell when this incident occurred? Good luck and happy hunting. Latas, Allan "Botoboy" Chen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 20:15:22 -0800 To: roger@resunix.ri.sickkids.on.ca (Roger Smith), Subject: Re: I'm Leaving... Roger-meister, Mr. Go-cart, The Starlet-man, > Well People, (Politically correct terminology) > > As of Mar. 23rd. I will no longer be working for Sick Kids Hospital since I > have accepted a Job offer with Gold Disk as a software Developer. Chris I > suggest you remove me from the list before you leave for your trip, due to > the possibility of bounced mail. Once I get settled at Gold Disk, I will be > back in contact with the list, until then, its been fun....... "SOB, sniffle" Don't leave uuuuuuussss... Hey, waitaminute, you're just changing jobs. Nah, just kidding. Good luck at your new job dude. Latas, Botoboy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 13:47:34 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: NOTE: No Help 4 Your Car... >From: majikthise.wpg.paramax.com!vicor.com!danapple >> "" writes: > >> Hey I haven't seen anything about toyota trucks. >> Is there anyone out there doing any mods to the 3vze engine? > >For 4x4 trucks, 4Runners, and LandCruisers, try the offroad list: > This, of course, does not mean that we refuse to discuss toy-mods to trucks on this list!!! (As a truck owner myself -22RE- I will be looking for performance-boosting things but probably only replace them on an "as-required" basis) I suspect that the lack of traffic on the 3VZE is probably due to that fact that it's relatively new (right?) and not that many people know much about it. HEY.....an education session from people that have them would be really interesting (in my opinion) and then maybe we can figure out what mods would be common..... I suspect some of the basics like air-intake mods would be "better" on this engine as it is a 6-banger (isn't it?) and probably sucks more air....... just me rambling...... Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Brian Simmers Subject: Celica Time! To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:21:45 -0800 (PST) I'd like to say that I have learned tons from being on this maillist! I am now ready (pending financing) to begin my mods. Here is the list and the various concerns I have about each. My car one again is a 1983 Celica GT with the 22-RE engine and EFI. Suspension Grab some 1 and 1/2 inch lowered springs and a sway bar if I can get it. Engine I looked at the wimpy air intake on my car and decided it would be a good place to start. Does K & N make a filter to fit the 83 Celica? I think not! But then I remembered someone discussing making your own. I can't find that message so If anyone can recall it that would be great! It said something about strapping a tube to the intake and fitting the filter at one end. I am really interested in this. Next is to get a "moderate" cam from TRD, one with the same duration and lift. I figure if I can get more air inflow this should be a good next move. With these two mods should I consider a better spark setup, such as those from ACCEL and JACOBS. The jacobs one looked like a good deal. I read about it in a magazine. It determines the spark need of each individual cylinder and gives it the optimum amount. What do you think? Exhaust >From what I read about the tests the guy with a 22_RE in a truck did, I'm not to convince about the effectiveness of this mod, maybe you can change my mind. Differential My differential is screwed up anyway and I had planned to replace it with a used Celica one anyways. I'm uncertain however about what I'm supposed to do. Do I want a higher gear ratio or what? If anyone knows what ratio I've got and can tell me what I SHOULD have, I'd be in heaven! That's it, this is what I have learned form this list, thanks a bunch! The end of the semester is near for me and they will dump my account so please\ try to respond ASAP...just a request, not meant to offend anyone who doesn't read their mail much. P.S. Please keep your responses directed to my questions above, they always seem to get changed to answer someone else's queries. Brian >From what I read from the guy with the 22-RE in a truck. cylinder and provides the optimum amount. Tho xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:31:26 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Making your own K&N adaptor Basically, making your own K&N cylindrical filter adaptor for a vehicle with EFI and an airflow meter is relatively simple. Here's a "side view" of what you want to end up with: ______________________ _____________ |______________________| || |______________________|-------|| |______________________ |______________________|-------|| |______________________| || | |_____________ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ a b c where a) is the purchased cylindrical K&N filter (open at one end only) (I don't remember the part number...if anyone does this, please post the p/n of the one that works) b) is the thing you want to build c) is the stock airflow meter (AFM) b) is basically constructed from a flat plate and a ~3" round tube the plate will bolt onto the AFM and the tube will be clamped in the K&N. Therefore the tube has to be welded to the plate! 1) drill 4 holes in the plate so you can bolt it to the AFM 2) cut a hole in the plate which matches the port on the AFM 3) squish the pipe in a vise so that it becomes rectangular and about the size of the intake hole in the AFM (caution: "squishing" is a very precise mechanical procedure and should by no means be performed by anyone who has a mechanical certificate/degree as they are far too picky) 4) weld the two pieces together, bolt the whole mess together Also: you will probably want to make some sort of brace (ie. strip of metal) which will bolt to your custom adapter to support the K&N and AFM so they don't rub on anything. This puppy should flow all the air you need at better filtration (my opinion) and a fraction of the cost (fact) of a power-flow or similar. I actually had my mechanic do this for me as I am totally useless with non-electrical stuff. Let me know how you make out! Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: MSDs (as in like CDI..) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 22:42:17 +0800 (WST) I'm compiling an FAQ (or some semblence of it) for Ignition mods. Got most of it together except for a section on MSDs - Multi Spark (?) D----? Device? Dingger? Dweeb? Dum-dum? detonator?.. Would anyone with info on MSDs please email me with what you've got. I hope to get this thing out before the end of the month. Thanks. bentan '80 Celica (TA40/2TB - now 5-speed) +-----------------------------+ | CAUTION: I Drive Like You | +-----------------------------+ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:28:33 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Venerable Corolla My '81 Corolla station wagon is celebrating its 200,000th mile today. I plan to hit the gas at 199,999 and hold it down - no point going slow for such an event! I hope when I've gone half as many years as it's gone 1000's of miles, I'll be as quick and strong (and maybe half as rusty)! So far the only mods are stiff shocks and low-profile tires (which gives a better gear ratio... but throws off the speedo!) Yokohama A509's, can't beat 'em in the wet... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 09:31:49 PST From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Venerable Corolla > > My '81 Corolla station wagon is celebrating its 200,000th mile today. > I plan to hit the gas at 199,999 and hold it down - no point going slow > for such an event! I hope when I've gone half as many years as it's gone > 1000's of miles, I'll be as quick and strong (and maybe half as rusty)! > > So far the only mods are stiff shocks and low-profile tires (which > gives a better gear ratio... but throws off the speedo!) Yokohama A509's, > can't beat 'em in the wet... > > -- > --- > John R. Lupien > lupienj@wal.hp.com > hey you're cheating w/ those low-profile tires by speeding up the speedo. But we all know those corollas will do 200M so we won't count it against you :-) Louis xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 09:41:54 PST From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Time! Brian, I would keep the stock ignition and spend the money on a good exhaust set up instead. The stock ignition is a high energy electronic ignition setup and is fine for a street machine. Unless you race, you don't need the aftermarket setup. Now if you're going to increase the intake w/ a cam and a K&N filter setup, you have to increase the output of the exhaust to gain power. Otherwise you're wasting money. Keep us updated w/ the mods, Louis xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Brian Simmers Subject: Exhaust...more specifically To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 14:46:05 -0800 (PST) Thanks for your input on the ignition system and suggesting the exhaust mod. My question is what exactly. Here in B.C., Canada there are brutal AirCare emmisions legislation. I can't just throw out the cat or anything easy like that. Also, the 83 Celica's oxygen sensor is on the exhaust manifold, so that rules out a header unless there is some way to keep the sensor. Next, can I take say a 2 1/4" pipe from the manifold/ header back put it through a high flow cat (someone suggested a 3.0 liter generic cat)? For the muffler, what to do there too? My other main problem is $$$. I can't do it all at once so I was looking for the best way to progress. Brian xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Benjamin T.P. Tan" Subject: MSDs: Thanks for info To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (mods) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 09:09:41 +0800 (WST) Thanks to all who replied to me on MSDs (Multi Spark Discharge). I'm now compiling the info into the Ignition FAQ and should be posting it soon. bentan '80 Celica (TA40/2TB - now 5-speed) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 19:39:04 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Exhaust...more specifically To try and beat these nasty air-care/inspection thingies which are in place solely to annoy decent people (and keep the earth from getting toasted in a big way - but i always manage to convince myself that my single case won't hurt much!) try the following: Get someone to make up a straight pipe which bolts in exactly where the CAT converted goes. Then just remember to swap it back in before inspection time. If you have roadside visual inspections, I have heard of people "punching out" the guts of a cat and replacing them with a simple pipe so it looks like you still have a cat. Combine this with an inexpensive free-flowing muffler and you should have a low-cost start to performance mods. regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 19:42:37 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: MSDs (as in like CDI..) MSD: Multi Spark Discharge basically, it just hammers the sparkplug multiple times where it used to just get fired once. At idle this may mean 3-5 (or more) sparks per shot and decreases as RPM increases. This helps your low RPM performance in applications where the fuel mixture has been richened for top-end performance. (I own one but will be upgrading to direct-fire HPV-3 this spring) hope this helps! Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 11:32:42 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Time! > ...My car one again is a 1983 Celica GT > with the 22-RE engine and EFI. > > Suspension > > Grab some 1 and 1/2 inch lowered springs and a sway bar if I can get it. I'm not a complete suspension guru, but I think you'd be better off by getting better shocks, either by themselves or with the lowered springs. At any rate, the better shocks will ultimately be cheaper, since you can just "plug and play", while the lower springs will change your camber, which is basically unadjustable on that car. In other words, with lower springs, your tires will look like /----\, leaning in at the top. Very good for cornering, very bad for your daily driver because it will destroy your tires unless you take them and have them turned around on the rim from time to time. Also, usually when your camber changes, so does your toe. Just something to think about. Any suggestions out there on good shocks for that car? Koji? Botoboy? > Engine > > I looked at the wimpy air intake on my car and decided it would be a > good place to start. > > Does K & N make a filter to fit the 83 Celica? I think not! But then > I remembered someone discussing making your own. I can't find that > message so If anyone can recall it that would be great! It said something > about strapping a tube to the intake and fitting the filter at one end. > I am really interested in this. Not that this is a bad idea, but you need to learn how to adjust your air flow meter in conjunction with this change. This is a "free" thing that may help more than just a different filter, and will probably need to be adjusted anyway if you get a different filter setup. (Sorry, not an EFI guru so I don't have any hints here. The old TRD manual has some info on this, and you will have to learn the when and how much from experience. > Next is to get a "moderate" cam from TRD, one with the same duration > and lift. I figure if I can get more air inflow this should be a good > next move. Ummm, isn't the same duration and same lift pretty much the same cam? I think you want the same duration and _more_ lift. At any rate, RJ at TRD will lead you to what you really want/need > With these two mods should I consider a better spark setup, such as those > from ACCEL and JACOBS. The jacobs one looked like a good deal. I read > about it in a magazine. It determines the spark need of each individual > cylinder and gives it the optimum amount. What do you think? Avoid Jacobs. I have his "energy team" on my truck and didn't see enough difference to justify the cost. As Louis pointed out, if you have HEI, you probably don't have a problem at this point. I know a guy circle-track racing a starlet with a 3TC engine in it, who can run 8000 rpm for 20 miles without a hitch, and he is running an HEI. You shouldn't have a problem. > Exhaust > > >From what I read about the tests the guy with a 22_RE in a truck did, > I'm not to convince about the effectiveness of this mod, maybe you can > change my mind. Ummm, I think you may mean me, and it is just a 22R. What I was trying to say was that putting a free-er flowing exhaust on a completely stock carb/cam setup is a waste. On the other hand, it you open up the front end and get a taller cam, this could be a very worthwhile experience. Yes, TRD makes headers with the O2 sensor port and scavenge tubes built right into them. However, going along with what Fred pointed out, if you are sure you are never going to get visually inspected, I'd take the entire manifold/cat/exhaust off and put it in storage, and get a (cheaper) non-efi header, build a new exhaust pipe, and put on a free-flow muffler, such as one of those mentioned in the muffler review last week. Put it all back together with some high temp lubricant (like brake lubricant) so that you can get it back apart easily enough, and then just plan on making a swap in/out once a year, at inspection time. BTW, I don't recommend that _you_ break the law. (IOW, don't hold me liable if you get caught :-)) > Differential > > My differential is screwed up anyway and I had planned to replace it > with a used Celica one anyways. I'm uncertain however about what I'm > supposed to do. Do I want a higher gear ratio or what? If anyone knows > what ratio I've got and can tell me what I SHOULD have, I'd be in heaven! Well, I don't know if I can help you to differential ratio heaven, but I will say that you want to go to a numerically higher ratio, such as a 4.10 or higher. I think that there was also a 4.33 or so available on Celica's, but I can't remember for sure. Actually, if you stay with your 14 inch rims and go to a 50 or 60 series tire along with the 4.10 differential, this will probably be enough change to make a significant difference. Remember that your speedo will be off, but you can calculate that amount and then compensate in your head. > That's it, this is what I have learned form this list, thanks a bunch! The > end of the semester is near for me and they will dump my account so please\ > try to respond ASAP...just a request, not meant to offend anyone who > doesn't read their mail much. Be sure to try to unsubscribe before they yank your account so that we can keep proper track of things. Hope you can resubscribe next semester. BTW, if you're going to still be at school, sometimes by getting friendly with the right sysadmin they will give you a more permanent account for your use, possibly on another machine. It doesn't hurt to try... Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Brian Goble Subject: Shocks for Autoxing '88 Supra Turbo To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, supras@vicor.com Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 10:35:02 PST I am currently deciding what to do about shocks for my '88 Supra Turbo which I am autoxing. My Supra has TEMS (Toyota Electronically Maintained Suspension) and I want to stay in stock class (B-stock) so I can't use anybody else's (only genuine toyota) shocks that work with TEMS...although I could go for manually adjustable shocks. When I bought the car 10k miles ago (at 65k) the mechanic who did the buyer's inspection for me said that they were original shocks but that they weren't leaking or anything. I still wan't to replace them if the price is reasonable. I called Russel Toyota and got a quote of $90 for front and $128 for rear. This almost sounds too cheap...is there something I am missing? Someone else told me that the shocks that work with TEMS are usually around $1200 for 4! If I can get new toyota shocks (that work with TEMS) for < $500 then I think I will. I would like to get something stiffer than stock but I would hate to give up TEMS...anybody wanna try to talk me into some non-toyota manually ajustable shocks? Thanx for any info...especially regarding the pricing stuff... -Brian ('88 Supra Turbo) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Ehab Aljandali Subject: Re: Shocks for Autoxing '88 Supra Turbo To: goble@maxwell.ee.washington.edu (Brian Goble) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 10:52:19 PST Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, supras@vicor.com > Hi Brian, how are you? try 1-800-3259581 for toy parts. I checked the tems shocks and I think they were about $300 max for four units. Do not pay any more...shop around. Tockico has manual adjus shocks for about $400 for 4... I can recommend a local shop to ups them to you. BTY: I am doing 14 PSI and it feels great... I am planning to update the brakes and the intercooler and the turbo in the near future... Ehab (89 Supra Turbo Targa) > I am currently deciding what to do about shocks for my '88 Supra Turbo > which I am autoxing. My Supra has TEMS (Toyota Electronically Maintained > Suspension) and I want to stay in stock class (B-stock) so I can't use > anybody else's (only genuine toyota) shocks that work with TEMS...although > I could go for manually adjustable shocks. > > When I bought the car 10k miles ago (at 65k) the mechanic who did the > buyer's inspection for me said that they were original shocks but that > they weren't leaking or anything. > > I still wan't to replace them if the price is reasonable. I called Russel > Toyota and got a quote of $90 for front and $128 for rear. This almost > sounds too cheap...is there something I am missing? Someone else told me > that the shocks that work with TEMS are usually around $1200 for 4! > > If I can get new toyota shocks (that work with TEMS) for < $500 then I > think I will. I would like to get something stiffer than stock but I > would hate to give up TEMS...anybody wanna try to talk me into some > non-toyota manually ajustable shocks? > > Thanx for any info...especially regarding the pricing stuff... > > -Brian ('88 Supra Turbo) > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 15:02:22 EST From: johnd@iplmaster (John Deame) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, supras@vicor.com Subject: Turbo or Not Turbo I am in the market for an 1986.5 to 1987 Supra, and although I am tempted to invest another $600-$700 for the Turbo version, I am very apprehensive about buying a turbo of any kind, let alone a 7-8 year old turbo. I would definitely welcome the extra horses but am concerned about reliability. Being that turbos are exhaust driven and get very HOT, is it not imperative to maintain them appropriately, such as: 1) put fresh synthetic oil in every 2-3k miles 2) let car idle for ~1 min before driving or shutting motor off 3) preferrably install an oil accumulator which will keep feeding the turbo after engine shutdown. If I cannot guarantee the above steps were followed, am I setting myself up for an expensive repair (either worn turbo or other engine components due to poor lubracation) ? How can I tell if it is excessively worn? How much is a new turbo? Can I bypass it if it goes south? Thanks for your input, JED ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John E. Deame _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ Senior Design Engineer _/ _/ _/ _/ Martin Marietta Electronics & Missiles _/ _/_/ _/ _/ P.O. Box 555837 MP-1304 _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Orlando, FL 32855-5837 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ EMAIL: john-deame@orl.mmc.com VOICE: 407-356-8450/8084 FAX: 407-356-8944 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 22:08:05 -0500 From: dibb@jac.webo.dg.com (James Dibb) To: Brian Goble , supras@vicor.com, Subject: Re: Shocks for Autoxing '88 Supra Turbo $1200 is a lot for four shocks. I had the front two struts replaced a year ago for around $400. I plan on having the rear two struts replaced this spring for around $450. This is for an '87 turbo with TEMS (including labor at the dealer). The quote from Russell Toyota seems just about right. Hope this helps. ? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 00:00:35 -0800 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Time! _Suspension > > Grab some 1 and 1/2 inch lowered springs and a sway bar if I can get > it. A sway bar would be nice... it dramatically reduces the body roll these unit-bodies are notorious for. > I'm not a complete suspension guru, but I think you'd be better off by > getting better shocks, either by themselves or with the lowered > springs. At any rate, the better shocks will ultimately be cheaper, > since you can just "plug and play", while the lower springs will change > your camber, which is basically unadjustable on that car. In other > words, with lower springs, your tires will look like /----\, leaning in > at the top. Very good for cornering, very bad for your daily driver > because it will destroy your tires unless you take them and have them > turned around on the rim from time to time. Also, usually when your > camber changes, so does your toe. Just something to think about. > Any suggestions out there on good shocks for that car? Koji? Botoboy? _Camber Moto-boto *grin* at your service. I have to agree with Tom on the suspension tibit. Unless performance is quite vital to your every day driving (into the "speed racer 9/10ths" gig on a daily basis, ex. exiting out of on/off-ramps under full throttle and four-wheel drifting into your lane)... camber adjustments should be restricted. But a little negative camber sure keeps the car in-line if you love over-steering and throttle to correct your car's attitude/direction. If it see more commuter mileage keep the camber stock... it will save you on quite a bit of expense especially on new tires... unless you have access to a tire machine and just love to rotate your tires. _Springs Call me an old Boto... but I prefer progressive rates over straight rate for street driving (The boy-racer is still there but the my body-parts are getting old... *haha*). Straight rate springs are great if you are into go-carts *haha* they do drive like one but we are dealing with an everyday drive (I assume) becomes quite a pain (literally). I am somewhat Eibach bias though... They do cost a little more but I believe they are worth the pretty penny. The Eibachs will not look like they lower the car alot initially but with a little hard driving the suspension will gradually set in place... and look cool too. Please do not cut the spring for the "look". It's nice to be "styling and profiling" but we are looking for performance first. Function before form. _Shocks To be honest I never got a chance to test the Tokico Illuminas I bought for my GT-S (it is still in Hawaii) but I did get a chance to test a modified Rabbit GT-i (Koji is probably cringing... "Nazi-worshipping, Hitler loving, VW traitor" *haha*) that was outfitted with a set. Front-wheel drives are interesting beasts... you do need a finer touch on the throttle to maintain a clean line through a corner... continous throttle through a corner stabilizes the car dramatically nothing like a good 'ol rear wheel drive to where the drive-line slack premits you to stab at the throttle an be a little sloppy *haha* (hmmm... I wonder why I enjoy rear-wheel drive alot more I did enjoy the adjustability of it. It does come in handy when you want to take a date out (as Koji metioned earlier) some girls do not wish to experience what passing kidney stones feel like *haha*. I also heard so much chatter about the problems with Tokico's... but it seems more like bad luck/bad batch. Bottom line is they are warrantied for "LIFE"... So if you ever blow the seals on these puppies, take it back to the nearest authorized Tokico dealer and they will replace them. It the pake' (chinese)/jew side of me coming out *haha*. It too good to pass a great bargain in modified/aftermarket parts. _Cams > > Next is to get a "moderate" cam from TRD, one with the same duration > > and lift. I figure if I can get more air inflow this should be a good > > next move. _Cams > Ummm, isn't the same duration and same lift pretty much the same cam? I > think you want the same duration and _more_ lift. At any rate, RJ at > TRD will lead you to what you really want/need Are you looking for more of a auto-crossing cam or a highway top-end speed demon? If you are looking for for AC'ing try a medium agressive lift cam with a longer duration. It will boost horse-power a little (not as dramatic as a big lift/high rpm cam) but it will give you a broad torque-band to power it out with on those apex-clipping exercises. If you are looking for top-speed a bigger lift cam would be your choice of preference. The power band will end up being alot narrower to play with but when you are in the right rpm range the car will just pull well top-end. You must take "alot" into consideration... i.e. valve clearance, valve float, a little more secure bottom half to handle the higher rpms, fuel (starvation, mixture, flow), etc... mo money, mo money, mo money. It's a money-pit with an adrenaline kick! Review your purpose/function and then give TRD a call. _Ignition > Avoid Jacobs. I have his "energy team" on my truck and didn't see > enough difference to justify the cost. As Louis pointed out, if you > have HEI, you probably don't have a problem at this point. I know a guy > circle-track racing a starlet with a 3TC engine in it, who can run 8000 > rpm for 20 miles without a hitch, and he is running an HEI. You > shouldn't have a problem. Wasn't there earlier rambling abouth Jacobs products being "snake-oil" and they having pushy "sales-droid". > Be sure to try to unsubscribe before they yank your account so that we > can keep proper track of things. Hope you can resubscribe next > semester. BTW, if you're going to still be at school, sometimes by > getting friendly with the right sysadmin they will give you a more > permanent account for your use, possibly on another machine. It doesn't > hurt to try... Do it right and we be more than happy to help you scrape the chunk of sh_t of your nose *haha* (miscellaneous ramblin). Ciao, Allan "Botoboy" Chen Silicon Graphics Inc. Mountain View, CA allanc@sgi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 00:36:11 -0800 To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Bay Area get-together... Folks, The Bay_Area get-together was a small group but a success nontheless (Hey Erin where the heck were you *haha* just kidding). My apology goes to Gary Hong, his wishes were to join us but his obligations with work did not permit it... (French maids, wimmin that's why *haha*). I would like to thank the Philip Dang (a.k.a. Celica-boy) for his generosity at the East Ocean Restaurant. He did not even permit us to fight for the bill. The kid's got a great heart. He made the guided tour through San Fran alittle more bearable in my "white death" (BMW... Broke My Wallet :^) '02... see the smiley Gary). I hope I didn't strike fear into your heart there Chris *grin*. Chris it was a pleasure to have you as a guest... please visit more often. Those admin pointers were great... fun fun fun *hahaha* hack hack hack. It was alot of fun to trade alot of car stories with. We must do it again and soon. Please give autocrossing a consideration, you will still remain a toy_modder and it will be fun. I must apologize to Chris since we were unable to show him alittle more of the city... they next time we will pay the Mitchell Brothers a visit ;^} And special thanks goes out to the ladies of the Palo Alto Police department. Without their trust and faith, Chris and I would have never been unleashed to roam freely on Highway 101 again *haha* (that is another story... did we mentioned about Tsing Tao?... ooops). Darn, better get that tail light fixed :^). Latas, Botoboy Silicon Graphics Inc. Mountain View, CA allanc@sgi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:50:28 PST From: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Bay Area get-together... } The Bay_Area get-together was a small group but a success nontheless }(Hey Erin where the heck were you *haha* just kidding). Ah! I waz being anti-social ;-) ...weekdaze are kinda tough, especially cruising up from the South Bay...I'll have to make a point of it next time! In anycase, the next time *any* of you come down, bring a mountain bike along if possible...lot's to do! We all can go all-terrainin...Life is filled with thrills and spills over here, heh, heh... ;-) (j.k.) } } And special thanks goes out to the ladies of the Palo Alto Police }department. Without their trust and faith, Chris and I would have never been }unleashed to roam freely on Highway 101 again *haha* (that is another story... Hey Botoboy, are you ever gonna let us in on this thing about playing with that Stealth? (yet another story) :-) :-) aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Bay Area get-together... Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 12:40:46 PST Hey Allan, >Folks, > > The Bay_Area get-together was a small group but a success nontheless >(Hey Erin where the heck were you *haha* just kidding). Uh, I think it's Aaron, not Erin :). > My apology goes to Gary Hong, his wishes were to join us but his >obligations with work did not permit it... (French maids, wimmin that's why >*haha*). Yup, feel in love with a french babe in Cambridge. Ok, I know, this is a mods list not a damn soaps list so I'll shut up. {stuff about what I missed at the BA mods get together} Thanks for updating us on what happened. I really wish I could be there to meet Chris. I wanted him to look at my Celica, but he would probably just gone in the engine compartment and rip apart all my stock components and vacuum hoses ;) and say "THERE! I have just modified your Celica. It should be a bit faster w/o the air cleaner, vacuum hoses to the EGR, blah blah blah!" Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 13:48:24 -0800 To: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung), toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Bay Area get-together... > } The Bay_Area get-together was a small group but a success nontheless > }(Hey Aaron (sorry about the mis-spelling) where the heck were you *haha* just > }kidding). > > Ah! I waz being anti-social ;-) ...weekdaze are kinda tough, especially > cruising up from the South Bay...I'll have to make a point of it next time! There should no excuses :^). > In anycase, the next time *any* of you come down, bring a mountain bike > along if possible...lot's to do! We all can go all-terrainin...Life > is filled with thrills and spills over here, heh, heh... ;-) (j.k.) Spills... arggghhh. Tell me about it. > Hey Botoboy, are you ever gonna let us in on this thing about playing with > that Stealth? (yet another story) :-) :-) Stealth... what Stealth *hahaha* What can a little '02 do to a Stealth? *grin* Latas, Botoboy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 21:35:02 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: Turbo or Not Turbo Although I don't have a turbo, from seeing what a dude out here has done with his turbo RX7 for about the same money than I have put into my 4AGE on my Corolla, I would recommend the turbo. There just seems to be so much more you can do with a turbo that you can do yourself. As far as your other questions go.....I hope someone with a turbo can help (I am turbo-dumb!) ***** C'mon guys.....wake up! ***** (there, that should help!) Should you really discover that the turbo is cooked I believe it is very easy (ok..not so easy to make the right tubes) from an electronics point of view to just delete the turbo....0 boost will be detected by the EFI therefore nothing will be done to the fuel mixture/timing/etc. Going from non-turbo to turbo is a MUCH more difficult thing however. Hope this helps. (others: correct BS wherever detected) Wising I had a Super/Turbo-charged-4AGE, Fredo >I am in the market for an 1986.5 to 1987 Supra, and although I am >tempted to invest another $600-$700 for the Turbo version, I am >very apprehensive about buying a turbo of any kind, let alone a >7-8 year old turbo. I would definitely welcome the extra horses >but am concerned about reliability. > >Being that turbos are exhaust driven and get very HOT, is it not >imperative to maintain them appropriately, such as: > > 1) put fresh synthetic oil in every 2-3k miles > 2) let car idle for ~1 min before driving or shutting motor off > 3) preferrably install an oil accumulator which will keep feeding > the turbo after engine shutdown. > >If I cannot guarantee the above steps were followed, am I setting >myself up for an expensive repair (either worn turbo or other engine >components due to poor lubracation) ? > >How can I tell if it is excessively worn? > >How much is a new turbo? > >Can I bypass it if it goes south? > >Thanks for your input, >JED xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:47:15 EST From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Bay Area get-together... > Thanks for updating us on what happened. I really wish I could be there to > meet Chris. I wanted him to look at my Celica, but he would probably just > gone in the engine compartment and rip apart all my stock components and > vacuum > hoses ;) and say "THERE! I have just modified your Celica. It should be a > bit faster w/o the air cleaner, vacuum hoses to the EGR, blah blah blah!" > > Gary Hey, I guess you guys _are_ paying attention! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 06:04:51 HST From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Errr About the Celica and "pulling" the egr etc etc... Just BB-Shot the sucker and plug the lines... Disconnect the belt to the air pump and reconnect it when you take your emission test. =) -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary H To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: RE: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 8:54:12 PST >Errr About the Celica and "pulling" the egr etc etc... > >Just BB-Shot the sucker and plug the lines... Disconnect the belt to the air >pump and reconnect it when you take your emission test. > >=) > >-Koji Hey, that's actually a good idea (about the air pump). But would that screw up my performance rather than increase it? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 23:59:15 CST From: toymod@sysfjo.uucp@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com (Fred Oberbuchner) To: umiami.ir.miami.edu!SSOONG@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Re: 4AGE mods [Simon wrote:] >Hi Fredo, > >I talk to my mechanic about the mods you suggested last week. He said he does >not recommand me to do anything to my car. First, I am still a student. Students are not allowed to have fun???? >Second, that is the only transportation I have. Since modding my car it has not seen one minute of broken time, so this is not an issue. Actually, it's probably MORE reason to make it peppier so that you enjoy it more and get all of what you paid for (in the original car purchase). As a superchips (?) ad once said: "Now you can get the car you thought you were buying!" (or something like that.....) >Third, my car is in a very >good condition, once I do the mods many problem will come(?) A good condition car is the best to start modifying. Mods do not mean problems. I agree that taking a car and doubling it's power output will probably decrease it's life expectancy, HOWEVER, the power gains we are talking about are NOT 100% and Toyotas are so darn overdesigned anyway (also the opinion of MY mechanic, who builds race cars - primarily Japanese - for a living) >Fourth, changing >the filter and the muffler will increase 5-10% hp in maximum and I have to >spend several hundred dollars and it is not worth(?) A replacement Toyota air filter up here is abut $15-20. A K&N modification could be done for as little as $80 (with a million mile warranty on the filter). These filters are washable so you save $15-$20/year. This means that in 5 years, the mod has paid for itself. This does not even count the extra enjoyment you have had out of your car. The 5-10% is probably more like 10-15% BUT the several hundred dollars probably includes paying him far too much for labour. The whole business could cost you: Air filter: $100 Exhaust: $150 ------------------------ $250 Say $300 MAXIMUM. Still not SEVERAL hundred dollars. As you ARE limited financially (lots of us are these days) try looking for some good deals like the mufflers reviewed in the muffler review on this list. I seem to remember some of them there for <$100 that seemed to perform well. Also, do the easy stuff yourself rather than having some $50/hour person do it. >What is your command? He suggest others mods to the engine and that will >increase the performance more but much more money. With more profit in his pocket no doubt. (I am sorry if I am bashing a person you like but this attitude of his sounds like someone who drives a chevette... after all, a car is only transportation isn't it.....NO WAY! Next he'll be telling you to forget this Jap Crap and go buy a real man's car). > >My question are: 1. Do you feel more power after you do the mods?(Is that > physical or only psychological?) YES. There is a "seat-of-the-pants" noticeable difference. I did the exhaust ($750 or so HKS system! - overkill but I ENJOYED it! although there are other systems which can be done for a LOT less) first and noticed IMMEDIATELY that the car had more power. ALSO, an added benefit was that it sounded so nice and throaty. Just like a finely-tuned performance machine (also known as a Toyota) SHOULD. No, I did not let this cool sound cloud my critical opinion of whether or not there was more power....THERE WAS! > 2. After you did the mods, do you car have more problem? > Actually, from talking to a person who understands pushing cars to the limit (my mechanic again!) I learned a lot of techniques for keeping your car running. Like going with synthetic oil and changing it every 5000 km. This has got to be the most basic thing done on race cars. (I am off your topic...sorry) I started this as a result of wanting to do mods, which is how I met my mechanic, so I guess you could say that my car should last LONGER as a result of my mods! (see the strange logic here?) --- back to the question --- Once again, I have had NO problems with my car since doing the mods. PERIOD. The only concern there might be is with snow getting plugged around the air filter. I believe you are in FL. Does it snow there (usually)? Also, I took the horrible intake tube off my 2WD Toy truck and have a stock replacement K&N and have run the entire winter with NO PROBLEMS. [ stereo stuff deleted ] > >BTW, do you know how to adjust the A/C idle(the white plastic knob at the >driver's side near the top of the clutch fluid reservior beside the brake >fluid reservoir and the strut. If I turn all the way up, the A/C will >suck so much power from the engine; if I turn it down, the A/C is not >very cold. How can I find the optinum point? Ooops. I don't have A/C! I did check the Toy shop manual, but it didn't say anything. But then I don't have A/C so I have never studied the system. This may be a good question for the generic Toyota list or even the Corolla mailing list. > >Cheers, >Simon Sorry if I offend someone you like but get a real mechanic. As far as I am concerned, anyone who suggests (especially to a person with limited disposable income) that they shouldn't bother doing the easy stuff and give them lots of money for engine mods is not in touch with reality. IMHO I believe that if you take the advice from this list and do whatever you can for yourself (exhaust, air filter) and you will not only get a better performing machine, but the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself. I am NOT mechanically inclined but I get a real boost whenever I can do some little things on my car and it turns out great. VERY REWARDING! As for your mechanic. Maybe he just doesn't understand that you don't have to do things like changing cams (or engines) to boost performance. I had the cams changed in my car and it was probably the most disappointing of all mods I had done. Certainly not the bang for the buck I expected. But then again, my mech warned me (I of course knew better!). Once again, I am sorry if I seem to be coming down hard on your mechanic, but (as you can tell) I get pretty flamed when people scoff at the inexpensive options and point you toward the expensive stuff. Regards, Fred p.s. I cc'd this to the list and invite comments from everyone else! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 04:18:41 -0800 To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com, Subject: Re: 4AGE mods Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) >>SIMON: > >I talk to my mechanic about the mods you suggested last week. He said he does > >not recommand me to do anything to my car. First, I am still a student. He sounds like a very conservative mechanic... It's all based on your function. I believe he is genuine in the sense of looking out for you but if it performance that you are looking for... it does not look like he would be much help. Try giving a performance mod shop a look. Not only are they very well informed but most are really nice folks who are more than willing to help you. > >Second, that is the only transportation I have. There is no validity in that statement. It will all be determined by your purpose. There are modifications that could be completed without the risk of reducing the reliability of the car and as Fredo has stated... Toyotas are over-engineered. If you are determined to do what you plan to do... you will do it regardless. Ask the fellow modders here what their daily drivers are... the answers will vary but it is based on the level of modification and their purpose/function. Koji, care to elaborate on what we considered our daily regular drivers... maybe not, you are the exception to the cause *hahaha*. > >Third, my car is in a very good condition, once I do the mods many problem > >will come(?) Again, irregardless of the condition... you will find this newsgroup is filled with people who will create magic out of junkheaps. Some of us had started with pristine performance cars... the one thing about human nature is that we do not settle for less. We have to make things a little better that's all. Regarding about problems related with mods... there are no guarantees in life. Murphy's Law will always apply but if the mods are done properly the problems encountered will be a minimum or none at all. The key to this is knowledge... that's what this mod list is about. > >Fourth, changing > >the filter and the muffler will increase 5-10% hp in maximum and I have to > >spend several hundred dollars and it is not worth(?) Not a necessarily true. If the decision is properly made the dollars spent could be reduced to a minimum. An example, if emissions law permits in your locale, a punched out catalytic converter (labor intensive) or a test pipe ($20-30) would dramatically free up exhaust flow without the big bucks for an exhaust system... even though HKS are stainless and they look nice *haha*. > >What is your command? He suggest others mods to the engine and that will > >increase the performance more but much more money. Now your mechanic is beginning to sound seedy... Get another mech, he doesn't sound honest and upfront or either that he has no clue regarding performance and simple mods. Seems like he is smelling money... keep an out on this guy. BTW, what were his suggestions in bringing the car's performance up to par? > >My question are: 1. Do you feel more power after you do the mods?(Is that > > physical or only psychological?) I could probably be both... I get a kick out doing the mods myself (self gratification) and it all adds to it when the car performs well too. You may experience the changes physically i.e. feel like you are boing planted into your seat a little bit more etc... all dependant on the mod. > > 2. After you did the mods, do you car have more problem? Again, not necessarily true if the mods are done properly. With the mods you are planning to do... reliability/dependability would not an issue. > >BTW, do you know how to adjust the A/C idle(the white plastic knob at the > >driver's side near the top of the clutch fluid reservior beside the brake > >fluid reservoir and the strut. If I turn all the way up, the A/C will > >suck so much power from the engine; if I turn it down, the A/C is not > >very cold. How can I find the optinum point? That sounds like a generic maintainence question... I am a thorough AX person, but a good way to find out would be to refer to a Factory Toyota Manual. > Ooops. I don't have A/C! I did check the Toy shop manual, but it didn't say > anything. But then I don't have A/C so I have never studied the system. > This may be a good question for the generic Toyota list or even the Corolla > mailing list. Hey Fred, How could I get in touch with the Corolla list? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 09:44:17 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: 4AGE mods > Sender: Fred Oberbuchner > Subject: Re: 4AGE mods > > [Simon wrote:] > > >Hi Fredo, > > > >I talk to my mechanic about the mods you suggested last week. He said he does > >not recommand me to do anything to my car. First, I am still a student. > > Students are not allowed to have fun???? > While in undergrad, some years ago, I had an '80 Mazda 626 that I wanted to put a Rotary engine in. My mechanic, at the time, who was an avid auto- crosser with an RX-3 fully worked, suggested that I should not do that modification. His justification for not doing it was that "you are not [I was not] experienced enough for a car that powerful." I agreed with him and never did the modification. However, to this day, I have always wondered what it would have been like to have a ported Rotary engine in a 2-dr 626. I feel as if I was "cheated" out of the fun that I wanted to experience. Moral of this story: Do the modification if you want irregardless of what you mechanic says. It is up to you and it's your money, experience, etc. Also, if he's not willing to do these mods I would seek out another mechanic who can and will (reputable of course) do it for you. > >Second, that is the only transportation I have. > This is the reason why it is the only one that you can modify. > > >Third, my car is in a very > >good condition, once I do the mods many problem will come(?) > Ditto to Fred's and Allan's comments... If you're only going to change the exhaust and the air filter, it is almost impossible for there to be any reliability problems - if you do have any problems, I would think that it was a mechanic related problem as opposed to a modification problem. And, as Fred says, the K&N will pay for itself in the long run and then start saving you some money. I did an exhaust mod to my car and I think that it is sounds nice and the engine seems to breathe a lot better than before... An alternative could be to do the exhaust modification whenever you need some exhaust work. It was much cheaper for me to do my custom exhaust than it was to use OEM exhaust - my exhaust cost >$140 which included custom bend 2 1/4" pipes, from the cat converter back, into a Walker Dynomax (Super Turbo) muffler. The OEM would have cost me ~$200 + labor. > >What is your command? He suggest others mods to the engine and that will > >increase the performance more but much more money. > What kind of mods is he recommending? > > 2. After you did the mods, do you car have more problem? > > Never had a problem... actually, the car seems to run a lot better and it is my every day car. _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email: egy@cc.bellcore.com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Mail: Errol Young _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Bell Communications Research, Inc. _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ 444 Hoes Lane, RRC 4D-531 _/_/_/_/rrol _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/oung Piscataway, NJ 08854 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:25:20 EST From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com@bellcore.com Subject: Re: 4AGE mods > From: eyoung1@cosmos.bellcore.com (Errol Young) > Subject: Re: 4AGE mods >... stuff deleted.... > my exhaust cost >$140 which included custom bend 2 1/4" pipes, from the cat ^^^^^ I meant less than (<) $140..... _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Email: egy@cc.bellcore.com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Mail: Errol Young _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Bell Communications Research, Inc. _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ 444 Hoes Lane, RRC 4D-531 _/_/_/_/rrol _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/oung Piscataway, NJ 08854 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 17:02:05 EST To: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com, Subject: Re: 4AGE mods Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) > >I talk to my mechanic about the mods you suggested last week. He said he does > >not recommand me to do anything to my car. First, I am still a student. > Students are not allowed to have fun???? > >Second, that is the only transportation I have. > Since modding my car it has not seen one minute of broken time, so this is not > an issue. The first time I decided to go with aftermarket, modification oriented parts on my car, the reason was entirely financial. The exhaust rusted out on my M**da R*7 (not a Toyota, sorry), and when I found out the price of the stock parts (over $2600 for the cat on back...) I just about went down to the dealership with a shotgun and started blasting the salesdroids. Thankfully, I quite sanely don't have a shotgun - makes it a lot easier to resist that kind of temptation. So I looked into the perfomance mod oriented exhausts, and got a complete (including working catalyst) header-on-back-to-tailpipe setup for $700 INSTALLED. What a win!, I was thinking, as I went to pick the car up after the installation, and then I stepped on the gas and found out that I was an even bigger winner than at first I had thought.... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: fjo-toymod@majikthise.wpg.paramax.com Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 21:06:05 CST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota-mods mailing list) Subject: Corolla mailing list For those of you interested: The Corolla mailing list is at corolla-request@mcs.com for subscription requests corolla@mcs.com for postings. Regards, Fredo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: c.pugsley@trl.oz.au Subject: Interesting car hire in the US? To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 17:47:38 +1000 (EST) Hi there, I am going to the US on later this year for a holiday and was wondering if ANYone can tell me if there are places in california or Hawaii (Ted?) that hire 'interesting' cars (EG supra/ celica GT4/ porsche). If you know anything about this can you please mail me. Cheers, Craig. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 03:37:27 -0800 To: Craig Pugsley Subject: Re: Interesting car hire in the US? Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Mar 31, 5:47pm, Craig Pugsley wrote: > Subject: Interesting car hire in the US? Hey Craig, > I am going to the US on later this year for a holiday and was wondering > if ANYone can tell me if there are places in california or Hawaii > (Ted?) that hire 'interesting' cars (EG supra/ celica GT4/ porsche). What do you mean by hire? Do you mean as a rental? I do know of a couple of Rental places in Hawaii that do carry things like Lamborghini Contach & Diablo's, Ferrari 308, 328's, Daytonas (or kit car), Corvettes, and other popular exotic cars. The place is called Funway Rentals... Koji-san care to elaborate on this? As for California (atleast Northern Cal), I am all not that familiar. Aaron "Mr. Shiny", Gary "My Car feels good", or Phillip "Celica-boy"... care to supply some input? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 04:27:57 -0800 To: Gary H , tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu, Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) On Mar 29, 8:54am, Gary H wrote: > Subject: RE: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) > >Errr About the Celica and "pulling" the egr etc etc... > > > >Just BB-Shot the sucker and plug the lines... Disconnect the belt to the air > >pump and reconnect it when you take your emission test. > > > >=) > > > >-Koji > > Hey, that's actually a good idea (about the air pump). But would that > screw up my performance rather than increase it? As for the EGR valve... I believe the acronym stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation. It just feeds exhaust gases from your crankcase (blowby... all piston-ring engines has some bit of it)back into the engine's intake. It's an EPA thing... to meet clean air/emissions standards. The air pump actually causes more detrement to the engine than it does a benefit. What the air pump actually does is to pump air into the exhaust system so that you could clean up you exhaust gases (provides oxygen to unburnt fuel). Another EPA/clean air/emissions thing. A good example of a belt driven item that hinders your car's performance is your AC. Ever notice that whenever you turn your AC on your performance is compromised. It gets sluggish. It is a very common little trick at the drag races to remove your belts for your AC and alternator to reduce mechanical drag on the engine. It's the little things to do to eek out a little more horsies. Latas, Botoboy Silicon Grahics Inc. Mountain View, CA allanc@sgi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: jburney@argos.nodc.noaa.gov Subject: Paeco Address & Number To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods), mr2-interest@validgh.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 7:55:00 EST Here's the info for Paeco ("Competition Parts - founded 1964") Paeco Import Parts 2400 Mountain Drive Birmingham, AL 35226 1-800-326-6401 205-823-7278 The catalog says $3.00 on it but I don't think I paid for it. The catalog is pretty extensive and definitely geared toward the gear-head. As for engines, if you buy in the offseason (Sept 1 - Dec 31) you get a 15% discount and if you pay upfront anytime you get a 5% discount. So the engine prices seem very reasonable if you can buy with a 20% discount. But I still don't have a definitive answer about their quality... Jeff xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: jburney@argos.nodc.noaa.gov Subject: Paeco comments? To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods), mr2-interest@validgh.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 8:13:08 EST Hi all, I just received my first Paeco catalog and spent the night dreaming of new engine mods for my '86 MR2. Their off-season engine pricing seems pretty good and I was drawn to the SRE engine (rated at 164 hp) for the day when mine gives up the ghost (110k and still going strong). I was wondering if anyone on this list has bought and engine, short block or some other large engine components from them and how was the quality and service. In addition, I've seen reference to but no reviews of ignition systems from TEC (?) in Chantilly, VA. Could I get some pointers on these as well. I currently have intake and exhaust mods on the engine and wonder how much of a benefit a new ignition/hotter coil/whatever will give me and at about what price. Any pointers or experiences would be much appreciated. Jeff xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 08:40:02 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: EGR valves and such Here's what I understand about EGR/PCV valves (which isn't much.) Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks and we'll all understand it better. On carberated engines, (I'm not sure about EFI) there are (at least) two hoses coming out of the valve cover. One comes directly out of the cover and goes into the top of the air breather, outside of the filter. The other one has a one-way valve called a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve, and it goes from the valve cover into the intake manifold. Blowby, which Allan mentioned, it the air that leaks past the piston rings into the engine block when the piston rises to compress the fuel/air mixture. The pressurizes the block, which pressurizes the head via the oil passages between the two. The purpose of the PCV valve is to allow that pressure to be released into the intake. Problems and concerns: Here you go, spend all this money on a perfectly good air filter, and then a line from the PCV valve dumps directly into your manifold without so much as a screen. If you can't imagine what this dumps into your fuel/air mix, let me give you a clue. On the high-mileage manifolds I've pulled, there is so much carbon/oil/crap coming into the manifold through that line that the passage is nearly blocked. Now, why do we need _two_ lines? Remember that one of them goes to the _outside_ of the filter, and blocks that stuff. What would happen if we blocked the PCV line? Wouldn't the other line "depressurize" the block? On my Weber racing carb, it has a special attachment for the PCV line to go into the manifold. Does this indicate that we need the line, or that Weber merely wants to make the carb legal in pollution-controlled places? For me, I have my PCV line hooked up until I get more info. Now on EGR valves, you know what I'm gonna say...Start pulling that crap off until the engine won't run anymore, and then put back on the last thing you took off. There. You're done! Take the air pump completely off, cut and crimp the lines into the exhaust manifold, and drill out and remove the air injection tubes in the head. Now you're making horsepower! (BTW, I wouldn't recommend doing this in Cali, or any of your stringently smog-controlled places.) Anybody know the techniques for passing emmissions without your emmissions control stuff? I've heard you can overlean your fuel/air mix and advance your timing until the engine nearly overheats. Anyone? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 08:50:30 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Consumer Reports (and something I forgot) Just got the latest consumer reports which is the automotive issue. If you don't subscribe, go pick up this issue. _Great_ info about new cars. The (as usual) smile favorably upon Toyota. In the section on "Used Cars to Avoid", look and see which manufacturer is _the_only_one_ that has no cars listed. The issue also has separate specs on every car, including horsepower, front to rear weight ratio, price, etc. Great stuff. BTW, what I forgot before was if you ever decide to remove all of that pollution control stuff, then take the O2 sensor out of the exhaust. In some of them (like the older Celica's) this is a huge thing that blocks the flow of the exhaust. On the race car, I took mine out, cut it off, and then bolted the cover back over the hole. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 08:34:25 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Allan sez: } It is a very common little }trick at the drag races to remove your belts for your AC and alternator to ^^^^^^^^^^ Hmmm...removing the belt from the alt...no kidding...I didn't think the alt really affects that much with little/no current draw. Pardon my ignorance, but is it common to run on a near-empty tank of gas to reduce weight? I find I get dramatically better pickup in my celica when the fuel guage below the last quarter mark. aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com Date: 31 Mar 94 09:52:31 -0700 To: toyota-mods#064#su102a.ess.harris.com%smtpgw@email3.sps.mot.com Subject: RE>>Celica Mods (Was Bay Ar Allan sez: } It is a very common little }trick at the drag races to remove your belts for your AC and alternator to ^^^^^^^^^^ I read somewhere that with a high performance ignition system, you are better off to leave the alternator connected to give the system higher voltage. The engine makes enough extra power with a stronger ignition to overcome the drag of the alternator. Everything else can be disconnected, though. Jim Chott rzaa80@email.mot.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 09:34:23 -0800 To: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung), toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) > } It is a very common little > }trick at the drag races to remove your belts for your AC and alternator to ^^^^^^^^^^ > Hmmm...removing the belt from the alt...no kidding...I didn't > think the alt really affects that much with little/no current > draw. Please note that an alternator functions at about 2000 rpms and up. Remember those little electronics lab experiments where you build your own motor from a hand-crank with wounded wire and a magnet. The effort increases dramatically (to be proper... exponentially) as soon as a load in placed in the circuit. That is where you will find substantial mechanical resistance in the alternator... it utilizes the same principal. The next time you look at a non-endurance event... like drag racing the most common set-up of choice would be either a constant drain system (powered by just the battery) or a magneto to provide the spark. > Pardon my ignorance, but is it common to run on a near-empty > tank of gas to reduce weight? I find I get dramatically better > pickup in my celica when the fuel guage below the last quarter mark. Your ignorance is pardoned... BUT DON"T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!!! *hahaha* Ask the Koji-meister... that was just one his favorite things to do. He keeps a 3/4 full tank instead of full tank. He also noted that he has gotten better gas mileage too. You could probably plot a fuel capacity vs. efficiency (gas mileage) graph (ratio) and find the optimal fuel capacity. Hmmm... Anyone with a good plotting software? Latas, Botoboy Silicon Graphics Inc. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: danapple@vicor.com To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: EGR valves and such Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 09:45:05 -0800 > cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) writes: > Anybody know the techniques for passing emmissions without your > emmissions control stuff? I've heard you can overlean your fuel/air mix > and advance your timing until the engine nearly overheats. Anyone? Don't try this is California. They actually check actuation of the EGR valve, (not the modulater) so even having a BB in the vacuum line will cause you to fail. If you plugged the exhaust pipes, but left them in place, you could probably pass. I don't think they check PCV and stuff, but I don't know for sure. I've had some bad experiences in CA, that's why I live in NV now. > Chris Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 13:25:43 EST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: RE>>Celica Mods (Was Bay Ar > I read somewhere that with a high performance ignition system, you are > better off to leave the alternator connected to give the system higher > voltage. The engine makes enough extra power with a stronger ignition > to overcome the drag of the alternator. Everything else can be > disconnected, though. Smokey Yunick of Circle Track racing fame states simply that if you think you are saving horsepower by not running an alternator, you are wrong, and I agree with that statement. I think, however, his statements are based on a couple of assumptions. First, he is talking about using those expensive high-output-voltage/low-input-horsepower alternators, not the stock kind. Secondly, he is talking about an extended event, not a few second blast down the track. If I were going to take a stock Toyota Motorcar with a stock ignition and stock alternator out for a blast down the 1/4 mile, and wanted to be sure that I got absolutely the fastest time possible, I think I'd loosen the alternator belt. Change the ignition, the alternator, or the race, and you might have a different situation on your hands. Also, be aware that they make an 18 volt racing battery that is extremely light. Don't try to power anything else on your car with one, but for powering the ignition coil, they are great! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: pdang@eis.calstate.edu Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 10:45:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) To: Allan -Botoboy- Chen Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Thu, 31 Mar 1994, Allan Chen wrote: [snip, snip] > Ask the Koji-meister... that was just one his favorite things to do. > He keeps a 3/4 full tank instead of full tank. He also noted that he has > gotten better gas mileage too. You could probably plot a fuel capacity vs. > efficiency (gas mileage) graph (ratio) and find the optimal fuel capacity. > Hmmm... Anyone with a good plotting software? > Wait a minute, what's the possibility of water condensing in the gas tank? Over on the BM* mailing list, several netters wrote of replacing the gas tanks. ? Celica-boy #73 pdang@ctp.org xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 10:51:25 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: EGR valves and such }Don't try this is California. They actually check actuation of the }EGR valve, (not the modulater) so even having a BB in the vacuum line }will cause you to fail. If you plugged the exhaust pipes, but left }them in place, you could probably pass. I don't think they check PCV }and stuff, but I don't know for sure. yup, CA regulations are pretty tight. Standard practice during emissions tests is to insert a hand-vacuum pump to the EGR circuit to open it. If it kills or roughens the the engine, you pass. That means if anything is plugged, they'd most likely know about it. The guys do a fairly thourough job at checking for modifications, etc. They also check on later cars to see if the gas filler spout was enlarged/changed to allow use of regular leaded gas! On the other hand, I still don't see how CA can allow the heaps that pump out stinkin fumes and smoke the whole day to pass. aaron xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: derek_deeter@rainbow.mentorg.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 10:54:38 PST To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: EGR valves and such The PCV valve is just that, a one way valve from the crankcase to the manifold (or carb base). If you've ever been able to squeeze the rubber hose going from the pcv valve to the manifold when the engine is idling, you will hear a click, which is the valve closing. The valve is set to open at a certain vacuum level, which is slightly above idle, such that at idle and higher vacuums, crankcase vapors are sucked into the manifold, but at greater pressures, such as WOT, the valve is closed. Normally, at idle, the valve is metering the blowby from the crankcase into the manifold, which the carburetor 'sees' as a sort of vacuum leak, so the carburetor (or EFI) idle metering has to compensate for this. The second hose, which is connected to the air cleaner housing, acts as a vent at idle, so that the crankcase isn't vacuumed out and the vapor is a more consistent mixture. However, at WOT, the PCV valve closes, and that second hose acts as a presure relief for the crankcase and its blowby, and guess where it all goes? Right into the air filter, and into the carb. This second hose used to be a vent tube in the old days, and dump straight to the atmosphere. Now, in racing situations, you could just vent that 2nd hose to atmosphere, or you could get creative, and find some way to create negative pressure in the crankcase at WOT. Some drag racers do this by connecting this vent to the header collectors, which evacuates the crankcase, and gains a few more HP since the pistons aren't pushing atmosphere inside the crankcase. As for passing emissions without the control stuff, it gets more and more difficult the newer the car is. On the older cars, (pre '74) it wasn't too hard to pass by leaning out the idle mixture, retarding the timing (running the risk of overheating), and setting the idle RPM to as high as allowable (1000-1100 RPM). Car would drive like crap, but it passed. You can also do this on newer cars which have been modified - but I've found you still have to have all the other stuff in place, because each system adds it's part in reducing emissions, and it really shows up on the CO and HC meters when one of them is missing. Derek xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 12:06:13 -0800 To: Phillip Dang Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com On Mar 31, 10:45am, Phillip Dang wrote: > Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) > > On Thu, 31 Mar 1994, Allan Chen wrote: > > Ask the Koji-meister... that was just one his favorite things to do. > > He keeps a 3/4 full tank instead of full tank. He also noted that he has > > gotten better gas mileage too. You could probably plot a fuel capacity vs. > > efficiency (gas mileage) graph (ratio) and find the optimal fuel capacity. > > Hmmm... Anyone with a good plotting software? > Wait a minute, what's the possibility of water condensing in the gas > tank? Over on the BM* mailing list, several netters wrote of replacing > the gas tanks. That usually involves stagnant gas... gas that has been sitting for in a tank for awhile or bad gas from a service station. I forgot what the property is called but it has the ability to collect moisture for the air... hmmm, not anhydrous... but. Latas, Botoboy Silicon Graphics Inc. Mountain View, CA allanc@sgi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 15:14:19 EST To: Aaron Lung , toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) > Aaron sez: > Hmmm...removing the belt from the alt...no kidding...I didn't > think the alt really affects that much with little/no current > draw. Well, whatever the current draw, times 12/750, times maybe 1.8 for belt losses and rectification is the horsepower the alternator is pulling off the crank. Zero is much better, but you need a god battery... > Pardon my ignorance, but is it common to run on a near-empty > tank of gas to reduce weight? I find I get dramatically better > pickup in my celica when the fuel guage below the last quarter mark. For straight-line racing, you want as little fuel in the tank as will get you to the finish line under power. There's about 100 lb of fuel in a full tank, and that's a good bit of weight for the teensy motors (speak for your own Toy, John...) in the Toys. However, on the track you need to have enough fuel that the pickups still pick it up on the fast transitions, where the fuel sloshes. At Lime Rock last year, I was doing my hottest lap EVER, and as I topped the climbing turn CHOKE... the fuel had sloshed off to the left so bad that there was none getting to the engine. I still got in a good 1:13.8 lap, which was better than I ever had on the official clock before (the diving turn makes the lap, there - the climbing turn is good for a second or two if you hit it right, but the diving turn is good for as much as six seconds, or for hitting the wall at 100mph if you REALLY screw it up!). So on the track, I go for about a half a tank at the start of a 20 lap run, and that gives me about enough that at the end I'm still able to hammer the climbing turn. > > aaron > -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 12:19:18 -0800 To: lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com (Aaron Lung), toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com Subject: Re: EGR valves and such On Mar 31, 10:51am, Aaron Lung wrote: > Subject: Re: EGR valves and such > On the other hand, I still don't see how CA can allow the heaps > that pump out stinkin fumes and smoke the whole day to pass. Hey, hey, hey... I'm driving one of those heaps *grin*. Latas, Botoboy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: smtpgw!lupienj#064#wal.hp.com@email3.sps.mot.com Date: 31 Mar 94 15:28:05 -0500 To: Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com, Subject: Re: RE>>Celica Mods (Was Bay Ar X-Server: hpwadac X-Dod: 0458 X-Citing: Celtics! X-Cargo: steamed snails X-Retaddr: lupienj@wal.hp.com X-Worldaddr: jrl@world.std.com X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (6.5.6 6/30/89) > } It is a very common little > }trick at the drag races to remove your belts for your AC and alternator to > I read somewhere that with a high performance ignition system, you are > better off to leave the alternator connected to give the system higher > voltage. The engine makes enough extra power with a stronger ignition > to overcome the drag of the alternator. Everything else can be > disconnected, though. I think you may have read wrong - either the wrong info or the wrong magazine... the thing is, you're supposed to charge up the battery to be the same voltage under load that your voltage regulator puts out. This will buy you a couple of horsepower. The only time you really need a hotter spark that normal is if the engine is running badly. It's better to tune it up... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: lupienj@wal.hp.com Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 16:21:25 EST To: "Allan Chen" , Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com > On Mar 31, 10:45am, Phillip Dang wrote: > > Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) > > Wait a minute, what's the possibility of water condensing in the gas > > tank? Over on the BM* mailing list, several netters wrote of replacing > > the gas tanks. > That usually involves stagnant gas... gas that has been sitting for in > a tank for awhile or bad gas from a service station. I forgot what the > property is called but it has the ability to collect moisture for the air... > hmmm, not anhydrous... but. > Botoboy That word is "hydrophilia" - a fluid which exhibits hydrophilia is called "hydrophilic". Gasoline is almost the opposite of hydrophilic - water that gets in the fuel system tends to sink to the lowest point and collect there. You can help prevent this by keeping the tank topped up, since this allows less water vapor to get in and condense. Gas gets stagnant for other reasons, too - partial oxidation, followed by partial evaporation turns pump fuel into a kind of varnish that has to be taken out of the fuel system with nasty solvents and much scraping... -- --- John R. Lupien lupienj@wal.hp.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: danapple@vicor.com To: "Allan Chen" Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, danapple@vicor.com Subject: Re: Celica Mods (Was Bay Area Get Together) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 13:38:37 -0800 > "Allan Chen" writes: > That usually involves stagnant gas... gas that has been sitting for in > a tank for awhile or bad gas from a service station. I forgot what the > property is called but it has the ability to collect moisture for the air... > hmmm, not anhydrous... but. Hydroscopic? But I'm even sure if that's the attraction or lack of attraction... Well, my Supra's been sitting with the same 1/2 tank of gas for about 6 months. I start it up a couple times each week. I get some major plumes of smoke (not steam) when I rev the engine. I was told the gas might have broken down in the 6 months. I failed to use any additive. Advice? > Latas, > Botoboy Dan. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx