^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^ ^^^
^^^ _______ ^^^
^^^ ,' - _ ^^^
^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^
^^^ , ' | ^^^
^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^
^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^
^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^
^^^ ^^^
^^^ P O S T I N G S Jul 1994 ^^^
^^^ --------------------------- ^^^
^^^ ^^^
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 08:35:53 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: New Member
Well, here's another new member. Kevin looks like he has big plans for
his Corolla, so let's toss in some ideas.
Kevin: Welcome aboard!
>>>>>Kevin Smith<<<<<
My name's Kevin Smith, from Los Angeles, CA.
I have an 86 Corolla GTS hatchback that is both my daily driver, and a
car I
wish to improve. Some of the things I've done are:
Modifications:
Tokico springs
Tokico shocks
TRD negative roll blocks (strut-spindle spacers)
15x7 wheels with 195/50 Dunlop D40 M2 tires
GAB strut tower brace
Airflow mixture preset change
Accessories:
Momo Montecarlo steering wheel
Custom-fitted BMHA floor mats
What I plan to do in the future, in order:
Steel camber plates and TRD hard bushings
Volk Racing 15x7 or 14x6 wheels
Some kind of performance muffler
Thorley Header
4mm overbore of throttle body
HKS cams and adjustable sprockets
Some kind of ignition system
HKS 1.75 liter stoker kit, head to manifold porting, HKS clutch and
flywheel
Roll cage and racing belts
Fabricate proper strut tower-to-firewall brace
TRD LSD
Some kind of adjustable shocks
Whatever else I can think of and afford
I've had 3 Toyota's, an early-70's Corolla, an 82 Celica which was used
by a
company called The Toy Store to develop a suspension with, and have had
this
Corolla since new. It's my favorite though, the best car I've ever
had.
Kevin
>>>>><<<<<
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 09:13:54 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Trying to catch up a bit
The administration of the Toyota Mods group is getting way behind. This
is because my right hand man, Tom Julien, is MIA due to his overwhelming
work schedule. At any rate there are two things I'd like to do...
1. Try to get things caught up a bit.
2. Try to find a new right hand person (<---man, for you non-PC
persons.)
As far as getting caught up, I can mail out the most recent user,
supplier, and book listings to those who don't have them. Now, if you
got the last bulk mailing of these lists about 3 months ago, they are
the same. Mainly I am concerned with new members and/or folks who have
accidently blown away their copies of these lists. If you need any of
these, just send me an email with any combination of "books",
"suppliers", and "users" in the subject line (based on what you need)
and I'll get it right out to you. (Kevin Smith, I'll do this for you
without an email.)
Another thing I'm going to try to do is update/improve the supplier
listing. I've learned a lot of stuff in the search for suppliers for my
company, and I have also identified a bunch of suppliers we didn't have
listed. (Gary G: How's that for non-conflict of interest!)
Now, as far as finding a new right hand person (ok, man, since [to my
knowledge] we don't have any women on the list...yet)...Tom basically
kept the libraries. When somebody subscribed or un-subscribed or
changed vehicles/mods, he modified the user database. When someone
mentioned a new supplier, he put them on the supplier listing. Same
thing for the book/magazine listing. Then, he formatted those and
periodically blasted them out to the entire group. Another thing Tom
did was to archive all of the back messages. I believe he even wrote a
script to take out some of the extraneous stuff and make the archive a
bit smaller. Then, he mailed the archives, grouped by month, to me so I
could put them on the Web site.
For the good and advancement of the TM group, we need some volunteer(s)
to take over all(some) of these functions. The only prerequisits are
that you (1) plan to stay available, (2) you basically own/manage your
own machine, (3) your machine has the and memory/Hard drive/etc for the
job, and (4) you promise to put all matters of the Toyota Mods newsgroup
second in priority in your life only to God. (Ok, forget (4). Just so
long as it doesn't become second in priority to cleaning the lint out
from beneath your computer!)
So, if you want to accept the challenge, let me know. You will be
rewarded with the satisfaction of knowing that you helped make the
Toyota Mods group the greatest on the Internet!
Chris
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 14:34:01 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Hoppy 4TH of July (WOB)
Hoppy 4th of July all you modders...
Just wanted to say that to one and all... I know its mostly felt here online
but needed or wanted to say dat n e wayz....
For some Toyota related bubbling stuff (gada try)
Hmmmm.. a Carbon Fibre Race car body was seen in a top unnammed body maker for
cars.... in the shape of a Lexus SC400.....
Hmmmm... Due to distressing sales and tech help and some gripes... TRD USA
MIGHT close down... belive it or not... howebber TRD Japan is still gonna bere
be here for a long time..jus gada pay the price for longdistance... some of them
at TRD Japan speak english..and mostly just say i.e if you want parts for a
1987 Corolla GTS Rear wheel drive then its like ask for parts for a hachi-ji-roku which basically means an AE-86. An AE-92 is a 88 Front wheel drive GTS and a
AE-102 (or 103) is the supercharged front wheel drive corlla gts)
Hmmmm.... Some unanmed person in hawaii who recently bought a corlla gts for
a or traded for a tv set..later went on to sell such car and bought a 1982 supra
celica....he';s looking for a turbo truck actualy but can't find any he wants to
buy...unless he buys the 13 second turbo truck for 7,000 which he's seriously
thinking about but he don't like NOS vehicles...
Hmmmm..... A RELIABLE friend went back to japan for good =( HOWEVER he can
get ANY Toyota part for us...IF Someone can get in touch with him...time difference
is sorta the killer plus...he does contruction during the day and gets paid
something unbeliveable like $400 per day for "busting down things" ....
I belive das it... i'm on "lunch" playing "boss" at work... neat..i didn't know
we had modems at work =)
Hoppy 4th All ! Hoppy Boithday America ! =)
Go (TRD) USA ! ;P
-koji
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To: Clark Wallace
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4Runner mods/Dechroming
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 94 09:50:35 -0700
From: danapple@vicor.com
> Clark Wallace writes:
> Dan, The chrome must be removed completely to effectively paint the bumper.
> This will require a chemical strip by a chroming shop -> big $$$. Thus, its
> probably not a cost effective approach. Your options 1) or 3) would be best.
It sounds like the chrome is a stronger finish than paint, yes? If
so, I may just leave it on for that reason.
Saturday night I scraped bumpers with another truck with chrome
bumpers. Neither showed any sign of damage, although a lot of dirt
was removed from mine. (I wonder if dirt protects? Kidding!) I
suspect if the bumpers had been painted that the paint would have come
off.
Thanks for the advice, I'll nix the idea of dechroming the current
bumpers.
> Clark
Dan.
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Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 09:11:11 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: New Video Game
Just thought i'd share...
Played Ummm... some Sega Game... Nascar racing or something...
it has the MOST realistic feel of a car i've played so far...
at least its not unbearable... ha ha ha jus takes a little getting used to
ha ha ha ha ... tricky though...
if ya play the standard... they don't tell you ya don't have to shift
to start... ha ha ha ... its like they give you a 5 speed but the first
gear is auto hahahahah -boggle-
the first course is a circle track... 8 laps... pretty good... i got down to
6th place lowest time was a 16.83 or something... out of 30 cars or something..
second track kicked my ass badly...
the third was kinna long but it wasn';t too bad... that one was kinna easy infact...
the second one was the hardest cause i belive it had altituyde changes and stuff
like that..elevation changes so its harder to judge... ha ha ha
n e wayz...
hope ya had a hoppy 4th ya WOB'bers ! =)
-Koji
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From: Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com
Date: 5 Jul 94 13:17:42 -0700
To: toyota-mods#064#su102a.ess.harris.com%smtpgw@email3.sps.mot.com
Subject: Air flow meter mod
Hi all,
Even though this may not necessarily be a performance mod, it turned
out to be on my truck. I was having pinging problems with my 22RE,
even with 92 octane super unleaded. Tried all other recommendations,
then attacked the AFM. It took 4 notches on the gear/spring wheel to
get rid of the pinging using 87 octane unleaded.
Anyway, we did a trip into the mountains of northern Arizona to escape
the heat over the weekend. I was able to maintain 5-10mph faster on
some of the long 7% grades I usually struggle up, and could pull them
in 4th instead of dropping to third occasionally. Mileage doesn't seem
to have suffered too badly, so far, maybe 1mpg. It feels like I have
another 10hp or more now. I guess this may be part of why some engines
*feel* stronger than others, the electronic calibration is different
from the factory. I can report on its affect on emissions in August,
that's when I have to take it in for its inspection.
Anybody else have this happen after modding their AFM?
Jim
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From: John Red-Horse
Subject: About that 22RE Engine... (fwd)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 18:09:23 -0400 (ADT)
Howdy All,
Gary H. and I have been corresponding about the recent rebuild I had done
on my 22RE engine. He thought that this discussion raised some points
worthy of consideration (specifically with regard to the rpm ranges that I
quoted him) by the Toy-Mods group. So, here's a forward of my original
note to him.
cheers,
john
jrredho wrote:
> Subject: About that 22RE Engine...
> To: garyh@sco.com (Gary H)
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 13:34:39 -0400 (ADT)
>
> Hey Gary,
>
> I just thought that I'd drop you a note to update you on my engine
> rebuild. I probably told you the deal: I had a guy do the rebuild and
> everything was replaced (rod and main bearings, etc), the head was
> machined and the valves ground, and I had it bored .030 over with stock
> compression pistons. The only thing that I did to try to boost the power
> a bit was to go with a TRD (.420/.420) camshaft. I reused the rockers
> and springs.
>
> I got the entire thing done for $1500 (including that $200 camshaft --
> ouch!), but I'm *very* pleased. That price also included labor to pull and
> replace the engine. I liked the rebuilder (he was a bit of an
> anal-retentive, which was a definite point in his favor). He was quite
> willing to go with the different camshaft. In fact, he deleted the price
> of the camshaft that he normally used. He also gave me a 12
> month/12,000mile warranty on the engine (even though he never wrote my
> mileage down!).
>
> I now have about 1200 miles on the engine, and, once I sorted some things
> out (exhaust and ignition-related) the engine is quite responsive. I
> used to only rev my old one to about 3800 rpm, but now I don't even hit
> the torque band until about 3200 and I've revved it to 4600 so far. (The
> torque seems to max out ~4k.)
>
> I can now run my AC while going uphill (my house is at 7500ft and the
> city of Albuquerque is at 5000ft, or so, so I'm always climbing), and
> best of all: I don't have to carry a case of oil with me. (Did I mention
> that I was burning a quart every 75 miles?)
>
> I wish that I'd done this 3 or four years ago.
>
> cheers,
> john
>
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 08:40:24 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: About that 22RE Engine... (fwd)
FWIW, I max out the engine in that Celica race car of mine to around
6000 rpm. Keep in mind it is a 1978 20R engine, never rebuilt, about
130K miles. The only mods I've made WRT the engine:
-I use dual valve springs from a 2.4l Nissan engine
-I run my oil pressure at about 80 psi (too much...)
-I have an Accel Super Coil installed
-I run a dual 38mm synchronous carb
-The exhaust just free flows off of a stock 2 to 1 type 22R
manifold and through a ~7 foot piece of pipe (~1.5"?)
You may not want to do this with your daily driver, but I've been doing
it to this engine roughly two races a month for more than a year.
BTW, let me go ahead and report that we won again at the special race
they had on Sunday night!
Chris
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 07:01:00 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: WOB - Hawaii Stuff...
Eh LocalBoto...
Ya had what kinna rims ? I can't remeber if ya car is the gray ones with the
side skirts and the chrome rims or the gray one with the fitti's...
ya license plate Ege 747 ? Like in the airplane ? =) or soemthing... if so then
i saw ya bro yesterday at Longs Kaneohe...
Car looked WEALLY nice =) Was even washed also =) ha ha ha ha
-Koji
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Date: 06 Jul 94 14:07:19 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Air flow meter mod
>> Anybody else have this happen after modding their AFM?
I tweaked the one on my Corolla (4AGEC engine) two notches rich, which cured
the ping but didn't do much for power. I live at sea level, but a recent trip
to the mountains (10,000 feet) demonstrated that it was making less power at
altitude than before. I backed the AFM back a notch, which is still enough to
stop the dreaded ping, but lets it run a bit better at high altitude.
BTW, a few years ago, a smog shop drilled out part of the AFM to expose a
screw, which adjust the air-bypass valve, so they could lean it out a bit for
their test. Anyone know which way to turn that screw to richen the mixture?
Oh, OMBTW, does anyone here have what HKS calls an EGC?
Kevin <86 Corolla GTS>
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 14:41:04 EDT
From: "Kevin M. Bento"
To: TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Supra overheating...
Just a quick note to let the Supra owners out there of my recent experience
with overheating on my 1988 Supra Turbo.
In driving to work everyday, I pass over a few rather large mountains with
steep inclines. Well one day last week I was driving home singing along to
my favorite U2 song when my A/C turned itself off. I happened to be on a
very steep upward climb. The outside temperature was well over 90. I looked
at my water temp gauge and was shocked to see it all the way in the red!
Well, I immediately pulled over, turned the A/C off, turned on the heat full
blast and let it idle for a few minutes. The temp gauge dropped almost
immediately. I left and drove the rest of the way home without a problem.
On my way to work the next morning, the same thing happened on the same
hill (on the other side of it). But instead of pulling over (the needle
wasn't quite in the red) I just turned on my heat again (which sucks when
its 90 out!) Again the needle dropped.
Well, obviously I went out and bought a new thermostat from the local
NAPA. Wrong move! I should know by now...
In talking to a friend of mine that is a mechanic at the local Toyota
dealership, he told me the obvious: get a new thermostat. I showed him
the one I bought at NAPA and he almost keeled over with horror! Then
he showed me why. He went behind the counter at the Toyota Parts place
and showed me a factory Toyota thermostat. The difference was amazing.
It was much larger and much more sturdy looking. The temp range was
different (to the Supras specs). The NAPA one I had bought was not to
Supra specs. And the NAPA one didnt have a "nipple pin" which is imperative
to the operation of it. My friend told me he had a few Supras come in
with cracked heads and persistent overheating problems because of cheap
aftermarket thermostats. Needless to say, I bought the Toyota one and
havent had a problem yet (its been over a week)
Moral: Always stick with genuine Toyota parts or RELIABLE aftermarket
parts.
Also, does anyone know how the "fan clutch" works on the Supra? Its where
the large plastic fan attaches to. It turns freely when the engine is stopped
with a little bit of resistence. Is this normal? My mechanic friend told me
that this may also be a problem with cooling. He said he has heard of a
number of problems with this on the 22R engines...
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Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 14:53:13 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
> Also, does anyone know how the "fan clutch" works on the Supra? Its
where
> the large plastic fan attaches to. It turns freely when the engine is
stopped
> with a little bit of resistence. Is this normal? My mechanic friend
told me
> that this may also be a problem with cooling. He said he has heard of
a
> number of problems with this on the 22R engines...
I've never had a problem with the fan clutches on any of my 2xR's, but
that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If I am not mistaken, most fan
clutches are filled with a liquid. This liquid serves as a means to
turn the blades at a basically constant speed somewhere below the rpm
speed of the engine. I've seen these get locked up, and they sound like
a airplane prop when your rpm's go above 3000. Theoretically, you
should be able to grab your fan blade at speed and stop it. (Feeling
Lucky?) I do know that I have a buddy that just sticks a broom handle
in the fan before he starts the engine if he's going to be working
around the fan.
Many mechanics recommend replacing your fan clutch whenever you replace
your water pump, or vice-versa. The thinking is that when one goes, it
usually wears on the other, and that there's no sense running one new
and one worn. I've changed several water pumps in my 4x4, and haven't
noticed anything wrong with my (original) fan clutch.
Chris
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To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 94 15:38:21 -0700
From: danapple@vicor.com
> cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer) writes:
> I've never had a problem with the fan clutches on any of my 2xR's, but
> that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If I am not mistaken, most fan
> clutches are filled with a liquid. This liquid serves as a means to
> turn the blades at a basically constant speed somewhere below the rpm
> speed of the engine.
I believe it's also somewhat thermostatically controlled. That liquid
is a viscous coupling that only couples the fan when engine temp goes
above a certain point.
> I've seen these get locked up, and they sound like
> a airplane prop when your rpm's go above 3000.
On my 22RE powered (if you can call that power) 4Runner there's a
cyclic loud whirring noise. It usually stays on for about a minute,
then is off for a minute. When on, it is proportional to engine RPM.
This is with the A/C off. I figured it was the engine driven fan.
> Theoretically, you
> should be able to grab your fan blade at speed and stop it.
That's what they say about a drivewheel on a car with an open diff,
but I don't have the nerve to try it. Maybe with some kevlar
gloves...
> Chris
Dan.
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To: "Kevin M. Bento"
Cc: TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 94 15:44:29 -0700
From: danapple@vicor.com
> "Kevin M. Bento" writes:
> I looked
> at my water temp gauge and was shocked to see it all the way in the red!
Danger Will Robinson.
> Well, I immediately pulled over, turned the A/C off
Wrong order. Always turn the A/C off before decelerating on such a
hot day. In fact, as you learned later, turning the A/C off may be
sufficient. But let's say it's 110 F outside, you're cruising at
80mph, engine coolant temp is normal and the cabin temp is 70. (Supra
has good A/C). If you leave the A/C on and pull to a stop, say to
refuel, that's a great way to peg the coolant temp. Been there, done
exactly that.
> Also, does anyone know how the "fan clutch" works on theSupra? Its where
> the large plastic fan attaches to. It turns freely when the engine is stopped
> with a little bit of resistence. Is this normal?
Yes. On my Supra and 4Runner, it turns freely. On my girlfriend's
former '79 Camaro, it was a direct link.
> My mechanic friend told me
> that this may also be a problem with cooling. He said he has heard of a
> number of problems with this on the 22R engines...
Unlikely that that's the problem. At 90mph, the fan is moving a
negligle amount of air compared to the air passing over the radiator
due to the vehicle motion. If you have problems in stop-and-go
driving, worry about the fan. In my Supra, I've rigged a switch so I
can turn on the A/C condensor fan without the compressor on. I'm
hoping that'll aid in cooling when in slow traffic. (See, that's a
mod, and that's why this post is relevant to toyota-mods!)
Dan.
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To: TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: One-piece driveshaft
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 94 18:10:28 -0700
From: danapple@vicor.com
How much power would a one-piece driveshaft save? Does the
elimination of the double-cardan joint and center bearing eliminate a
noticeable amount of drag? What are the downsides?
Dan.
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 08:50:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John A. Eccles"
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
To: danapple@vicor.com
Cc: "Kevin M. Bento" , TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
I had aproblem 2 years ago where my 22RE Celica would overheat after about
15 minutes of driving. It would be Ok at first, but after about 7 minutes
the temperature would start creeping up and I would turn on the heater at
full blast to keep the temp of the engine down. I tried almost everything
to try and fix it:replace thermostat, hoses, fluid coupling on fan...
It was summertime, and driving around with the heater on really sucked.
Needless to say, my windows were down:)
Eventually, the only thing left to replace was the radiator. I checked
prices of new ones, and decided to have mine rebuilt.
I paid $50.00 and had mine rodded-out. The top and bottom of the core
are removed and a rod is pushed through to clear out all the crap.
you wouldn't believe the amount of debris that came out!
Anyways, after that was done, the rebuild tech took a torch and burned off
the bugs and leaves that were wedged in the fins.(Water has too much
pressure and bends the fins) Then the unit was reassembled and repainted.
When I got it back it looked like new and my overheating problem never
returned.....
.......
.......Just an idea, maybe this will help:)
REAPER
johne@alpha.acast.nova.edu
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 04:36:21 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Summit Racing...
Funny thing... i got my Summit Racing Catalog in the mail the other week...
Was wondering if we should add this into the magazine area...
good pricing on parts and all... i got most of my stuff from Summit...
-koji
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 04:59:16 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Summit Racing...
>From cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com Thu Jul 7 04:42:59 1994
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 10:42:53 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
Subject: Re: Summit Racing...
>> Funny thing... i got my Summit Racing Catalog in the mail the other week..
>> Was wondering if we should add this into the magazine area...
>> good pricing on parts and all... i got most of my stuff from Summit...
>Probably a good idea. I know I look in Summit any time I need something
>that isn't import specific. I think they consistently have good
>prices. My goal is to outprice Summit on everything for the IPS. FWIW,
>their Carrera stuff goes for about 6% above jobber cost. Of course,
>that leaves them plenty of profit, since the maximum discount for big
>Carrera distributors is jobber minus 25 or 30%.
Beer that ! =)
Things I bought from Summit:
Autolite Gagues: Tach with memory,2 fuel pressure gagues, fuel pressure
isolator and steel braided lines. All liquid filled.
Accel Supercoils
MSD 6-L with e-proms
Header wrap (*boggle*)
Think i got my Mallory shiftlight tach from them.
Hurst shifter
Mostly accessory stuff i got from them...
I forget..its too early in the morning =)
>Chris
-koji
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 05:01:07 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Miller cycle...
A Friend and I were talking about something Mazda has now..its called the
Miller cycle... anyone know anything more aboutit ? It basically deals
with the intake of the car and leaving the intake open on the compression
stroke so it pushes some gases back into the intake... cooler or something...
anyone got any ideers ? I sorta was VERY tired when he was bubbling this...
-Koji
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 05:14:06 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle This)
I plighted to this fourm many moons ago about my header problem.
It seems i kept on cracking or breaking header bolts on my exhaust
manifold. I tried Grade 8 bolts, titanium bolts, bigger bolts, studs and
screws... all cracked down the middle... The only thing that did work... was
stock bolts from Toyota... ha ha ha .. and they lasted about 6 months then i
would get an exhaust leak again and have to easy it out.. and change doug
thorley gaskets again.. and again...
I found out a possible solution from some "Exhaust experts"...
their analysis was... My "engine puts out too much power for the exhaust to
handle properly. go to a bigger and more freeflowing exhaust"
then I told them "My motor is stock though. It has stock parts and has no
reason to do this. The only thing NOT "stock" about my engine is that it has
a custom crank thats also built to toyota specs..." they said..."Duh"
and said... "Go with a bigger exhaust"
Welps... HKS will make an exhaust kit for my car if i get 100 of my friends
to order one...their mufflers don't work on my car either...
My exhaust is a 2 inch pipe all the way back with 2 "glasspack" mufflers
it goes from my 2 inch headers into a "stock" tri y exhaust where it
connects to a 2 inch inlet glasspack with a 2 1/4 inch outlet into a 2 1/4 pipe
running to the back with a 2 1/4 inlet with a 2 1/2 outlet glasspack into the
short pipe (under my rear end) and out through a chome tip =) no Monza or Ansa
exhaust tips please... they sound neat but get irkitating after a while...
My exhaust is a lot quiter then the HKS even under full power... and i'd hate
to go bigger but i guess i have to... 3 inch for a "Stock" configurated
motor is pushing it...but thats what i've been told... any ideeers ? =)
-Koji
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 05:34:17 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Headers
Can't Find Doug Thorley headers in my catalogue..but i have it somewhere..
n e wayz... ha ha ha i don't have doug thorley headers... look inside ya
TRD catalogue and ya see a picture of some green headers for a 2tg or something
like that... sorry tis the 18rg headers... das what mines look like ha ha
i'll get the header info... and also got S&S headers,Headman Hookers, ummm
check ya mail... ya should be getting mail from me soon...
ha ha snail mail that is... ha ha its not what ya wanted but its a lot
of info...some might be useful chris =)
-me
gonna take anap for a while...
wabe..
-Koji
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From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle This)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:41:03 -0400 (ADT)
tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
>
> I plighted to this fourm many moons ago about my header problem.
> It seems i kept on cracking or breaking header bolts on my exhaust
> manifold. I tried Grade 8 bolts, titanium bolts, bigger bolts, studs and
> screws... all cracked down the middle... The only thing that did work... was
> stock bolts from Toyota... ha ha ha .. and they lasted about 6 months then i
> would get an exhaust leak again and have to easy it out.. and change doug
> thorley gaskets again.. and again...
>
> I found out a possible solution from some "Exhaust experts"...
> their analysis was... My "engine puts out too much power for the exhaust to
> handle properly. go to a bigger and more freeflowing exhaust"
>
> then I told them "My motor is stock though. It has stock parts and has no
> reason to do this. The only thing NOT "stock" about my engine is that it has
> a custom crank thats also built to toyota specs..." they said..."Duh"
> and said... "Go with a bigger exhaust"
>
Koji,
I'm not an exhaust expert, but a more freeflowing exhaust is not going to
fix the problem if it's not the cause in the first place---it kind of
smacks of ``parts replacement'' mode.
Some thoughts (for what they're worth): Is your header supported in a way
that is similar to the support on the stock flange? If not, it may be
preloading your header/manifold connection. You might try loosening all
of the other exhaust supports before tightening up the manifold.
Another consideration might be the possiblility of inappropriate thermal
expansion of the header... Can your supplier put you in touch with other
owners of that header? Maybe others are experiencing the same problems.
cheers,
john
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 06:55:24 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle this)
[H
>From jrredho@universe.digex.net Thu Jul 7 05:41:15 1994
From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle This)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:41:03 -0400 (ADT)
>Koji,
>I'm not an exhaust expert, but a more freeflowing exhaust is not going to
>fix the problem if it's not the cause in the first place---it kind of
>smacks of ``parts replacement'' mode.
Welps thats what these guys told me so.. ha ha ha i'm boggling this info
myself... jus wanted to blounce some thoughts around =)
>Some thoughts (for what they're worth): Is your header supported in a way
>that is similar to the support on the stock flange?
Yes... it uses the stock location bolts and it is a "Stock replacement" with
toyota part numbers on it. Check the TRD Catalogue with the 18RG header.
That what it looks like...although mines isn't green =)
>If not, it may be preloading your header/manifold connection.
Woah big word...
>You might try loosening all of the other exhaust supports before tightening
>up the manifold.
Good thought and theory.. glad ya mentioned that. However, I did try that..
i even tried using rubber grommets and donuts along my exhaust to soften the
travel of the exhaust. Thanks for the thought =) Its a good one =)
>Another consideration might be the possiblility of inappropriate thermal
>expansion of the header...
Ummm... "innapropriate thermal expansion of the header" eh ? Ha ha ha ...
basically this means not enough flow outwards into the exhaust ?
I recently expanded the pipes and changed them to bigger ones infact..
rewelded part of the header for more flow... cause i thought this was the
problem... it helped HP wise... although not bolt wise (*shrug*)
also a good thought =)
>Can your supplier put you in touch with other owners of that header?
I'm in touch with 10 owners that have this header on their T series motors.
However... out of the 10 other owners... mines is the only street driven
car there is... (*mgrin*)
>Maybe others are experiencing the same problems.
Ha ha ha ... the best quote i got from a guy in cali was that "Heck, who
needs and exhaust ? Run it uncapped or put one of those SuperTrap things on
makes a heck of alot of noise but what the hell. Either that or run those
side pipes from the header manifold, splitting them into two pipes on each
side of the car comming out near the rear end. You can get the chrome ones
cheap and then paint flames on your car. I would if i had this problem" =)
Ha ha ha .. the car's already BRIGHT RED... if Botoboy can remeber what it
looks like..it glows during the day..... any suggestion on flame strip colors ?
(*mgrin*)
>cheers,
Mahalos !
>john
-koji
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From: derek_deeter@rainbow.mentorg.com (Derek Deeter)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 10:20:41 PDT
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle this)
>>I'm not an exhaust expert, but a more freeflowing exhaust is not going to
>>fix the problem if it's not the cause in the first place---it kind of
I agree -
>>Some thoughts (for what they're worth): Is your header supported in a way
>>that is similar to the support on the stock flange?
>
>Yes... it uses the stock location bolts and it is a "Stock replacement" with
>toyota part numbers on it. Check the TRD Catalogue with the 18RG header.
>That what it looks like...although mines isn't green =)
Do you have an extra bracket to brace the bottom part of the header? Since
the header is longer it has more leverage, so maybe a brace from the
header collector to the engine/trannie would help.
Another thought just occurred - how are your motor mounts? Maybe one
is loose/broken and the engine is bashing those headers against the chassis?
Good luck,
derek
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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 11:23:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Header Bolt Problem Solved (Boggle This)
Koji,
When you say the bolts cracked down the middle, do you mean that they sheared
across the diameter of the shank? If you've got a Doug Thorley header then
your flange is that 3/8 thick rough cut jobber, right? After inspecting mine,
I determined that washers were mandatory inorder to properly secure it to the
head. It didn't appear that the contact area under the bolt holes was
sufficient (since the holes were cut with a torch rather than a drill) to
adequately secure the header without them. If the bolts are shearing flush
across the shank, then the lateral thermal expansion (I'm a mechanical engineer,
so I can use this term :/) of that 3/8 flange may be sufficient to shear
off a bolt (or stud). With washers in place you might be able to
adequately restrict any growth in the flange and load *all* the bolts this way:
_____ _____
->|_____| instead of this way |_____| for the ones that are shearing.
| | ->| |
This assumes that one or two of the bolts may be receiving the full load due
to any lateral growth of the flange and that (as a result) the inner surface
of the bolt hole contacts the bolt shank. BTW, the holes are so sloppy (at
least on my DT header) that this could easily be the case. Try adding a washer
under the head of each bolt.
If all your bolts are breaking or are not shearing across the shank, please
ignore the above (also ignore if your already using washers).
It does sound as if the remainder of your exhaust system is soft mounted so that
any expansion or loads it may generate will not be concentrated at the header
mounting points. However, if the mounts are too soft, then I suppose the entire
system could be cantilevered off the header which could cause problems,
especially when the car is in motion. Does your header (or exhaust system)
provide for an additional *hard* mounting point somewhere downstream, for
example, a flange that mounts to the back of the block?? If so, that would
take care of any major loads coming from further downstream.
Anyway, just some thoughts . . .
Clark
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From: Gary H
To: danapple@vicor.com, kbento@VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
Cc: TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 13:37:25 PDT
>> Well, I immediately pulled over, turned the A/C off
>
>Wrong order. Always turn the A/C off before decelerating on such a
>hot day. In fact, as you learned later, turning the A/C off may be
>sufficient. But let's say it's 110 F outside, you're cruising at
>80mph, engine coolant temp is normal and the cabin temp is 70. (Supra
>has good A/C). If you leave the A/C on and pull to a stop, say to
>refuel, that's a great way to peg the coolant temp. Been there, done
>exactly that.
When I was driving to Mammoth Lakes (with our mod'er Mr. Lung), we stopped
off at Wendy's for a bite to eat. It was HOT so I had the AC on. After
we finished eating, I started the engine and took off. As I was going up
an incline, my needle was entering the red. Turned off my AC and it dropped
a bit. I CB'ed to Aaron and asked him where his needle was - just below
the half mark and he has the AC on! My car is an 82 and his is an 84 so he
must have a slightly (if at all) better cooling system than I do. I haven't
change the coolant in a while either. Anyways, what I wanted to add is that
if you are driving in HOT weather 90F+ and have the AC on and you decide to
stop, turn off your AC first, then let the car idle for a minute or two
before turning it off because when you turn off your engine, your temp will
go up a bit because the coolant won't be moving through the engine to take
away the heat.
Gary
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 22:16:26 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: WOB - Hawaii Stuff...
On Jul 6, 7:01am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: WOB - Hawaii Stuff...
>
> Eh LocalBoto...
Wot u like Koji_boy. Hmmm, sounds like a cheezy line from "North
Shore" the movie... Eh, Haole boy... no mess with local girl" *heheheheheheh*.
> Ya had what kinna rims ?
Cheap non_hub-centric Elites Fittipaldi wannabe stars (Don't buy it,
it's not worth it... invest alittle more in quality). Why...
> I can't remeber if ya car is the gray ones with the
> side skirts and the chrome rims or the gray one with the fitti's...
It's da gray one with da side skirts with da chrome fitti wannabes
rims, I tink da odda wun is da buk buk u were talking about.
> ya license plate Ege 747 ? Like in the airplane ? =) or soemthing...
Well, It flies around corners like a F-16 *grin*.
> if so then i saw ya bro yesterday at Longs Kaneohe...
That must be heeem.
> Car looked WEALLY nice =) Was even washed also =) ha ha ha ha
Ask him about the wax job and if it feels good or not... Garyh wants to
know *hahahahaha* jus kidding Gary.
I notice that he has been checking out alot of chicks lately. He went
and let his girlfriend, Julie, drive the GT-S one night and they were passed by
this white Acura Integra. As soon as the as the Integra passed and cut her
off... she noticed that it was another girl driver (Integra). She exclaimed,
"bitch!!!" and started racing the Integra down the Pali Highway. Neither one
of them backed off at all and kept the pace going. Finally my little bro
yelled, "what u doing!!! It's not your car!!!". Cheryl then apologized and
ended the chase. The moral of this story... beware of the cattiness in wimmin
*hahahahah*.
Thanks for keeping an eye on it... the check is in the mail *heheheh*.
Here is an update regarding the little GT-S. I was planning to ship the car
up here so I thought it would be fair to offered a down payment for a brand new
truck my baby bro been wanting... and he declined siting that he would prefer
to buy the Corolla off of me instead... "Doooooohhhh". He kept on giving me
hints regarding the ownership of the car and still continues to ask me to fix
things on the car *hahahaha*. What do you think... I being a older brother
still wants him to stay away from the work thing and concentrate on school (he
is doing pretty well by the way), to keep him away from being caught up in the
money thing. And... "I want my car back"!!! *sob*, *sniff*, *whimper*... jus
kidding :^). I been looking at the possibilty of a beater car (that being my
gray Corolla) for my everyday transportation. Oh Whelps, dats dem breaks.
Maybe I should tell him that when he saves up enough money to buy a new car...
he better ship it back to me *grin*.
Latas,
Allan
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 22:21:52 -0700
To: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>,
Subject: Re: Air flow meter mod
On Jul 6, 2:07pm, Kevin W. Smith wrote:
> Subject: Air flow meter mod
> BTW, a few years ago, a smog shop drilled out part of the AFM to expose a
> screw, which adjust the air-bypass valve, so they could lean it out a bit for
> their test. Anyone know which way to turn that screw to richen the mixture?
Hmmm, I believe it would be similar to adjusting mixtures on a carb so
I think it would CCW to lean and CW to richen. If not play around with it to
determine the mixture by systematically turning the screw in one direction
until it runs a little rough. That I believe is the direction of the lean
mixture.
> Oh, OMBTW, does anyone here have what HKS calls an EGC?
Nope, never heard of it... Koji, any clues?
Latas,
Botoboy
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 22:34:55 -0700
To: "Kevin M. Bento" , TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Supra overheating...
On Jul 6, 2:41pm, Kevin M. Bento wrote:
> Subject: Supra overheating...
> Moral: Always stick with genuine Toyota parts or RELIABLE aftermarket
> parts.
It could never be more true... as much as I hate to rely on OEM parts
*grin* but that's from my GM/Camaro days.
> Also, does anyone know how the "fan clutch" works on the Supra?
It's a vicous clutch, it requires movement of fluids to actuate/engage
it. It's not as efficient as a non_clutch fan (or I would want it to be) but I
believe it was designed for safety reasons... people losing fingers, limbs,
things of that sort.
> My mechanic friend told me that this may also be a problem with cooling. He
> said he has heard of a number of problems with this on the 22R engines...
Hmmm, I used to have alot of over-heating problems with my '69 Camaro
(running large cams .560/.580" 308 duration) and decided to swap it out with a
flex fan. It dramatically reduced the engine temp with the same size radiator
and fan shroud (alway keep your fan shroud, there is a purpose to it... it acts
like a velocity stack for your fan and moves and directs air faster behind your
radiator). You should be able to get a flex fan from any of you hotrod
outlets. Just remember to measure your fan diameter before going shopping. A
word of caution... the edges are sharp so be careful on the installation.
> It turns freely when the engine is stopped with a little bit of resistence.
Is > this normal?
Yes, quite normal... it's done for safety reasons I believe.
Latas,
Botoboy
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 23:27:12 -0700
To: danapple@vicor.com, TOYOTA-MODS@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: One-piece driveshaft
On Jul 6, 6:10pm, danapple@vicor.com wrote:
> Subject: One-piece driveshaft
>
> How much power would a one-piece driveshaft save?
I am not certain of the percentage, the less bearings/length (torsional
flex) the less horsepower lost. Common practice in drag racing applications is
to reduce/eliminate the use of the driveshaft to reduce horsepower loss to the
rear wheel... but then again that is horsepower extreme.
> Does the elimination of the double-cardan joint and center bearing eliminate
a
> noticeable amount of drag?
Primarily drivetrain play/slack that is usually associated with the DC
joint will be reduced. You would probably get a little better response with
your driveline and possible better power delivery.
> What are the downsides?
I do not really see any down sides with the possible exception of
ground clearance. Since it is a multi_link rear suspension we are dealing with
most late model Toyotas I do not believe we would encounter lift like a BMW
shaftdriven motorcycle. Inputs anyone...
Latas,
Botoboy
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 00:14:39 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: New Video Game
> Played Ummm... some Sega Game... Nascar racing or something...
Geeez, seems like Sega has been cranking out some really good games.
All of the stuff is based on line graphics (best stuff for response time).
First it was Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter (I really enjoyed this one alot
more than Street Fighter anyday), and now this... I haven't been by a game
center until recently (since SGI has a Street Fighter II machine in the break
area) and had a blast with Virtua Fighter. Give me a NASCAR anyday over a
simulator Ahhhh, nothing like the real thing to replace virtual reality.
Latas,
Botoboy
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 06:25:12 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Air Flow Meter Mod
>From allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Thu Jul 7 19:24:02 1994
From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 22:21:52 -0700
To: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>,
Subject: Re: Air flow meter mod
>>On Jul 6, 2:07pm, Kevin W. Smith wrote:
>> Subject: Air flow meter mod
>> BTW, a few years ago, a smog shop drilled out part of the AFM to expose a
>> screw, which adjust the air-bypass valve, so they could lean it out a bit for
>> their test. Anyone know which way to turn that screw to richen the mixture?
> Hmmm, I believe it would be similar to adjusting mixtures on a carb so
>I think it would CCW to lean and CW to richen. If not play around with it to
>determine the mixture by systematically turning the screw in one direction
>until it runs a little rough. That I believe is the direction of the lean
>mixture.
I was gonna comment on something..i think its right to richen and left to
lean ? Or was it Right if ya running rich and left if ya running lean ?
Ha ha ha too dang early !
>> Oh, OMBTW, does anyone here have what HKS calls an EGC?
> Nope, never heard of it... Koji, any clues?
(*sigh*) I'll give ya the book definition from HKS and then what experience
I've had... I'm not the best person to answer this thats why...
EGC - Electronic Govenor Control
The EGC is an ignition management system designed to control all aspects
and functions of a 3, 4 or 6 cylinder engine igniton system all from the
drivers seat. The EGC allows alteration of timing curves to afford maximum
advance in all ranges of operation, as well as appropriate amounts of
ignition retard to control detonation in aftermarket turbo system
installations.
The EGC incorporates 5 recessed control knobs and a series of LED's
signaling the operation of different modes of the EGC ignition management
system. Functions of the EGC include Initial Advance, which allows
cockpit control of up to a 15 degree advance or 5 degree retard of the
intital timing set at the distributor. The EGC's Govenor begins to operate
at 2000 RPM and advances the timing on a steady and straight curve,
dependant upon the setting specified by the operator, until that setting is
reached at 6000RPM. The Govenor can be set to advance timing from 0 to
20 degrees. For additional adjustment of the timing dependent upon specific
RPM points, the HKS GCC I can be used, as described below (that i gonna have
to type later hahahah) Vacuum advance allows up to a 20 degree advance
to be reached starting at 0" hg and reaching maximum advance at 12 in hg.
A Boost Retard function allows ignition timing to retarded relative to
boost pressure. Ignition is retarded starting at 5.8 psi and reaches maximum
retard by almost 21.4 psi, dependent upon adjustment of the "clipping
point". Adjusting the clippping point to its minimum will result in
maximum retard at 12 psi. The ignition can be retarded up to 20 degrees.
An ignition amplifer with some of the features of the Twin Power is
built into the EGC, but for maximum benefit, both the EGC and the Twin Power
should be used together. The EGC comes complete with all necessary
installation hardware for installation on most single coil systems.
Basically... its a good thing to have if ya gonna be like road racing
and such. Its a safety device and all. Basically if ya already have a
potentiometer hooked up for your EFI system this sorta lean-richens your
timing although this is yet something else to play with and get it
wrong... Running lean on your car will make it run faster... if the
fuel is there then nothing will be wrong or will happen to your motor =)
>Latas,
>Botoboy
Also on altering your Air Flow Meter... BE CAREFUL !!!! This unit can cost up
to some $400 to $800 in some areas ! =) And ya car CANNOT run without it !
Also by carefully inserting a screw driver into the "front" of the box where i its "squared" then in the middle of that jus insert and break the seal and pry
upwards and the rest will give and it comes off cleanly...so no one else can
notice what ya did or see the marks of aftermarket silicon to reseal it. also
be sure to use a good screw driver and not strip that screw !!!!!!!!!!
Aloha ! Was supposed to go into work late this morning...though not this
LATE !!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
have a good weekend all =)
-Koji
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 9:28:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Hoppy 4TH of July (WOB)
Koji wrote:
>Hmmmm... Due to distressing sales and tech help and some gripes... TRD USA
>MIGHT close down... belive it or not...
Ummm, do I detect the possibility of upcoming stock clearance sale aka Lou
Fuz style??!!?? And TRD is just about a mile up the street from me too :)
>Go (TRD) USA ! ;P
Or should we say "Go outta business (TRD) USA !"
Clark
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 13:12:07 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: intake valves stuck open?
Cc: msink@gateway.bsis.com
My 4AGE '87 MR2 is sick.
It's running rough, If I pull the plug wires off of the #1 or #4
cylinder, it dies. If I pull 2 and or 3, there is no difference
in how the engine runs, as if they weren't doing anything in the
first place. The car is hard, or won't start, just turns over.
This makes sense if both 2 and 3 are out. Also, I can't remember
my T-VIS intake manifold getting hot. It was VERY hot. Is it
possible for the fuel and air to be pushed back with open intake valves
and ignited, causing the intake manifold to get hot?
The only thing that doesn't make sense, is that it's gotten worse.
My car sat basically idle for 2 months waiting on a clutch from the
ToyStore, and it's not even CLOSE to what I ordered. DON'T EVER GET
A CUSTOM CLUTCH, OR MAYBE CUSTOME ANYTHING FROM THEM. IT WAS A
NIGHTMARE. Anyway, when it came time to take it to the shop to have
the clutch put in, I had to roll start it, attempted a few times actually
and blue smoke came out, didn't see how much, eyewitness said quite a bit.
But it seemed to run fine. Then going down the road, the ENG. WAR. light
came on, and it died. Sounded like a VERY open intake noise. As if I pulled
the tubing off of the T-VIS.
I asked them to replace O2 sensor, but they didn't have one at the time,
and said it checked out OK anyway. When I started it up to take it home,
I could tell immediately something wasn't right. Very slugish response,
and louder than normal intake noise, throughty souding. But very driveable,
only seemed a little down on power. When I got home, I attempted a restart,
and it just kept turning over, no start. I changed the plugs, and let it
cool off about 30 min. It started, and was now very bad! Idle at 400 rpm,
rough, very sick. So I started pulling plug wires and to see if I was running
on 2 or 3 cylinders. 2 and 3 aren't doing anything.
So, it went from seemingly normal as I started my trip to the shop, to dying
on me, then a little low taking it back home, to very bad the way it is now.
That's what doesn't sound like stuck valves. Any Clue?
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 10:39:41 PDT
From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
i don't think your intake valve stuck open unless you have broken
hardware(valve,vave springs, cam etc..)
Are you getting spark at the 2 and 3 wires? check for intake vacumm leaks.
Louis
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 13:47:46 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
----- Begin Included Message -----
>From do@etdesg.trw.com Fri Jul 8 13:42:22 1994
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 10:39:41 PDT
From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
Content-Length: 191
i don't think your intake valve stuck open unless you have broken
hardware(valve,vave springs, cam etc..)
Are you getting spark at the 2 and 3 wires? check for intake vacumm leaks.
Louis
----- End Included Message -----
Well, the pistons have valve relief pockets that prevent damage,
so it's possible they aren't broken.
I do get spark from 2 and 3.
Checking for intake vacuum leaks would involve what exactly? I tightened
and checked everything from the filter up to the T-VIS butterfly. BTW
T-VIS is the Toyota-Variable Induction System on the 4AGE. (Intake Plenum?
throttle body?) It's HOT! You 4AGE people tell me if yours gets hot. I think
mine had always been cool.
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 11:11:44 PDT
From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
> i don't think your intake valves are stuck open unless you have broken
> hardware(valve,vave springs, cam etc..)
>
> Are you getting spark at the 2 and 3 wires? check for intake vacumm leaks.
>
> Louis
>
> ----- End Included Message -----
>
> Well, the pistons have valve relief pockets that prevent damage,
> so it's possible they aren't broken.
>
> I do get spark from 2 and 3.
> Checking for intake vacuum leaks would involve what exactly? I tightened
> and checked everything from the filter up to the T-VIS butterfly. BTW
> T-VIS is the Toyota-Variable Induction System on the 4AGE. (Intake Plenum?
> throttle body?) It's HOT! You 4AGE people tell me if yours gets hot. I think
> mine had always been cool.
>
All intake manifolds get hot while engine is running.
Did those guys pull the tranny or engine to do the clutch? I'll bet cha they
didn't connect everything back correctly. you also mentioned that there is a
intake sucking sound so sounds like you have an intake leak.
Louis
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 14:34:14 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
Does this sound like a timing problem to anyone else? Like a slipping
timing belt?
Chris
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 12:06:24 PDT
From: do@etdesg.trw.com (Louis Do)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
>
> Does this sound like a timing problem to anyone else? Like a slipping
> timing belt?
>
> Chris
>
Timing could be the problem but he said that there is an intake sucking noise
so I went for the obvious suggestion of intake vacumm leak. Come to think of it,
a slipping belt would mess up valve timing causing the engine to misfire(intake
valve open on exhaust stroke etc...).
Hey Mark, give more info.
Louis
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 15:10:29 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
If it is a timing problem, do this: get it running again and put your
timing light on it (you do have a timing light, don't you?). Even if
you can't get it running, put a good strong battery on it and turn it
over. You may need to pull the plugs out and ground them to get the
engine to turn over fast enough to get good readings. If the light is
flashing and you don't see the timing mark, or if the timing mark is WAY
off, I'd be suspicious of the timing belt. Try to dial it in with the
distributor (assuming you have one. A lot of newer cars don't have
distributors _or_ timing marks!) If your timing is sorta close, and the
engine won't start, you may be able to tweak your distributor until it
will start.
If it is a timing problem, it is either your timing belt is off or your
distributor is off (installed incorrectly or slipped.) And it won't
necessarily backfire to give you this info. If you have a intake valve
partially open as the piston is coming up, you'll definitely get a very
hot intake.
Chris
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From: "Isaac A. Stoddard"
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
To: Mark Sink - Gateway Production
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 15:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
" Mark Sink - Gateway Production writes --"
>
> My 4AGE '87 MR2 is sick.
>
> It's running rough, If I pull the plug wires off of the #1 or #4
> cylinder, it dies. If I pull 2 and or 3, there is no difference
[...]
>
> So, it went from seemingly normal as I started my trip to the shop, to dying
> on me, then a little low taking it back home, to very bad the way it is now.
> That's what doesn't sound like stuck valves. Any Clue?
>
Worn valve guides?
OY. When the going gets weird, the going gets VERY
synchronicious. ;-> I am having the SAME sort of problem with my
wife's MITSU COLT VISTA 88 2.0l OHC (the G63B), ever since they did a
head job, eighteen months ago.
First, there was a hissing "chuffing" leak at the intake manifold
gasket. They fixed that. Now it seems like something is
dropped/worn. The #4 cyl sparkplug oils up after 300mi, and
hesitation gets awful. Dry compression is OK, and wet compression
doesn't change from dry. WHAT CONDITION are your #2 and #3 plugs in,
now? And how is your cap/rotor cleanliness? Is the air filter really
clean? I mention these because I renewed them and got a significant
change in the car's behavior. ;-> Ran fine (or at least so improved
that I thought it was fine) for a whole week of around-town chores.
I'm going to try and pull the cam tower cover off and peek at the
valve guides. I *think* the mechanical timing is OK, but I still need
to double check that, too. I'm still trying to work without Factory
Manuals. ;-( Please keep us posted on your progress.
Ah, shadetree mechanic-ing. Reminds me of the Pat Benatar lyric,
"It's all so confusing, this brutal abusing,..."
Ike
Stoddard@draper.com
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 16:06:07 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
All my plugs are oily, but I think it's from leaking casting plugs,
and leaking down into them, not from by passing the rings. There's
oil around the top of the head area where the plugs are screwed in.
I have casting plugs, that leaked before, and may be leaking again.
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 13:41:43 PDT
From: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
I would suggest to check compression first, then timing. If you don't have
a timing light you can look through #1 spark plug hole. Just remember there
are two TDCs for #1 piston.
If everything is ok check all the connections. Maybe some connection is
not good after they changed your clutch. As how they changed your clutch.
You can tell if the valve is open or not easily by a compression test.
you can also tell a leaking valve guild (right name ?) by a "wet compression" test.
Could it be timing completely wrong, (by 360 degrees)?
Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874
edwang@up171.lsil.com
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From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: intake valves stuck open?
To: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837)
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 17:31:48 -0400 (ADT)
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Ed Wang - 7837 wrote:
>
> I would suggest to check compression first, then timing. If you don't have
> a timing light you can look through #1 spark plug hole. Just remember there
> are two TDCs for #1 piston.
Good suggestion.
>
> You can tell if the valve is open or not easily by a compression test.
> you can also tell a leaking valve guild (right name ?) by a "wet compression" test.
>
You can also do a less specific test by doing a vacuum check. You can
definitely tell if you've dropped a valve, and if you've got worn valve
guides. You will not be able to narrow it down to which one it is though.
cheers,
john
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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 18:50:28 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Outta here for a week!
I've got to do another week of National Guard duty, so I'll be back a
week from Monday. Hope things will wait until then. As usual, if my
machine goes bonkers and starts mailing core files by the hundreds to
each users, someone contact:
tvu@su102d.ess.harris.com
and let him know.
See ya!
Chris
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Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 11:12:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: SuperTrapp
To: MR2 Interest Mailing List
Cc: Toyota Mods Mailing List
I'm definitely a happy guy!
I just got my SuperTrapp installed on my '86 MR2 (straight pipe--no cat'),
and I LOVE it! I recommend this muffler to anyone.
I also got a deal from the Toy Shop (not the Cali' Toy Shop, the Calgary
one)... Can$150 for the chrome 'Trapp+tip and Can$50 for install.
I do have a question though.....
Ever since my stock muffler developed a fist-sized hole, my car
backfires. Now, with the 'Trapp, it backfires even more!
Is this a timing issue? (I'm running 91 octane, BTW)
What is causing this, and how can I remedy the prob' (if there IS a prob')?
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: Sat, 9 Jul 1994 12:56:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Lorne Richard Silkes
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
To: Darin Ray Hamilton
Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List ,
I believe is due to the lack of back pressure. But I don't know the
consequences.
Lorne
On Sat, 9 Jul 1994, Darin Ray Hamilton wrote:
>
> I'm definitely a happy guy!
> I just got my SuperTrapp installed on my '86 MR2 (straight pipe--no cat'),
> and I LOVE it! I recommend this muffler to anyone.
> I also got a deal from the Toy Shop (not the Cali' Toy Shop, the Calgary
> one)... Can$150 for the chrome 'Trapp+tip and Can$50 for install.
>
> I do have a question though.....
> Ever since my stock muffler developed a fist-sized hole, my car
> backfires. Now, with the 'Trapp, it backfires even more!
> Is this a timing issue? (I'm running 91 octane, BTW)
> What is causing this, and how can I remedy the prob' (if there IS a prob')?
>
> (. )(. )
> ------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
> Darin Ray Hamilton
> Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
> e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
>
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From: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca (Darin Ray Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 10:42:50 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota Mods ML)
> I do have a question though.....
> Ever since my stock muffler developed a fist-sized hole, my car
> backfires. Now, with the 'Trapp, it backfires even more!
> Is this a timing issue? (I'm running 91 octane, BTW)
> What is causing this, and how can I remedy the prob' (if there IS a prob')?
When is it backfiring? At idle, or when you let up on the throttle?
The HKS exhaust on my Supra backfires (mildly) when I let off the throttle,
which is kind of cool :), but no longer backfires at idle. I didn't like
having the car stumbling and popping when sitting at a light. Of course in
my case that was because the plugs I had put in weren't up to Toyota spec...
what I'm getting at is let-off-throttle-backfire is probably ok, idle-
backfire is annoying, even if it may not be bad for the engine...
Aaron B.
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Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 09:44:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
To: abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu
Cc: Toyota Mods ML
On Sun, 10 Jul 1994 abuhr@raptor.eng.ufl.edu wrote:
> When is it backfiring? At idle, or when you let up on the throttle?
> The HKS exhaust on my Supra backfires (mildly) when I let off the throttle,
> which is kind of cool :), but no longer backfires at idle. I didn't like
> having the car stumbling and popping when sitting at a light. Of course in
> my case that was because the plugs I had put in weren't up to Toyota spec...
> what I'm getting at is let-off-throttle-backfire is probably ok, idle-
> backfire is annoying, even if it may not be bad for the engine...
It's "let-off-the-throttle"-backfiring..... and fairly loud at that!
Idle's fine though.
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 17:30:06 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Fredo's Yabba Dabba Do Query
>From Fred_Oberbuchner@MBnet.MB.CA Tue Jun 21 06:20:48 1994
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 11:31:09 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
Subject: RE: Fred`s Yabba Dabba D
tk>There was a guy selling 15 x 7 Borbet Type C's with AVS Intermediate ti
tk>misc forsale a while back... $600 with shipping...
>Would anyone still have this ad? (and could maybe email it to me?)
I belive its gone... i checked for it..sorry...
tk>Woo woo ! =) Manarays are neat =)
Huh? vot iz diz "Manaray"?
Manaray is a type of rim that tire rack has. They provide decent rims and
good sizes for toyotas.
>fredo
-Koji
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Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 17:38:56 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie ! (Late Reply)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 08:35:53 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
>Well, here's another new member. Kevin looks like he has big plans for
>his Corolla, so let's toss in some ideas.
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 08:35:53 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
>Well, here's another new member. Kevin looks like he has big plans for
>his Corolla, so let's toss in some ideas.
>Kevin: Welcome aboard!
Greetings User !
>>>>>Kevin Smith<<<<<
>My name's Kevin Smith, from Los Angeles, CA.
Oh Oh ! Not another damm Cali person ! =)
>I have an 86 Corolla GTS hatchback that is both my daily driver, and a
>car I wish to improve. Some of the things I've done are:
Notice: Its a hatchback.... =)
>Modifications:
>Tokico springs
How many grams =)
>Tokico shocks
Adjustable ? =) Illumina's ? =)
>TRD negative roll blocks (strut-spindle spacers)
Wow !!!
>15x7 wheels with 195/50 Dunlop D40 M2 tires
Woo woo.. check them tires. What kinna rims ?
>GAB strut tower brace
Finally... sum bunny with a GAB ! =)
>Airflow mixture preset change
Potentiometer ?
>Accessories:
>Momo Montecarlo steering wheel
Nice one ! I liked the Fitti F3 though =(
>Custom-fitted BMHA floor mats
Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories Floor Mats =) Nice Logos =)
>What I plan to do in the future, in order:
>Steel camber plates and TRD hard bushings
The camber plates are good. The hard bushing are which ones ? Not the poly ?
>Volk Racing 15x7 or 14x6 wheels
Go Volk ! =)
>Some kind of performance muffler
No exhaust system or a custom one ?
>Thorley Header
Be sure to plug in that stupid emissions sensor before you bolt it back up
its a pain to put in otherwise...
>4mm overbore of throttle body
Thats something we nebber discussed... VERY smart... opening the throttle
body...no matter how "open" you air comming in or ya air box or lack of
its the throttle body opening that determines it all...
>HKS cams and adjustable sprockets
Get the ones with the allen screws... its worth the extra effort other wise
the "set" ones can be flaky at times...
>Some kind of ignition system
MSD 6-AL ? So can run the dual 44's =)
>HKS 1.75 liter stoker kit, head to manifold porting, HKS clutch and flywheel
Woah ! Do some serious Spirited Street Driving ? =)
>Roll cage and racing belts
TRD has the roll cage... and in a hatchback =) 5 point harness is a must =)
>Fabricate proper strut tower-to-firewall brace
Ummm proper ?
>TRD LSD
=)
>Some kind of adjustable shocks
Tokiko illuminas =)
>Whatever else I can think of and afford
"think" "afford" theres an oxymoron statement =) sorta like a busty oriental =)
>I've had 3 Toyota's, an early-70's Corolla, an 82 Celica which was used
>by a company called The Toy Store to develop a suspension with, and have had
>this Corolla since new. It's my favorite though, the best car I've ever
>had.
Wow.. the White Toystore GT ? =) Early year coupes are kewl =)
> Kevin
Welcome Kev !
>>>>><<<<<
-Koji
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From: Craig Pugsley
Subject: Aftermarket injection.
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 14:26:13 +1000 (EST)
Hi there,
I was wondering what aftermarket injection computers are in common use
in the Toyota world?
(I ask this as I have seen Accel mentioned a few times but never knew
they did injection stuff.)
Cheers,
Craig.
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 07:59:58 -0700
To: Darin Ray Hamilton ,
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
Cc: Toyota Mods Mailing List
On Jul 9, 11:12am, Darin Ray Hamilton wrote:
> Subject: SuperTrapp
> I do have a question though.....
> Ever since my stock muffler developed a fist-sized hole, my car
> backfires. Now, with the 'Trapp, it backfires even more!
> Is this a timing issue? (I'm running 91 octane, BTW)
> What is causing this, and how can I remedy the prob' (if there IS a prob')?
Do you have an open cap or a closed cap system? The explaination I
could provide is the fact that with a more efficient exhaust system (i.e.
freeflowing) spent gases move quicker. Therefore the unspent exhaust gases
leans (being a hot mixture) reignites once reexposed to more oxygen. A common
problem associated with motorcycles once an efficient exhaust system (a SS
Supertrap nontheless) is installed. To rememdy it I would richen the mixture
by rejetting the carbs. It could also be associated with a timing issue as
well.
Latas,
Allan Chen
Silicon Graphics Inc.
Mountain View, CA
allanc@sgi.com
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:06:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
To: Allan Chen
Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List ,
On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Allan Chen wrote:
> Do you have an open cap or a closed cap system? The explaination I
> could provide is the fact that with a more efficient exhaust system (i.e.
> freeflowing) spent gases move quicker. Therefore the unspent exhaust gases
> leans (being a hot mixture) reignites once reexposed to more oxygen. A common
> problem associated with motorcycles once an efficient exhaust system (a SS
> Supertrap nontheless) is installed. To rememdy it I would richen the mixture
> by rejetting the carbs. It could also be associated with a timing issue as
> well.
Mine's open-cap with a chrome tip.
Unfortunately, I can't richen the mixture by "rejetting the carbs", since
mine's EFI. :)
I'm going to time it ASAP, but my buddy said I'm already running rich (I
think I agree, simply from the exhaust odour).
I'm confused though... Wouldn't richening the mixture be counter-intuitative?
If the backfiring is caused by unburnt fuel in the exhaust manifold,
wouldn't leaning the mix cut the amount of these gasses?
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 11:11:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
Darin,
Did anything else come off with the catalytic, like a sensor?? Also, have you
checked for a leak anywhere in the system (missing gasket, loose fitting, etc).
Clark
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 12:25:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
To: Clark Wallace
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Clark Wallace wrote:
> Did anything else come off with the catalytic, like a sensor?? Also, have you
> checked for a leak anywhere in the system (missing gasket, loose fitting, etc).
The shop that did the install would have told me if something like the
above was the case. It's just a backpressure issue, I guess...
I'm still going to time it and muck with the mixture to see what I can do.
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 14:39:18 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: schicked@aurxc1.aur.alcatel.com
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Hi Mark,
I know about the THSCC, I've seen there pamplet, and considered joining,
but didn't want to drive to all the sites. Did you do the Car Guys School?
I definitely want to do that.
As for clutch, DON'T get the HKS heavy duty, and DON'T get anything custom
made from the Toystore in CA. I went through my HKS unit very quick. BTW,
I also have ther light weight flywheel that I no longer use. I haven't
decided If I want to keep it or sell it.
Right now I have a "custom" clutch made for me by the Toystore. I was supposed
to be getting a 4-puck style racing clutch, and a 1500 lbs pressure plate.
2 freaking months later I get what I call a Centerforce Dual Friction wanna be.
I think he simply gave me an DF clutch plate, although both sides look the same,
not different, like on the DF. There is a Dual Friction Sticker on it. The pressure
plate looks like a home-made attempt at the centerforce type. Weighted fingers on the
diaphragm for increasing pressure with revs. If I were you, I'd go for a straight
Centerforfce DF unit.
I'm leaning more towards a PAECO stage II engine. Bored and Stroked. 185+HP?
The turbo kit, if it happens, comes from the same guy who screwed me with my
clutch! So you can see why the Paeco engine is looking better. I don't do the
work myself. :(
Right now the engine is sick. Maybe you follwed the "stuck valves?" thread.
I think it's a loose conection that I'm able to jiggle and get it to start,
otherwise it just turns over and over.
We should get together sometime and look at our cars. I don't know any MR2 people,
certainly not any who modify them.
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To: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
Cc: schicked@aurxc1.aur.alcatel.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 15:22:52 -0400
From: "Mark Schickedantz"
> I know about the THSCC, I've seen there pamplet, and considered joining,
>but didn't want to drive to all the sites. Did you do the Car Guys School?
>I definitely want to do that.
Rocky Mount is not a bad drive, I think it only took 1 - 1.5 hours to get there.
The one in Wilson would not be a drive either. They do have course set up for
Morrisville in a couple of months. I'll be there if I have my clutch fixed by
then. I haven't done the Car Guys School YET!, its definitely something I want
to do too.
>As for clutch, DON'T get the HKS heavy duty, and DON'T get anything custom
>made from the Toystore in CA. I went through my HKS unit very quick. BTW,
>I also have ther light weight flywheel that I no longer use. I haven't
>decided If I want to keep it or sell it.
I guess I should look at PAECO and TRD for clutches (I noticed you have
cross-posted to toyota-mods, any one out there have any recomendations?). I was
pretty lucky with my stock clutch, it has lasted over 95,000 miles.
>I don't do the work myself. :(
I did all of the suspension work myself and it wasn't too bad. I think I can
handle the brake work but am not sure about replacing the clutch myself. Has
anyone on the mods list done this on an MR2? or 4AGE?
>Right now the engine is sick. Maybe you follwed the "stuck valves?" thread.
>I think it's a loose conection that I'm able to jiggle and get it to start,
>otherwise it just turns over and over.
I don't recall it right off, was it on the mr2-interest or the toyota-mods list?
I didn't really know about the toyota-mods list can someone subscribe me?
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 15:31:14 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Could the person now in charge tell me or schicked@aurxc1.aur.alcatel.com
how they can submit a request to join the list. He seems like a good
candidate.
Thanks,
Mark SInk
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Date: 12 Jul 94 04:58:09 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie ! (Late Reply)
Thanks for the welcome, always nice to find a friendly place online.
>>Oh Oh ! Not another damm Cali person ! =)
Ya, there's a lot of us doing expensive things to their Toyotas, out here.
Where are you, Koji? What are you driving?
>> Notice: Its a hatchback.... =)
Ya, real unique... I liked the coupe better, but needed the cargo space.
Not only is it my sports car, but it's my delivery van and camper.
>> How many grams =)
Good question. If anyone knows what the rate is on these things, and how they
compare to TRD and Eibach springs, please let me know.
>> Adjustable ? =) Illumina's ? =)
Non-adjustables... I figured that since I was getting their springs, they'd
match, but not quite. Bit too much spring for the shock, I think. Revising
the setup is in the (distant) future, any ideas are welcome. Just don't say
"TRD," their setup has the right ride heigth, but it's too stiff for my liking.
>>TRD negative roll blocks (strut-spindle spacers)
>Wow !!!
No wow, they were cheap. Highly recommended.
>> What kinna rims ?
Some kind of WRD fakes. I bought 'em from some guy in the valley during a weak
moment. They were unused and the price was right, but I can't find centering
rings that fit the wheel (76mm bore). They're 20-spoke, white centers with a
polished lip, on a red car. Interesting look, but I want the real deal. They
have a 17 offset, too much for this car. I looked high and low for new wheels
that would fit, but *NOBODY* had any, except for some Elite 5-spokes I didn't
like. I just found out that Car Mate in Glendale can order me some Japanese
wheels like the Volk Racing (ya!) and Tom's, but at $250+ a piece, it's not
something I'm going to do right away...
>>Potentiometer ?
What that?
>> Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories Floor Mats =) Nice Logos =)
Ya, nice red logo to remind me that I do, in fact, drive a Toyota. Funny
thing, nobody ever told them that their mats for this car, which they've sold
since 1985, don't fit! I raised hell and met with the guy who makes them, gave
him the factory mats as a template, and got back some mats which fit flush,
flat, and nice.
>> The hard bushing are which ones ? Not the poly ?
Naw, just the rubber ones from TRD. 30% stiffer than stock.
>> No exhaust system or a custom one ?
Haven't really considered one, the factory pipe is pretty wide. I could be
wrong, but I'm afraid that wider tubing will suck away what little power there
is below 4200. Comments?
>> Be sure to plug in that stupid emissions sensor before you bolt it
>> back up its a pain to put in otherwise...
I'm keeping the cat on. I blocked the ERG valve already, but there are limits
to my environmental insensitivity.
>> Thats something we nebber discussed... VERY smart... opening the
>> throttle body...no matter how "open" you air comming in or ya air box or
>> lack of its the throttle body opening that determines it all...
Yup. 10% more power. RC Engineering in Torrance will do it for about $300
(including some manifold work), but first I have to figure out how to remove
the intake manifold without rewiring the whole ******* car! No thanks to
Toyota for running the wiring harness in such a way that you can't remove the
manifold without pulling the entire harness out of the car, or cutting and
splicing the section which runs through the manifold. Grrr...
>> Get the ones with the allen screws... its worth the extra effort other
>> wise the "set" ones can be flaky at times...
Can you be more specific? HKS sez they only have one type, don't know which
one it is.
>> MSD 6-AL ? So can run the dual 44's =)
Not into carbs! Yuck, who needs the hassle. I drove one that had the
conversion once...didn't do ****, except give the owner something to do on
weekends besides drive his car...
>> Woah ! Do some serious Spirited Street Driving ? =)
Not a big deal since the motor's getting old anyway, and their parts don't cost
much more than factory ones. I'm at 100K with the factory setup, and besides,
170hp sounds like fun. I might blow off the HKS flywheel, though, and put the
money towards an LSD, which it never had but will certainly need.
>> Ummm proper ?
Proper. Tower-tower strut braces don't do anything. Tower-firewall-tower
braces do.
>> Wow.. the White Toystore GT ? =) Early year coupes are kewl =)
Nope, mine was a red hatchback (can you spot a trend, here?). They used mine
to get the spec. I got a free air dam that way, too. Right place at the right
time. That Celica was on the second boatload, and I had a friend doing fleet
sales. BTW, if I remember right, the coupe didn't come out 'till 83.
Thanks again for the warm welcome.
Kevin (who's half-way through a head gasket job, what a task!)
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 04:57:54 -0700
To: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List ,
On Jul 11, 12:06pm, Darin Ray Hamilton wrote:
> Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
> Mine's open-cap with a chrome tip.
> Unfortunately, I can't richen the mixture by "rejetting the carbs", since
> mine's EFI. :)
> I'm going to time it ASAP, but my buddy said I'm already running rich (I
> think I agree, simply from the exhaust odour).
There was discussion earlier on mixture adjustment on EFI units that
fellow newbie toy_modder Kevin Smith posted. I could rummage through my mail
file if you don't have a copy. The mixture adjustment screw is usually covered
by a brass plug. A small drill bit (w/ a good touch) should be able to remove
it.
> I'm confused though... Wouldn't richening the mixture be counter-intuitative?
> If the backfiring is caused by unburnt fuel in the exhaust manifold,
> wouldn't leaning the mix cut the amount of these gasses?
There will always be unburnt gases (combustion in a cylinder is not a
complete cycle) even in a lean mixture the only difference is that a lean
mixture runs hot (just like hot spots causes pre_detonation/run_ons). Since it
is already in an excited state and combustion cycle is more readily obtained
once rexposed to oxygen (good reference for this would be Smokey Yunick's Hot
Engine... refer to HotRod magazine circ.? or his books).
Note: that the backfire is light... like the car is farting. Now if
you had a overtly rich mixture... let's say you left the car in gear while the
car is rolling and you decide to flood the motor. As soon as you turn on your
ignition you will experience a combustion cycle outside of the CYLINDER...
possibly requiring you to purchase a new muffler system (it may blow apart your
mufflers at the seams). Great trick to scare the living shit out of your
friends, may also end up being a very costly expendature (backfire trick will
not necessarily work well with cars outfitted w/ catalytic converters but will
destroy exhaust systems with large displacement engines i.e. big_block chevy's)
*hahahahahah*.
Mahalo,
Allan
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 05:00:32 -0700
To: Darin Ray Hamilton ,
Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
On Jul 11, 12:25pm, Darin Ray Hamilton wrote:
> Subject: Re: SuperTrapp
> The shop that did the install would have told me if something like the
> above was the case. It's just a backpressure issue, I guess...
> I'm still going to time it and muck with the mixture to see what I can do.
Definitely give it a try. It should quell the backfiring a bit. Good
luck.
Latas,
Allan
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 05:32:23 -0700
To: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production),
Cc: schicked@aurxc1.aur.alcatel.com
Subject: Suscribe...
On Jul 11, 3:31pm, Mark Sink - Gateway Production wrote:
> Subject:
> Could the person now in charge tell me or schicked@aurxc1.aur.alcatel.com
> how they can submit a request to join the list. He seems like a good
> candidate.
Mark,
I believe our Toy_mods administrator is playing soilder (National Guard
duty) this week. You could have the other Mark suscribe by submitting his
request to toyota-mods-request@su102a.ess.harris.com I'll also include a
posting from our fellow backup admin Tom Julien. Definitely don't want poor
Mark to be subjected to some netcaning from either Ben Tan or Koji.
Latas,
Allan
================================================================================
On Jan 15, 10:15am, Thomas J Julien Jr wrote:
> Subject: Welcome to the Toyota-Mods Mailing List
>
> W E L C O M E to t o y o t a - m o d s
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Hello new subscriber! You have been added to the toyota-mods mailing list.
>
> This list is dedicated to modifications to Toyota flavour vehicles, but NOT
> intended for pro-racers ONLY! We all try to maintain the philosophy that
> regardless of how trivial some information may be to some people, others
> may find it very useful. Hopefully, you will find this mentality prevalent
> on the list and won't witness anyone's ideas being bashed.
>
> *** For future reference ***
>
> Please send "postings" to:
>
> toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
>
> Please send "requests" (i.e. subscriptions, unsubscribes, etc.) to:
>
> toyota-mods-request@su102a.ess.harris.com
>
> NOTE: Administrative matters sent to the posting address will not be caught
> and posts to the request address will not go out to list. Be careful
> where you send your messages!
>
> ****************************
>
> Following this message, I will be sending you three lists associated with
this
> mailing list:
>
> book list -- list of related publications
> supplier -- list of suppliers for Toyota performance parts, etc.
> subscriber -- list of toyota-mods subscribers, their autos, and mods.
>
> They are usually sent on a monthly basis to include new updates, etc., but
> can be requested at any time.
>
> Again, welcome to the list, and we look forward to your contribution
>
>-- End of excerpt from Thomas J Julien Jr
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 04:21:28 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Newbie Wannabe Take ][
This is some guy i've been talking through i found on rec.autos.tech
He seems kinna kewl..but since our beerless leader is away playing in the mud
(without his truck) hmmm can sum bunny give him some insight ? =)
Thanks in advance =P
-Koji
>From nitemare@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Sun Jul 10 22:13:45 1994
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 03:12:16 -0500
From: dave
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
Subject: Re: TOYOTA+MIKUNI CARBS Q.
>Well, basically I'm converting the 22RE in my 84 Celica GTS to
>carbs/cam/header/20R head because I have been told that the EFI system
>is uncooroperative with such mods.
>I had considered 18RG, 3TGTE, and 22RTE but rejected all due to cost.
>What do you say?
Sum bunny can give him some insights ? he seems kewl enough =)
-Koji.
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 04:26:17 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Supertrapp and EFI Tuning...
I normally let convos like this take place with more knowledgable peeples..
howebber i think its sorta errr getting off the subject in some places...
First off... it IS possible to tune an efi system.
Secondly.... I belive your "sputering" is comming from too much of an open
exhaust system with not enough backpressure. Adding more plates
would help a little. My friend had a similiar exhaust which included a glasspack type muffler on his 1987 MR-2 Automatic.
did you just change the muffler or the whole exhaust ? Sorry i haven't been
following the postings =(
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 10:31:48 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: 4age clutch HKS flywheel
Roger,
I went back to stock because I was having a custom clutch made that
should not be used with the HKS flywheel. The HKS flywheel, although
they say it's 3 times stronger than stock, can be chewed up by some
clutches. Dual Frictions, and metalic clutches should not be used with
the flywheel. Stock clucthes, HKS heavy duty, or Ferrodo's are fine
with the flywheel. Also, the flywheel is patterened after the '85,
maybe '86 also, but mine is an '87. I was using an '85 size clutch
200mm and the flywheel. I'm now back to 210mm clutch, and stock
flywheel, so if you do get the flywheel, you'll be ordering clucthes for
an '85.
Mark Sink
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 04:59:47 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie !
>From 76334.3232@compuserve.com Mon Jul 11 23:02:23 1994
Date: 12 Jul 94 04:58:09 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie ! (Late Reply)
>Thanks for the welcome, always nice to find a friendly place online.
Heh or someplace to waste bandwidth ! Boggle the Compuserve Address though =P
>>>>Oh Oh ! Not another damm Cali person ! =)
>Ya, there's a lot of us doing expensive things to their Toyotas, out here.
>Where are you, Koji? What are you driving?
Heh heh... so i've heard these a days... Sad to say when i was in Cali looking
for performance parts and all. I was say like 1 mile from TRD USA (i think
infront of Clarks house =P ) at a gas station asking for TRD and the guy went
"whats that" and i told him the place where they sell performance parts for
Toyota's and he promptly told me to head towards this nearest dealership
and the dealership didn't know where it was either ! (*boggle*) It must have
been Clark now that I think back... hmmm hmmmm =P
Oh... i live like 3k miles away from you... Makai =)
>>>> Notice: Its a hatchback.... =)
>Ya, real unique... I liked the coupe better, but needed the cargo space.
>Not only is it my sports car, but it's my delivery van and camper.
I can relate... more then anything i can relate =)
>>>> How many grams =)
>Good question. If anyone knows what the rate is on these things, and how they
>compare to TRD and Eibach springs, please let me know.
I have no clue either. Infact the only other person i know that had switched to
TRD and i have the set of "throw aways" in my garage someplace =)
>>>> Adjustable ? =) Illumina's ? =)
>Non-adjustables... I figured that since I was getting their springs, they'd
>match, but not quite. Bit too much spring for the shock, I think. Revising
>the setup is in the (distant) future, any ideas are welcome. Just don't say
>"TRD," their setup has the right ride heigth, but it's too stiff for my liking.
Bahahahaha... Actually they are quite stiff... and the low pressures are kinna
hard to get these days... (although they can be seen in the TRD catalogue) heh
even though... they have the adjustable rates these days... eben then it comes
down to ya gonna like the performance of the stiffer so why spend the money
for adjustables if ya not gonna change them... sorta like locking out the
TEMS on the Supra's =)
>>>>TRD negative roll blocks (strut-spindle spacers)
>>Wow !!!
>No wow, they were cheap. Highly recommended.
Weally ? Define cheap ? I thought they were like $100 per side ? Or maybe this
is an old price list ?!?!?
>>>> What kinna rims ?
>Some kind of WRD fakes. I bought 'em from some guy in the valley during a weak
>moment. They were unused and the price was right, but I can't find centering
>rings that fit the wheel (76mm bore). They're 20-spoke, white centers with a
>polished lip, on a red car. Interesting look, but I want the real deal. They
>have a 17 offset, too much for this car. I looked high and low for new wheels
>that would fit, but *NOBODY* had any, except for some Elite 5-spokes I didn't
>like. I just found out that Car Mate in Glendale can order me some Japanese
>wheels like the Volk Racing (ya!) and Tom's, but at $250+ a piece, it's not
>something I'm going to do right away...>
Hahahahah Botoboy should talk about this one... he has the cheapie rims
on his GTS also =) Also Botoboy lives down or lived down the street from me
a while back =) Actually how much per rim are ya willing to spend and also
how wide etc etc again ? =)
>>>>Potentiometer ?
>What that?
Ummm it basically is a little potentiometer that adjusts the reading on the
EFI system to basically make it leaner so more gas runs into the EFI system.
Easy to install. Check the Toyota Performance Handbook about this mod or
i'm sure some others on here have done it... I hope =)
>>>> Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories Floor Mats =) Nice Logos =)
>Ya, nice red logo to remind me that I do, in fact, drive a Toyota. Funny
>thing, nobody ever told them that their mats for this car, which they've sold
>since 1985, don't fit! I raised hell and met with the guy who makes them, gave
>him the factory mats as a template, and got back some mats which fit flush,
>flat, and nice.
Teeheehee... Ya.... Nice logo... glad ya got yours to fit =) Wow... sum bunny
that actually got good mats from BHMA with nice Logos ! =) I guess ya GADA goto
the source sometimes =)
>>>> The hard bushing are which ones ? Not the poly ?
>Naw, just the rubber ones from TRD. 30% stiffer than stock.
Those are kinna okay... the harden rubber... the plyurathane was worth it and
they don't wear out..or not supposed to =)
>>>> No exhaust system or a custom one ?
>Haven't really considered one, the factory pipe is pretty wide. I could be
>wrong, but I'm afraid that wider tubing will suck away what little power there
>is below 4200. Comments?
Hmmmmm a "scavaging effect" (sorry Toymodders) exhaust would work. Basically
go from the stock pipe. Ahhhhh... Check the back listings about this ha ha
or have one of the modders like measure their pipes for you =)
Actually just go from the exhaust and go backwards with "bigger" pipes
like from the stock 1 3/4 to a 1 3/4 inlet glasspack type muffler with a
two inch outlet backwards to maybe another 2" inlet glasspack with a 2 1/2
outlet and outwards... not every systems or set up needs a dual muffler for
maximum compression though... ahhh jus measure an HKS one =) Even the HKS one
looses some backpressure at RPM's about 7.5k =) Actually a lot =( It just
don't flow...
>>>> Be sure to plug in that stupid emissions sensor before you bolt it
>>>> back up its a pain to put in otherwise...
>I'm keeping the cat on. I blocked the ERG valve already, but there are limits
>to my environmental insensitivity.
Teeheehee =)
>>>> Thats something we nebber discussed... VERY smart... opening the
>>>> throttle body...no matter how "open" you air comming in or ya air box or
>>>> lack of its the throttle body opening that determines it all...
>Yup. 10% more power. RC Engineering in Torrance will do it for about $300
>(including some manifold work), but first I have to figure out how to remove
>the intake manifold without rewiring the whole ******* car! No thanks to
>Toyota for running the wiring harness in such a way that you can't remove the
>manifold without pulling the entire harness out of the car, or cutting and
>splicing the section which runs through the manifold. Grrr...
Actually it comes out... oh yes it does... and ya don't have to
rewire it... i'll go get my camera and steal a friends car to do it..
remind me... ha ha ha (really do)
>>>> Get the ones with the allen screws... its worth the extra effort other
>>>> wise the "set" ones can be flaky at times...
>Can you be more specific? HKS sez they only have one type, don't know which
>one it is.
Actually the HKS ones pictured are like the ones i have in mind except they
don't go far enough. Basically a TRD one looks like a stock one with more
center holes. The HKS one is like the one i have inmind althought it don't go
farther then 20 degress per side.. I think the 5Gzen one is the one i have
in mind... Actually convince the TRD guys to get the ones they use on their
Formula Atlantic ones =)
>>>> MSD 6-AL ? So can run the dual 44's =)
>Not into carbs! Yuck, who needs the hassle. I drove one that had the
>conversion once...didn't do ****, except give the owner something to do on
>weekends besides drive his car...
Heh... I guess he paid the $400 for the distrbuitor. Actually... proably was
set up wrong.. my friends one down here with the same setup does rather well
with the cams. It can do like somewhere of upwards of 160mph plus with a
14.8 1/4 mile... Oh... with stock final drive gears that is =)
>>>> Woah ! Do some serious Spirited Street Driving ? =)
>Not a big deal since the motor's getting old anyway, and their parts don't cost
>much more than factory ones. I'm at 100K with the factory setup, and besides,
>170hp sounds like fun. I might blow off the HKS flywheel, though, and put the
>money towards an LSD, which it never had but will certainly need.
The HKS flywheel or any other flywheel don't really work that well. It rattles
too much and i don't think is a good investment. Plus i cut my flywheel like
over a 100 times and its proably the same weight as a lightened one and like
stronger =) It don't rattle !
>>>> Ummm proper ?
>Proper. Tower-tower strut braces don't do anything. Tower-firewall-tower
>braces do.
Wow ! Yeppers... actually it does tighten up the front a bit.. although
locking it up to the firewall does help a lot on most applications. Like on
my car it would be too stiff if i locked up the front end to the firewall and
cause me to spin out due to more oversteer !
>>>> Wow.. the White Toystore GT ? =) Early year coupes are kewl =)
>Nope, mine was a red hatchback (can you spot a trend, here?). They used mine
>to get the spec. I got a free air dam that way, too. Right place at the right
>time. That Celica was on the second boatload, and I had a friend doing fleet
>sales. BTW, if I remember right, the coupe didn't come out 'till 83.
Heh heh... I had the Red Corolla with the big Toystore sticker on my car
ages ago.. they proably don't remeber me anymore i can't remeber what i bought
from them. I think it was a set of 8 coil springs for my coupe =) They were
"nice" ha ha ha ...
Hmmmm ya the coupe didn't come out till 83 or so.. i think =)
>Thanks again for the warm welcome.
Anytime =) I think those Cali peeples should have another reunion =) I'm commin
up in August ! =-) Any Bunny wanna drive to Vegas with me =)
> Kevin (who's half-way through a head gasket job, what a task!)
Ewwww... (*comfort*)
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:02:46 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Custom Clutches...
I'd like to make a quick comment on this also...
Most custom clutches i've encountered aren't worth the trouble. They tend to
rattle like heck and have problems sticking the gears into reverse at times.
Causes some unnerving rattles in the driveline system also.
The Centerforce dual friction is maybe the best clutch i've used.
I like the Centerforce ][ clutch well. The one ran out too fast and didn't bit
as well. A Stock clutch served me well with SCCA as i wanted a bit of play
and driving in taffic was a dream with it. Driving every day witht he Centerforce ][ got me like to wait an hour till traffic was done since i had no a/c and
a strong clutch but it turned me into a "shop wannabe" hanging around shops
and such talking story.. ha ha thank god i'm not one of them today ! =P
heh...
Becareful what ya want... ya might get it afterall =)
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:04:43 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: 4AGE Stroker Kits...
Two of my errr... these guys that i know both have identical 4AGE Corolla GTS's
and have done similiar setups with them. Like same parts.
However ones going with the TRD Stroker and the other with the HKS
Will keep ya informed when they install it =)
I think sadly the HKS one will work better due to the better
crank and also the metal head gaskets.
however the TRD stroker has the better apex seals so -shrug-
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:09:25 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Wob
Wob !
-Koji
(*netcane me*)
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:12:05 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Gack... Netcane 4 Koji...
Ummm... Sorry...
N E Bunny know the FTP or WWW address for the Mosiac site =)
sorry both other lists are blounce back to me when i try to post
or something...
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:14:55 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: LocalBoy !
what the heck is ya address ?!?!?! I can't mail to ya or nothing these
a days !!! keeps on dang blouncing back to me =)
bahahhahahaa
-koji
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 08:15:57 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Wob
On Jul 12, 5:09am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: Wob
>
> Wob !
>
> -Koji
>
> (*netcane me*)
Or was it more like wet noodling.
Botoboy!!!
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:17:51 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Teflon Lined Brake Lines...
Ummm... I've had stainless steel braided brake lines on my car before...
but got netcaned for them not being DOT approved.
Does anyone know if the "New" HKS ones are DOT Approved ? I mean they gada be
TUV approved but i'm not sure if they are DOT approved. And how well are they
in performance wise ? I've heard they are like teflon steel braided in
construction but not sure of much else...
Thanks in Advance..
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:20:21 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: WOB ! -LocalBoy !
Dang it... ya address or replys keep on blouncing back to me !
(*grumble*) Dann UHmailserver...
Ha ha ha ...
I think ya should post about the side skirts ya got for ya GTS... ha ha or
do ya know where they came from ? Or shall i get the stock part numbers for ya
or net-noddle Sean for them ? He's working HMSA now i heard ha ha ha =)
-Koji
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 08:32:55 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: WOB ! -LocalBoy !
On Jul 12, 5:20am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: WOB ! -LocalBoy !
>
> Dang it... ya address or replys keep on blouncing back to me !
> (*grumble*) Dann UHmailserver...
Keep trying... some of it got thru.
> I think ya should post about the side skirts ya got for ya GTS... ha ha or
> do ya know where they came from ? Or shall i get the stock part numbers for
ya
> or net-noddle Sean for them ? He's working HMSA now i heard ha ha ha =)
It came wit da car... so it's best to bug Shawn Meador. If not give
Evan (Kaneohe Toyota a call), he should be able to get you the part number
without a hitch... tell 'em Allan from Windward Union said, "hi". What da heck
is Shawn M. doing at HMSA? I thought he was at American Savings.
Latas,
Allan
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 8:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie
> >>>>Oh Oh ! Not another damm Cali person ! =)
>>Ya, there's a lot of us doing expensive things to their Toyotas, out here.
>>Where are you, Koji? What are you driving?
>Heh heh... so i've heard these a days... Sad to say when i was in Cali looking
>for performance parts and all. I was say like 1 mile from TRD USA (i think
>infront of Clarks house =P ) at a gas station asking for TRD and the guy went
>"whats that" and i told him the place where they sell performance parts for
>Toyota's and he promptly told me to head towards this nearest dealership
>and the dealership didn't know where it was either ! (*boggle*) It must have
>been Clark now that I think back... hmmm hmmmm =P
Uhhhh, what's TRD and pass the potato salad.
>Anytime =) I think those Cali peeples should have another reunion =) I'm commin
>up in August ! =-) Any Bunny wanna drive to Vegas with me =)
. . . . did somebody say Vegas??!!??
Hey, on Aug 28th there having the next Battle of the Imports at LA County
Raceway . . anybody wanna go . . .we can all take a plate lunch :O
Clark
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 08:40:45 -0700
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Requested Mosaic Site...
Cc: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
On Jul 12, 5:12am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: Gack... Netcane 4 Koji...
>
> Ummm... Sorry...
> N E Bunny know the FTP or WWW address for the Mosiac site =)
I'm forwarding you a copy of it.
> sorry both other lists are blounce back to me when i try to post
> or something...
Only you so far... *grin*.
Latas,
Allan
--- Forwarded mail from cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
> About Mosaic... what is it?
I have been asked this question a few times recently, and thought I'd
answer it for the group.
Mosaic is a graphical user interface to various internet services.
Usually, it is considered a front-end to WWW (World Wide Web) sites, but
will also front-end for gopher, news, etc. It is definitely the future
of the internet.
If you have your own machine, you can get the executable for Mosaic from
ncsa.uiuc.edu via anonymous ftp. Executables are available for the PC,
Mac, and a plethora of UNIX machines. Trust me, get it and you will
find it very valuable.
If you are on a larger machine, Mosaic may already be available, or you
may be able to talk your administrators into installing it into
usr/local/bin or wherever you put that sorta stuff.
At any rate, Mosaic uses URL's to specify sites. These are just a twist
on IP addresses in that they not only include the host but what is being
served as well. To access the TMMS, type this at the command line:
Mosaic http://su102a.ess.harris.com
Note that I've been told that if you are on a PC you may need to put
another slash (/) at the end of the URL shown above. If you find the
TMMS intriguing but want to learn more about what this new WWW World has
to offer, try my friends machine. Once you are in Mosaic, you can go
directly to it by pulling down the file window and selecting "Open URL"
and entering:
http://su102d.ess.harris.com
This site is a great launching point to many other spots.
If you choose to start using Mosaic, please let me know so I can add
your name to the toyota-mods-Mosaic exploder listing. That way I can
let you know when I add new stuff to the TMMS.
Let me know if you have any questions, or you can direct them to
toyota-mods-mosaic.
Chris
--- End of forwarded mail from cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:42:37 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Wob - Localboy
>From allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Tue Jul 12 05:33:48 1994
From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 08:32:55 -0700
Subject: Re: WOB ! -LocalBoy !
On Jul 12, 5:20am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
>> Subject: WOB ! -LocalBoy !
>>
>> Dang it... ya address or replys keep on blouncing back to me !
>> (*grumble*) Dann UHmailserver...
> Keep trying... some of it got thru.
>> I think ya should post about the side skirts ya got for ya GTS... ha ha or
>> do ya know where they came from ?
>> Or shall i get the stock part numbers for ya or net-noddle Sean for them ?
>> He's working HMSA now i heard ha ha ha =)
>It came wit da car... so it's best to bug Shawn Meador.
Heh... ya how ebber ya spell his name ha ha ha i jus know where he lives !
Ha ha ha he still lives sameplace jus across the street i hear from
his house...
>If not give Evan (Kaneohe Toyota a call), he should be able to get you
>the part number without a hitch...
Oh.. ha ha Japan stock part number though eh ?
>tell 'em Allan from Windward Union said, "hi".
Wow.. another 76 boy eh ? ha ha ha
>What da heck is Shawn M. doing at HMSA?
I dunno same thing i think...except more money or something...
>I thought he was at American Savings.
-shrug- friend works at HMSA computing and says he seen shawn m's name in
the "new employess" newsletter or something... "Lives in kaneohe with his
wife roxanne and his new baby" or somehting ha ha ha
>Latas,
>Allan
Wow it worked.. now i can go shower and stuff then go to work -boggle-
a ha hahaha laterz...
-Koji
BTW... Celica dude still alive =) ?
just pondering... or maybe i'm missing his postings... ha ha ha
-me
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 08:50:41 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE Stroker Kits...
On Jul 12, 5:04am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: RE: 4AGE Stroker Kits...
>
> Two of my errr... these guys that i know both have identical 4AGE Corolla
> GTS's and have done similiar setups with them. Like same parts.
> However ones going with the TRD Stroker and the other with the HKS
> Will keep ya informed when they install it =)
>
> I think sadly the HKS one will work better due to the better
> crank and also the metal head gaskets.
I wonder if you could pick the parts you want rather than purchasing
the whole kit?
> however the TRD stroker has the better apex seals so -shrug-
Duuuuhhh silly question, what's a apex seal?
Allan
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 05:51:39 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Cali - Vegas ?!?!?!
>From SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM Tue Jul 12 05:45:07 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 8:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie
> >>>>Oh Oh ! Not another damm Cali person ! =)
>Uhhhh, what's TRD and pass the potato salad.
>Anytime =) I think those Cali peeples should have another reunion =)
> I'm comming up in August... Any bunny wanna drive to Vegas with me =)
>. . . . did somebody say Vegas??!!??
Yeppers... sure did.... Have to go visit Dada and all in Vegas.. drive around
"American Muscle cars for a week" and such ha ha ha
>Hey, on Aug 28th there having the next Battle of the Imports at LA County
>Raceway . . anybody wanna go . . .we can all take a plate lunch :O
Woo woo ! Any Bunny we know entering ? I'm game... I think =)
If not i'll drive back obber ! =)
>Clark
-Koji
Proud builder of 1968 Camaro Red Blown and Injected as seen in Air Force
Commercial. =)
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 8:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Cali - Vegas ?!?!?!
>>. . . . did somebody say Vegas??!!??
>Yeppers... sure did.... Have to go visit Dada and all in Vegas.. drive around
>"American Muscle cars for a week" and such ha ha ha
Driving to Vegas, I just LOVE the Nevada Hwy Patrol!! I really miss the ol'
gang at the Jean Justice County Court . . .
>>Hey, on Aug 28th there having the next Battle of the Imports at LA County
>>Raceway . . anybody wanna go . . .we can all take a plate lunch :O
>Woo woo ! Any Bunny we know entering ? I'm game... I think =)
>If not i'll drive back obber ! =)
I hear they'll be around 200 competitors and its quite a show. I'm playing
host to some of my wife's friends from Japan the previous week, but plan on
arranging things so that I can slip away to attend. Should be fun.
>-Koji
Clark
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From: Gary H
To: 76334.3232@compuserve.com, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie ! (Late Reply)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 9:17:55 PDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
>Nope, mine was a red hatchback (can you spot a trend, here?). They used mine
>to get the spec. I got a free air dam that way, too. Right place at the right
>time. That Celica was on the second boatload, and I had a friend doing fleet
>sales. BTW, if I remember right, the coupe didn't come out 'till 83.
Kevin,
If you're talking about the Celica, I have an 82 Celica Coupe.
Gary
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 11:04:49 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Welcome Newbie !
On Jul 12, 4:59am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie !
> >>>> Notice: Its a hatchback.... =)
Hey, there's nothing wrong with that!!! '87 Corolla GT-S liftbacks... A
number 1 *hahahaha*.
> Hahahahah Botoboy should talk about this one... he has the cheapie rims
> on his GTS also =) Also Botoboy lives down or lived down the street from me
> a while back =) Actually how much per rim are ya willing to spend and also
> how wide etc etc again ? =)
Well, I'm kinda transplanted now... about 2000 miles away. Miss the
warm sun, the surf, and the local babes in the thong bikinis *heheheheh*. Stay
away from those cheapie Elite Fitti wanna_bes. Invest good money in something
a little better in quality. It will be worth it in the long run. The chrome
is chipping on the fronts (unable to handle the heat) and the cheap plastic
center caps are loose (modified it w/ electrical tape so it would remain fixed.
> >>>>Potentiometer ?
>
> >What that?
Geeze Koji why make it so technical keep it simple *grin*... a varible
resistor (like a volume control knob). In this case a mixture adjustment screw
for the EFI.
> Ummm it basically is a little potentiometer that adjusts the reading on the
> EFI system to basically make it leaner so more gas runs into the EFI system.
> Easy to install. Check the Toyota Performance Handbook about this mod or
> i'm sure some others on here have done it... I hope =)
Hey Mark Sink, this is the info you needed to play around with around
with the mixture.
> >>>> No exhaust system or a custom one ?
>
> >Haven't really considered one, the factory pipe is pretty wide. I could be
> >wrong, but I'm afraid that wider tubing will suck away what little power
> >there is below 4200. Comments?
Just do it... it pays of in top speed. So what if you lose some torque
on the bottom-end. Just alter your driving style to best suit/utilize this
slightly different powerband.
> Anytime =) I think those Cali peeples should have another reunion =) I'm
> commin up in August ! =-) Any Bunny wanna drive to Vegas with me =)
Eh, Koji... I'll be back in Hawaii from the 9th to the 23rd of
August... U like make wun Zippy's run *hahahahah*. I could probably join you
in Vegas if I could get some set dates.
Latas,
Allan
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 11:12:06 -0700
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Cali - Vegas ?!?!?!
On Jul 12, 5:51am, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: RE: Cali - Vegas ?!?!?!
> >Uhhhh, what's TRD and pass the potato salad.
Give me a scoop of mac salad anyday w/ 2 scoops rice on a plate lunch
:^).
> >Anytime =) I think those Cali peeples should have another reunion =)
> > I'm comming up in August... Any bunny wanna drive to Vegas with me =)
> >. . . . did somebody say Vegas??!!??
Where (like Cali is kinna big and I stay North) and when are you
leaving?
> Yeppers... sure did.... Have to go visit Dada and all in Vegas.. drive around
> "American Muscle cars for a week" and such ha ha ha
Uhhhh, the redneck side suuuuure comes out doesn't it *heheheheh*. You
mean... no your Camaroooo... I like ride *grin*.
> -Koji
> Proud builder of 1968 Camaro Red Blown and Injected as seen in Air Force
> Commercial. =)
Botoboy
Famous choni_chaser of 69 RS/SS 427 Camaro fame... never kiss a gift
horse in the mouth... especially if she drives a red '67 Camaro *hahahaha*.
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 16:00:05 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: rogers@golddisk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Light weight flywheel...
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
The HKS flywheel weighs 11 lbs I think, I can check My stock weighs
15.5 I think. I can't say I noticed much difference, but it was
lighter, so I'm sure there was... somewhere. Either in throttle
repsonse, or HP transmitted to the wheels. I thought I was going to be
getting a 4-puck metallic clutch when I bought this last custom one,
but it just some centerforce thing.
You might be able to insert a bronze? plate on the flywheel that can be
changed so the flywheel doesn't get eaten.
The HKS unit I have will need to be resurfaced, as all used flywheels
should before using them. It's not smooth like it should be. The rivets
from the clutch plate made some marks.
BTW, the pressure plate, a 1380 lbs HKS unit should still be good. The
friction disk went bad early. 1 year, 6 months. About 20,000 miles or
less. I can check. Anyway, maybe you could use it also. BUT, it too had
rivet marks from where I wore down the clutch plate. Can it be
resurfaced? I would assume the diaphragms are still strong. The pedal
pressure was much stiffer then the NEW one I have now, which was
suppsoed to be a 1500 lbs unit. I might just try to sell the flywheel
and cover if it's worth anything.
The flywheel lists for $225 I believe, I might sell it for $120.
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 13:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Oh the Things a Supplier Will Tell You to Make A Buck
Thought I'd pass on some recent education I obtained as I muster
through my 20R rebuild.
In considering the intake options that are available to me I came
across a reference to Offenhauser and their dual port intake
manifolds. These manifolds are actually sold as air
cleaner/carb/manifold sets by Northwest Off-Road (the Toyota truck
people) so I thought they were worth a look. The concept is
basically reduced runner cross-sectional areas (divided between
the primary and second on the carb, hence the name "dual port")
which equates to higher velocities and (apparently) better mixing
blah, blah, blah . .
So I called up Offenhauser and talked to somebody named Vince who
basically fed me the party line ("sure they work" and all that)
and told me he'd send out some test results for one of their
manifolds installed on a 20R. A few days later I got this article
they'd copied out of "Off-Road Magazine" in the mail. Now, if I've
learned anything its never trust a magazine's review of anybody's
product whose helping to pay the bills through advertising.
Just pick-up a Motor Trend and read about the amazing mega-buck after
market products they strap onto cars which result in BIG seat-of-
the-pants HP gains. Yet after spending $6000 on this stuff, they
never seem to be able to scratch up the extra $140 to get the damn
thing dyno'd to backup their o-so-wonder impressions.
Anywho's, what they apparently did was strap some of these dual-
ports (single and double barrel carb) on a '79 truck with a 20R
engine and then dyno'd the thing at some emissions lab. They
reported a 10 to 20% increase depending on the set-up which they
attributed to the presence of the manifolds. But there's
something fishy about the numbers they used for coming to this
conclusion. They claimed that the stock truck delivered 86 HP at
4600 rpms. Now, Toyota officially reports that the 20R on a '78
Celica is something like 95 HP - truck should be basically the
same, right??. So the 10% increase reported for the two-barrel
configuration put the truck's power right were it belonged.
But it gets more interesting . . .
Just to really confuse matters they stuck a 32/36 Weber onto the
manifold. This would make it a bit difficult to segregate what
enhancement, if any, the manifold could provide over a pure stock
arrangement :/.
Also, if you look at the pictures that accompany the article, you
can see that they removed the EGR system after they installed the
manifold and the Weber. In fact, (though I'm not sure) it
appears as if they pulled all the smog off the truck!
So, for this supposed test, they installed a 32/36 Weber, a dual
port manifold, and pulled all the smog to give a rated horsepower
exactly equal to what Toyota claims it should be for a stock truck
- amazing - and them claimed it was all due to the manifold.
For the four barrel test, they installed the appropriate dual-port
manifold along with a Holley carb and no smog to get something
like 105 HP at 4600 RPMs. I would contest that the gain achieved
could probably be attributed entirely to the presence of the carb
and the fact that the smog was removed.
One additional note, they had installed a set of headers prior to
doing any of these tests. I wonder if the lower stock HP numbers
may have been due to a need to retune the engine after
installation of the header??
I called Offenhauser to discuss these tests and they basically
waffled on the whole matter while, of course, standing by their
claim. They did give me the number of their engineer, but why
bother. I really don't think this guy is going to come clean
and confess the tests were bogus (at least they appear to be).
To close the loop, I called Northwest, Downey Off-Road, and AEM to
get their opinions. Northwest claimed they were simply going on
what Offenhauser had reported. The latter two said they had
actually been involved in testing these manifolds years back and
had found that the claims of performance gains were totally bogus
and therefore neither supplied nor endorsed them. Granted, as
with so much in the performance world, these folks could be
feeding me bunk too. However, based on my review of the tests
that are supposed to back-up Offenhauser's claims, I would tend to
agree with them . . .
Later, Clark
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:46:16 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Performance Systems???
Just pulled this off the Toy mailing list. Do we have address/phone
info on this "Performance Systems"?
Anybody know anything about mail-in computer upgrades for
88 Corolla GTS with 4AGE ??? Noone seems to have PROM
upgrades available, probably due to the fact that the
PROMs are not "user changeable" without a soldering iron
and steady nerves! The chip upgrade thing does sound like
a cheap way to get more SOP (Seat Of Pants!) acceleration.....
Attachment:
wheels. Additionally, Performance Systems (mentioned earlier
WRT LandCruiser Suspension) has a chip-upgrade for your truck
that is supposed to gain an additional (if my memory works)
20-30hp. It's a "pull the box and mail it in so we can
upgrade it" arrangement that yields 4-day turn-around (Fed-X
monday and it'll be back thursday by 10:30).
---
* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 10:54:45 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Performance systems...
Ha ha ha after Fredo unsubs to the toyota mailing list
-boggle- he quotes it =)
Dang..i don't even read my Toylist anymore... ha ha ha
Actually if someone like Can Call Option Salon in Cali..and ask them
about if they are related to to the Option Magazine in Japoan...
they advertise a programmable eprom computer chip thing...
costs about $1200 in Us dollars i think...
nah i'll call..
gack... gada getr back to work...
sorry Fred... had to metion this... =)
-Koji
Opps i got no listing for Performance systems..
sorry
-koji
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Date: 12 Jul 94 18:07:33 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: RE: Welcome Newbie !
>> Oh... i live like 3k miles away from you... Makai =)
Oh, a southerner.
>> Weally ? Define cheap ? I thought they were like $100 per side ? Or
>> maybe this is an old price list ?!?!?
I paid about $40/ea, late last year. Easy enough to install, but they rub
against the splash gaurd/dust shield/whattever you wanna call it when the car
is off the stands (mine just started squeaking, gotta pull the dumb shields),
and press against the sway bar link when you lift the car, or catch a bit of
air (a lot of air) over a bump.
>> Actually how much per rim are ya willing to spend and also how wide
>> etc etc again ? =)
I'm looking for 15x6.5 with a 25-28 offset. Don't care if it doesn't look as
flush as a lower offset/wider rim does. Wanna spend maybe $200/ea., or less.
Must use standard bore size and be well made.
>> Ummm it basically is a little potentiometer that adjusts the reading
>> on the EFI system to basically make it leaner so more gas runs into the
>> EFI system. Easy to install. Check the Toyota Performance Handbook about
>> this mod or i'm sure some others on here have done it... I hope =)
Lean out the mixture to get MORE fuel? Interesting concept. How's it work,
fool the O2 sensor output? I tweaked the AFM one notch rich (CCW) to fix the
dreaded ping. What's the "Toyota Performance Handbook," and where can I get
one?
>> Those are kinna okay... the harden rubber... the plyurathane was worth
>> it and they don't wear out..or not supposed to =)
Poly bushings = many rattles and trips to the bathroom.
>> Hmmmmm a "scavaging effect" (sorry Toymodders) exhaust would work.
>> Basically go from the stock pipe. Ahhhhh... Check the back listings about
>> this ha ha or have one of the modders like measure their pipes for you =)
>> Actually just go from the exhaust and go backwards with "bigger" pipes
>> like from the stock 1 3/4 to a 1 3/4 inlet glasspack type muffler with a
>> two inch outlet backwards to maybe another 2" inlet glasspack with a 2 1/2
>> outlet and outwards... not every systems or set up needs a dual muffler
>> for maximum compression though... ahhh jus measure an HKS one =) Even the
>> HKS one looses some backpressure at RPM's about 7.5k =) Actually a lot =(
>> It just don't flow...
Interesting. Don't know much about exhaust systems, and I don't have any back
listings on the subject (and please don't send them to me, this CIS gateway is
kinda spensive). Suppose I'll do whatever they guys at American HMR say when I
bring it in for the new motor.
>> Actually it comes out... oh yes it does... and ya don't have to rewire
>> it... i'll go get my camera and steal a friends car to do it.. remind
>> me... ha ha ha (really do)
Really?? I just looked again. Maybe I'm stoopid, but I can't see a way to do
it without getting drastic.
>> Basically a TRD one looks like a stock one with more center holes. The
>> HKS one is like the one i have inmind althought it don't go farther then
>> 20 degress per side.. I think the 5Gzen one is the one i have in mind...
>> Actually convince the TRD guys to get the ones they use on their Formula
>> Atlantic ones =)
Which one is the most reliable and easy to deal with? Remember, I'm not trying
to win races, just looking for a bit more zap.
>> It can do like somewhere of upwards of 160mph plus with a 14.8 1/4
>> mile... Oh... with stock final drive gears that is =)
Damn.
>> The HKS flywheel or any other flywheel don't really work that well. It
>> rattles too much and i don't think is a good investment. Plus i cut my
>> flywheel like over a 100 times and its proably the same weight as a
>> lightened one and like stronger =) It don't rattle !
Think it's better to lighten the stock one, eh? Makes sense to me.
>> Like on my car it would be too stiff if i locked up the front end to
>> the firewall and cause me to spin out due to more oversteer !
I dunno about that. The more rigid the better, tune the car with the
suspension, not the frame flex...
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wilson Leung
Subject: Re: Toyota Performance Handbook (TPH)
To: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
> What's the "Toyota Performance Handbook," and where can I get one?
>
From: Wayne R. Graves
Subject: RE: Toyota Performace Handbook
I got my copy at Barnes And Noble in Salt Lake City, Utah two days ago.
It was their last copy. I hadn't seen it anywhere else, But Staceys is a
good book store, if they don't have it they will get it. Its Written by
Pat Braden, Published by Motorbooks international, ISBN 0-87938-320-8.
Wayne
This is a Bible for any Toyota Modder! Unfortunately, I'm still waiting
for my copy to come it. :( Thanks for the info, Wayne.
--
Phil
ez007002@renoir.ucdavis.edu
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 16:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Toyota Performance Handbook Source
Kevin,
The TPH is a bible of sorts for T-modders and does a nice job
of summarizing what can and can't be done to Toyotas with regards to
performance mods and upgrades. Its definitely not complete, lacks some (alot
of) details on procedures, and the suppliers list is WAY out of date. But its
a bloody good reference that you'll return to again and again.
A quick way to get a copy for a decent price ($17) is to contact:
Classic Motorbooks
P.O. Box / RT014
Osceola, WI 54020
(800) 826-660
These folks are THE SOURCE for automotive books and tapes. You should at least
call for a catalog since they also have stuff on handling, restoration,
rebuilding, racing, etc...
Clark
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 21:50:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: RE: Supertrapp and EFI Tuning...
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
On Tue, 12 Jul 1994 tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> First off... it IS possible to tune an efi system.
Yah... I'll find that mixture-adjustment-thingy when I have time.
> Secondly.... I belive your "sputering" is comming from too much of an open
> exhaust system with not enough backpressure. Adding more plates
> would help a little. My friend had a similiar exhaust which included a glasspack type muffler on his 1987 MR-2 Automatic.
DON'T tell me my exhaust is TOO open! :(
Would freeing up my intake make it all even out? (plus better HP of course)
> did you just change the muffler or the whole exhaust ? Sorry i haven't been
> following the postings =(
I had the exhaust "modified", meaning that the pipe comes off the
manifold and drops straight down (as per stock). Then, instead of
curving towards the cat', the pipe starts diagonally back towards the
stock muffler outlet in the rear valence. The muffler is at an angle,
and the tip comes out where it's "supposed to".
I must say, it sounds GREAT! And mid-range (3000-5000rpm) power is
greatly improved.
The backfiring is very minor, and is only an annoyance.....
I will be tuning my 4AGE up this weekend though...........
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: 13 Jul 94 03:48:12 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: Welcome Newbie !
>> Geeze Koji why make it so technical keep it simple *grin*... a
>> varible resistor (like a volume control knob). In this case a mixture
>> adjustment screw for the EFI.
Ya but...what kind, and what exactly does it hook to?
>> So what if you lose some torque on the bottom-end.
Ouch! LOSE low end power?? Not if I can help it. I'm trying to avoid
dropping the final drive ratio and driving it like a bike. I manage to keep it
above 4000 most of the time, but on my 86 (your 87 may be different), the 1-2
gear gap is pretty large, no way to avoid The Dead Zone around town. I know, I
know, re-gear the tranny and final drive...("Ring," said the cash register).
BTW, anyone have all the 1986 Corolla GTS gearing specs, by any chance?
Kevin (putting car back together, wondering why they put that bolt there mode)
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 02:59:01 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Performance systems.
tk>Ha ha ha after Fredo unsubs to the toyota mailing list
tk>-boggle- he quotes it =)
Hey...check again! I re-subbed to it just a few days ago!
tk>Dang..i don't even read my Toylist anymore... ha ha ha
tk>sorry Fred... had to metion this... =)
Yeah right!
Fredo
---
* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
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From: Craig Pugsley
Subject: Holley Pro-Jection price?
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 18:46:04 +1000 (EST)
Hi there,
Can anyone tell me how much a Holley Pro-Jection kit costs in the US
(Cost to the nearest $100 would be fine).
I also beleive the Pro-Jection is available in 2 and 4 barrel models.
Any info on these units would be most welcome,
Cheers,
Craig.
[pugsley@trl.oz.au]
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 22:49:26 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: LA Trip N E One ?!
>From SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM Tue Jul 12 06:07:10 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 8:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace >
Subject: RE: Cali - Vegas ?!?!?!
>>>>. . . . did somebody say Vegas??!!??
>>Yeppers... sure did.... Have to go visit Dada and all in Vegas.. drive around
>>"American Muscle cars for a week" and such ha ha ha
>Driving to Vegas, I just LOVE the Nevada Hwy Patrol!! I really miss the ol'
>gang at the Jean Justice County Court . . .
Woo woo past experiences ! =)
Can Any bunny say Road Trip =) Event maybe =)
>>>>Hey, on Aug 28th there having the next Battle of the Imports at LA County
>>>>Raceway . . anybody wanna go . . .we can all take a plate lunch :O
>>Woo woo ! Any Bunny we know entering ? I'm game... I think =)
>>If not i'll drive back obber ! =)
>I hear they'll be around 200 competitors and its quite a show. I'm playing
>host to some of my wife's friends from Japan the previous week, but plan on
>arranging things so that I can slip away to attend. Should be fun.
I'm comming to LA area on Fri - sat sun i think the 28th is a sunday
so i'll be there =) Dunno what i gonna drive but sure will be there !
Sheesh..didn';t know ya had a good oriental wife =) She cooks and all for ya
eh ? no wonder ya can spend so much money on ya car =P
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 22:52:06 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Stroker Kits...
>From 76334.3232@compuserve.com Tue Jul 12 06:38:11 1994
Date: 12 Jul 94 12:30:57 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: 4AGE Stroker Kits...
>> However ones going with the TRD Stroker and the other with the HKS
>> Will keep ya informed when they install it =) I think sadly the HKS one
>> will work better due to the better crank and also the metal head gaskets.
???
>I thought the TRD and HKS kits were the same thing? I also wonder how either
>one compares to the factory 5AGE crank and pistons? Can't get consistent
>answers to these burning questions, anyone know fer sure?
>From what i hear... the 5AGE mods aren't that great or important right now.
Got some parts in Japan... but thats in Japan....
I have a custom crank built to Toyota Specs... =) Maybe thats why my car
can redline into the 11k bandwidth =)
Hmmm as far as i can tell... one has forged pistons the other cast...
its preference really...
> Kevin
Roger should weally answer this one =)
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 22:56:35 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Koji does Vegas !??!
>From allanc@sydney.corp.sgi.com Tue Jul 12 08:07:33 1994
From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 11:04:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Welcome Newbie !
> Eh, Koji... I'll be back in Hawaii from the 9th to the 23rd of
>August... U like make wun Zippy's run *hahahahah*. I could probably join you
>in Vegas if I could get some set dates.
Leaving Hon on weds before... weekend planning to go to Cali somewhere..
Then back to vegas... fly home on the 31st...
ha ha thats my schedule... great eh ? =)
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 23:08:51 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Performance something... babble..
>From toyota-request@quack.kfu.com Tue Jul 12 20:07:10 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 22:50:17 -0700
From: "Kortbeek, Lloyd"
Subject: Performance Parts Address
To: The Toyota Mailing List
>>From what I received:
>Performance Products
>7658 Haskell Ave
>Van Nuys, CA 91406
>800-553-2840
Ummm this isnt the company >I< was thinking of...but what the heck...
the one i was thinking about was the one with the 200HP Geo Storm -boggle-
in the turbo Magazine...in which they talk more about the stereo but not
really... and not that much about the mods of the car... shoddy article..
Performance Systems Inc (PSI)
15808 Upper Boones Ferry Rd.
Dept SCC
Lake Oswego, Or 97035
(503) 598-0503
They claim to have a 400hp Mitsubushi Eclipse -yawn- not that impressive
to me... on a diamond star motors claim its not that grand...
but also "claim" "years of experince in racing (SCCA Pro-Rally and track
racing)" what ebber that means...
Also "street performance on everything from a twin turbo Mustang to a
very hot Acura NSX" -boggle that concept yet again-
>Phone for your catalogue. I don't have one yet so I don't know what they
>carry. I hear they are all performance parts for Toyota's - Landcruisers,
>4Runners, etc.
>I did not originate the post, but I figure I'll save whoever it was the
>typing.
Thanks...
>Lloyd Kortbeek
>'86 4Runner
>'78 Landcruiser
>4 wheel drive just means you get stuck worse
Allen T "Koji" Kam
'80 Corolla SR-5
Disclaimer: Warning, This car destroys anything above 4 inches...
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 23:10:54 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Holly Pro-Jection Pricing.. US
>From c.pugsley@trl.oz.au Tue Jul 12 22:44:53 1994
From: Craig Pugsley
Message-Id: <199407130846.AA15288@shiva.trl.OZ.AU>
Subject: Holley Pro-Jection price?
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 18:46:04 +1000 (EST)
>Hi there,
>Can anyone tell me how much a Holley Pro-Jection kit costs in the US
>(Cost to the nearest $100 would be fine).
>I also beleive the Pro-Jection is available in 2 and 4 barrel models.
>Any info on these units would be most welcome,
Try call Summit Racing... they have it i belive.. and proably deliver to ya
area also ! =)
>Cheers,
>Craig.
>[pugsley@trl.oz.au]
aloha
-koji
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 9:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: c.pugsley@trl.oz.au
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Holley Pro-Jection price?
>Hi there,
>Can anyone tell me how much a Holley Pro-Jection kit costs in the US
>(Cost to the nearest $100 would be fine).
Yep, something like $600 for the 2 barrel set-up, and that doesn't include the
mods you are going to have to make to your manifold
>I also beleive the Pro-Jection is available in 2 and 4 barrel models.
Unless you've got 400 in3 to feed, I'd forget about the 4-barrel set-up.
Clark
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From: derek_deeter@rainbow.mentorg.com (Derek Deeter)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 09:54:21 PDT
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Holley Pro-Jection price?
Got the Summit catalog right here... let's see -
Pro-jection flows 670 cfm, 325 HP rated - $538.95 to $595.95
Pro-jection-4 flows 900 cfm, 600 HP rated - $873.95
complete with throttle body, injectors, control unit, wiring harness,
fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pump.
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 07:13:48 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Bubbling...
Umm... went to visit my friend at Toyota yesterday...
Sorta neat things I learned....
They are brinning down Iron Man's Unlimited Vehicle...
with the full prep 18RG...
I will be there and will take pictures... =)
Just wanted to comment...
-koji
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 13:39:07 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
Cc: 76334.3232@compuserve.com
Kevin,
PAECO is, I guess you could say, high performance machine shop for
import car owners. They can do custom work, complete engines in 5
stages, and have parts for any kind of engine stuff. Plus shocks,
springs, roll cages, exhaust and stuff like that, but they are more
engine people. I'm about to send my second set of questions about the
4AGE motor they build. In stage 2 form, it produces, they say, 174 HP.
That's still a 1587cc engine. I will bore and stroke it if I get one.
Right now I'm questioning their dyno practices. Whether or not they
actually dyno the engine, and what stock components are replaced. They
told me a bored and stroked Stage 2 engine would be close to 200, lets
say 185. I don't see my stock fuel inj. keeping up. Anyone feel the
same. The HKS stage III turbo had bigger injectors, new PROM, and an
array of computers. This thing has nothing! Stock HP is 112.
Also, TRD, and The Toystore list cams that are EFI compatible. The
PAECO cams in the stage 2 engine are much more wild, but they say
it's the 11:1 compression that allows the cams to work with my stock
EFI. They also said in a letter to me they don't recomend stage 3 cams
with EFI, BUT they don't say this in the catalog. So there is some
doubt is to wether the engine will work with stock computer, ignition,
and fuel supply.
Correction: I think I mentioned not to but a clutch from ToyStore, I
meant to say Toysport. If Joel offers to make you a clutch, just say:
"Are you NUTS man!"
I don't have the PAECO number. Anyone know anyone who has bought an
engine from them?
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
>I don't have the PAECO number. Anyone know anyone who has bought an
>engine from them?
Umm, I seem to recall that somebody named Ben Reamed picked one up.
Clark
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: LA Trip N E One ?!
>>Driving to Vegas, I just LOVE the Nevada Hwy Patrol!! I really miss the ol'
>>gang at the Jean Justice County Court . . .
>Woo woo past experiences ! =)
Yeah, some of those kindly osifers sorta like to run folks off the road and
sight'm for illegal line changes. Lotsa fun . . .
>Can Any bunny say Road Trip =) Event maybe =)
"Road Trip" VEGAS == Cruise, then lose, then booze . . .
>>>>Hey, on Aug 28th there having the next Battle of the Imports at LA County
>>>>Raceway . . anybody wanna go . . .we can all take a plate lunch :O
>I'm comming to LA area on Fri - sat sun i think the 28th is a sunday
>so i'll be there =) Dunno what i gonna drive but sure will be there !
I gotta get some more details, pretty sure its the 28th. Anybody know who
sponsors these things?? We'll be doing Vegas (I think), Yosemite, then back
to LA all starting around the 19th.
>Sheesh..didn';t know ya had a good oriental wife =) She cooks and all for ya
>eh ? no wonder ya can spend so much money on ya car =P
Yep, combo platter - Japanese/Korean - wicked cute me thinks :P x 2!!
Like I said, I'll see what details I can find . . . ain't there any other
Kalifornia modders who know about this, or all they all asleep?? I thought
so.
Clark
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Date: 14 Jul 94 04:20:30 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
Mark Sink:
Thanks for the info on what PAECO does. Anyone got a number I can call for
some lit?
Is anyone keeping a 4AGE(C) database of some kind? It's arguably the coolest 4
cylinder Toyota ever made, or at least shipped to the US, and it's been around
for a while. Seems like there oughtta be a master file of the who, where,
what's and why's about the thing, so all us Corolla and MR2 drivers can stay in
synch about what works, and what doesn't.
I'd offer to make one, but I don't know ****. I'd offer to maintain one, but
I'm not organized enough, and my net access is currently limited to an extreme.
Any volunteers?
BTW, I REALLY hate saying stuff like this, but I would stay away from Toysport.
Kevin (got the ride running mode)
PS: Lesson for today: Break Free spray is the best penetrating oil known to
mankind. It also smokes like a mutha when the parts you put it on get real
hot. Very scary, till you figger out what's going on.
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Date: 14 Jul 94 04:20:37 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: 4AGEC Cylinder Head Removal, etc.
>> You bled the cooling system after the flush, right? Low coolant ->
>> overheat -> bad, but you think it was overheat -> bad -> loss of coolant?
Bled the cooling system? How to do? Can do on an MR2, but no screw on a
Corolla.
Anyway, it's old news now. An external leak in the head gasket reared it's
ugly head, just got done changing the damn thing (un-fun). Head was warped
ever-so-slightly, and the new factory gasket has more metal than the old one.
>> Yeah, rebuild the block :). The head gasket on my 20R came off really
>> clean. Top of the block just need's to be wiped off. I covered the top of
>> the block with 2" wide strips of cellophane tape to to make sure nothing
>> "dropped" into one of the passages though.
Oops, too late for that now. Between scraping the block and chipping the
carbon, some "stuff" inevitably got down in there. I filled it with dino oil
and put on a new filter, gonna replace both after 50 miles. New coolant shows
minor traces of the old exhaust leak, gonna pull the radiator and have it
rodded next week.
>> I wasn't clear, I was referring to a rebuild on the block. $225 sounds
>> good. What shop are you using??
Not the block, just the head. Sorry for the confusion. Instead of a re-man, I
just had it re-surfaced and tanked instead, $25 and some fresh coffee at a
local shop took care of that in two hours time.
>> Thicker gaskets (I hear) are the most straight-forward cure.
The Toyota gasket is an improved design over the installed one, and it looks a
bit thicker, too. Very little was taken off the head (.007), I should be OK (I
hope).
>> I'd do more research on headers. I'm not that impressed with the
>> Thorley header. I'm sold on SS mufflers, but then again I've had my
>> Celica for 16 years and I plan to be buried in it. I'd go easy on the
>> exhaust though. The bigger the better philosophy I think is flawed. Keep
>> your catalytic, its not as restrictive as folks claim, but does provide
>> some sound deadening as well as backpressure (also prevents back-firing by
>> cleaning up post deto. combustibles. You're absolutely right, you must
>> work the intake, head/block, and exhaust together to see real HP gains.
1000% agreement. What's an "SS" muffler? Having had a real up close and
personal look at the factory header, it ain't exactly restrictive. When the
time comes, I'll talk to the folks at RC Engineering and American HMR about
working with a slightly modded exhaust and intake, and see what's best in terms
of cams/cam timing and TB bore. Could be that less than 4mm works best, and
maybe they can come up with a conservative cam setup that balances the whole
thing out. Don't wanna kill what little (OK, ZERO) low-end power the engine
has out of the box.
>> You might consider poly urethane bushings and end-links on your
>> anti-roll bars. They don't promote a harsh ride and do provide a
>> noticeable improvement in handling. Stay away from poly urethane bushings
>> for the control arms though, unless of course you like pain . . .
Thanks for the thought. The TRD rubber bushing kit includes sway bar links,
I'll see how it goes. Someone else makes adjustable links that'll work with
the factory bars, a little less from the rear oughtta do it. One thing I know
about these old Toyota suspension designs is that they don't like a lot of sway
bar.
>> >Plan A: pull the head and have it completely rebuilt.
Cost-deferred. Expensive term for I'm broke.
>> >Plan B: pull the head, buy a straight edge, and check the surface for
>> warpage. >If warped, back to Plan A. If not warped, change the gasket and
>> write off the >major hassle as a learning experience.
>> If its ok, I would still get it cleaned up and the valves and seats
>> ground. You might think about replacing the valve guides, but since you
>> didn't do a compression test, its hard to tell whether or not this is
>> actually necessary.
Major hassle and learning experience is in progress. I had the head tanked and
vacuum tested locally, needed a *slight* resurfacing (did I already say that?)
and it otherwise checked out OK. Should hold out OK 'till I pull the whole
motor later in the year (pray with me, brutha). Carbon factor looked real good
for 100K, though one cam bearing and cam journal was a bit scored.
Thanks again. This list is cool. I like stuff that's cool. I don't like
stuff that sucks. Guess I need a turbo kit.
Kevin
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Date: 14 Jul 94 04:41:59 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: RE: LA Trip N E One ?!
>> Like I said, I'll see what details I can find . . . ain't there any
>> other Kalifornia modders who know about this, or all they all asleep?? I
>> thought so.
Zzzzzz.
What (exactly) is happening on August 28??
Drive to Vegas? Me? No, I have a pilot's license, I fly or don't go. If I
have the money to fly then I have the money to lose. If it's a drive I need,
lots of opportunity for that a whole lot closer to home. Long drives are for
trout fishing, none of that near Vegas. But Tahoe, well that's different...
Who around here can fill me in on what's happening at Sagus?
Kevin
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 08:16:57 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
> From SAVE@CPVA.SAIC.COM Wed Jul 13 18:00:19 1994
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 14:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Clark Wallace
> To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
> Subject: Re: MR2 Mods
> Content-Length: 166
>
> >I don't have the PAECO number. Anyone know anyone who has bought an
> >engine from them?
>
> Umm, I seem to recall that somebody named Ben Reamed picked one up.
>
> Clark
>
Why do you say that?
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 9:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: MR2 Mods -> PAECO
>>>I don't have the PAECO number. Anyone know anyone who has bought an
>>>engine from them?
>>
>> Umm, I seem to recall that somebody named Ben Reamed picked one up.
>>
>> Clark
>>
>
>Why do you say that?
Where you been Mark?? . . Check the archives for several of Chris M's posts
regarding PAECO. Bottomline is that PAECO seems to take its customers to the
cleaners when it comes to cost. (Notice I didn't say quality). If _cost_
is not a factor, then PAECO is probably an option worth considering.
However, for most of us, cost is a big factor in the performance equation.
For example, Fast Freddies beats their prices on Webers by around 30%. The
ADDCO sway bars they sell are $100 more than what J C Whitney charges, their
after market catalytics can be had for 1/3 the price elsewhere, their
_reground_ cams run between $140 to $180 (but add another $120 if you don't
have a core), their shipping prices are twice the going rate . . . Get the
picture?
Also, the tech help, from my experience, isn't exactly what I'd call out-
standing. All I got concerning their rebuild kits were "Yeah, they're good".
Sorry, but if I'm going to pay that kind of money I need a little more than
that.
Maybe you've been more successful? I'd like to hear about it.
Clark
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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 9:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGEC Cylinder Head Removal, etc.
Kevin wrote:
>Bled the cooling system? How to do? Can do on an MR2, but no screw on a
>Corolla.
You tell me, you got the manuals :/
>Anyway, it's old news now. An external leak in the head gasket reared it's
>ugly head, just got done changing the damn thing (un-fun).
Yeah, but where else can you get that ripping "grease under the fingernails"
satisfaction!!!?? Glad to hear I'm not the only one who seems to curse my
way through these wrenching activities (pun intended).
>Oops, too late for that now. Between scraping the block and chipping the
>carbon, some "stuff" inevitably got down in there. I filled it with dino oil
>and put on a new filter, gonna replace both after 50 miles. New coolant
>shows minor traces of the old exhaust leak, gonna pull the radiator and have
>it rodded next week.
Let me know where you get your radiator taken care of. I want to get mine
refurbished and restored, but haven't pick a So. Cal. shop yet. I WILL
remind you if you forget . . .
>What's an "SS" muffler?
Stainless steel.
>Having had a real up close and personal look at the factory header, it ain't
>exactly restrictive.
The OEM 20R exhaust manifold makes a great boat anchor.
>One thing I know about these old Toyota suspension designs is that they don't
>like a lot of sway bar.
Tell me more. The high CG on my Celica makes roll bars an attractive
alternative to lowering the car. You had a Celica (82 or 83), is your comment
based on your experiences with that car??
>Cost-deferred. Expensive term for I'm broke.
How is this possible, you live in California :)
>Thanks again. This list is cool. I like stuff that's cool. I don't like
>stuff that sucks. Guess I need a turbo kit.
Turbos, ummmm. My younger bro told me about some Turbo mag which I'm going
to see if I can find on the newsstands. I'd be interested to find out if
anybody still produces turbo kits for my antique. A college buddy had a '77
Celica which was turbo'd and, from what I recall, it was pretty impressive on
the street. Can you say, "getting side-tracked again"??
Time to shit of get off the pot . . .
Clark
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 13:57:33 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: My MR2 needs help breathing.....
To: Toyota Mods Mailing List
Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List
Two questions for the MR2-know-it-alls:
1. EGR...
...I want to disable my EGR (no laws here :) using the old BB-shot-plug
trick. However, I looked at my EGR regulator and it has 4 hoses running
to/from it (1 from the bottom, 2 from the front, 1 from the rear). WHICH
ONE do I PLUG??? _ALL_ of them?!? I'm confused.......
2. Intake...
...I want better intake flow. Is it better to modify a cylindrical K&N
filter to fit my air flow meter intake (there's <6" between the air flow
meter intake and the strut tower)...
...OR is it better to keep all of the existing intake "plumbing" and go
with a K&N designed for my 4AGE?
My intuition tells me that the cylindrical setup would add more breathing
capacity, because it would streamline the system. However... is it the
case that the tubing, which appears to be excessive, actually HELPS the
car breathe better???
Sheesh! Now I've done the exhaust, there's so many other things left to do.
I suppose it will never end..............
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 14 Jul 94 15:59:31 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: 4AGEC Cylinder Head Removal, etc.
>> Yeah, but where else can you get that ripping "grease under the
>> fingernails" satisfaction!!!??
You mean, that ripping skin and grease under the flesh feeling? Indeed, where
else. Gotta admit though, doing something so big yourself and having it run
better than before is pretty rewarding. Plus, I saved some big bucks.
Strange but true story: I got it all back together, hit the key and no startee.
Checked the cam timing (again), made sure the dist was in the right place (it
seemed to be), and tried it again. Just barely running with the throttle
pegged, so I cranked the dist every which way until it ran a little faster.
Pulled dist, checked the marks, repeated process for about an hour. Finally
figured that since it runs less worse fully CCW, I'd slip the gear one notch.
Ran good. Set the timing by ear, ignoring the marks I made, then went to the
dealer and had a tech put a light on it (I don't have a light, and they do
little stuff like this for me for free). Spot bloody on PERFECT! I doan need
no steenkeen timing light.
>> Let me know where you get your radiator taken care of.
Will do.
>> Tell me more. The high CG on my Celica makes roll bars an attractive
>> alternative to lowering the car. You had a Celica (82 or 83), is your
>> comment based on your experiences with that car??
Lower the car! When I did the springs on the Celica, Toy Store told me how
removing the rear bar makes it handle faster. He was right, but it also makes
it less fun to drive. Same deal with my Corolla, removing the bar lets me
brake into curve and get on the gas harder in tight corners, but kinda makes it
understeer. Still, I'd bet the pink slip that I could turn a faster lap
without it, if I were into that sort of thing. Adjustable links for the stock
bar(s) are coming soon.
The theory, as it was sorta splained to me years ago is that the
tension-rod/struts up front, combined with straight axle in back, means that
the car has a somewhat diagnol roll axis (axii?). 1970's technology, you know.
The outside front corner of the car wants to dive down real bad. A rear bar
can only lift the inside rear, reducing its traction in the best case, pulling
it off the ground at the extreme (and around and around you go). A front bar
reduces roll, but if you get it too firm without stiffing up everything else,
all it'll do is reduce traction much the same way. Best setup is to control
the body with appropriate shocks and springs, and use small sway bars for
tuning.
Anyway, that's how it was put to me, maybe someone around here can expand or
correct. All I know for sure is that stiff bars aren't the hot tip for these
cars.
>> How is this possible, you live in California :)
He he he...groan.
I was just kidding about the turbo, I don't like aftermarket blowers. The
engine was built to suck, not blow. Better to make it suck more than to blow
at all. HKS used to make a kit for my engine, but they did a lot more harm
than good, I'm told.
Kevin (ride running well, how'd I do that? mode)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: garyg@cup.hp.com
Subject: Re: My MR2 needs help breathing.....
To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca (Darin Ray Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 13:38:03 PDT
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com, mr2-interest@validgh.com
Darin Hamilton wrote:
>...I want to disable my EGR (no laws here :) using the old BB-shot-plug
>trick. However, I looked at my EGR regulator and it has 4 hoses running
>to/from it (1 from the bottom, 2 from the front, 1 from the rear). WHICH
>ONE do I PLUG??? _ALL_ of them?!? I'm confused.......
Excuse me Darin, but I also happen to live on this planet. Please don't make
things worse for my kids and I by disabling that valve. It will not gain you
any performance, since it is open only at part throttle cruise.
Please excuse non-toyota chatter
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 14 Jul 94 18:17:16 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: My MR2 needs help breathing.....
>> 1. EGR... ...I want to disable my EGR (no laws here :) using the old
>> BB-shot-plug trick. However, I looked at my EGR regulator and it has 4
>> hoses running to/from it (1 from the bottom, 2 from the front, 1 from the
>> rear). WHICH ONE do I PLUG??? _ALL_ of them?!? I'm confused.......
The signle line, between the plastic valve and "T" fitting. Like someone else
said, it doesn't do anything for full-throttle performance, but it does help
part-throttle response. I'll leave it to your conscience to decide how large a
footprint you wish to leave on the planet.
>> 2. Intake... ...I want better intake flow. Is it better to modify a
>> cylindrical K&N filter to fit my air flow meter intake (there's <6"
>> between the air flow meter intake and the strut tower)... ...OR is it
>> better to keep all of the existing intake "plumbing" and go with a K&N
>> designed for my 4AGE?
Couldn't say fer sure, depends on the car, and I don't have an MR2. The cone
deals usually work better, but if your engine bay stays hot while moving (which
it just might, being where it's located and all), and if the stock plumbing
picks up cooler air than a cone would be able to, go with the cartridge. If
all else is stock or close to it, I seriously doubt if the factory plumbing (or
lack thereof) will make a difference. If you'll be building it into a 175hp
5AGE though, that's a different story.
>> I suppose it will never end..............
He he. And you thought it would?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 8:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Toy-Mods Supplier/Pubs List
Toy-Mods Suppliers and Publications List.
- Currently a Work-in-Progress so some info is missing.
- Send comments, revisions, complaints, & additions to SAVE@cpva.saic.com
- BTW, having one of your helpful quotes included as a comment is considered
to be really kewl.
Last Revised: 7/14/94
________________________________________________________________________________
_N_E_W_P_A_R_T_S_
Brown's Toyota City
7167 Ritchie Hwy
Glen Burnie, MD 21061
(800) 848-4451
Genuine Toyota Parts.
Lou Fusz Toyota
10725 Manchester Rd
St. Louis, Missouri 63122
(800) 325-9581
Toyota parts only, no more TRD and HKS.
Price Toyota Newark
1344 Marrows Rd
Newark, DE 19711
(800) 537-4510
Genuine Toyota Parts.
Russell Toyota Parts
6700 Baltimore National Pike
Baltimore, MD 21228
(800) 638-8401
Talk to Howard.
_U_S_E_D__P_A_R_T_S__&__S_A_L_V_A_G_E__Y_A_R_D_S_
Tallant Brothers
4695 Oak Grove Circle
Cumming, GA 30130
(800) 635-0351 / (404) 887-5214
Toyota/Honda/Nissan Salvage. Ship big and small parts. Specialize in late
models - 90's and up. Not self-service. Seem like nice, helpful folks.
Owners are Jimmy or Greg.
Toyota Truck & Auto Recycling
3636 Omac Circle
Rancho Cordova, CA 95742
(800) 765-7100
Late models - 79 and up, ship nationwide, big and small parts. Talk to Al.
The Toyota Connection
2620 W. Capital Ave
West Sacramento, CA
(800) 221-8696 / (916) 371-7764
Talk to Ryan. Some parts require an exchange.
Toyotas Only
11540 Hart St
N. Hollywood, CA 91605
(818) 765-0322 / (818) 765-0323
Seemed high priced, and not too helpful either.
D & T Used Parts
8970 Bradley Ave
Sun Valley, CA
(818) 768-4666
Datsuns and Toyotas. Good prices, helpful (79-80 Supra rear-ends for $150 US)
Lexington, Ky
(606) 233-1173
_P_U_B_L_I_C_A_T_I_O_N_S__&__B_O_O_K_S_
"Bodywork and Painting"
Peterson Publishing Co.
6420 Wilshire Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90048-5515
(213) 782-2280
Tools, techniques, and tips.
Cars and Car Conversions
$5.25 CDN (1993)
Monthly magazine covering a spectrum of topics including Formula 1
aerodynamics, do it yourself head porting mods, timing, and aftermarket EFI.
Classic Motorbooks
P.O. Box / RT014
Osceola, WI 54020
(800) 826-6600
THE SOURCE for automotive books and tapes, including the Toyota
Performance Handbook. Free catalog.
"How to Keep Your Toyota Pickup Alive" by Larry Owens
John Muir Publications
1975-1987 2 & 4WDs
"How to Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn
Available from Classic Motorbooks.
$14.95 US
Describes how the pros improve handling, safety, and performance. Tells how
to check chassis, suspension, and alignment set-up.
Grassroots Motorsports
P.O Box 5907, Daytona Beach, FL 32118
Online compsurve address is: 72123,2625
$3.95 US, $4.95 CDN
Monthly magazine whose main subject is auto-crossing.
"Paint and Body Handbook" by Don Taylor and Larry Hofer
HP Books
P.O. Box 5367, Tucson, AZ 85703
(602) 888-2150
Tools, techniques, and tips on auto body repair work and painting.
Robert Bentley, Inc.
1000 Massachusetts Ave, Cambridge, MA 02138
(800) 423-4595
Early model Toyota repair manuals.
"Toyota Performance Handbook" by Pat Braden
Motorbooks International Publishers & Wholesalers
1990, ISBN 0-87938-320-8 (160pp, B&W photos)
$18.95 US
How to choose, install, tune, and maintain performance equipment for your
Toyota. "I felt that this book was more inclined towards mechanical stuff and
didn't say much about electrical stuff available (ie. aftermarket computers,
etc) although some of this is quite new". - Fred "I Need a New Set of Wheels"
Oberbuchner
Toyota Service Publications
P.O. Box 2991
Torrance, CA 90509-2991
(800) 443-7656 (CA) / (800) 622-2033
Official Toyota service manuals. Get'm, read'm, use'm.
Turbo & Hi-Tech Performance
9952 Hamilton Avenue, Huntington Beach, CA 92646
(714) 962-7795 / (714)965-2268 FAX
$3.95 US, $4.50 CDN
Monthly magazine featuring turbos and electronics. "This magazine seems to
have good coverage of turbo applications and also covers issues such as
electronics/EFI/computers, etc. Excellent coverage and advertising for parts
for overseas imports. Good balance between expert techies and lay-people". -
Fred "I _Really_ Need a New Set of Wheels" Oberbuchner
_P_E_R_F_O_R_M_A_N_C_E__P_A_R_T_S__S_U_P_P_L_I_E_R_S_
AEM (Advanced Engine Management)
15606 Broadway Center
Gardena, CA 90248
(310) 327-9336 / (310) 327-8520 FAX
Mikuni, Weber, Isky, Electromotive, MSD, Motec, Accel, Bosch, EFI
components, HKS, TRD, etc. Extremely helpful and informed folks. Talk to
Steve.
Adaptive Technologies
127 North Ventura Rd, Port Hueneme, CA 93041
(805) 488-8832 / (805) 488-4890 FAX
"Make something called a PromPaq which is an on the fly adjustable box similar
to the key selector on the 87 Corvettes where you have a sport and a normal
computer setting" - Koji "Plate Lunch" Kam.
Chris Myer Racing (CMR)
Speed Racer Circle
Palm Bay, FL 32907
cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com
Simply the best kick-ass performance stuff available at unbeatable prices.
Forget the rest, accept no substitutes.
Custom Parts
2400 South May Ave., Oklahoma City, OK 73108
(800) 864-4790
Carry the top names in motor accessories
Dick Hoss Racing
2901 N.W. 106th Ave, Coral Springs, FL 33065
Suppliers of HKS and other turbo kits.
Dobi
(714) 529-1977
Exhausts, ignition components, KYB inserts, suspensions, aero-components.
Apparently have relatively good prices.
Downey Offroad
10001 S. Pioneer Blvd, Sante Fe Springs, CA 90670
(310) 949-9494
Toyota 4WD specialists.
Earl Motorsports
England
0625-43377346
Performance parts and accessories. Inexpensive cams for Toyotas (like
the 4AGE). Talk to Gary.
Fast Freddy's
2604 S. Harbor, Santa Ana, CA 92704
(714) 540-3801
Generic performance shop. Claims to be the "King of Webers". Talk to Roger
or John.
GReddy Performance Products
15-B Masine , Irvine, CA 92718 or
238 South Main St, South Hackensack, NJ 07606
(800) GREDDY2 / (714) 588-8300 / (714) 588-6318 FAX
Part of the Trust Company(Japan). Intercoolers and intercooler kits, induction
systems, strut tower braces, progressive rate springs, adjustable shocks, turbo
upgrade kits, stainless steel lines, stainless steel headers, turbos, waste-
gates, injection systems, "ultra" high-performance exhaust systems, complete
turbo systems for normally aspirated vehicles, turbo timers with stop watches.
HKS
20312 Gramercy Place, Torrance, CA 90501
(310) 328-8100 / (310) 618-6911 FAX
High performance parts for Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan, Acura, and
Honda. Catalogs $6.00.
HALTECH
2158 W. Northwest Hwy #400, Dallas, TX 75220
(214) 831-9800 / (214) 831-9802
Engine management systems. Programmable fuel injection. Generic EFI system
($1500) with no airflow meter for the Corolla.
Han Motoring Accessories
Main Head Quarters, 2034 Valley Blvd, Alhambra, CA 91803
(818) 281-9273 / (818) 281-2152 FAX
Uhhhh . . . motoring accessories.
Horgen Engineering
6454 SE Monroe, Milwaukee, OR 97222
(503) 654-25295
Borla, HKS, K&N, Extrudehone, G-Force, Centerforce.
J.C. Whitney
1917-19 Archer Ave, P.O. Box 8410, Chicago, IL 60680
(312) 431-6102 / (312) 431-5625 FAX
You'll have to separate the wheat from the chafe, but they do have some REAL
bargains. ADDCO sway bars, ThermoTec header tape, Borla mufflers, etc.
Free catalog.
J & M Speed Center
3230 Motor Circle Dr, Riverside, CA 92504
(909) 688-7110
Performance parts shop (Offenhauser, Doug Thorley) with GREAT prices. Talk to
Phil, Dennis.
Jackson Autosport
Manitoba, Canada
(204) 235-1123
Generic performance shop. Good prices on K&N air filters.
Jim Cook Racing (JCR)
5450 Katella Ave #107, Los Alamitos, CA 90720
(310) 431-4605 / (310) 430-1402
Toyota (also Honda/Mazda/Nissan) performance accessories, aero kits, exhausts,
cams, headers, turbos, V8 conversions (Nissan), pistons, turbos, suspensions,
springs, shocks (Tokico). Catalogs $6. Talk to Kevin.
King Motorsports
Sullivan, WI
Mugen, Stromung, HKS, Trust exhausts. DC Fabrication headers. Some folks
recommend against purchasing their rebuilt parts (like heads).
KMA Racing
1250 N. King Street, Honolulu, HI 96817
(808) 841-2747
Suppliers of performance parts and accessories from Japan such as Sprinter tail
lights for the Corolla GTS's and GEB adjustable universal strut tower bars for
ANY car. Contact Scott Kanemura or Kevin Yamasaki. Scott has worked for
both TRD and HKS. Mention you know Koji Kam and they'll hang up ya!
L.C. Engineering
2978 First St. Unit G, La Verne, CA 91750
(714) 596-5494
20R, 22R and 22RE performance parts and engines. Focus is Toyota trucks, but
most parts are applicable to comparably equipped Celicas. Pricey. Catalogs
$5.00. Talk to Randy.
Northwest Off-Road
1999 Iowa St., Bellingham, WA 98226-4788
(206) 676-1200 / (206) 676-5401 FAX
Performance parts and accessories for Toyota trucks. Tons of stuff - Mikuni,
Holley, Offenhauser, Doug Thorley headers, cams, suspensions, lights, exhaust
systems. Catalogs $5.00. Talk to Jeff.
Options Auto Salon
4523 San Fernando Rd, Ste I, Glendale, CA 91204
(800) 678-2886 Order / (818) 545-8218 Tech / (818) 545-8651 FAX
Accessories and performance products for Japanese Imports. Trust, GAB,
Neuspeed, Car Mate and on and on and on . . . Catalogs $5.00.
Pacific
5882 Machine Drive, Huntington Beach, CA 92649
(714) 891-3669
Ground effect kits, rear spoilers, fender trim, headlight covers, blackout kits,
custom wheels, suspension packages, and more!!! Free catalog.
PAECO Import Parts
2400 Mountain Dr, Birmingham, AL 35226
(800) 326-6401 / (205) 823-7278
Wide variety of parts and services for imported cars. Just about anything you
need if you're willing to pay the price. "I love their stuff" - Ben Reamed.
Free catalog.
Paisley Automotive
302 Main St, Hempstead, NY 11550
(516) 481-2815 Order
(516) 481-4526 Serv / (516) 292-2341 FAX
HKS, Trust, Redline synthetics, NOS, Extrudehone Powerflow systems,
GReddy, C's (short throw shifters supposed to be decent).
Performance Products
7658 Haskell Ave, Van Nuys, CA 91406
(800) 553-2840
Accessories and performance parts for Toyota trucks, Land Cruisers, 4-Runners
and T100s. Catalogs $5.00
Performance Systems Inc (PSI)
15808 Upper Boones Ferry Rd., Lake Oswego, OR 97035
(503) 598-0503
Anybody, anybody . . . .?
R S Akimoto
Upland, CA
(909) 958-2383 / (909) 958-0062 FAX
Bolt on stuff for Hondas, Acuras, and Toyotas. Air filters, intake runners,
SS cat-back exhausts, mufflers, VTEC controllers, brake pads, brakes systems,
intercoolers, boost controllers. No catalogs yet. Talk to Rich.
Sarizer Motor Company (formerly the Toy Store East)
453 Van Houten Ave, Passaic, NJ 07055
(201) 473-2446 / (201) 473-2570 FAX
Complete line of performance parts for your Toyota. Cover Craft, HKS, ANSA,
Weds Wheels, Tokico, Suspension Techniques, TRD, Doug Thorley. Free
catalog. Talk to John.
Select Sales
5411 N.W. 72 Ave, Miami, FL 33166
(305) 888-2828
Complete line of performance parts for Toyotas including big valve heads for the
4AGE, Weber/Mikuni carbs, Wiseco pistons. Excellent prices.
Summit Racing Equipment
P.O. Box 909, Akron, OH 44309
(216) 630-0200 Order / (216) 630-0240 Tech
Huge performance parts and accessories supplier - American and foreign.
Catalogs $4.00.
TA Performance
(201) 773-4200
Carry Trust & other performance parts.
Team Toysport America, LTD
1547 W. El Segundo Blvd., Gardena, CA 90249
(213) 755-1177 / (213) 755-1176 FAX
Turbo & twin cam specialists, sports tuning, service, and fabrication. Carry a
wide variety of performance parts and accessories.
Toy Store
3230 Polaris #14, Las Vegas, NV 89102
(702) 251-9923 / (702) 251-5935 FAX
Suppliers of various performance and cosmetic parts for Toyotas. Free catalog
Toyota Racing Development (TRD USA)
18240 S Western Ave, Gardena, CA 90248
(310) 532-1232 / (310) 532-3973 FAX
Cams, pistons, plug wires, suspension components, LSDs, springs, brake pads,
headers, clutches.
Toyota Racing Development (TRD Japan)
800 Morooka-machi, Kohoku-ku, Yokahama 222 Japan
81-45-543-5639 / 81-45-543-8623 FAX
Contact: T. ISHIBASHI
Trans-Dapt
9599 West Jefferson Blvd, Culver City, CA 90232
(310) 839-7581
Carb adapters (for carb upgrades), air filters, breathers, oil filter
relocation kits, spark plug wire dividers, in-line fuel filters, wheel adapters,
Hedman headers (not smog legal). Catalogs $4.00. Ask for Brian.
TRS USA
7901 Ethel Ave., N. Hollywood, CA 91605
(818) 765-5542 / (818) 764-1051 FAX
Suppliers of Corolla & Starlet parts (4AG & 3-4-5K). TRS coilover kits, TRD
hard bushings, European body parts, LSD 5.1 & 5.38 gears, TRD springs &
shocks, Euro headers & exhausts, TRS metallic clutch discs, 6x14 aluminium
wheels, and T50 & K50 C-R gear sets.
Turbonetics Inc.
650 Flinn Ave, Moonpark, CA 93021
(805) 529-8995
Carry upgraded eproms for the PFC F-Con. Known to work on Supra Turbo's.
Turbo Performance Center (TPC)
7423 Ritchie Hwy, Glen Burnie, MD 21061
(410) 766-5216
Carry high performance and related stuff such as Extrudehone, CARTECH,
Suspension Techniques, Vortech, HKS). Should have parts for the Japan super
cars such as the 3000GT, RX7 Turbo II, 300ZX, and Supra.
_C_A_M_S_
Crane Cams
530 Fentress Blvd, Daytona Beach, FL 32114
(904) 258-6174
Cams, cams, cams. Tech line is tough to get through on, but keep trying.
Garretson Enterprises
1932 Old Middlefield Way, Mountain View, CA 94087
Performance cams.
Isky Cams
16020 S. Broadway Box 30, Gardena, CA 90247-9990
(213) 770-0930 / (310) 515-5730
Cams and springs.
Web Cam
1815 Massachusetts Ave, Riverside, CA 92507
(909) 369-5144 / (909) 369-7266 FAX
Performance camshafts.
_C_A_R_B_S_
Holley
P.O. Box 10360, Bowling Green, KY 42101
(900) 773-7300 - 89 cents a minute info line.
Carbs and pro-jection sytems.
Mikuni
8910 Mikuni Ave, Northridge, CA 91324-3496
(818) 885-1242 / (818) 993-7388
Simply the best (so they say). Ask Chris M. what he'd pass up for a dual 44
side-draft. Free catalog.
Weber
Anybody, anybody . . .?
_C_A_T_A_L_Y_T_I_C__C_O_N_V_E_R_T_E_R_S_
Perfection Automotive Products Corp.
31623 Industrial Dr, Livonie, MI 48150
(800) 468-4970 Tech / (800) 521-5575 Serv
After market catalytic converters for most cars. Talk to Paul or Terry. They
can give you applications info and locate the nearest supplier.
Tested Products Inc.
24540 Capitol Ave, Redford Township, MI 48239
(800) 327-6481 / (313) 533-2833
America's largest re-manufacturer of catalytic converters.
_D_R_I_V_E_T_R_A_I_N_
CRE
RT. 122 Worcester Rd., Barre, MA 01005
(508) 355-2864
They make limited slip differentials for the more popular cars. They will even
make one if you send them an old diff. Costs between $500 to $550.
Kennedy Engineered Products
38830 17th East, Palmdale, CA 93550
(805) 272-1147
Suppliers of bellhousing, transmission, and drive shaft adapters. Manufacture an
adapter plate for mounting the bellhousing of a VW/Porsche gear box to a
S-GTE block. They also do custom applications.
_E_X_H_A_U_S_T_S_
Borla Performance Industries
5901 Edison Ave, Oxnard, CA 93033
(805) 986-8600 / (805) 986-8999 FAX
T304 Stainless Steel headers, exhaust systems, turbo and hemi mufflers, and
exhaust tips. Talk to Ed.
Doug Thorley
1561 Commerce St, Corona, CA 91720
(909) 735-7280
Tri-Y headers. Talk to Tom.
Flowmaster
(800) 544-4761
Mufflers (glasspacks). Talk to Bob
Hedman Headers
9599 West Jefferson Blvd, Culver City, CA 90231
Headers with no smog fittings.
Hooker Headers
1024 W. Brooks St., Ontario, CA 91762
Headers.
S & S Headers
Los Angeles, CA
They apparently manufacture headers for some of the larger suppliers such as
Jackson Racing.
SuperTrapp
3910 Seaport Blvd, West Sacramento, CA 95691
(916) 372-5000
"If it doesn't say SuperTrapp, then it isn't" - unknown. Catalogs $3.00.
_F_I_L_T_E_R_S_
K & N Engineering
P.O. Box 1329, Riverside, CA 92502
(800) 858-3333
Million mile air and oil filters. Catalogs $3.00.
System One
6080 Leonard Noell Dr., Tulare, CA 93274
(209) 687-1955
Performance oil filters.
_I_N_T_A_K_E__M_A_N_I_F_O_L_D_S_
Cannon
Intake manifolds.
Edlebrock
2700 California St, Torrance, CA 90503
Intake manifolds, cams, carbs, headers, exhaust systems, mufflers, heads, and
air cleaners. Catalogs $3.00
Offenhauser
5300 Alhambra Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90032
(213) 225-1307
"Dual Plenum" intake manifolds for carb'd Toyota engines - pure hype if you ask
me. (talk to Vince)
_P_I_S_T_O_N_S_/ _R_O_D_S_/_C_R_A_N_K_S_
Arias
Carrillo
Rods.
Childs & Albert Performance Products
24849 Anza Dr, Valencia, CA 91355
(805) 295-1900 / (805) 295-1905
Rods and zero gap piston rings. Catalogs $5.00.
Cosworth Engine Components
23205 Early Ave, Torrance, CA 90505
Custom racing pistons.
JE Pistons
15681 Computer Ln, Huntington Beach, CA 92649
(714) 898-9763
Custom performance pistons.
PROBE Industries
42257 6th St West-307, Lancaster, CA 93534
(805) 945-3363 / (805) 945-4703 FAX
Custom performance pistons and rods. Free catalog.
WISECO
7201 Industrial Park Blvd, Mentor, OH 44060-5396
(216) 951-6600
Forged pistons, lots of applications. Could they be the source for TRD???
_S_U_S_P_E_N_S_I_O_N_
ADDCO
700 East St, Lake Park, FL 33403
(800) 338-7015 / (407) 842-6102
High performance sway bars. They make them for the cops, so they must be
good. You can get ADDCO bars from J.C. Whitney for half the price ADDCO
charges. Free catalog.
Bilstein Corporation of America
8845 Rehco, San Diego, CA 92121
(619) 453-7723
Gas pressure shocks.
Carrera Racing Shocks
5412 New Peachtree Rd, Atlanta, GA 30341
(404) 451-8811 Tech / (800) 722-3448 Order / (404) 451-8086 FAX
Shocks and springs. Claim they wrote the book on coil overs. Offer good spring
and weight ratios. Ask for their booklet.
Eibach Springs
15311 Barranca Pkwy, Irvine, CA 92718
(714) 727-3700
Springs (progressive-rate), bushings, anti-sway bars. Nothing until '82 for
Celicas.
Energy Suspension
960 Calle Amanecer, San Clemente, CA 92672
(714) 361-3935 / (714) 361-3940 FAX
Performance polyurethane components. Catalogs $5.00
Koni America, Inc.
8085 Production Ave, Florence, KY 41042
(606) 727-5038
4-position adjustable high pressure shocks.
KYB Corporation of America
901 Oak Creek Dr, Lombard, IL 60148
Shocks.
Suspension Spring Specialists
P.O. Box 145, Bremen, IN 46506
(800) 323-7419 / (219) 546-4725 FAX
"Blue Coil" springs. Do not carry Toyota-specific springs, but if you know what
rate/height you need, they might have something that will work. Also, offer
custom springs.
Suspension Techniques
13546 Vintage Pl, Chino, CA 91710
Suspension kits, springs, bushings, anit-roll bars, and shocks.
Suspension Technologies
1853 Belcroft Ave, South El Monte, CA 91733
(909) 465-1020
Springs and suspension parts.
Tokico USA, Inc.
1330 Storm Parkway, Torrance, CA 90501-5041
(310) 534-4934
Performance gas shock absorbers, truck shocks, five position externally
adjustable Illuminas, electronic Illuminas. Free brochure.
_T_O_O_L_S_/_R_E_S_T_O_R_A_T_I_O_N_/_S_T_U_F_F_
The Eastwood Co.
580 Lancaster Ave., Box 3014, Malvern, PA 19355-0714
(800) 345-1178
Restoration supplies. Free catalog. Talk to Kevin.
Griot's Garage
3500-A 20th St E., Tacoma, WA 98424
(800) 345-5789
Products for you garage (top end stuff). Free catalog.
Northern
P.O. Box 1499, Burnsville, MN 55337-0499
(800) 533-5545 / (612) 894-0083
Tools and restoration supplies. Free catalog.
OTC Tools & Equipment Division
655 Eisenhowser Dr., Owatonna, MN 55060
(507) 455-7050 / (800) 283-8665
Source of Toyota SST's.
PIVCO
1801 N. Green River Rd., Evansville, IN 47715
(812) 479-3525
Automotive restoration supplies. Free catalog.
_T_U_R_B_O_S_
IFG Turbo Systems Inc.
15740 El Prado Rd, Chino, CA 91710
(909) 597-4110 / (909) 597-7183 FAX
Bolt on turbo kits (not sure if they carry for Toyotas).
Spearco
14664 Titus St, Panorama City, CA 91402
(818) 901-7851 / (818) 785-4362 FAX
Intercoolers and stuff.
MISC
A & A Specialties
220 E. Santa Fe Ave, Placentia, CA 92670-5631
(714) 993-6770
Race car bodies.
Aurora Bearing Company
970 S. Lake St., Aurora, IL 60506
(708) 859-2030 / (708) 859-0971
Specially designed rod ends and linkages. Talk to John McCory.
AutoThority
3769-B Pickett Rd, Fairfax, VA 22031
(703) 323-0919 / (703) 323-7325
Performance chips.
Electromotive Inc.
14004-J Willard Rd, Chantilly, VA 22021
(703) 378-2444 / (800) 843-3889
Many accessories for ignition/fuel management systems, including air/fuel
sensors and exhaust gas sensors. Ask for a free brochure.
FELPRO
7450 N. McCormick Blvd., P.O. Box 1103, Skokie, IL 60076-8103
(708) 674-7700 / (708) 674-0151 FAX
Gaskets, gaskets, gaskets.
Hayes Wheels
38481 Huron River Dr, Romulus, MI 48174
(313) 941-2000
Passenger car and light truck replacement wheels.
HELLA
201 Kelly Dr, Peachtree City, GA 30269
(800) 247-5924
Halogen head lamps. Call for free brochure. Catalog $3.00.
IDEAL (Stant Corporation)
3200 Parker Dr, St. Augustine, FL 32095-0897
(800) 221-0100 / (904) 829-1000
Stainless steel hose clamps.
IMC
5455 N.W. 72nd Ave, Miami, FL 33166
(800)321-3201 / (407)887-3347
FOHA spoilers.
Installations Unlimited
405 East Gardena Blvd, Carson, CA
(310) 327-8143
Speakers
Marren Motor Sports
412 Roosevelt Dr, Derby, CT 06418
(203) 732-4565 / (203) 734-2629 FAX
Fuel injectors, injector balancing, & programmable fuel management systems.
NGK
8 Whatney, Irvine, CA 92718
(714) 855-8278
Spark plugs.
Pro Glass Inc.
1612 Landmeier Rd, Elk Grove Village, IL 60007-2463
(708) 952-0135
Lexan racing windows.
Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp
3450 Pacheco Blvd, Martinez, CA 94553
(510) 228-7576 / (800) 624-7958
Synthetic oils and lubes. Free literature.
Robert Bosch
Broadview, IL
(708) 865-5200
Bosch products.
SWEPCO
117 H St, San Rafael, CA 94901
(415) 454-1698
High grade tranny lube. John Svabenik - local distributor.
Tire Rack
771 W. Chippewa Ave, South Bend, IN 46614
(800) 428-8355 / (219) 287-2345 / (219) 236-7707 FAX
Discount prices on large selection of tires and wheels. Good advice on what you
can and can't do also.
Toyota Customer Assistance Center
19001 S. Western Ave., P.O. Box 2991, Torrance, CA 90509-2991
(800) 331-4331
________________________________________________________________________________
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 20:07:10 -0700
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Bay_Area Beware...
Toy_modders in the Bay_Area,
Beware, in recent light of the mishaps of fellow modder Aaron Lung and
myself... both of us has encountered the likes of our local law_enforement
agency alittle closer that we wished. It seems that the Counties are in need
of revenues so WATCH OUT for police traps. It that time of the month again so
keep your heads up and your radar detectors armed!!!
Latas,
Allan
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Date: 16 Jul 94 15:30:26 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: TRD Mailer
Everyone else get the TRD mailer, advertising a new 'tude and some lower
prices? So much for them leaving the US, sounds like they're waking up (good
morning).
Anyway, I got some questions about the stuff they have for my Corolla GTS:
There are several different 4AG valves, valve springs, and valve seats listed.
What the diffo between them, and from stock?
What does their Corolla front spoiler look like?
What's the tach for this car, does it fit in the stock panel?
What's all that 4AG oil pump stuff they're selling, parts for an outboard
piece? The one on my car is driven off the crank, and doesn't have any pulleys,
belts, or brackets, as far as I know.
What's a union filter housing?
Is their water pump block plate the stock piece?
Kevin
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Date: 16 Jul 94 15:30:29 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: AFM Mod Defies Logic
Many moons ago, I modified the AFM on my Corolla to finally rid myself of the
annoying part-throttle ping I'd been putting up with for so long, by turning
the gear a notch CCW. It worked.
Since I just cleaned up the head and piston tops, I figured I'd try the stock
setting, and see what happened. It ran better. Then I turned it a notch CW,
and it ran even better. One more notch, and it's jammin.
Why is this happening??
Kevin
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Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 18:35:16 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: WOB
Man, go away a few days and WOB WOB WOB!
Chris
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Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 12:37:06 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: WOB !!!
Cmyer wrote:
Man, go away a few days and WOB WOB WOB!
Chris
Welps Chris... Darn tooting =)
but its lot of useful info =P
-Koji
Welcome back muddog !
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Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 15:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: WOB
WOBity, WOB, WOB . . .
Welcome back soldier boy ;)
Clark
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Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 18:40:15 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: New Member!
Welcome our new member! (Sorry so brief, 300 mail messages to catch up
on!)
>>>>>Jonathan Chan<<<<<
Name : Jonathan Chan
Location: Princton, NJ (Mercer County)
Model : 1989 Corrola SR5 (Rear Spoiler, 5-speed, no A/C)
Engine :
4A-F
Mods : (Waiting for advice) SO far is only well tuned
Email : jchan@cnj.digex.net
I am seriously want to increase my car's power and I am looking for
advise
to do so.
-Jonathan
>>>>><<<<<
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Date: 18 Jul 94 00:56:12 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: Newbie...
>> TOM'S is one of Toyota's official racing team and now starting to
>> release street parts.
They've been around for a while, haven't they? I know at least their wheels
have been. Are they in the US yet?
Kevin
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Date: Sun, 17 Jul 94 19:00:09 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Toms Racing...
>From 76334.3232@compuserve.com Sun Jul 17 18:56:41 1994
Date: 18 Jul 94 00:56:12 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie...
>>>> TOM'S is one of Toyota's official racing team and now starting to
>>>> release street parts.
>They've been around for a while, haven't they? I know at least their wheels
>have been. Are they in the US yet?
Sure have been around in ages..
That guy "Yoshi" TRDCELICA@aol don't seem to know much...
and claims eben less at times...
"I learned how to drive on my fathers Skyline"
and he drives a 1983 Celica and is impressed -boggle-
> Kevin
-Koji
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 08:12:15 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: IPS status
Seen in the latest version of the supplier listing:
> Chris Myer Racing (CMR)
> Speed Racer Circle
> Palm Bay, FL 32907
> cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com
> Simply the best kick-ass performance stuff available at unbeatable
prices.
> Forget the rest, accept no substitutes.
My friend Clark exaggerates a bit. However, it did cue me that it is a
good time to give a little status report.
I still haven't gotten solid on a name yet. I emailed the Internet
Society and asked them about using the word "Internet" in a business
name, and got no response. I was going to call it the Import
Performance Store, or maybe the Internet Performance Store (IPS in
either case.) I'll probably avoid calling it by my name, however (I'll
reserve that for my racing team!)
Expected kickoff date: 3 months and moving further away all the time!
I want to get everything right before I make a big commitment (like
quitting my job, getting a big startup loan, etc!) I am thinking that I
should go ahead and get a tax id so that I can start buying some stuff
at jobber pricing when that will help folks out. This might happen
within the next coupla weeks.
Mini Racing Report: My driver got packed into the wall last race out (2
Friday's ago.) We'll be spending Tuesday night trying to get the
steering linkage straightened back out. Then I'll be trying to convince
my driver that we need to put a certain other driver into the wall so
hard his car will never compete again. Unfortunately, my driver is too
nice a guy, but I'm working on that. In case anyone out there hasn't
figured it out, stock car racing is basically like a combination between
racing and boxing. Sorta a Rollerball concept. Not for the timid!
Chris
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 08:35:01 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Oh the Things a Supplier Will Tell You to Make A Buck
(Excellent discussion of dealer ripoff deleted....)
> To close the loop, I called Northwest, Downey Off-Road, and AEM to
> get their opinions. Northwest claimed they were simply going on
> what Offenhauser had reported. The latter two said they had
> actually been involved in testing these manifolds years back and
> had found that the claims of performance gains were totally bogus
> and therefore neither supplied nor endorsed them. Granted, as
> with so much in the performance world, these folks could be
> feeding me bunk too. However, based on my review of the tests
> that are supposed to back-up Offenhauser's claims, I would tend to
> agree with them . . .
>
> Later, Clark
I'd tend to believe AEM. After having talked quite a bit with 2 of the
3 priciples of that company (Keith and Steve), I am convinced they know
what they are doing. They claim (and I tend to believe them) that they
dyno everything they sell before putting it on the market. (It must be
nice to that that in-house dyno system!) Now on the business side of
things, that may be another issue! I've called there twice regarding
making them a supplier, and both times they acted real excited to work
with me, and promised to mail me some info immediately. The first call
was about 2 months ago, the second time about 1 month ago, and I have
yet to see anything. I suppose I shouldn't complain, if any performance
business had its own dyno, great prices on everything, and always did
everything right business-wise, there wouldn't be any reason for me to
start my own business!
Chris
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From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 14:57:38 EDT
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Apex seals on a Toyota?
> however the TRD stroker has the better apex seals so -shrug-
> -Koji
Hey Koji, you are confusing me. My Rx7 has apex seals, they are on the
apexes of the rotors in the rotary engine. Your comment about TRD sounds
very much as it might sound if someone told me they needed new piston
rings in their Rx7...
--
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 20:00:51 HST
From: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Apex Seals...
>From lupienj@hpwaleat.wal.hp.com Mon Jul 18 08:56:36 1994
From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 14:57:38 EDT
Subject: Apex seals on a Toyota?
>> however the TRD stroker has the better apex seals so -shrug-
>> -Koji
>Hey Koji, you are confusing me. My Rx7 has apex seals, they are on the
>apexes of the rotors in the rotary engine.
On a rotary the apex seals seperate the three tricoidal chambers from
each other. True...
>Your comment about TRD sounds very much as it might sound if someone
>told me they needed new piston rings in their Rx7...
Actually RE Amamiya has a set for you belive it or not...
Sorta...
Okay... since i've been put into question by myself...
I belive this is the answer that I can best justify my "typing" of
Apex Seals in a Toyota.
Basically from what I understand. There is an Apex twin cam motor in
Japan. Which is the 5 valve per cylinder motor. Weither this is true or
not. I dunno... cause i got the sticker, and so to speak, so does
Allan Chen -poke localmocoboy- Or i thought he did. It comes on
the Japan Spec GTS.
>--
>---
>John R. Lupien
>lupienj@wal.hp.com
(*shrug*) Sorry for disinformation...
-Koji
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 08:36:21 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: New Member!
Please join me in welcoming Marc Hartranft to the list. Marc, as do
many of our other members, has serious plans for his MR2, so lets be
sure to give him lots of info.
Welcome aboard, Marc!
>>>>>Marc Hartranft<<<<<
Name: Marc Hartranft
Location: (H) Scotts Valley Ca. (W) San Jose Ca
Model(s) 1986 MR2 - Converted to SCCA ITA Road Racing Trim
1988 MR2 - Supercharged
Engines: 4AGE and 4AGZE both modified. The RACE motor has been dynoed
at
125 HP at the rear wheels.
Modifications: Extensive mods have been made to race car, suspension
with coil over springs, camber plates, fully adjustable sway bars,
in conjunction with 225-50-14 tires on 7" wheels.
Street car has had ST springs to lower, ST sway bars, 195-50-15 on
6 1/2 wheels. Engine has HKS crank pulley and free flow exhaust.
EMAIL: mh@cypress.com
I am mostly interest in info relevant to improving the race car..
Thanks for your help and look forward to talking with you..
>>>>><<<<<
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 06:04:00 -0700
To: toyota-mods-wob@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Apex Seals...
On Jul 18, 8:00pm, tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu wrote:
> Subject: RE: Apex Seals...
> Basically from what I understand. There is an Apex twin cam motor in
> Japan. Which is the 5 valve per cylinder motor. Weither this is true or
> not. I dunno... cause i got the sticker, and so to speak, so does
> Allan Chen -poke localmocoboy- Or i thought he did. It comes on
> the Japan Spec GTS.
I see you have been reading alt.culture.hawaii lately huh Kikaida_Koji
and I don't have that sticker on my GT-S... (stickerless GT-S).
Latas,
Allan
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From: msink@gateway.bsis.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 09:09:41 EDT
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: New Member!
Alright! A serious MR2 man!
What exactly does coil over spring mean? Is the ride height adjustable
as with the coil over kit from Ground Control?
Where did you get camber plates for the car? I'd like some, but
never seen'em. Are they custom made?
What offset did you use to fit 225's on the car? Any problems?
I have an '87 BTW. Can you supply the Dyno info you have, and what
mods contributed to the gain. I have stock ENGINE dyno tests from
Turbo Magazine from 2000-7000 in 500 RPM increments. I assume you've
used your dyno info, and combined it with gear ratios to plot
torque at the rear to obtain shift points for max acceleration?
Look forward to hearing more about your cars.
Mark Sink
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 09:26:32 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: New Member!
> What exactly does coil over spring mean? Is the ride height adjustable
> as with the coil over kit from Ground Control?
I think first the difference between a strut and a shock must be agreed
upon. The key difference, as I understand it, is what the lower end of
the device is connected to. If you have a device you can just pull out
by jacking the car up and unbolting it, and then let the car back down
without a problem, you have a shock. If you are removing a key
component of the suspension, and the car would collapse if the weight
was returned to the corner you remove the device from, you have a
strut. Do we agree on that?
Now, all of the struts I am familiar with have the coil around (over)
them, so you don't hear the phrase "coil-over" used in reference to
struts. Shocks, on the other hand, may have the coil around them or in
a different location (or they may be used in conjunction with leaf
springs.) Coil over shocks supposedly give you better performance.
Additionally, if you get a coil-over shock with the adjustable spring
seat (threaded body), you can customize your spring-rate as desired.
That is why these are so beautiful for circle-track racing. You can go
to one track, adjust your spring-rate, and then go to another track, and
run another spring rate, simply by jacking the weight off the spring and
turning the valve seat up or down. (Note: I don't completely
understand this, but in this context ride height and spring rate are
fairly interchangeable.)
> Where did you get camber plates for the car? I'd like some, but
> never seen'em. Are they custom made?
Carrera makes 'em, at around $70 each, retail (ouch!)
Chris
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 09:37:14 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: New Member!
>Carrera makes 'em, at around $70 each, retail (ouch!)
Really? For an '87 MR2. Any idea on how much negative
I can get out of the front? Right now, There is one side
that only get's -.7 deg. I'd like to get -2.0 If I choose.
Although right now with the TRD setup, -.7 front and -1.8
rear, the cars seems to behave nicely with a hint of
oversteer once in awhile. Then sometimes, the rear really
get's happy.
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 10:10:00 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Struts and shocks, caster and camber (was: New Member!)
> >Carrera makes 'em, at around $70 each, retail (ouch!)
>
> Really? For an '87 MR2. Any idea on how much negative
> I can get out of the front? Right now, There is one side
> that only get's -.7 deg. I'd like to get -2.0 If I choose.
>
> Although right now with the TRD setup, -.7 front and -1.8
> rear, the cars seems to behave nicely with a hint of
> oversteer once in awhile. Then sometimes, the rear really
> get's happy.
>
A few things to keep in mind about camber. First, camber plates are a
fairly major modification, to which there is no going back (at least on
the setups I've seen.) Second, there are other ways of creating camber
in your front tires which won't cause as much abnormal wear. By putting
5 degrees of caster in your front tires, you will get 2.5 degrees of
camber in your wheels when your wheel is turned 45 degrees off of
straight ahead. Remember that by putting negative camber in both
wheels, you are sacrificing optimum setup on the inside wheel, since
you'd prefer _positive_ camber on that side. Caster gives you exactly
what you want...negative camber on the outside, positive on the inside.
BTW, when I say "caster", I mean pulling the wheel forward. (I never
can remember if this is positive or negative. Just remember you want
the top of the strut well behind the bottom.)
A final note: When making radical plans for camber or caster, remember
that you can be restricted by the size of the area your strut/spring
combo occupies. I know that in my Celica, I can't put too much of
either in that car because the strut tower would bind the spring.
Another thing to remember with caster is that your control arm mounts
are set at 90 degrees to the front of the car. So, if you add 5 degrees
of caster, you're binding the control arm against those mounts a bit.
But hey, that's what makes race car engineering fun!
Tonight I'll be pulling the control arms off the race car and doing some
work. I'm going to add some camber and install the poly control arm
bushings that Clark gave me (FINALLY!) I'm considering cutting the
lower control arm mount off the rhs, since it got chewed up a little in
that impact with the wall last race, and re-welding it at a slight angle
to account for the added camber. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.
Chris
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From: lupienj@wal.hp.com (John Lupien)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 11:14:50 EDT
To: tkoseki@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu, toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: RE: Apex Seals...
> >Your comment about TRD sounds very much as it might sound if someone
> >told me they needed new piston rings in their Rx7...
> Actually RE Amamiya has a set for you belive it or not...
> Sorta...
Do you mean they have piston rings for my Rx7? I think I'll do without...
> Basically from what I understand. There is an Apex twin cam motor in
> Japan. Which is the 5 valve per cylinder motor. Weither this is true or
> not. I dunno... cause i got the sticker, and so to speak, so does
> Allan Chen -poke localmocoboy- Or i thought he did. It comes on
> the Japan Spec GTS.
So the "apex seal" you referred to is like the "Good Housekeep Apex Seal
of Approval", available in several fine lustrous colors from your local
sticker shop?
> (*shrug*) Sorry for disinformation...
De Nada, I am now informed on this critical issue. That's why they make e-mail
a two-way thing...
--
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com
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Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 12:41:21 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Laser Radar Jammers
This is not a t-m thing so I am going to keep it short! (apologies,
apologies).
I am now an authorized reseller of the K40 "Defuser" (aka Laser
Radar Jammer) and as such can offer some decent pricing on these
things. If you want more info/pricing, drop me a line.
Mention T-mods in your message!
Sorry for the commercial.
Regards,
Fredo
(fredo@mbnet.mb.ca)
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* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
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From: law40034@leonis.nus.sg
Subject: 3T into a TA40
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 11:49:16 +0800 (SST)
Just went around scounting for "junk" and found me a 3T(?) going for
US$250. The "(?)" being 3T(what). It's not a DOHC so I'd bet it isn't a
3TG. 3TC?
Any comments regarding the effects of dropping a 3T into a TA40 that used
to have a 2T-B in it?
bentan
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From: k124476@ee.tut.fi (Kalalahti Matti)
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
To: law40034@leonis.nus.sg
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 14:48:32 EET DST
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
> Just went around scounting for "junk" and found me a 3T(?) going for
> US$250. The "(?)" being 3T(what). It's not a DOHC so I'd bet it isn't a
> 3TG. 3TC?
3T or 3T-C. $250 is pretty cheap if it's in running condition...
> Any comments regarding the effects of dropping a 3T into a TA40 that used
> to have a 2T-B in it?
A few hp more. Finnish 3T's (around 1980) had 90hp stock. 3T is
essentially the same engine as 2T, but it has a stroke of 78mm
instead of 70mm in 2T's. The later 3T's have a CR of 9, earlier
70's models are rumoured to have a different head for higher
compression.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 173+hp * 246Nm@4800
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 11:16:52 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
>> Ben writes:
>Matti writes:
> > Just went around scounting for "junk" and found me a 3T(?) going for
> > US$250. The "(?)" being 3T(what). It's not a DOHC so I'd bet it
isn't a
> > 3TG. 3TC?
>
> 3T or 3T-C. $250 is pretty cheap if it's in running condition...
>
> > Any comments regarding the effects of dropping a 3T into a TA40 that
used
> > to have a 2T-B in it?
>
> A few hp more. Finnish 3T's (around 1980) had 90hp stock. 3T is
> essentially the same engine as 2T, but it has a stroke of 78mm
> instead of 70mm in 2T's. The later 3T's have a CR of 9, earlier
> 70's models are rumoured to have a different head for higher
> compression.
How about this: Get that 3T and put the 2T head on it. Will that
help? I know if you put a 20R head on the (older) 22R, you'll get
higher compression and better breathability (<---is that a word?)
Chris
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From: GRAHAM@cc1.unt.edu
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 09:43:09 CST6CDT
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
>Just went around scounting for "junk" and found me a 3T(?) going for
>US$250. The "(?)" being 3T(what). It's not a DOHC so I'd bet it isn't a
>3TG. 3TC?
>
>Any comments regarding the effects of dropping a 3T into a TA40 that used
>to have a 2T-B in it?
>
>bentan
$250 sounds like a very good deal if the engine is in decent
condition. I believe the 3TC is pretty much the same as the 2TC,
except for stroke, so the 3TC probably has a bit more power.
I can tell you that the 2TC and 3TC are extremely durable and
reliable powerplants. I know of several that have exceeded 200K
miles. I have a 2TC in a 76 Corolla that is still going strong at
over 200k. These engines seem to be able to take quite a bit of
abuse and neglect (not that I would ever be guilty of abusing or
neglecting an engine!). =:)
Good luck,
mike graham
denton texas
76 Corolla, 88 4runner
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From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 09:01:58 -0700
To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer), tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
On Jul 20, 11:16am, Chris Myer wrote:
> Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
> How about this: Get that 3T and put the 2T head on it. Will that
> help? I know if you put a 20R head on the (older) 22R, you'll get
> higher compression and better breathability (<---is that a word?)
Isn't that the '70-'74 2T heads are the heads of preference
all due to the fact that it has less emissions feature and thicker
runners (this feature will permit you to increase the intake/exhaust
ports dramatically as well as well as radical port due to more
material in the runners). Koji, care to verify this.
Thanks,
Allan
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From: law40034@nusunix2.nus.sg
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 7:57:27 WST
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
> >> Ben writes:
> >Matti writes:
>
> > > Just went around scounting for "junk" and found me a 3T(?) going for
> > > US$250. The "(?)" being 3T(what). It's not a DOHC so I'd bet it
> isn't a
> > > 3TG. 3TC?
> >
> > 3T or 3T-C. $250 is pretty cheap if it's in running condition...
The piston rings look worn, the valves need grinding and there's a whole
lot of gunk (i.e. goo/shit/C2 deposits) on it. Other than that, it LOOKS
to be in working order.
Question is, will it go with the 2T gearbox?
> > > Any comments regarding the effects of dropping a 3T into a TA40 that
> used
> > > to have a 2T-B in it?
> >
> > A few hp more. Finnish 3T's (around 1980) had 90hp stock. 3T is
> > essentially the same engine as 2T, but it has a stroke of 78mm
> > instead of 70mm in 2T's. The later 3T's have a CR of 9, earlier
> > 70's models are rumoured to have a different head for higher
> > compression.
So the exterior dimensions are EXACTLY the same then? i.e. if I restamp
the #, w/o dismantling the whole thing, you can't tell the diff?
> How about this: Get that 3T and put the 2T head on it. Will that
> help? I know if you put a 20R head on the (older) 22R, you'll get
> higher compression and better breathability (<---is that a word?)
There you go with your enigmatic nomenclature again.. ;-)
> Chris
I was actually thinking of that. I'd managed to get hold of a head for
the 2T (another head, that is) and have just finished porting/polishing
it. In fact, it was only when I was at the parts store about to get a
set of overhaul gaskets that I found the 3T.
What are the chances of a 2TB head on a 3T(dunno what) actually working?
How do I tell if it isn't working? Dumb question I guess...
bentan
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From: k124476@ee.tut.fi (Kalalahti Matti)
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
To: law40034@nusunix2.nus.sg
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 15:42:34 EET DST
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
> The piston rings look worn, the valves need grinding and there's a whole
> lot of gunk (i.e. goo/shit/C2 deposits) on it. Other than that, it LOOKS
> to be in working order.
Are the heads identical? Same valves?
> Question is, will it go with the 2T gearbox?
Yes, no doubt about that.
> So the exterior dimensions are EXACTLY the same then? i.e. if I restamp
> the #, w/o dismantling the whole thing, you can't tell the diff?
You should know that already, as you have seen both of them...
I don't think there is any difference in appearance.
If you want your engine to look like a stock 2T(-B) and
also want more power, you might consider boring the cylinders
of that 3T block to fit 89 or 90mm pistons, which would
give you almost 2l displacement... I've seen 90mm pistons
for sale for 2T-G, a 2l 3T-GTEU (probably also ~90mm bore)
and the racing version had 89mm bore with 84mm stroke,
so it SHOULD be possible to do safely.
I'd say you can get easily about 115 hp if you bore it to 2l, with
good exhaust & carbs of course...
> What are the chances of a 2TB head on a 3T(dunno what) actually working?
> How do I tell if it isn't working? Dumb question I guess...
It should work. But better be careful, Chris already posted
a safe way to test it.
Good luck, and let us know how it works out...
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 173+hp * 246Nm@4800
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 08:12:44 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 3T into a TA40
> What are the chances of a 2TB head on a 3T(dunno what) actually
working?
> How do I tell if it isn't working? Dumb question I guess...
I'm pretty sure it will work, but here's how I would check (although you
must buy the 3T first...) First, put the 2T head (with valvetrain) in
place on the 3T block. Do the head bolt holes line up? If so, bolt it
down to spec and properly install the timing chain. Next, carefully
turn the engine over by hand. Does anything hit? (You need to check
with the spark plugs in, since the 3T has a longer stroke and might
drive the piston up further.) Still no problem? Hey, crank 'er up, but
now watch oil pressure and watch for oil in the radiator. If it runs
ok, and there is no water in the oil or vice-versa, you've got no
problems.
On the other hand, having another (larger displacement) motor on hand
isn't a bad idea. Its a lot easier/cheaper to get a high performance
motor ready when you don't need it for transportation or a race!
Chris
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 08:47:02 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Atlantic spec 4AGE
Is this 240 HP 4AGE engine street legal? I'm reading back posts
that seem to think this engine is an alternative to turbocharging.
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 08:50:24 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: roger@sickkids.on.ca
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
>On a positive note , You can try either Select Sales in Miami
>(Ian Mackenzie) or Paeco (SP?) in California to inquire about their *big
>valve heads* for the MR2 -- Yes it still uses the stock fuel injection. For
>around US $1200 you could easily get 200-210 BHP. Note all power comes from
>the head.
Do you have anymore info on this head or Select Sales. I have an add from
Select Sales, but I've never heard of this special head or 200 HP with
fuel injection, is this street legal stuff?
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 11:09:54 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Race Car Status
Well, I mentioned that my driver and I would have to work on the race
car after he was driven into the wall last race by an unscrupulous
driver. The impact nearly tore the lower control arm bracket off of the
crossmember, so we went ahead and cut it off, welded a patch on and them
re-welded the bracket on, but now with a bit of angle to make up for the
caster in the front tires. As I mentioned in a post earlier this week,
you need caster to provide camber when you turn the wheel. Well, the
only problems with adding a lot of caster are:
1.) The sway bar doesn't line up with the hole in the lower
control arm very well, and
2.) The control arm doesn't line up with the bracket very
well.
I'd try to do some ascii-art to explain better, but its a bit beyond my
artistic
abilities. Basically, the control arm connections are set up so that
the control arms will be perpendicular to the direction of travel. When
you tighten the links that run from the front of the car to the control
arms, you angle the outside end of the control arm (along with the
bottom end of the strut) forward. This is adding caster. Now, the
angled control arm is a bit more difficult to get into the square
bracket, and the sway bar end is now behind the control arm, (back where
the control are _used_ to be) so you have to do some creative wiggling
to get everything back together. As a matter of fact, its best to just
loosen all of the connections, use the nuts on the threaded lateral link
to pull the still connected control arm forward, and then tighten
everything back up.
Why am I boring everyone with this? Because, caster adjustments are one
of the easiest ways of improving your handling without causing bad wear
patterns on your tires. Think of it like this:
-> |
strut -> |
-> |-- <---hub shaft
(Strut on RHS of car, viewed from rear)
When you turn your wheel, your axis of rotation is the strut itself.
Now, if the strut is directly up and down, your hub shaft will turn but
will stay parallel to the ground. Now, imagine the strut with the
bottom angled forward (or the top angled back, which every you prefer,
both are the same in theory.) Now, when you turn the strut counter
clockwise (in other words, turn the steering wheel to the left) the hub
shaft will begin to rotate forward and _up_ on the RHS, backward and
_down_ on the left. Now, if your RHS hub shaft is angled up, this is
negative camber, exactly what you want! Plus, with the LHS hub shaft
angled down, you get positive camber. Now, while I don't care if my car
completely rolls over when turning right (circle track, remember?),
you'll find that this same setup will provide the proper camber in a
right hand turn--negative on the left, positive on the right.
So you've learned something. If you can adjust your camber in your
front wheels, add all of it you can (Sorry, I never can remember if this
is positive or negative. Just pull those wheels forward.) It won't
wear your tires funny like adding camber will, and it will work evenly
for left and right hand turns (unlike adding negative camber to both
wheels which is a detriment to the inside tire in a turn.) Leave camber
adjustments to the back tires, and go mild at that. Even then, you'll
want to get tires that look the same on both sides so that you can have
them unmounted and flipped over from time to time to offset the uneven
wear.
Chris
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 11:13:00 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Oh, another thing...
Forgot to mention that we went ahead and put those polyurethane control
arm bushings in while we had everything torn apart. If you're thinking
about adding poly to your suspension, its a good time to do it while you
have everything loose.
(Thanks for the bushings, Clark!)
Chris
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 11:01:20 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: More stuff ... BEL Radar
Sorry for more non-TM stuff but...
I just got my BEL dealer price list sooooooo...
If anyone is interested, maybe I can offer something.
Let me know!
Unfortunately, my data sheets haven't arrived yet BUT they
should in a few days so then I will be able to help those who
aren't quite sure which model they need.
I also have prices on 900MHz phones and caller ID products from
BEL-Tronics.
Sorry for the interruption.
Regards,
Fredo
(fredo@mbnet.mb.ca)
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 11:01:22 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Performance products cata
Hi all!
I just got my copy of the performance products catalog.
NEAT stuff for toy-trucks!
Some of the prices don't seem to be all that great but
the ideas for xmas gifts abounded.
They seem to have everything....most of the stuff was
cosmetic with a few performance items thrown in (clutches,
cams,carbs,shocks...)
The catalog was free...just phone and request one.
Fredo
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 11:01:23 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Chip upgrades
I have found that nobody does chip upgrades for lots
of toyotas (particulary my 88 Corolla GTS).
In my Performance Products catalog I noticed that a
company called "Jones Electronic Controls" does mail-in
upgrades but only for V6's.
Has anyone ever talked to these people (or similar)
to find out if they would be interested in doing a system
for the other toyotas?
Perhaps they would be interested if the toy-mods group
approached them. From the discussions I have seen, it
would seem there are several people out there
who may be interested. Perhaps we could convince Chris to
handle these as a product?
Any comments anyone?
Regards,
Fredo
(88 Corolla GTS - CSP)
(fredo@mbnet.mb.ca)
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 9:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Clark Wallace
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: another thing...
>(Thanks for the bushings, Clark!)
Y-y-y-your wel-wel-wel-come-come . . .
E-E-E-En-joy-joy th-th-th-the ri-ri-ride!
Cl-Cl-Cl-ar-ar-ar-k-k-k
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 12:38:01 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Atlantic spec 4AGE
> Is this 240 HP 4AGE engine street legal? I'm reading back posts
> that seem to think this engine is an alternative to turbocharging.
I always thought those Atlantic engines were designed so the 240 HP
came out at around 7,000-10,000 rpm or so. Would such a beast be
practical for street use? What sort of bottom-end would these motors
actually have? Also, I strongly believe these motors were based
on the 4AGZE block rather than the 4AGE block which are, apparently,
different (the 4AGZE being stronger and therefore the block of choice
for major mods ... is 240 HP a major mod?!?!)
Questions, questions!
Fredo
p.s. If anyone gets a 200+ HP 4AGE running, COME VISIT ME!
(I want to go for a ride! Maybe not..then I'll end up spending
more money I don't have!)
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 13:50:25 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Atlantic spec 4AGE
The note said 240hp@9500 which 132 ft/lbs@9500
I assume torque peak somewhere around 7500??
Anyway, I'd love to go screaming down the road
at 10,000+ RPM. There are back post talking
about a 200+ N/A 4AGE from Paeco and Select
Sales. PAECO said I'd get close to 200 with
the Stage II engine plus a stroke and bore.
But you want a running engine, that i don't
know. They claim it's EFI compatible.
Hmmm, 210cc/min injectors and 200 HP all below
7500 RPM?
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From: mh@cypress.com (Marc Hartranft / Mgr. Tech. Development)
Subject: Looking for HP in the 4AGE
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota_mods)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: mh@cypress.com (Marc Hartranft / Mgr. Tech. Development)
200 HP out of a 4AGE?
Would definitly use the later model (88-89) block which is the 4AGZE
block and use the 4AGZE crank.... Have done a lot of straight forward
work to obtain 160 HP out of a early block 4AGE and theres more power
to be had if we didn't bump up to the rev limiter.. The motor has
ultimately been very reliable with over 25 hours at race conditions.
Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
better HP and improved torque at lower RPM. Also am looking for headers
(other than TRD) which may have larger than the 1 1/2 in primary diameters.
Marc
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Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 18:28:13 EDT
From: Steven_Jackson.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
To: UNIXML::"toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com"@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Atlantic spec 4AGE
Mark writes:
"Is this 240 HP 4AGE engine street legal? I'm reading back posts
that seem to think this engine is an alternative to turbocharging."
This is a nice engine. But, it's about as streetable as the Swifts, Ralts, and
Renards it powers. Like the venerable Cosworth BD engine that it competes
with, it builds a large percentage of it's torque and power in the last
2500-3000 RPM. And like the Cosworth, it costs about $15K.
You can get almost this same power, minus the incredible dynamics of the FA
engine, with the 4A-GZE and about $1K worth of bolt on items (supercharger
pulley, exhaust, vernier cam gears, cams).
I'm still trying to figure out how to use the whole package, Swift chassis
along with the engine, as a commuter!
- Steven
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From: Ted Osamu Koseki
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: WOB Sorta...
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 18:07:14 -1000
Aloha...
If ya didn't hear...there's a hurricane comming...
Works been hell..as we deal with water and juices and stuff...
Will reply to some of these postings..like n e bunny cares =P
I got some specs and stuff for you...
Reply later...
Emilia or something is comming ! =P
-Koji
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 08:29:59 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: 4AGE T-VIS
>Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
>the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
>better HP and improved torque at lower RPM.
I wouldn't think so, infact, the T-VIS is there to improve low end
torque. If you look at the torque curve of the 4AGE, you can actually
see where the second "valve" or whatever opens up at about 4500 RPM.
The curve hits a peak at 3500, then starts to fall, at 4000, the T-VIS
open up, and it rises again till hitting max at 4800 RPM. So, w/o the
T-VIS, you're either gonna get no low end (always open), or very bad top
end (closed) which I know isn't the case. I also read that it's not
on the GZE because the supercharger made up for the low end.
Anyway, this had been my understanding that the T-VIS improves low end.
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 10:37:13 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: 5AGE
Can someone explain what a 5AGE is? I saw a write up in Turbo Mag that
had a picture of the engine in an MR2 with a 5AGE name. It was supposedly
a 2.0L engine. How come I've never seen anyhting like this, or the 5AGE
name for sale.
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 11:06:31 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@ess.harris.com
Subject: Formula Atlantic Review..
Forwarding from our very own Roger Smith...Cool stuff!
----- Begin Included Message -----
>From @mail.uunet.ca:gatewy!ROGERS@gatewy Fri Jul 22 10:24:03 1994
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 13:26:01 -0400
From: "ROGERS"
Encoding: 4037 Text
To: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Formula Atlantic Review..
Content-Length: 3969
X-Lines: 70
Hey Chris,
Did the group receive a note: "Formula Atlantic Review" from me?
If not could you post this for me.... Thanks...
============================= cut here ==========================
I was fortunate to obtain a pass from one of the technical inspectors
for the
players Formula Atlantic series at last weekends Toronto Indy, and as a
result spent quite a bit of time observing and gathering misc info
about
formula atlantic racing. The following bits should be of
interest to race fans.
Because the Players Atlantic series is a driver oriented series, the
engines
are all built to the Players-Toyota specification.
As such none of the team mechanics I spoke to knew exact valve lifts,
cam
profiles since most teams simply buy engines from one of several engine
builders for the series. I was quoted a price of CDN $17,000 for an
Atlantic
spec engine, however as one guy quickly added, most of the cost, is in
preparation (Assembly, machining etc..) Operating Budget for 2 Atlantic
cars is
US 1.5 million per season. The on board Telemetry system on these cars
records
everything from steering position to throttle opening to engine
temperature.
Some data can be transmitted in real time, while other stuff is
downloaded when
the cars come into the pits.
The compression ratio in the formula atlantic (4AGE) engines is 12.7:1,
and since Sunoco (Gas) is a part sponsor of the series, they all use
Sunoco
94 octane gas. (I suspect port work and bigger valves are a factor in
getting around the detonation problem with such a high CR on pump gas)
One of
the checks done after every race (for the Top 5 cars) by the Technical
Inspectors, is to take fuel samples from each car for analysis.
Super Trapp mufflers:
All of the Players car's use Super Trapp mufflers!, the header connects
dirrectly to a pipe of about 8-12" and
then to the supper trapp muffler.
(They don't use the removable plates on the tip of the muffler)
TRD Injection:
Besides looking really slick, The new TRD injection system for 94 is
somewhat
of a Black Box, the builders/teams have a small degree of control over
the
engine maps, which they program via computer.
They are limited to 9200 RPM, and the series inspectors use an IBM
think pad
lap top running MS Windows with a custom software package that plugs
into
the ECU of the TRD injection system, The software runs a series of
checks, in
which several CRC's must match (CRC - Cyclic Redundacy Check) This
Test is
completed in all but a few seconds and is mainly to check that Teams
don't
tamper with certain parameters. TRD, has also developed a set of really
cool
tools for measuring static timing, cyclinder bores, compression ratios,
etc so there is no fooling these guys (r u listening Chris!) The Cam
covers are
removed, and the inspectors use the special tools on the cam lobes to
check
that the profiles are as should be. The Cam covers are one piece special
cast
items, that help to form an integral part of the chassis. They still
have
Toyota 1600 and 16 Valve stamped on them.
Rims & Tires:
Formula Atlantic cars run on 13 inch rims, with
Yokohama Race tires, 240x??x13 (10" Wide Rim) Front, 320x??x13 (12" Wide
Rim)
Rear. Most of the cars use AP racing calipers and Rotors. ("AP Racing"
is a
British manufacturer of Race Parts, they also make a clutch and pressure
plate
for the 4AGE) Nice thing about AP stuff, is that you can fit them to
anything
as you have to drill your own mounting points..
As for engine response, these engines have very little inertia, and will
rev from 1000-8000-1000 rpm quicker than you can say hot-dam. The
flywheel is
typically around 5 lbs or less. Reving the engines in the pits simply
has
to be heard to be appreciated. On the longest straightaway at the
Toronto Indy
the formula atlantic cars (which have a minimum wt requirement of 1100
lbs with
driver) average about 150 MPH, by comparasion the Indy cars were around
195
MPH.
----- End Included Message -----
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: mh@cypress.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
To: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 08:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota_mods)
>
> >Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
> >the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
> >better HP and improved torque at lower RPM.
>
> I wouldn't think so, infact, the T-VIS is there to improve low end
> torque. If you look at the torque curve of the 4AGE, you can actually
> see where the second "valve" or whatever opens up at about 4500 RPM.
>
> The curve hits a peak at 3500, then starts to fall, at 4000, the T-VIS
> open up, and it rises again till hitting max at 4800 RPM. So, w/o the
> T-VIS, you're either gonna get no low end (always open), or very bad top
> end (closed) which I know isn't the case. I also read that it's not
> on the GZE because the supercharger made up for the low end.
>
> Anyway, this had been my understanding that the T-VIS improves low end.
>
It is interesting that this head was used on essentially a standard
4AGE and developed ~ 20 - 30 more HP according to Toyo spec!.. The
head on the standard 4AGE in conjunction with the TVIS looks like
it will experience lots more turbulence and hurt flow characteristics..
Removing the TVIS butterfly hardware actually improves HP (remember
for my application - I am running within 1500 - 2000 RPM of the redline)
at some loss of torque in the 3500 RPM region.
I was hoping somebody had already experimented with this head as it
was used on the Corolla GTS in the year when Toyota didn't have an
MR2 to sell! My impression is that the Corolla was pumped up to improve
the "sports car" image during that period.
Thanks for the help
Marc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 10:39:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: Re: 5AGE
To: Mark Sink - Gateway Production
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, Mark Sink - Gateway Production wrote:
> Can someone explain what a 5AGE is? I saw a write up in Turbo Mag that
> had a picture of the engine in an MR2 with a 5AGE name. It was supposedly
> a 2.0L engine. How come I've never seen anyhting like this, or the 5AGE
> name for sale.
Could this be the European non-turbo model with ~160bhp?
Just a guess...
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 13:23:40 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: 5AGE
It may be a 5AGX, but someone on this list mentioned
a 5AGE. I'll check the article again.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 12:42:16 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
I seem to recall that there is someone on the list with a non-TVIS
Corolla GTS....we had chatted about this very fact but I must apologize
to him for not remembering who it was...(meekly: sorry)
I seem to remember that the thrust of it was that non-TVIS has a weaker
bottom-end but that they also raised the compression to deal with this
for lower cost than TVIS. I also seem to recall that the newer one had
a knock sensor? (someone confirm this)
I have a defeat switch on my TVIS control wire so I can open it whenever
I want to. With a free-flow system there is a seat-of-the-pants difference
if you open it at 3000-3500 rpm versus 4500 rpm. I have thought of pulling
the guts out of the TVIS to provide a "cleaner" flow at high RPM but
that would mean my already not-so-smooth idle would become even worse.
Would the added smoothness of the intake ports actually help? Anyone
ever seen the inside of a TVIS...is this even possible?
Alternately, I could install my own rpm "switch" to trigger the TVIS at
the "right" rpm. Anyone know of any rpm switches? (I guess I could design
my own, being an EE, but I am too darn lazy for that!)
A thinner metal head gasket would also raise the compression.....if I
run 92 or 94 octane fuel exclusively would this be ok without a knock
sensor??? (anyone) Unfortunately, I don't do my own work so this would
probably be a pricey procedure to try just as a test.
Aside: I have a problem on hot days when I am in start-stop traffic and
driving "enthusiastically" I will accelerate rapidly, brake rapidly for a
red light and my rpm's will drop to idle at 1000 then fall below 500 and
the engine will die. Any advice? This only happens on hot days though when
I have been "pushing" it for a while.
Just my thoughts and pleading for help!
Fred (waaaahhhhhh....I want new wheels!) Oberbuchner
>>Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
>>the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
>>better HP and improved torque at lower RPM.
>
>I wouldn't think so, infact, the T-VIS is there to improve low end
>torque. If you look at the torque curve of the 4AGE, you can actually
>see where the second "valve" or whatever opens up at about 4500 RPM.
>
>The curve hits a peak at 3500, then starts to fall, at 4000, the T-VIS
>open up, and it rises again till hitting max at 4800 RPM. So, w/o the
>T-VIS, you're either gonna get no low end (always open), or very bad top
>end (closed) which I know isn't the case. I also read that it's not
>on the GZE because the supercharger made up for the low end.
>
>Anyway, this had been my understanding that the T-VIS improves low end.
---
* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 12:42:17 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: corolla@mcs.com, tm@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota@quack.kfu.com
Subject: O2 sensor?
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com,corolla@mcs.com,toyota@quack.kfu.com
Just curious:
I have 102,000 km on my 88 Corolla GTS and have never replaced the
oxygen sensor. I noticed in my 92 truck manual that it says to replace
it at 100,000km.
1) Has anyone done this?
2) Is it necessary? (I like to get the best HP out of my car)
3) Has anyone found a place/supplier who sells these for less than
the $400 they want from the dealer?
4) Could I/should I replace this myself or is it too much of a
pain....I am an electrical person, not mechanical
Thanks!
Fredo
88 Corolla GTS - CSP
(fredo@mbnet.mb.ca)
---
* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 14:01:08 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
Fred, My haynes manual seems to indicate an adjusting screw
for the t-vis activation point which is based on vaccum
Maybe all you need to do is adjust this screw?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 11:14:22 PDT
From: wg%rmats1@Riem.Com (Wayne R. Graves)
Subject: RE: O2 sensor?
To: Fred_Oberbuchner%MBnet.MB.CA%rmats1@Riem.Com, tm@su102a.ess.harris.com,
Hey fred, I have 180,000k miles on my gts and haven't replaced mine yet. Of
course maybe I should have.
Wayne
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 14:17:09 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Turbo mufflers
Jim writes:
----- Begin Included Message -----
Chris,
I remember you talking about adding a turbo muffler to your truck a
while back and the chart you sent with the numbers on it. I just
installed a cat back system on mine, using 2.25" pipe and a Walker
Dynomax turbo (not SuperTurbo) muffler. It is still pretty quiet,
especially above 2000rpm. Only time it makes any noise is between
1200-2000rpm and its just a low frequency rumble. Seems to have a
little more grunt, but it's not real noticeable. The hiss of the
stock exhaust is gone, replaced by a nice mellow sound. Cost was
about $65 with me doing the install. I'm going to be running in
the cinders this weekend, so I can tell if I really have more power
or not after that. Just thought you might be interested. You can
post it to the list if it seems appropriate.
Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.mot.com
----- End Included Message -----
Completely appropriate! Actually, although I did post that muffler
info, I still have a stock muffler on my truck. If anyone else is
interested in that muffler article, its on the Toyota Mods Web site,
http://su102a.ess.harris.com.
BTW Jim, we now expect a full writeup on your results this coming
weekend!
Chris
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
Cc: corolla@mcs.com, tm@su102a.ess.harris.com, toyota@quack.kfu.com
Subject: Re: O2 sensor?
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 11:49:33 -0700
From: danapple@vicor.com
> "Fred J. Oberbuchner" writes:
> To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com,corolla@mcs.com,toyota@quack.kfu.com
> Just curious:
> I have 102,000 km on my 88 Corolla GTS and have never replaced the
> oxygen sensor. I noticed in my 92 truck manual that it says to replace
> it at 100,000km.
> 1) Has anyone done this?
Yes.
> 2) Is it necessary? (I like to get the best HP out of my car)
Yes.
> 3) Has anyone found a place/supplier who sells these for less than
> the $400 they want from the dealer?
Yes.
> 4) Could I/should I replace this myself or is it too much of a
> pain....I am an electrical person, not mechanical
It's easy.
Now, to me more specific: At roughly 70,000 miles, my Supra failed a
smog check. It was running totally out of spec, 150% of allowable.
The smog check dude smelled the exhaust and told me it was running too
rich; go get a new O2 sensor and come back tomorrow. So, I went to a
local auto parts store and bought an aftermarket (Bosch?) 1 wire O2
sensor for about $60. Installation was easy as pie. Unbolt the old
one, pry off, cut the wire, splice the new one in, bolt in. This was
on a '86 Supra with 5MGE engine. I don't know if the Corrola O2
sensor is in a more difficult location. The O2 sensor made a huge
difference. The exhaust smelled better, the engine ran better, and
the smog check was down in the 1% of allowable range. Not bad.
If your's takes a 3 wire O2 sensor, the other two wires are for a
heating coil which heats the O2 sensor faster, so it starts
functioning sooner. I doubt that makes it much more expensive, but
perhaps.
> Thanks!
> Fredo
Dan.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 15:26:11 -0500
From: "Fred J. Oberbuchner"
To: TM@SU102A.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
>Fred, My haynes manual seems to indicate an adjusting screw
>for the t-vis activation point which is based on vaccum
>
>Maybe all you need to do is adjust this screw?
I found that the TVIS is controlled by a solenoid valve which
switches the vacuum to the mechanism which opens/closes the
TVIS "flapper" valves. This solenoid is driven by the EFI
computer. This was verified by experimentation and coincides
with what is in the factory manual.....
Could our 2 vehicles possibly be different????
88 Corolla GTS versus 87 MR2 (? or was it 89)
That would be really strange (but handy for you 'cause you
could adjust yours easily!).
Fredo (sumbunny buy my old wheels....whine/bitch/complain!)
p.s. YES, your messages are getting to the TM list!
---
* WaveRdr 1.10 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: mh@cypress.com (Marc Hartranft / Mgr. Tech. Development)
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS (fwd)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (toyota_mods)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 14:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: mh@cypress.com (Marc Hartranft / Mgr. Tech. Development)
> >
> > >Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
> > >the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
> > >better HP and improved torque at lower RPM.
> >
> > I wouldn't think so, infact, the T-VIS is there to improve low end
> > torque. If you look at the torque curve of the 4AGE, you can actually
> > see where the second "valve" or whatever opens up at about 4500 RPM.
> >
> > The curve hits a peak at 3500, then starts to fall, at 4000, the T-VIS
> > open up, and it rises again till hitting max at 4800 RPM. So, w/o the
> > T-VIS, you're either gonna get no low end (always open), or very bad top
> > end (closed) which I know isn't the case. I also read that it's not
> > on the GZE because the supercharger made up for the low end.
> >
> > Anyway, this had been my understanding that the T-VIS improves low end.
> >
>
It is interesting that this head was used on essentially a standard
4AGE and developed ~ 20 - 30 more HP according to Toyo spec!.. The
head on the standard 4AGE in conjunction with the TVIS looks like
it will experience lots more turbulence and hurt flow characteristics..
Removing the TVIS butterfly hardware actually improves HP (remember
for my application - I am running within 1500 - 2000 RPM of the redline)
at some loss of torque in the 3500 RPM region.
I was hoping somebody had already experimented with this head as it
was used on the Corolla GTS in the year when Toyota didn't have an
MR2 to sell! My impression is that the Corolla was pumped up to improve
the "sports car" image during that period.
Thanks for the help
Marc
>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 22 Jul 94 17:25:09 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
>> I seem to recall that there is someone on the list with a non-TVIS
>> Corolla GTS....we had chatted about this very fact but I must apologize to
>> him for not remembering who it was...(meekly: sorry)
I think the post-87 SR5 coupe has a 4AG with a TBI fuel system. Maybe that was
the source of confusion. Anyone know for sure?
>> I have a defeat switch on my TVIS control wire so I can open it
>> whenever I want to. With a free-flow system there is a seat-of-the-pants
>> difference if you open it at 3000-3500 rpm versus 4500 rpm.
That's interesting, how did you wire it?
>> I have thought of pulling the guts out of the TVIS to provide a
>> "cleaner" flow at high RPM but that would mean my already not-so-smooth
>> idle would become even worse. Would the added smoothness of the intake
>> ports actually help? Anyone ever seen the inside of a TVIS...is this even
>> possible?
Ya, you *could* pull out the butterfly's and seal the holes, I suppose. I
can't imagine this helping things, though. These engines have so little beans
down low, as it is. I would think that boring out the primary throttle body
would help much more with high-rev breathing, than bypassing the ACV.
>> A thinner metal head gasket would also raise the compression.....if I
>> run 92 or 94 octane fuel exclusively would this be ok without a knock
>> sensor??? (anyone)
I just changed the head gasket on my Corolla, and thought about trying the same
thing. But then I was reminded how frequently people have pinging problems
with these engines, so I went with the new and improved factory design.
>> Aside: I have a problem on hot days when I am in start-stop traffic
>> and driving "enthusiastically" I will accelerate rapidly, brake rapidly
>> for a red light and my rpm's will drop to idle at 1000 then fall below 500
>> and the engine will die. Any advice? This only happens on hot days though
>> when I have been "pushing" it for a while.
I've noticed 200-300 RPM drops in similar situations, but not 500 RPM drops
like you're experiencing. Don't know why it happens, maybe someone here does.
Kevin <86 Corolla GTS>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 22 Jul 94 17:25:14 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS
>> Maybe all you need to do is adjust this screw?
>From what I can tell by looking at the parts and reading the manual, and I'm no
tech mind you, is that vacuum is used to regulate the *amount* of secondary
opening. The when part is done electronically.
Kevin
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 22 Jul 94 17:36:40 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: AFM Mod Defies Logic
Many moons ago, I modified the AFM on my Corolla to finally rid myself of the
annoying part-throttle ping I'd been putting up with for so long, by turning
the gear a notch CCW. It worked.
Since I just cleaned up the head and piston tops, I figured I'd try the stock
setting, and see what happened. It ran better. Then I turned it a notch CW,
and it ran even better. One more notch, and it's jammin.
Why is this happening??
Kevin <86 Corolla GTS>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 22 Jul 94 17:36:42 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: TRD Mailer?
Everyone else get the TRD mailer, advertising a new 'tude and some lower
prices? So much for them leaving the US, sounds like they're waking up (good
morning).
Anyway, I got some questions about the stuff they have for my Corolla GTS:
There are several different 4AG valves, valve springs, and valve seats listed.
What the diffo between them, and from stock?
What does their Corolla front spoiler look like?
What's the tach for this car, does it fit in the stock panel?
What's all that 4AG oil pump stuff they're selling, parts for an outboard
piece? The one on my car is driven off the crank, and doesn't have any pulleys,
belts, or brackets, as far as I know.
What's a union filter housing?
Is their water pump block plate the stock piece?
Kevin <86 Corolla GTS>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 22 Jul 94 19:02:44 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Can You Hear Me?
Hello, hello, am I getting through? The Internet gateway through CIS keeps
sending back my messages as undeliverable.
Kevin
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 25 Jul 1994 14:11:35 U
From: "Jim Chott"
Subject: Re: AFM and Exhaust mod
To: "Toyota-Mods Mailing List"
>Can you be *real* specific?
I turned the cog wheel 4 notches counter clockwise (CCW). I was
trying to stop pinging using regular unleaded, but never quite made
it. It still pings when it is over 100F with the air on. And since
my mileage dropped a bit already, I stopped there and will continue to
use premium unleaded.
>(1) What do you mean by ``loosening the spring''? Do I have to
unscrew
>anything, or can I get by with sticking my fingers on the two sections
of
>the spring and turning the wheel?
The spring is a flat coil, sort of like a watch main spring. By
turning
the cog wheel CCW, it loosens the tension on the spring. I think to
lean things out, you want to go CW, which will tighten the spring,
allowing the air flow vane to move less, and make the engine think
there's less air, and match that with less fuel. There's a little
Phillips screw I loosened just enough to move the retainer for the
cog wheel. I marked the original position with a scribe and carefully
went one tooth at a time. If you let it get away from you, it would
probably be a Bad Thing (tm) and be difficult to get re-calibrated.
>This makes sense doesn't it? Don't I need to lean things out to
>compensate for higher elevation?
Yes. I live at about 1200' and only occasionally go to the mountains
where it is high altitude. If I lived up there, I'd re-tweak it for
the thin air.
----------------------------new topic------------------------
BTW, it was hard to tell how much the 2.25" exhaust helped at the
cinders. Overall, it did much better, but it was hard to tell exactly
why; too many changes since last year--the AFM mod, 4.88 gears, and
the exhaust. I was able to make it the farthest up some of the hills,
beating 4.0L Ford Rangers, and a Toyota with a turbo Buick V6. I'm
pretty happy with it's performance, especially for a 4 banger. One
guy with an Explorer and a 4.0L V6 was surprised that it was just a 4.
On the highway, it pulls hills better than a Cherokee with the 2.8L
V6 also. People have mostly stopped making rude comments about my
little engine now.
Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.mot.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:25:08 -0400
From: "ROGERS"
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re[2]: Atlantic spec 4AG
Greetings,
>"Is this 240 HP 4AGE engine street legal? I'm reading back posts
>that seem to think this engine is an alternative to turbocharging."
>This is a nice engine. But, it's about as streetable as the Swifts, Ralts,
and
>Renards it powers. Like the venerable Cosworth BD engine that it competes
with, it builds a large percentage of it's torque and power in the last
2500-3000 RPM. And like the Cosworth, it costs about $15K.
>You can get almost this same power, minus the incredible dynamics of the FA
>engine, with the 4A-GZE and about $1K worth of bolt on items (supercharger
>pulley, exhaust, vernier cam gears, cams).
>I'm still trying to figure out how to use the whole package, Swift chassis
>along with the engine, as a commuter!
There was a very informative article written in the June 94 British Mag "Max
power" on modifying the 4AGE. Later 4AGE's (I would say after 89 to be safe)
supposedly have a stronger crank, since they were redesigned with 42 mm big end
Journals vs the earlier cranks 40 mm. What this supposedly elimates, is the
tendency of the earlier cranks to crack at high revs (high meaning prolonged
use beyond 8000 RPM). DTW (A British aftermarket specialist on the 4AGE) has
yet to see one of the newer cranks break, and they estimate them to be good for
9000 RPM. Another point stemming from the article, is that the 4AGE block can
be bored (again they refer to the later blocks) to 82.5 mm safely, and with a
longer stroke crank, the absolute maximum displacement you can get on a 4AGE is
1760 cc's (However listed in the TRD Spec sheet for the 4AGE are 83 mm pistons)
Regarding the 240 BHP FA 4AGE, you would deffinitely need a close ratio gearbox
and an appropiately geared diff to utilise the narrow power band of 6000-9000
RPM, as for being street legal, I have seen worse things parading on the
streets as commuter vehicles. Due to the high lift cams on an atlantic spec
engine (over 11mm), they will not idle below 2000 RPM without problems,
however as I mentioned in another post, with the advent of fuel injection on
this years FA engines, the engines do sound extremely clean while revving in
the pits.
roger smith
rogers@golddisk.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:25:11 -0400
From: "ROGERS"
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: 4AGE T-VIS (fwd)
> >
> > >Does anybody have any experience with the 1990 Corolla GTS head for
> > >the 4AGE? The head is a NON-TVIS design and I would expect that theres
> > >better HP and improved torque at lower RPM.
> >
> > I wouldn't think so, infact, the T-VIS is there to improve low end
> > torque. If you look at the torque curve of the 4AGE, you can actually
> > see where the second "valve" or whatever opens up at about 4500 RPM.
> >
> > The curve hits a peak at 3500, then starts to fall, at 4000, the T-VIS
> > open up, and it rises again till hitting max at 4800 RPM. So, w/o the
> > T-VIS, you're either gonna get no low end (always open), or very bad top
> > end (closed) which I know isn't the case. I also read that it's not
> > on the GZE because the supercharger made up for the low end.
> >
> > Anyway, this had been my understanding that the T-VIS improves low end.
> >
>
> It is interesting that this head was used on essentially a standard
> 4AGE and developed ~ 20 - 30 more HP according to Toyo spec!.. The
> head on the standard 4AGE in conjunction with the TVIS looks like
> it will experience lots more turbulence and hurt flow characteristics..
> Removing the TVIS butterfly hardware actually improves HP (remember
> for my application - I am running within 1500 - 2000 RPM of the redline)
> at some loss of torque in the 3500 RPM region.
> I was hoping somebody had already experimented with this head as it
> was used on the Corolla GTS in the year when Toyota didn't have an
> MR2 to sell! My impression is that the Corolla was pumped up to improve
> the "sports car" image during that period.
Some time last year, I spoke to RJ at TRD about the later 4AGE engines, ( the
ones without the TVIS system), and he stated that the intake runners on these
Heads are closer than on the older designs. With the closer intake runners, the
flow through the head is better at low RPM, I think it was something like 10%
better flow characteristics. The whole conversation came about, because I
noticed that TRD had listed a price for a 4AGE head in their catalog of US
$500, what this head is, is a Spanking new head from the Toyota casting unit
(complete with the closer intake runners) which TRD has made available to
engine builders as a starting point for modifications (More So for FA engine
builders) (You can enlarge smaller ports, but you can't go the other way
easily).
The only way to get low end torque, is to have good port velocity (Flow
through the head), which is somewhat difficult with the siamesed ports on the
4AGE head (done so that 1 injector feeds two ports) the TVIS system was the
first work around, the second work around was to eliminate the TVIS system, and
have narrower intake runners, with a slightly increased compression ratio.
Roger Smith
rogers@golddisk.com
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From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Another Question on Air Flow Meters
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 12:13:35 -0400 (ADT)
Howdy All,
Kevin's recent query (and my subsequent interchange with him) has sparked
a renewed interest in me to attempt to modify the settings in my AFM.
Here's why: When I moved from a locale that was approximately at sea level
to one on the order of 7000 ft, I noticed a drastic drop in power output
from my truck (an 85 4x4). I looked in the factory manual, and, for
carburated trucks, there is a device known as an HAC (high altitude
compensator), but there is nothing for a fuel injected engine (at least
that's publicized). So, I go down to the dealer to ask what the deal is.
The service manager tells me that it's all internally controlled via the
ECU and that there is nothing that can be done to the EFI engines other
than to advance the timing a bit. Well, I had already advanced mine to
the ping boundary and I was still not satisfied with the power output.
So, you can imagine how I got quite interested when the thread regarding
this AFM came up. I mean, these EFI engines are based on air volume, not
oxygen density, so it makes sense to me that such an adjustment might be
useful.
I pulled the cover off of my AFM (after carefully removing the silicon
bead) and I took a look---there didn't seem to be anything in my unit
that's adjustable. There's a hex head bolt approximately in the middle
of the whole array, and a cogged piece of plastic at the bottom with an
in-plane spring gizmo holding it in its position. Nothing else though.
Does anyone out there know anything about this?
thanks,
john
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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 13:03:41 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: rogers@golddisk.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Atlantic spec 4AG
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Roger you sound like the 4AGE expert I was told was on the list, but that
he was moving or something. Might that be you?
First off, what do you drive, if it has a 4AGE? What kind of mods if
any have you seen on a 4AGE. I have an '87 MR2, in the shop right now,
but if It ever gets fixed, my next move is a major HP increase. I've
been in contact with PAECO about a supposedly EFI campatible engine close
to 200 HP N/A. I've talked to Toysport about a turbo kit, and I could
get intouch with Select Sales who supposedly might be able to do something.
TRD had nothing to offer me after I sent them a letter. What can I expect
to get out of this engine for $4000+? If my car doesn't start acting normal
again, I may get an MR2 Turbo or RX-7 Twin Turbo.
Do you have a copy of the Britsh mag Max Power with the 4AGE article? I'd like
to see it!!
To the rest of you regarding the 5AGE which I got from a post here, and I brought
it up again The engine cover on the HKS modified 4AGE said: HKS ENGINE 5AGX
I mentioned Friday that I thought it was a 2.0L 5AGX, and I was right, what ever
it is...
Mark Sink
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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 13:26:16 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Cutting progressive rate springs!?
Cc: msink@gateway.bsis.com
Question: Is their any possiblity of lowering a car by cutting a portion of
the compressed coils from a progressive rate spring?
Theory: Once a coil is completely compressed (in contact with next coil) the weight
of the car is then transfered to the next coil. Meaning that the coil which was been
compressed is not bearing any weight of the car, but is transfering it all to the
next coil. Is this the case?
When this happens 4 or 5 times, that is, once the
car is lowered, their are 5 rings of the coil which are completely compressed,
and up against each other, until the rate of the stiffer part of the spring
starts bearing some of the weight, and the coils are no longer compressed.
If the compressed part of the spring comprises about 2 inches, are their any bad
side affects that might come about after removing an 1" worth of the compressed
coils?
I would think at some point, when lifting the car, the spring may remove itself from
the housing, at which point lowring it, it would not be on track..
I would not think this would happen while driving, unless you were to become
air-born.
The reason I ask is this, the right front side of my car is higher than the other side.
about .5". The car was wrecked before I got it.... but I had the thing put on a
frame machine and the claimed it was OK.
I put in Eibach springs which helped a little, but the difference is still there.
Now, I've never been one for cut springs, but in this case, would it hurt? I can see
that with stock springs, you are asking the remaining coils to bear the load, which
can weaken them, but with progressive rate springs, which about 4 to 5 of the coils
are NOT bearing any load, is it OK to remove some of that to lower the car??
My other alternative is to sell these TRD/Eibach springs, and ket the coil over
kit from Ground Control, which may not handle as well as TRD springs. Which leads
me to ask.. Anyone bought these "generic" kits for adjustable ride height? Chris I
think you use them, and mentioned the rate is adjustable which also lowers the car.
Thanks,
Mark Sink
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From: Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com
Date: 25 Jul 94 11:21:02 -0700
To: toyota-mods#064#su102a.ess.harris.com%smtpgw@email3.sps.mot.com
Subject: RE>Another Question on Air
>I pulled the cover off of my AFM (after carefully removing the silicon
>bead) and I took a look---there didn't seem to be anything in my unit
>that's adjustable. There's a hex head bolt approximately in the middle
>of the whole array, and a cogged piece of plastic at the bottom with an
>in-plane spring gizmo holding it in its position. Nothing else though.
>
>Does anyone out there know anything about this?
The cogged piece of plastic at the bottom is sort of like the pre-load
adjustment on the spring which controls the air flow meter vane.
Loosening the little spring gizmo and turning the cogged wheel changes
the amount of spring preload on the vane which in turn adjusts how much
it moves in relation to the air flow. By changing this signal, it
changes how much fuel the ECU delivers for a given amount of air flow.
I wrote earlier how richening mine gave it quite a bit more power at
low elevations. At 7500' this weekend, it developed a bit of a
stumble at 2000 rpm, part throttle conditions, like it was running
rich. At full throttle, it seemed okay. I think next time I will
adjust it while I am up there to see if it makes any difference.
Jim Chott 1985 Toyota 4x4 with 22RE
rzaa80@email.mot.com
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From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: RE>Another Question on Air
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 14:56:09 -0400 (ADT)
Ah Jim,
Of course it was you... I do vaguely remember your discussion on this
matter, but I've forgotten the details.
Jim_Chott-RZAA80@email3.sps.mot.com wrote:
>
> The cogged piece of plastic at the bottom is sort of like the pre-load
> adjustment on the spring which controls the air flow meter vane.
> Loosening the little spring gizmo and turning the cogged wheel changes
> the amount of spring preload on the vane which in turn adjusts how much
> it moves in relation to the air flow. By changing this signal, it
> changes how much fuel the ECU delivers for a given amount of air flow.
Can you be *real* specific?
(1) What do you mean by ``loosening the spring''? Do I have to unscrew
anything, or can I get by with sticking my fingers on the two sections of
the spring and turning the wheel?
(2) Do you have any idea of which direction effectively leans things out?
>
> I wrote earlier how richening mine gave it quite a bit more power at
> low elevations. At 7500' this weekend, it developed a bit of a
> stumble at 2000 rpm, part throttle conditions, like it was running
> rich.
This makes sense doesn't it? Don't I need to lean things out to
compensate for higher elevation?
cheers,
john
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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 15:22:27 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Marks post about cutting springs and adjustable spring rates
I would be very careful cutting any springs, especially progressives.
You can get away with this sort of stuff in asphalt oval track racing,
but you can get yourself in trouble on the street.
If I cut off the end of a progressive-rate spring, I'm not sure which
end I'd cut, actually. It could well end up being the wrong one.
If you have one side sitting lower than the other, and the frame machine
says you are straight, you may have a bad spring. You might be well off
to take your springs in to a spring and axle shop and have them
checked.
Those adjustable spring rate struts/coil-overs are absolutely the
bees-knees (ask an old geezer like Gary G. what that means, you kids
;-), but they are big bucks too. If you are thinking about doing this,
and are into quick and dirty solutions (or engineering prototypes, as I
like to think of them, try this:
Cut the bottom of the spring bucket off of your stock strut (obviously
after you remove the spring.) Get a set of springs that will just fit
over your strut body. Use two muffler clamps, with the "U" part
removed, bolted together over the strut body as a base for the spring to
ride on. Put everything back together and adjust the clamps up and down
until you get the ride height you are looking for. Now, the key thing
is that you still get full travel. You can check downward extent of
travel by just putting a wire wrap around the rod of the strut, and then
going for a drive. The compressing action of the strut will move the
wire wrap up so you can see where it hit its maximum compression. If
you are at/very near the end of the strut rod, you are too short.
Either you'll have to get a stiffer spring, or modify your entire setup
so that your strut stabilizes in a longer position.
Checking the upward (outward) travel is not as easy. Carrera states
that running out of spring length can be a problem, (for exact reasons
that I don't recall) and they handle it by putting a very light sprint
under your normal spring. If totally unloaded, this light spring keeps
a little pressure on the normal spring, preventing it from jumping out
of position (or whatever the problem is...)
Get ya' some of those $160 each Carrera Aluminum adjustable coil-overs!
That's the ticket! Sorry, you'll have to completely rebuild your
suspension to accept shocks rather than struts, but that's a small (yeah
right) price to pay for perfection!
Or, those adjustable generic kits are a good idea too. Still, I
wouldn't want to use them with springs that I was not sure about.
Chris
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Date: 25 Jul 94 23:51:18 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Another Question on Air Flow Meters
>> I pulled the cover off of my AFM (after carefully removing the silicon
>> bead) and I took a look---there didn't seem to be anything in my unit
>> that's adjustable. There's a hex head bolt approximately in the middle of
>> the whole array, and a cogged piece of plastic at the bottom with an
>> in-plane spring gizmo holding it in its position. Nothing else though.
The cogged peice of plastic is what you need to turn. There's a "W" shaped
piece of wire holding it in place. First, make a mark on the wheel where the
wire intercepts a notch. Grip the wheel (if you let it unwind, you're
screwed), loosen the clamp's screw, then take a very small screwdriver and pry
the wire away from the notch. Turning the gear clock-wise leans the mixture,
according to something TRD used to publish. When you get the results you like
(you might consider going back to stock timing), seal it up with some good
silicone.
Kevin
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From: k124476@ee.tut.fi (Kalalahti Matti)
Subject: Adding an oxygen sensor
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 17:47:55 EET DST
I'll be adding an oxygen sensor to save some fuel (I have
averaged 18.4mpg so far) while cruising on the highways, as well
as to get information on the mixture. Now,
1) Where can I get a *cheap* generic oxygen sensor?
Address/price, please...
2) Where should I install it? The pipe after the turbo would
be the easiest place, but is it hot enough (or even
occasionally TOO hot, if possible)?
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 173+hp * 246Nm@4800
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 09:37:24 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: adding members
>From time to time, folks ask me "What's the deal on asking folks to join
the Toyota-Mods group?" like Mark asked me this morning. Well, I
haven't discussed that in a while, so I'll discuss it a bit.
While we aren't an "exclusive" group, we do try to limit the membership
to either folks who know a lot about Toyota (or other automobile)
performance modifications, or those who really want to learn about
them. For that reason, we don't advertise our existance. The other day
I went through the book store and found about a zillion Internet
directories, and miraculously we aren't in any of them! (The regular
Toyota list was in most of them, BTW.) This is only due to our members
respecting our "no advertising" policy.
On the other hand, we need good people to have a good list, and we
certainly don't have all of the Toyota guru's on the internet in our
group yet. Even if we did, the internet is growing at a rate of (some
estimate) 10% per month (at least in traffic volume) so we should be
finding new members as appropriate.
We've never dis-allowed anyone to join the group. Everyone who's asked
for inclusion, and who has sent information on themselves, has been
added. That's the key. When FredO started the Toyota Mods group, he
encouraged everyone to send in their "me/mine/mods" info. Tom and I
decided it was such a good idea that when I took the group over, we
began to _require_ it. When someone sends me a blank email with
"subscribe" in the subject line, or when I meet someone on the net that
seems to be a good candidate for membership, I send out the "announce"
letter. (I've attached this to the end of this email.) This explains
how our group works and who is a good candidate. Based on that email,
prospective members seem to do an adequate job of qualifying
_themselves_. If they are too uninterested/unmotivated/whatever to send
back their me/mine/mods based on that letter, they probably wouldn't be
a good member anyway.
At any rate, save and edit the "announce" text at the end of this email,
and keep it handy. Anytime in your wanderings across cyberspace that
you meet a sharp Toyota-kinda person, mail it to them. We need to
actively recruit _sharp_, motivated folks to make this list the best it
can be.
(Thanks for the question, Mark S.!)
Chris
-----"announce" letter-----
Subject: Addition to Toyota-Mods Mailing List
Thank you for your request to be added to the toyota-mods mailing list.
This is a relatively small list (about 50 people) who are heavily into
Toyota performance modifications. We are not an elitist group, but we
do like to limit our membership to those with either a strong working
knowledge of performance and/or Toyota's, or those who have a strong
desire to learn these subjects. Most members of the Toyota-mods list
are also members of the regular Toyota list:
toyota@quack.sac.ca.us
which is more appropriate for questions of an economic
(price/reliability)
or basic (bleeding brakes, troubleshooting alternators) nature.
To subscribe to the Toyota-mods list, send information describing
yourself,
your car, any modifications you have made, and any other comments to:
To: toyota-mods-request@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
*Please* include at least the following information:
Name :
Location : (city/country where you live or work)
Model : (e.g. 1986 Celica GTS -- please be as specific as
possible)
Engine : (e.g. 3S-GE -- please be specific, several versions may
exist)
Mods : (e.g. added turbo, modified suspension, etc.)
email :
Once this information is received, you'll be added to the list and sent
the
address where to make future posts to the list.
Thanks for your cooperation!
-----End of "announce" letter-----
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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 22:26:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: Darin Ray Hamilton
Subject: impending death of the beloved MR2
To: Toyota Mods Mailing List
Cc: MR2 Interest Mailing List
I invite you all to ponder this question:
"Why is Toyota (allegedly) considering putting an end to MR2 production?"
The MR2 has been considered the only "affordable exotic" and has recently
been ranked as the 2nd best "Bang-for-the-Buck" car in Morth America by
Motor Trend magazine. Also being the only mid-engined sports car
available for under US$60,000 it has found itself a unique market niche.
Why then is this car stagnating, both in terms of market share and in
terms of R&D? Why doesn't Toyota pull up its boot straps and make a car
that will compete with the American pony-cars in their price range?
Please forgive my rambling, but despite seeing numerous magazine ads
promoting the MR2 I feel that Toyota is abandoning one of the best cars
in modern production. Just recently, I saw a TV ad which contained every
Toyota model EXCEPT the MR2!
Does ANYONE know of a way to lobby Toyota into revitalizing the MR2?
Is there any way to tell then that a LOT of us will pay $30K for a MkIII
(yes III) MR2 if such a thing was available?
My MR2 wishlist:
- keep the general looks/size/shape... and handling too
- update the front end, but keep the pop-up headlights to stay unique :)
- more POWER!
the Z28 does 0-60 in under 5.5sec for <$25,000...
250bhp would top this! :)
- MARKET the thing!!! Make it something people will consider BUYING!
Apologies, again, for my rambling.
I just hate to see Toyota letting such a great car go down the tubes...
Darin... '86 MR2
(. )(. )
------------------------------------###--\/\/\/\/--###-------
Darin Ray Hamilton
Faculty of Management, University of Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
e-mail: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
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Date: 27 Jul 94 04:15:30 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: impending death of the beloved MR2
"Why is Toyota (allegedly) considering putting an end to MR2 production?"
Because accountants have seized the company. And it's not just the MR2, Toyota
is screwing up all over the place. The MR2 isn't safe until they fix the
corporate culture which is producing their first-ever duds (T100 and certainly
Avalon), killing the performance cars (where's a Corolla GTS?), and saddling
the company with such a dated, out-of-touch image. Watch for Toyota's US
market share to slip dramatically over the next few years.
Kevin
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:44:22 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: drhamilt@acs.ucalgary.ca
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
And don't degrade the MR2 line with a 135 HP version. Mazda did the right thing
with the RX-7.
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 19:08:33 +0500
From: hacker@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jonathan Hacker 21420)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: Tires (forgive me... :) )
> I'm enjoying my second set of Yokohama A509's
> Probably the best price/performance ratio avail.
>
> They don't last me long tho, 15-20K, but I too
> drive and brake hard. I feel they give good performance,
> but if you can go to $100, maybe you'de like something
> better. Maybe an AVS Intermediate. With a stock car, I
> wouldn't spend too much on tires, it wouldn't be worth
> it. With my upgraded susp. my next set will certainly cost
> more, even if I don't go to 15" or 16".
I second that! My A509's have been a good compromise on the
street, and they're reasonably priced.
Jon
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:15:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott Stone
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
To: Darin Ray Hamilton
Cc: Toyota Mods Mailing List ,
You can get an extra 25bhp by simply installing an HKS exhaust and an
HKS/K&N air filter (in a MkII Turbo). I've considered making a commercial
for the MR2 myself - videotape it being autocrossed, driven on the
freeway, fitting 10 bags of groceries into the trunk, driving uphill on a
dirt/rock road with the CD player on and NOT skipping (I was impressed
when I actually did this in Butterfield Canyon, near Tooele, Utah). I
think that these clips put together (with some music, logos, disclaimers,
etc) would make a good MR2 commercial. I wonder if I should call/Write
Toyota and offer this suggestion?
----------------
* Scott Stone
* 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo * B-Stock (soon to be A-stock in 1995)
* Utah Region SCCA - Member #J223893
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 12:42:45 EDT
From: Steven_Jackson.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
To: UNIXML::"toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com"@lotus.com
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
Darin writes:
I invite you all to ponder this question:
"Why is Toyota (allegedly) considering putting an end to MR2 production?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, at least some insight to the answer to this question is that sales of the
MR2 are microscopic on major-manufacturer terms. Toyota isn't making money on
this car, and may be loosing money. I have an issue of Autoweek from sometime
last spring that has a nice article chronicaling the MR2. It shows production
or sales figures, I don't remember off the top of my head. The trends of both
the Mk I and Mk II cars are almost identical. I remember the Mk I figures.
First year of the MR2 Mk I, there were almost 30K cars produced or sold, by
'89, this number was down to less than 5K cars. The Mk II car is trending the
same way. When I get back from this business trip I can supply more specifics.
The MR2 is a wonderful car. I think though, the Camaro is a cheater. It's
crude but effective. I have to hand it to GM to produce a car with its
performance numbers at such a low price point. They've done a good job of
developing and refining the Camaro's simple technology into a car that's
finally actually almost formidable. Though a long way from world class, at
that price, the balance is impressive. I didn't begrudge it's winning
bang-for-the-buck comparisons.
I think the MR2 might be a viable platform to yet develop into a higher
performance car, but the next development I think would bring it into RX-7 R1
and Corvette price territory. It certainly wouldn't win any bang-for-the-buck
comparisons in this price range, just like the RX-7 and Corvette don't.
I wouldn't call the MR2 a failure. It's been around a while, gone through a
number of development cycles, two generations, etc.
- S
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 12:15:10 -0700
To: autox@autox.team.net
From: cal@fins.lanl.gov (Cal Smith)
Subject: Streeting on Gummies
Cc: uunet!su102a.ess.harris.com!toyota-mods@uunet.uu.net,
Yogi the Aggie wrote:
> But again, I do not see
>anyone driving everyday on A008RSII or R1's. (possible exception:
>friend of mine used to do that on Yokohama 08 ??? or some old racing
>compound. He says that he got more than 20k miles out of them.
>I guess evrything has exceptions except this one)
I have a not-so-light '91 MR2-Turbo. It is not the heaviest thing
on the street, but I swear, Toyota must hidden 500lbs. of Depleted Uranium
slugs in the chassis to get the thing into the 2700-2900lb range. What are
my street tires? BFG R1's in 230 compound. Three main points differentiate
this tire from a "normal" street tire:
1) stiff sidewalls, assymetric carcass.
Very stiff sidewalls, tempered on the street by adjustable Tokico
shocks on a soft setting. The suspension moves more, as the tire translates
more of the bumps to the mechanicals. Oh well, I can stand the wear. As for
the assymetric carcass, yes, the car has more bump steer. If an
assymetrical carcass (in the Yoko A022 street tire) is good enough for the
NSX and the new MR2's, it's OK by me (the MR2T in the Motor Trend "Bang for
the Buck" test was shod with the Yokos).
2) Soft Compound, Reduced tread depth = shorter tire life on the street
From previous net postings, the projected life of these tires in
competition is on the order of 120 min./set. This is about a year of
frequent autocrossing. R1 life on the street, by BFG estimates, on the
order of 10-15K miles (*iff* you treat them nicely). I call it 12K. I drive
about 150 miles/week and the tires will be on the car for about 7 months. This
comes to about 4500 miles, or 38% of the tire life.
If I dedicate 62% of the tire life to autocross, I get 75 min.
competition time. If a typical course is one minute long and you average
four runs/day, I can attend 19 events on a set of tires and still use
them for the street. If they are used for competition only, 30 events can
be run.
Why would I want to reduce the competition life of the tire (as
well as let it heat-cycle,...)? I have a GREAT set of street tires that can
out-stick any "real" street tire. Also, and more importantly, I don't have
the $$$ to have a set of racing tires/wheels and a great set of street
tires/wheels. To come anywhere near this level of stick with "street tires"
would require about $1300 in 16" alloys and Yoko 45-series Intermediates.
Hell, for $1300, you can buy 3 sets of the R1 in the 205/55-14 size I need.
Tire wear on stock wheels means I can put aside money for next year's "hot"
compound. I might need new tires after one season, but with the R1's, I get
great grip on the OEM rims! I can worry about putting money into the
rolling rubber retaining rings, and not what to do with four fancy alloy
coasters/end tables/footrests...(But maybe a fancy guide to alliteration
would be nice ;-))
3) Tread with poor wet-weather characteristics.
Them's the breaks. I live in a relatively dry area, so most of the
time, no problem. When wet weather comes, I just slow down a little to
avoid plowing through standing water. That *could* be a Rolaids moment. As
for sticking to plain-old wet pavement, traction is traction. The R1's have
great grip on wet surfaces, to the point that the big puddles form.
When winter comes, on go the Eagle GT+4's that the car came with
(FrozenAquaTreads). I like that I do not drive on these during the summer.
The warm-weather performance is lousy, and I save the miles on them until
they are needed.
In closing, I think some of these "purpose-built racing tires" are
indeed *very* streetable. Ideal, no, but nothing is. If you can live with
the treadlife and standing-water limitations, they give phenomenal results.
Perhaps most importantly, they allow you to markedly raise your car's
limits without changing wheel size, allowing you to bank the money and buy
"MORE TIRES" when these go to pot.
YMMV, IMHO, and yes--this has been an opinionated, unsolicited, one-sided,
dinosaur-juice-consumin', high-cholesterol diatribe (whew...).
Cal
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:29:16 MST
From: groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves)
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Tires (forgive me... :) )
Cc: groves@noao.edu
Hello. I'm sitting here flat on my back after neck/cancer surgery.
My pure stock 85 MR2 is in the driveway with a slashed/destroyed
back tire. The Current tires are Falken FX060 I'd like a few
suggestions of alternatives. The Falkens where new when I bought
the car, and I got 30K mi out of them. But they are almost bald
now...
My dad is getting me a new set of tires as a get well present, and
I would like to know what to send him after. I live in AZ so
all weather really doesn't apply here. Give me some ideas of what
can be had in the $100/tire (or less) range. It wold be nice if
they'd make it two years or 24K miles. I do drive *hard* on the road
up to the observatory where I work. (Kitt Peak outside of tucson.
Try it. You'll like it!) On that run, I'm typically taking the
"posted 25 mph" curves at 55-60.
As I said before, the car is 100% stock with factory alloy's.
I'd do more reasearch myself, but I just don't have the energy at
the moment. You can post here, or just e-mail me.
thanks for your help!
lee
groves@noao.edu
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 16:41:42 EDT
From: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
To: groves@noao.edu
Subject: Re: Tires (forgive me... :) )
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
I'm enjoying my second set of Yokohama A509's
Probably the best price/performance ratio avail.
They don't last me long tho, 15-20K, but I too
drive and brake hard. I feel they give good performance,
but if you can go to $100, maybe you'de like something
better. Maybe an AVS Intermediate. With a stock car, I
wouldn't spend too much on tires, it wouldn't be worth
it. With my upgraded susp. my next set will certainly cost
more, even if I don't go to 15" or 16".
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 14:50:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: Lance Heinrich
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
To: Darin Ray Hamilton
Cc: Toyota Mods Mailing List ,
Darin,
Near as I could gather from various Toyota articles, etc. is that there
is really only one main reason why they are discontinuing the MR2 - SALES.
The market for this kind of car just isn't there. The car is still too
expensive (new at least) for most young people in or just out of school
that drool over two-seat sports cars and don't have kids, etc. to worry
about therefore being able to justify it. The other group that buys two
seat sports cars are people that can afford at least two cars and if they
have a family, they also have to have significant enough money to justify
this kind of car. Most of these people tend to have enough money to buy
something even more exotic (read - *expensive*) thus explaining the much
larger numbers of 300ZX, Stealth Turbos, Porches, Mercedes, etc.
Those of us who have actually bought our 2nd generation MR2's new are
definitely a rare breed.
I realize some of the significant generalizations I have made in the
above, but basically on a worldwide production basis, this is kind of how
the picture looks to Toyota. They are a large production quantity
company and it probably isn't real profitable (and doesn't help their
image _that_ much) to produce a model in small quantities.
Lance.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Lance Heinrich, P.Eng. Valmet Automation (Canada) Ltd. |
| SAGE Systems Division |
| lanceh@sa-cgy.valmet.com |
| Telephone: (403) 253-8848 |
| 1991 MR2 Turbo Fax: (403) 259-2926 |
| Previous MR2's : '86 Normally Aspirated, '89 Supercharged |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:35:12 -0700
To: uunet!validgh.com!mr2-interest@uunet.uu.net
From: cal@fins.lanl.gov (Cal Smith)
Subject: Second-Coming of the MR2
Cc: uunet!su102a.ess.harris.com!toyota-mods@uunet.uu.net, autox@autox.team.net
Darin Ray Hamilton, on the Toyota and MR2 lists, writes:
>My MR2 wishlist:
>
>- keep the general looks/size/shape... and handling too
>- update the front end, but keep the pop-up headlights to stay unique :)
>- more POWER!
> the Z28 does 0-60 in under 5.5sec for <$25,000...
> 250bhp would top this! :)
>- MARKET the thing!!! Make it something people will consider BUYING!
The biggest problems Toyota has had with peddling these things are:
1) Target market
2) Insurance rates
It plays out like this: Produce a car which gives mid-engine fun at
a relatively affordable price. No, you won't go as fast as a Ferrari or a
Lambo, but the again, most people can't afford one of these upscale toys.
You can take it for granted that this is a magical formula that teen- and
twenty-somethings lust for. Toyota, however, wants the 30- and 40-year-old
demographic--as seen from the *only* advertisement for the MR-2 in print
(buy one of these before you need bifocals, etc...). The problem with the
30-40 group is disposable income.
Okay, we all know that an MR2 is a relatively impractical car. You
are not going to get a spouse and kids in it for a trip to grandma's, and
you are not going to get more than a few days groceries into the trunk(s).
So, how are you going to sell a 25-30K car to someone who is putting kids
through school and paying off an average house note if it is totally
impractical? This has been Toyota's biggest stumbling block.
Enter the kids (like myself). Most of us would forget practicality
and sell our souls to a lower power for the keys to an Italian exotic.
Because the devil has no current leasing agreements with Ferrari, etc., we
try as hard as we can to get into an MR2. Quite a few of us have managed to
get one, but our biggest obstacle is insurance. These folks, rightly or
wrongly, give us astronomical insurance rates on an MR2. In a lot of cases,
it would cost more to insure the car than to buy it.
So Toyota is left in a quandry. They have people who would be easy
to insure but have little disposable income, and people who would find a
way to buy one, but probably can't find a way to insure it.
The result is: ..............a car that has seen virtually no
changes/upgrades in the last four model years while price increases far
outstrip inflation/cost-of-living increases. The "same" car in '94 costs
8-10K more than in '91. Are we paying more? yes. Are we getting more? no.
If Toyota makes one of these cars, they have a certain amount of
overhead that has to get paid. When they sell tons of the model, the
overhead (and even R&D for future models) gets amortized to the point that
the consumer doesn't feel much of an impact. If they sell only a few, those
big $$$$ costs get passed on to the consumer in a very noticeable manner.
If Ferrari sold boatloads of 348's, the consumer cost/unit would fall
dramatically. If quantities rose, it simply would not cost 5-7 times more
than an MR2 to produce.
Having stated the economies-of-scale point, the question needs to
be asked--where does Toyota want to go with this car. The options are:
1) discontinue car
2) Keep car the same with no changes
3) Change/redesign car
I am an MR2 fan I wanted one ever since I test-drove one in '85 (I
had a brand-new license then). I now have a '91-Turbo, which I like very
much. All told, though, Toyota needs to avoid option 2) and only consider
options 1) and 3). I know I'll catch a lot of flak on this, but from
Toyota's perspective and mission, these are the only options that make
sense in the long run.
If they went with option 2), the car would become their albatross.
Everyone in the media would refer jokingly to the outdated car, in the same
way that the 1994 (and previous) Ford Mustang is lambasted for using what
amounts to a 1979 Ford Fairmont chassis. Better to go out in a blaze of
glory than fade away slowly in mediocrity. Going out in a blaze of glory
is, of course, option 1). Now, here's what I propose Toyota do with option
3):
Focus the target market down to the people who want the ultimate in
performance and who will pay for it. If the market supports $37K RX-7Turbos
and $48K Supra Turbos, it is logical to assume that Toyota could produce a
flagship 2-seat beast for somewhere between the $37 and 48K. As the Supra
is more akin to the Porsche 928 than the MR2, it is not really a
high-agility, nimble car. It is made for cruising long, open stretches of
highway at speeds approaching 180mph.
The RX-7, rather, is the design that Toyota needs to use as a baseline:
light, nimble, *wonderful* suspension, with enough power to keep it on par
with todays hot rods. Here is a model that Toyota could use:
Specification: Standard MR2 MR2Turbo Mr2Turbo-R Model
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight, lbs.: 2300 2400 2200
Weight distribution: -------------as close to 50/50 as possible-----------
Engine: 3.0l I-6 3.0l I-6, twin turbo 3.0l I-6, twin turbo
w/ Intercooler w/ Intercooler
Power Output: 210 Hp 350 Hp 400 Hp
Min Octane: 87 87 91
Transmission: -5 spd. man std., opt. 6 spd. man, opt 4spd auto on base-
Differential: open, opt. Torsen Torsen Torsen
Wheels: ---Alloy, 16x8 front, 16x9 rear--- Alloy, 17x10 f&r
Tires: -BFG CompTA3 or Yoko Intermediate- BFG Comp TA-R1 or
Yoko A008RSII
-----225/45-16 f, 245/45-16 r----- 315/35-17 f&r
Brakes: -------f&r vented disks, opt.performance-tuned ABS-------
-12" f, 2 piston, 11" r, 1 piston-
-14"f, 4-piston, 13"rear, 2-piston-----
(larger brakes opt. on MR2T)
Steering: ---Pwr Assist., Quick Ratio------- Opt. big-resevoir
pwr., quick ratio
Suspension: -----------------4-wheel double-wishbone-----------------
Shock Absorbers: -------Gas Charged------------------ Tokico Illumina
Gas Adjustable
Springs: ------variable-rate coil------------ constant-rate coil,
0.5-1" lowering
Camber Adj. Range: -------- +0.5, -1.5 degree-------- +0,-3 degree
Sway Bars: decent sized, bigger still, even bigger, adj. rear
rubber bushings rubber bushings polyurethane bushings
Body Trim: -----Opt. fog lights, f&r spoiler, T-tops, mud flaps-----
Notes: -Lots of amenities optional--------- Almost nothing else
available that would
add weight. Boost-
control device & addnl.
gauges std. Water inj.
std. Jacobs ignition
controller, HKS
Powerflow air cleaner,
Straight pipe after
low-restriction cat.
converters.
-Turbos are twin AeroDyne VATN units, capable
of 580hp per pair. Positive pressure by 1400
rpm, full boost by 2000 rpm. Compressor
output in parallel.-------------------------
Price: 17K base 25K base 36-48K base
_____________________________________________________________________________
These ideas will create a lot of discussion--I say let's discuss.
If need be, I'll create a listing just to toss these ideas around. Hell,
lets see if anybody at Toyota will participate, even if only
"off-the-record." After all is said and done, we can present a serious
strategic-plan for the evolution of the MR2 to Toyota. Deming (TQM) always
said to find out what the customer wants and give it to them!
Finally, IMHO!!!!!!!,
>Why doesn't Toyota pull up its boot straps and make a car
>that will compete with the American pony-cars in their price range?
Let's not play that game. Lowest common denominator design and
production does not improve the breed--only striving for excellence and
constant improvement can do that. The American pony cars handle like bricks
or are stiff as hell to compensate for a beastly curb weight. Hp/cu. inch
ratios are very low to keep things cheap, with weight and fuel economy
suffering. We don't need any more "American Mentality" pony-cars (Sorry to
all the Team-Netters in F-stock--I love Shelbys, too, but it's more of a
nostalgia thing).
> MARKET the thing!!! Make it something people will consider BUYING!
Damn skippy! Let people know up front that There is nothing out
there that will touch it, performance-wise. Yes, it will cost a good bit to
insure, but by raising the performance, more of the people who CAN afford
to buy the car WILL.
>The MR2 has been considered the only "affordable exotic" and has recently
>been ranked as the 2nd best "Bang-for-the-Buck" car in Morth America by
>Motor Trend magazine.
Remember, they also said that the MR2 would have probably won the
test, had not the bang stayed the same while the bucks increased. Face
it--the bucks ain't comin' down, so lets set about to get ourselves some
more bang!!!
Looking forward to more that I can handle,
Cal
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Date: 27 Jul 94 22:32:15 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
>> I agree with both of you, to some extent. However, the market for
>> all-out sports cars is dead. Only a handful of enthusiasts want one.
>> People are more likely to buy "sporty" cars like the Integra GS-R and
>> Probe GT that have almost the same performance as an MR-2 (objectively,
>> NOT subjectively) but also offer a back seat and some luggage room. Where
>> Toyota blundered was saddling its gorgeous new Celica with that lame
>> wheezer of an engine. This is the market that is still going strong, and
>> the Celica could have gained market share if it had more power (170 hbp
>> seems to be the magic number for this market).
>> The Corolla GT-S got shelved in favour of the Paseo. Poor move in my
>> opinion, but I still bemoan the switch from my RWD GT-S to the FWD model.
>> Of course all the "good" cars still exist in Japan (including, I think, a
>> five valve Corolla). However, Japan's fascination with techno whiz toys
>> borders on fanatacism, and their restrictive laws encourage frequent
>> turnover of cars. The only places in NA that approach that level of car
>> worship are California and Vancouver.
>> As for taking away Camaro and Mustang market share, forget it. People
>> buy these cars because of what they are - big RWD V-8 muscle cars.
>> I wouldn't worry about Toyota's market share. Isn't the Camry still
>> the best selling car in the US? Stephen
The market for all-out sports cars isn't dead, though it's a bit sleepy right
now. It'll wake up before too long. Nissan does well with the 300, Mazda's
not doing too badly with the RX-7, Corvette's still roll out the door, and
Diamond Star sells a lot of Stealth/3000's. The problem with the MR2 is that
it's a Toyota, and enthusiasts in this country don't readily equate Toyota with
world-class performance. It's got nothing to do with the car, which is
wonderful, but Toyota is still using 1970's marketing, which doesn't sell
sports cars to the right kind of person. If Honda/Acura (for example) had the
MR2, I think it would do much better. BTW, there's a rumor that they're
working on a mid-engine sports car of their own, for 96 or 97.
Yeah, I too "bemoan the switch" from RWD to FWD on the Corolla (and the
Celica). The writing was on the low-end performance wall when the FWD models
came out in 88 (and 86). BTW, doesn't the Paseo have a whiz-bang motor for
Europe and Japan? That's all it needs.
The Camry is one of the best selling cars, and so is the Corolla, but things
have a way of changing. The Neon, Contour/Mystique, and Cirrus/Stratus models
from Ford and Chrysler are going to eat their lunch. It's no coincidence that
all of them can be ordered in a version which outclasses the performance of the
Toyota's they were designed to compete with.
BTW, in case some of y'all are wondering what this has to do with toyota-mods,
the longer things stay on this course, the more demand for aftermarket funstuff
will decrease.
Kevin
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Date: 27 Jul 94 23:08:07 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Tires (forgive me... :) )
>> Give me some ideas of what can be had in the $100/tire (or less)
>> range.
Dunlop D40M2. Killer tire, currently being discontinued so's available cheap
from Tire Rack.
Get well soon!
Kevin
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Date: 27 Jul 94 23:08:10 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Second-Coming of the MR2
>> These ideas will create a lot of discussion--I say let's discuss.
Interesting ideas, but we're talking about a new model for a market they
obviously don't understand, or appreciate. They couldn't get the weight and
price down on the current MR2, how would they manage to do both for a whole new
design?
A more logical approach might be a Supra R, lightened up and lost the fluff.
Kevin
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Date: 27 Jul 94 23:08:13 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Camry Owners Questions...
I just drove a 92 that does the same things, FWIW. Nice to hear Toyota has a
fix, I'll forward the info to the owner.
Kevin
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From: k124476@ee.tut.fi (Kalalahti Matti)
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
To: 76334.3232@compuserve.com (Kevin W. Smith)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 14:38:04 EET DST
Cc: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
> >> Where
> >> Toyota blundered was saddling its gorgeous new Celica with that lame
> >> wheezer of an engine. This is the market that is still going strong, and
> >> the Celica could have gained market share if it had more power (170 hbp
> >> seems to be the magic number for this market).
But such a Celica does exist! We have three models available
here in Finland:
Celica ST, FWD, 1.8 (?), ~115hp
Celica GT, FWD, 2.0 (3S-GE), 175hp
Celica Alltrac, AWD, 2.0 turbo (3S-GTE), 241hp
Blame the idiots who decided not to import the more powerful
versions to the US, while EVERYBODY is moaning that Celica
is underpowered...
Apparently the Alltrac is not available in many European
countries either :(
> Yeah, I too "bemoan the switch" from RWD to FWD on the Corolla (and the
> Celica). The writing was on the low-end performance wall when the FWD models
> came out in 88 (and 86).
I think everybody on this list will agree on that.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 173+hp * 246Nm@4800
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 06:20:36 -0400
From: "ROGERS"
To: msink@gateway.bsis.com (Mark Sink - Gateway Production)
Cc: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re[4]: Atlantic spec 4AG
Greetings,
>Roger you sound like the 4AGE expert I was told was on the list, but that
>he was moving or something. Might that be you?
Who Me, and Expert Nah! Experts get paid. I just have a keen interest for
things Toyota... I did switch jobs earlier in the year, and "progress", saw me
go from a direct internet connection, to a UUCP mail link. Therefore mail
responses from me might seem a little sporadic as compared to my early days on
toyota-mods.....
>First off, what do you drive, if it has a 4AGE? What kind of mods if
>any have you seen on a 4AGE.
I own a Toyota Starlet with a 4AGE. However the Daily driver is a Nissan King
Cab, Starlet's at the Body shop, the fibreglass kit is now on, what's left is
to prime and paint it.
>I have an '87 MR2, in the shop right now,
>but if It ever gets fixed, my next move is a major HP increase. I've
>been in contact with PAECO about a supposedly EFI campatible engine close
>to 200 HP N/A. I've talked to Toysport about a turbo kit, and I could
>get intouch with Select Sales who supposedly might be able to do something.
>TRD had nothing to offer me after I sent them a letter. What can I expect
>to get out of this engine for $4000+? If my car doesn't start acting normal
>again, I may get an MR2 Turbo or RX-7 Twin Turbo.
With regards to the Stock Toyota EFI system on the 4AGE, I have seen several
magazine articles that stated that the max power attainable with Toyotas EFI is
150 BHP, anything over that requires either carbs or an after market injection
system. There are auxillary computers for the stock system, but these are more
expensive than a complete system from say haltech/electromotive.
>Do you have a copy of the Britsh mag Max Power with the 4AGE article? I'd like
>to see it!!
I still have the Mag at home, If Anyone else is interested in it, I may be able
to enclose it with some product literature from my company ;-)
>To the rest of you regarding the 5AGE which I got from a post here, and I
>brought it up again The engine cover on the HKS modified 4AGE said: HKS ENGINE
>5AGX I mentioned Friday that I thought it was a 2.0L 5AGX, and I was right,
>what ever it is...
regarding a 5AGE, 5A in toyota numbering nomenclature, represents the block (I
think), G is twin cams (not neccesarily 4 valves per cyclinder) and E is for
fuel injection. Check the engines chart to see if there are any 5 Series or A
series blocks
Roger Smith
rogers@golddisk.com
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 09:21:01 EDT
From: cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com (Chris Myer)
To: tm@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
Before you make any comparasons of Toyota to Mazda in hopes of providing
a basis for continued sales, keep in mind that Mazda is losing more
money than any car maker in history. Lost $3 _BILLION_ last year. Lots
of talk about Ford buying them. (Might have already happened if the
Japanese would allow it!)
Maybe this means we shouldn't compare the MR2 with the RX7. Or the
Miata, for that matter.
Chris
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From: Ted Osamu Koseki
To: toyota-mods@su102a.ess.harris.com
Subject: Bandwidth Waste...
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 06:43:42 -1000
This is WOB So..don't mind me...
Umm... Team BF has slashed their prices on their old Road Rally and Autocross
series R1's. For like $60 per tire..how can ya go wrong ?
Its like 1-800-go-bfg or something... i forget...
The 5AGE is like a different family series of motors. Its in no relation to
the 4AGE from what i understand, other then its a japan theory motor...which
is basically "stroke" the sukker..and get a new motor.
If you gonna put a roll cage in your car... excuse me.. if you are gonna put
a roll bar in your car, even your MR-2, the handling characteristics change
immensely due to the frame stiffness. I'm currently helping redoing my friends
alignment and such setting up his car for Solo I...
BTW... he has the Trust Exhaust for the MR-2... go figure...
BTW... A friend also has the Trust Exhaust on his All-Trac also... Go boggle...
I can't remeber all what went on here...
I got like 100 mail plus...
And Roger is back.... so...
Wob Wob Wob! =)
-Koji
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Date: 28 Jul 94 16:40:13 EDT
From: "Kevin W. Smith" <76334.3232@compuserve.com>
To:
Subject: Re[4]: Atlantic spec 4AG
>> With regards to the Stock Toyota EFI system on the 4AGE, I have seen
>> several magazine articles that stated that the max power attainable with
>> Toyotas EFI is 150 BHP, anything over that requires either carbs or an
>> after market injection system. There are auxillary computers for the
>> stock system, but these are more expensive than a complete system from say
>> haltech/electromotive.
150, that's all?? It wouldn't be enough to use the injectors, delivery pipe,
and fuel pump from the supercharged 4AGEZ? What about boring out the throttle
body? BTW, which ignition system works best with the 4AGEC/T-VIS?
Kevin
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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 18:06:10 PDT
To: Darin Ray Hamilton ,
From: todd@informix.com (Todd Katz)
Subject: Re: impending death of the beloved MR2
Cc: Toyota Mods Mailing List ,
Could you sort this out for your non-Turbo compatriots. Would adding
a HKS/K&N air filter alone improve performance noticeably? Thanks,
At 10:15 AM 7/27/94 -0600, Scott Stone wrote:
>You can get an extra 25bhp by simply installing an HKS exhaust and an
>HKS/K&N air filter (in a MkII Turbo). I've considered making a commercial
>for the MR2 myself - videotape it being autocrossed, driven on the
>freeway, fitting 10 bags of groceries into the trunk, driving uphill on a
>dirt/rock road with the CD player on and NOT skipping (I was impressed
>when I actually did this in Butterfield Canyon, near Tooele, Utah). I
>think that these clips put together (with some music, logos, disclaimers,
>etc) would make a good MR2 commercial. I wonder if I should call/Write
>Toyota and offer this suggestion?
>
>----------------
>* Scott Stone
>* 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo * B-Stock (soon to be A-stock in 1995)
>* Utah Region SCCA - Member #J223893
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