Toyota-Mods Postings Sep 1995

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ _______ ^^^ ^^^ ,' - _ ^^^ ^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^ ^^^ , ' | ^^^ ^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^ ^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^ ^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ P O S T I N G S Sep 1995 ^^^ ^^^ --------------------------- ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 23:21:40 PDT To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: Brett Fraser Subject: Ok, I give, whats ... Ok .. By no means am I mechanically imcompetent, I can change every user changable part on my Celica, I even did 90% of the work on changing my bloody diff when the thing grenaded on me (ick, had to pay 700$ from the Junkyard fer one.. was the only one i could find anywhere), but, when it comes to tires etc I am in need of some knowledge and now Im sick of not knowing. Haaalp. What is and what good does offset do? camber etc? Anyone have a primer on tires etc around :) ie: was reading the newest Sport Compact Car today and I saw someone mention (and i could be misquoting as its from memory) that they ended up with a 0.25 (something) offset and that was good. Why? :) Thanks for answering dumb questions. Brett Fraser 83 Celica GT Coupe, 128000 KM on a 22RE w/K+N and a shiny new paint job. (BTW, got the dreaded letter in the mail today .. I have to suckup to the superintendant of motor vehicles reeaaaaaalll well in a letter or they suspend my license for 2 months (10 tickets in 5 years ) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 02 Sep 1995 01:15:31 -0700 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: chan@internews.com (Jeff Chan) Subject: me/mine/mods Name : Jeff Chan Location : Mountain View, CA Model : 1989 MR2 Engine : 4A-GE Mods : ST springs, Tokico dampers, BBR wheels, Dunlop D40 M2 tires, HKS Powerflow, Thrust exhaust, Momo racing harness, possibly TRD clutch and brake rotors & some other things too. email : chan@shell.portal.com (preferred) Hi. I recently purchased this somewhat modified car. I'm generally happy with it, but of course it can be improved. :-) Obvious targets: 1. Better tires: currently has 195/50-15 and 205/50-15 Dunlop D40 M2s on 15 x 6? BBR wheels carried from Japan. I had Bridgestone RE-71 tires on my defunct Scirocco. RE-71s are significantly better, especially in feel. I'm currently thiking about Pirelli P-Zeros, which Tire Rack has for $101 in 195/50-15, and which may be better than RE-71s (if less "fun"). 2. Anti-roll bars. Car is stock, which looks like a < 20mm front bar only. I plan to contact Suspension Techniques (since it already has S-T progressive springs) and Eibach. 3. Chip/cams I'm new to the Toyota world, so any appropriate suggestions you may have would be appreciated. Does anyone have any favorite shops near Mountain View? For wheel and tire work, I plan to go to Custom Wheel and Alignment in Mountain View, which is one of the best in Northen California. Oh what a feeling. -- Jeff Chan chan@internews.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 02:59:05 -1000 From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Garage Sale This is some stuff I found in my garage... If anyones intrested, please let me know... Dual Mikuni 40's / Mikuni Manifold with cable type linkage Dual Solex Stock Carbs / 18RG manifold (not sure if ever worked or can work) TRD 6 way adjustable shocks (Green color) Low pressure Toystore street springs 3" lowered Turn 4 (or is it 6 -shrug- i forget) Anti-sway bars 1980 Corolla And last but not least... a $20 bill soaked in automatic transmission fluid for about 3 years -boggle- best off on all items... I have more, but no time to clean out my garage I put this ad up in a local autoparts store and here so things may go kind of fast =) -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Kalalahti Matti Subject: Re: Dohhh! To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 16:50:40 +0300 (EET DST) > I read Matti's post about the kind of HP gains he's seen after I wrote > my article about "some folks acting like they have a dyno in their fanny", > not before. Matti is one of the few folks whom I believe when he says > "I got a x% increase in HP from that." Soon those of you with Amigas can get the RevTest program (by my friend Tero) that we use to get the power curves, it will be available from his WWW page in a few days. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Kalalahti Matti Subject: Re: Intake Mods To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 16:58:09 +0300 (EET DST) > >This sounds very interesting, but I don't understand the mod you are > >trying to describe. Are you simply attaching a K&N filter to your air > >flow meter and removing the stock air box? Or are you moving the air flow > >meter colser to the throttle body? Can you clarify this for me. > > The first one. Do you think there is any benefit to be gained by > putting the air flow meter closer to the throttle body? I'd never > considered that. Quicker response resulting in less fuel lag, but it might make the metering flap vibrate more because of the intake pulses. I'd guess that might be more of a problem at idle (significant? probably not). -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Aaron Subject: In the hole again To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota Supra Mailing List), Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 17:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Well, guys, it looks like my fuel system upgrade is going to be put off for a while. Friday evening I put my new NGK plug wires on. I started the car up, then revved it and listened carefully to make sure everything sounded ok. Everything did NOT sound ok. I noticed a distinct knock/rattle at about 3000 rpm. I took the car for a short drive and could hear it from inside the car. It was fairly quiet but definitely there. So I put the old wires back on, just to see if the new wires were a factor. Nope, still knocked/rattled. At that point I began to get worried. I put the new wires back on again, drove out (carefully) and filled up the tank with some fresh 93 octane gas, hoping maybe I just had a bad tank of gas. No dice. So yesterday I took the car in to my mechanic and had him look at it. He confirmed my fears: he said that one of my connecting rods was warped and was knocking. He says I'm going to need a complete engine tear-down and rebuild to replace the bad rod and probably the crankshaft as well. It'll cost between $2000 and $3000 depending on what all needs to be replaced. As near as I can figure, the knock must have started in the last week or so. I usually have the radio cranked up and exhaust system blaring, so I'd guess it's been knocking for a little while and I just didn't notice it. When I purposefully checked the engine out after changing the plug wires, I first noticed what probably had been happening for several days. My best guess at this point about why the damage occurred is that it probably happened as a result of me continually hitting the fuel cut. I imagine that going from 350+ hp full acceleration, to full engine braking, to full acceleration again all in about 1 sec is pretty hard on connecting rods. That's the scenario that happens when the boost is piling up, then the fuel flow cuts off entirely, then a half-second later resumes full-on again. It happened to me on a fairly regular basis, since I could never get the system tuned so that I could make decent boost during normal acceleration while still having the ability to launch hard without overboosting. I could get one or the other, but not both, and during all the tweaking I did back and forth I did hit the fuel cut fairly frequently. I've decided that if I'm going to spend $2500 just to get things back to stock, I may as well spend $4500-$5000 and get fully upgraded internals. So I'm going to be investigating sources for upgraded pistons, piston rings, connecting rods, and possibly an upgraded crankshaft. Here's the prices my mechanic quoted me for stock parts, as well as my guesstimates for upgraded parts: Item Stock Upgraded (guess) ----------- ------------ ---------------- crankshaft $762.43 $1500 connecting rods (x6) $6.20 $200 pistons (x6) $54.54 $120 piston rings (set of 6) $147.04 $300 The crankshaft is real expensive. We'll have to see how much upgraded ones really cost. I may get a stock one and do some kind of stress-relief or other tuning job on it to increase durability. I don't know what the deal with the rods is, but as far as I can tell the stock ones are only $6 apiece, $37 for 6. Sounds weird, but that's what he said. I've seen ads for Crower rods that say "starting at $165", so there seems to be a huge difference there in price. But since that seems to be one of the real weak links, I expect to go aftermarket on those. Anyway, since I'm spending so much money on the car I've decided I'm going to take it all the way, make it a real project car. Also, since new Supra Turbos are becoming extinct that's more incentive for me to hold onto mine. But anyway I'm going to be shooting for 500+ hp by the time I'm done, with upgraded engine internals etc. I will be going for the fuel system upgrade, but that's down the road 6 to 9 months when I pay off rebuilding the engine. Also, I'm going to buy an external wastegate in the hopes of eliminating a lot of the boost spiking problem I'm having now. I think a larger, dual-port wastegate will give much more consistent behavior than I was getting with the stock wastegate, which should prevent the spiking from blowing the new engine. Anyway, with upgraded internals, upgraded injectors, upgraded computer, upgraded wastegate (probably $7500 all told) I expect to run about 18-20 psi and get 500+ hp. I'm going to call Lance at Toyomoto. Those of you that read Turbo magazine may remember the article on his rebuilt '89 Turbo, that he runs 22 psi of boost on. I'll probably follow in his footsteps. If any of you have any info on sources or suggestions for the engine rebuild, please let me know ASAP. I'm going to be limping the car around real easy for the next week and a half until my mechanic gets a chance to tear it down. I'd like to resolve this coming week what I'm going to do for replacement parts, where to get them etc, and get them on order if necessary. This is my only car so I want to minimize the downtime, though obviously there will probably be a week or two downtime I won't be able to avoid. BTW, the November Turbo magazine has a picture of the new HKS PFC F-CON, the F-CON V (5), so maybe the new F-CON is not all that far off. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 17:32:52 -0400 (EDT) From: alan auerbach F Subject: Re: In the hole again To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Cc: Toyota Supra Mailing List , Yikes! That's tough luck. I'd like to stay out of power-train holes, and would like advice on my driving habits with my 87 turbo automatic. I engine-brake by popping out the overdrive, then popping into 2nd gear (always blipping the rpms up first). And on long downhills I pop into neutral (again, revving up before re-engaging). Am I doing any harm to anything? Another thing: when the car shifts from 3rd to 4th by itself, it's as smooth as a kitten rubbing your leg. But when I lockout the overdrive and then engage it, the shift into 4th is jerky. Am I being a jerk? Al. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 15:30:59 -1000 From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: More Misc Stuff for Sale.. Also found a Cannon 2TC/3TC manifold with NOS plumbing -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 10:40:51 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: In the hole again >Item Stock Upgraded (guess) >----------- ------------ ---------------- >crankshaft $762.43 $1500 >connecting rods (x6) $6.20 $200 >pistons (x6) $54.54 $120 >piston rings (set of 6) $147.04 $300 If you're going to upgrade, just redo the stock ones! I have a guy down here that does a phenomenal job on extremely high-performance engine work. He does a lot of 600+ HP sprint car engines, as well as NOS-injected mud-bog engines. You can take all of the parts that aren't damaged plus throw in any additional stock replacements for those that are and have him bake, magnaflux, stress relieve, balance, and shot peen them for way less than what you are expecting, and they will last forever. This is especially true if you get him to side-grind the casting off of the connecting rods. This stuff will be as good as anything you can buy for any price, and it will be much less than you had guessed. For example, I think he charges about $30 to do the complete job on each connecting rod. Everything but the side grinding is only $20 per rod. I had him do my crank and the total was only $130 (for a 4 cylinder.) I'll just give you his name and number--it's Billy Gulley, (407)245-7145. He's no young upstart--he's been a top dog on the racing scene longer than I've been alive. Call him and mention me. Tell him you know me from the Internet, 'cause he's wanting to put a web page up and start selling to the 'net directly. BTW, he's redneck codger, either. He understands the physics involved with his trade. He has built his own crank balancer that turns the crank up to something like 4000 rpm. He does this to find the harmonics that can only be seen at this level. He has also built his own magnaflux machine that probably will give everyone in a 3 block radius leukemia. (It's really powerful. I refuse to be around when he operates it!) > I'm going to call Lance at Toyomoto. Those of you that read Turbo >magazine may remember the article on his rebuilt '89 Turbo, that he runs >22 psi of boost on. I'll probably follow in his footsteps. Lance is a good source of info, but they're kinda pricey. Be careful. > BTW, the November Turbo magazine has a picture of the new HKS PFC >F-CON, the F-CON V (5), so maybe the new F-CON is not all that far off. The new FCON is IN, the new FCON is IN! I can't believe it! I've had one of these on order since May, and it should be here at the office on Tuesday. I'll let everyone know... Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 04 Sep 1995 21:06:21 +0200 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: Kostas Chryssos Subject: me/mine/mods Name: Kostas D. Chryssos Ph.D. Location: Athens (Glyfada) Greece Model: 1991 MR2-T (Turbo US specs. Metal-Gray T-Tops, leather, power kit) Engine: 3s-gte turbo Mods: Changed-updated rear bridge to 1993 stock Changed-updated brakes +calipers to 1993 stock Added GAB Strut Tower Bars Changed to Suspension Techniques Sway Bars Changed to TOKICO 5way adj performance shocks Changed to Eibach springs Added HKS EVC, VPC, Turbo timer Changed to K&N conical air input filter Changed to HKS M3 Pt. Spark Plugs Added NoS 50 HP system Modified Fog light switch Modified Alarm sircuit Added Pioneer 2DIN radio Added HAM Radio system Modified Antenna switch Wheels: Front|: OZ 7.5 x 16 Tires: GY GDS+ 205/50/16ZR Rear: OZ 8.0 x 17 Tires: GY GDS+ 235/45/17ZR For more live see pictures: mr2sv1bt.jpg and hksinst.jpg at: ftp.softwords.bc.ca/pub/geof/mr2 e-mail: sv1bt@compulink.gr '73 de SV1BT (Kostas G. D. Chryssos Ph.D.) e-mail : sv1bt@compulink.gr 30,Ikarias str. Glyfada GR16675, Athens, Hellas Tel: xx-301 9628212, Fax: xx-301 9628539 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 15:21:58 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: me/mine/mods >Name: Kostas D. Chryssos Ph.D. >Location: Athens (Glyfada) Greece Number of firsts here, eh gang? First Grecian, and first Ph.D. Looks like we're going to have to raise the level of the conversation a bit. I think this is probably the first HAM radio installation, too! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods From: "Aric Shen/MIS/Kingston Technology Corp." Date: 5 Sep 95 15:41:28 PS Subject: me/mine/mods Name: Aric Shen Location: Irvine, CA. Model: 1986 MR2 Engine: 4AGE 1.6 liter Mods: TRD header, HKS Supercharged Exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-way shocks, TRD race springs, TRD sway bars, upper strut tower bar from 1988 MR2, HKS Power Flow E-Mail: shafted@primenet.com I have been looking for some input regarding the building of a 4AG motor. I've heard so many things its hard to distinguish what is fact and what is fiction. I currently have in my possesion an old (used) HKS 4AG turbo kit with everything required for Stage 3, including an HKS FCON fuel computer ,(9.5 psi I think) except for an intercooler. I also have a complete 1988 4AGZ motor with supercharger, intercooler, and air flow meter, but no computer or harness. I have been kicking around the idea of twin charging (turbo and super) a built 4AGZ block. Oh, I also have a complete bottom end from a 1987 MR2 in good condition (if anyone is interested, let me know). I have been told various things about boring the cylinder. I have heard I can go atleast 2-3mm o ver, but due to reliability considerations, I'm probably only going to go .5-1 mm over, what do you guys think ? Also, I had a cylinder head done by JG Engine Dynamics (a big Honda machinist) and he screwed it up big time. So I'm probably gonna pay the price with Dan Paramore. I heard he use to do the Toyota GTP cylinder heads, any suggestions ? I'm probably going to use stock supercharged rods, shot peened and polished with JE pistons at 8.8:1 compression. And to take care of the fuel injection, an Accel DFI or Emtech E6 stand-alone. Basically, I'm looking for fairly decent reliability, which is why I will probably keep over all boost below 20 psi, including the 10psi supercharger pully, on a small T25 or T3 turbo even. I have spoken to the owner of a twincharged setup out in here in California. He uses a large T4 turbo (basically the HKS twincharge kit, complete). He is using Weisco pistons (off the shelf) with stock rods on a supercharged motor. On street tires, 16 inch wheels (205/40 tires), he has run a 12.40 in the quarter mile. I'll be happy with low 13s. If anyone has any input, experiences, or tips on building a strong and fairly reliable motor, please let me know. Thanks in advance. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Vernon Natewa" Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 08:33:42 -0600 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: me/mine/mods Name : Vernon Natewa Location : Albuquerque, New Mexico Model : 1991 MR2 Turbo Engine : 3S-GTE Mods : HKS Fuel Cut Defenser, restrictor to increase boost, K&N filtercharger. Eibach progressive rate springs, Tokico 5-way adjustable struts, 16x7 & 16x8 ROH Reflex alloy wheels, 195/45-16 & 225/45-16 Dunlop SP 8000 tires. email : vernon@ceramics.mot.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:07:06 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Oops! Typing Dyslexia! Aaron pointed out to me that the phone number that I gave for Gulley's Automotive was wrong. It should be 407-254-7145 (in case anyone else saved that number for later reference.) Of course, if anyone needs a quote from Billy or anything, you can email me and I'd be happy to call him for you and email your answer back. Cheaper than a long distance phone call, anyhow. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Kalalahti Matti Subject: Revtest for Amiga now available (4-cyl only) To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list), Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 03:37:04 +0300 (EET DST) Revtest for Amiga is now available at: http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124775/prog.html This version works correctly for 4-cylinder engines only. Next update will work with any number of cylinders. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 08:16:24 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: RevTest for Amiga Ok, who wants to volunteer to port this to a computer that is still in production? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Kalalahti Matti Subject: Re: RevTest for Amiga To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 16:31:51 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) > Ok, who wants to volunteer to port this to a computer that is still > in production? Somebody is already trying to do just that. And Amigas are cheap ;) -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: cbaltzer@anjura.com (Craig Baltzer) To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer), Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 21:40:01 -0600 Subject: RE: RevTest for Amiga What's originally written in?? If its source is in something reasonable (and not Amiga assembler) then I'll have a go moving it to Windows (been looking for a VB 4 project to try)... Let me know... Craig ---------- From: Christopher Myer[SMTP:cmyer@CyberAuto.Com] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 1995 9:30 AM To: toyota-mods Subject: RevTest for Amiga Ok, who wants to volunteer to port this to a computer that is still in production? Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Re: RevTest for Amiga To: cbaltzer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Craig Baltzer) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:19:01 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) > What's originally written in?? If its source is in something reasonable > (and not Amiga assembler) then I'll have a go moving it to Windows (been > looking for a VB 4 project to try)... > > Let me know... > > Craig It *IS* written in Amiga assembler, and with zero comments and really unorthodox style ;) Unlimited cylinder number and maximum power/torque are adjustable in the next version, which should be available very soon (once the coding guru sleeps 9 hours and so on...), -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 21:01:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Model numbering Hi, I contacted Safety Devices in England about purchasing a multi-point roll cage for Starlet. The Starlets in the U.S. are designated (KP-61) but the cage manufactured by Safety Devices is for a (KP-60) they were unsure if this would be the same bodyshell as the U.S. version. Does anyone in this group know for sure if these two model designations are for cars with identical body shells? I know that the Brittish Starlet is a 1200 and the U.S. Starlet is a 1300. Of course the Brittish car has right hand drive, but that shouldn't make a difference in cage fitting. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, does anyone know another company that provides roll cages or kits for Starlet? ___ (o o) +-----ooO-(_)-Ooo-----+ | Craig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:35:46 -0700 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: dcole@cln.etc.bc.ca (Dave Cole) Subject: me/mine/mods Name : Davve Cole Location : Prince George B.C. Canada Model : 1992 Paseo Engine : (e.g. 3S-GE -- please be specific, several versions may exist) Mods : K & N air filter is on it's way 100 watt headlights ( helps to melt the snow in the winter) email :dcole@cln.etc.bc.ca Dave Cole S.D.57 Prince George B.C. Canada xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: bannerman@gencom.com (Dban) To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: 8 Sep 1995 00:39:10 PDT Subject: me/mine/mods Name : Dave Bannerman Location : Capistrano Beach, California Model : 85 Toyota 4x4 Xtra Cab Engine : 22RE Mods : Polyurethane Bushings, nothing else Email : Bannerman@Gencom.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:07:48 EST From: Monte Bedford Subject: Request suspension ideas--Starlet. Craig Terlau or others? To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com How do you like to set up the suspension in the Starlet. Springs, shocks, sway bars, etc., etc., etc.? Just would like to know since there's not a lot of "in-stock" modification stuff for Starlet. Btw, Craig, thanks for the great info. on tires for Starlet. Monte xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: RHeald@ccaf.au.af.mil Date: 08 Sep 95 11:17:00 CDT To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: me/mine/mods Name : Robert Heald Location : Prattville, AL Model : 85 4x4 SR5 Pickup Short bed, Standard Cab Engine : 22RE Mods : No major mods yet. The engine needs to be rebuilt in the next couple years, and I'd like to stay with the 22RE instead of swapping in a buick v-6 or something, but I want to increase the performance a bit and also waterproof it better (I recently had a run-in with a river). email : rheald@ccaf.au.af.mil xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: reyb@wildcat.sandiegoca.attgis.com Subject: me/mine/mods To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Name : Rey Berin Location : San Diego, California Model : 86 SR5 4Runner Engine : 22RE Mods : None email : Rey.Berin@SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM Anybody ever stroke a 22RE? I'm looking to increase HP *and* torque and I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) stroking is the way to go. The Downey and TRD catalog I have don't even offer a stroker kit. Is it not possible to stroke the 22RE? Rey xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Vodicka, Roger" To: "toyotamods.me" Subject: me/mine/mods Date: Fri, 08 Sep 95 17:03:00 PDT Name: Roger Vodicka Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Model: 1986 Toyota Celica SX Mileage: 120,000 kms (owned since 80kkms) Engine: 3S-GELC (no mods) Mods: New headers/extractors (custom built) Wheels: 14" with 195/60 Goodyear Eagle GT+4 (38psi) Oil/Filters: Castrol GTX-3 15W-40 , RYCO filters =================================================== Roger Vodicka [roger.vodicka@dsto.defence.gov.au] Airframes and Engines Division Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory Defence Science & Technology Organisation Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Fax : 61-3-9626-7087 Voice: 61-3-9626-7862 =================================================== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 22:47:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: Monte Bedford Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Request suspension ideas--Starlet. Craig Terlau or others? Monte, there are several ways to set up the suspension on the Starlet, it depends what you want to use the car for, for example, road race, rally, street performance, snow and ice. All are different, let me know which you would like my humble opinion on ... ___ (o o) +-----ooO-(_)-Ooo-----+ | Craig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: reyb@wildcat.sandiegoca.attgis.com Subject: Re: RE>me/mine/mods To: Toyota Mods Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 21:47:34 -0700 (PDT) > > Reply to: RE>me/mine/mods > There used to be a company called Karmin's Micro Grinding in Kansas that had > a 2.4l to 2.8l stroker conversion for the 22R engine. They no longer seem to > be in business though. > > Jay > Ahh, but you forgot the 'E' in 22R(E). :) I thought I read somewhere that the fuel injection on the 22RE can't be adjusted so that any mods will probably result in an inefficient running engine due to the fuel injection not being calibrated correctly. I was hoping someone could prove me wrong. Oh well, your setup of the Chevy 4.3l and 700R auto is looking more and more attractive. Rey > > Name : Rey Berin > Location : San Diego, California > Model : 86 SR5 4Runner > Engine : 22RE > Mods : None > email : Rey.Berin@SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM > > Anybody ever stroke a 22RE? I'm looking to increase HP *and* > torque and I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) stroking is the > way to go. The Downey and TRD catalog I have don't even offer > a stroker kit. Is it not possible to stroke the 22RE? > > Rey > -- ============================================================ Rey Berin Phone: (619) 485-3285 AT&T Global Information Solutions Fax: (619) 485-3010 17095 Via Del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 Rey.Berin@SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM ============================================================ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Subject: Update To: Toyota Supras Mailing List , Well, folks, I'm still waiting for my mechanic to tear my engine apart. He's trying to finish up that project car he's been working on before he starts mine. BTW, someone was asking about putting a Chevy V-8 in an '85 Supra, right? That's what my mechanic is doing (not for me, for some other guy), putting a Chevy LT1 engine in a Mark II Supra (I forget what exact year, but '82-'85). The mechanic's name is John Wagner, and his phone number is 904-373-6963. But be warned that the project has taken far more time and effort than he thought, and he may be reluctant to go into detail on it without some compensation. Anyway, I want to have the mechanic pull everything apart and first of all figure out which parts actually are broken and have to be replaced, second see how much wear the non-broken parts seem to have taken. Right now I am planning on following Chris's suggestion and have Billy Gulley prep the whole darn engine. But that is contingent on having most of the engine parts in good condition. If it turns out the pistons and rods are all in middling to poor shape I'll probably just replace them all with higher performance aftermarket parts. If most of the stock components seem to be ok, I'll buy stock replacements for the broken ones then send all the parts to him to have them strengthened, balanced, etc. I would prefer to have Billy work the engine over than just buy high-performance replacements, because from what he has told me he can not only strengthen stock parts (through various processes) he can make them perform better by shaving, balancing, porting, etc. He is quoting me for a whole engine job, including rods, pistons, head, valves, crankshaft etc. I expect his labor all told to come to something like $1000. I'm expecting an itemized quote tomorrow and I'll reproduce it here. BTW, he doesn't do any assembly/disassembly work. You have to send your engine to him in pieces. However, on the flip side, if most of the components seem pretty worn and out-of-spec, and I have to buy a bunch of replacements parts anyway, a) I won't be confident that even with a bunch of prepping the stock parts will hold up to high hp applications, and b) if I'm spending $500 on stock parts I'd rather spend twice as much and get parts that are designed from the outset for high hp. That reminds me: Sevan, how long will it take you from the time I place an order for pistons and rods for me to have them in my hands? Anyway, thanks for the advice and support from everybody. At Reg's suggestion, I did take all the intake stuff and plug wires off to verify that the knocking was not a loose spark plug. Needless to say at this point, it was not. :( All the spark plugs were snug, though not as tight (maybe a 1/6 turn difference) as I usually screwed them (my mechanic did them last time). I'll keep everyone updated. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:39:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Subject: Re: Question on some simple mods from the Toyota Performance To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Sevan Davitian wrote: > >Are you saying that disconnecting the EGR even on series III Supras > >has an effect on the ECU? I have had mine disconnected a while, I haven't > >noticed anything. I jst took the whole contraption off the intake manifold > >and blocked the whole with a metal plate and gasket. Am I adversely affecting > >the ECU? > > > >Dave T > > > Dave I do not believe that it has any affect on the 87-92 Supras, but then > again I wouldn't know from experience since I never ran the factory > computer, but by what is connected to it its practically impossible for the > ecu to know.! Yeah, I can confirm. I've had EGR disabled on my Supra for 1.5 years now and never noticed any check engine lights come for it. I have noticed check engine lights come on when I hit the fuel cut, but that's another story... BTW, I was reading the archives of the RX7 mailing list, and they were talking about how removing cats can cause combustion conditions (cool onomotopaiea!) to become lean. I don't understand that, can anyone explain? I wonder if disabling EGR can cause a similar effect. If anything, I'd figure disabling EGR would cause the mixture to be overly rich, since the ECU may be throwing fuel in to burn up the EGR gas, of which there is none when the EGR is disabled. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:54:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Subject: Replacement head bolts for 7M-GTE? To: Toyota Modifications Mailing List Also, I intend to put better head bolts on when the engine goes back together. Reg, I forget, did you come up with stronger head bolts, or what was the result of your tests? I know Lance at Toyomoto urges folks to go with stronger head bolts, and he sells some for like $120 I believe. Thanks! Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:59:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Subject: New HKS PFC F-CON To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, Hi Chris. Did you get my email asking about the new PFC F-CON? What's the scoop? Did you get it in? Don't leave us hanging like that! BTW, what all does PFC F-CON stand for? I think it's Programmed Fuel Computer something or other, but I have no idea what F-CON would be without being redundant. Aaron B. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Vodicka, Roger" To: "'toyota-mods'" Subject: Re: Question on some simple mods from the Toyota Performance Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 14:30:00 PDT A few thoughts below on Aarons comments... > BTW, I was reading the archives of the RX7 mailing list, and they >were talking about how removing cats can cause combustion conditions >(cool onomotopaiea!) to become lean. I don't understand that, can anyone >explain? I wonder if disabling EGR can cause a similar effect. If >anything, I'd figure disabling EGR would cause the mixture to be overly >rich, since the ECU may be throwing fuel in to burn up the EGR gas, of >which there is none when the EGR is disabled. > >Aaron B. I would expect the mixture to become too lean since the ECU is assuming that some unburnt fuel is being re-directed to the intake via the EGR. If you block off this supply you will probably run lean. The EGR on my '86 celica (3SGELC) became blocked and the ECU would trigger a fault in the oxygen sensor circuit - I am assuming it is complaining that the mixture is too lean. In this car the driveability is seriously affected by blocking the EGR. Why the cat should affect anything is anyones guess - maybe if the gas is re-circulated after it passes through the cat.....??? Roger. V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 20:39:41 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: New HKS PFC F-CON Well, the HKS PFC-FCON was ordered for one of our esteemed Supra-modders. I've been hesitant to discuss it because I didn't want to steal his thunder, and wanted to let him tell everyone about it. He should receive it by Friday, and I'm sure will post us a wonderful discussion! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 20:44:44 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: New HKS PFC F-CON > BTW, what all does PFC F-CON stand for? I think it's Programmed Fuel >Computer something or other, but I have no idea what F-CON would be >without being redundant. Um, nearest I can tell it is just that--redundant. The HKS catalog calls it the "PFC F-CON: Programmed Fuel Computer System". Go figure! Chris -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:07:24 -0700 From: Tony Lanterman To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, vodickar@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Question on some simple mods from the Toyota Performance My guess would be that it would be due to a lack of backpressure so there is a bit too much scavaging effect. A Rotary has no valves and uses an odd exhaust set up to keep it from backfiring. The exhaust gasses go into this thing called a thermal reactor (imagine a 4 inch diameter pipe with one end capped and a 2 inch hole in the other end for the exhaust to get out. The gasses get in there through two ports in the side and are directed twards the capped end.). They then pass into an exhaust manifold to the cat. This setup is designed to create backpressure. If you direct the exhaust twards the outlet rather than the capped end of the thermal reactor power drops drasticly. Plugging the EGR valve might cause the same effect, but I doubt it would be for the same reasons. Woodsprite Former owner of a 1975 Rotary Pickup, the only mini truck I've heard of that comes with a stock 4bl carb. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 01:08:40 -0700 To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer), From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: New HKS PFC F-CON At 08:39 PM 9/12/95 -0400, Christopher Myer wrote: >Well, the HKS PFC-FCON was ordered for one of our esteemed Supra-modders. >I've been hesitant to discuss it because I didn't want to steal his >thunder, and wanted to let him tell everyone about it. He should receive >it by Friday, and I'm sure will post us a wonderful discussion! > >Chris > I noticed that you had talked to Lance from Toyomoto before.. my friend has a 1991 Supra Turbo and Lance told him that the hot ticket was to use the HKS (actually RX-7 Turbo II stock injectors) 550cc injectors and a Lexus airflow meter.. and that is all the fuel you need for a big ass turbo.. my friend is running a full size T04 60-1 with a P-trim .58 exhaust wheel.. he use to have a 60-1 Hi-Fi which he though had better response.. oh well xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 10:18:12 GMT From: "Jamie Moles" To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Me and Mine Hello All, I'm new to this mailing list so please bear with me. I've just recently (Feb this year) bought my first MR2 and have now got so used to it I want to improve on its performance some. Here is my details: Name: Jamie Moles Location: Slough, England Model: MR2 1991 Engine: Standard no mods email: jmoles@dsgroup.co.uk In the UK there appears to be very little knowledge regarding upgrading Japanese motors (Fords and Vauxhalls are the main cars overhere) and about all I've managed to find is a "Superchip" upgrade for the car. My question is, do any of you guys know if it is (relatively) easy to fit a Turbo (maybe a Garrett?) to my little baby? Incidently have any of you tried changing the tape deck to a non-toyota (Fujitsu 10) system? I'm trying to put an Alpine 3-cd multichanger head unit in and its not as easy as I was expecting! If ever any of you try this, look in the rear panel for your inbuilt amplifier! Ta Muchly ___ ] _] a m i e. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 17:03:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeffrey T Paugh To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: me/mine/mods Name: Jeffrey T. Paugh Location: Green, OH USA Model: 1985 MR2 (Mint, RED) Engine: (As i write this, it's at the dealer getting some coolant lines replaced, can't obtain the exact model number right now) Mods: The Car is in nearly perfect condition (VERY, VERY, VERY Well Maint.) But right now I have no mods done but have a detailed list of what I want to do! Email: r3jtp@dax.cc.uakron.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:59:18 -0500 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: Fred_Oberbuchner@mbnet.mb.ca (Fred Oberbuchner) Subject: my ride... update Well, as some may know, I have been waiting long for my car (88 Corolla GTS) and now the climax is drawing near.... the Tech II system is installed (works great) and they are going to be custom building the stainless headers next week. Hopefully I will have a full report a week or two thereafter. For those who don't know what I'm typing about.... please have patience... everything will be clear when the final report comes! Regards, Fredo p.s. anyone interested in a custom header for an 88 Corolla GTS (4AGE, AE92)? I could probably get him to make 2 or more sets at once. They are custom fitted. I can get more details if anyone is interested. He might do systems for other vehicles also if he can get his hands on a car to use as a template. (just a thought!) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 06:58:07 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: Me and Mine >Jamie writes: > In the UK there appears to be very little knowledge regarding > upgrading Japanese motors (Fords and Vauxhalls are the main cars > overhere) and about all I've managed to find is a "Superchip" > upgrade for the car. Can you give us a writeup about what you gained with the Superchip? I don't suppose you did any before/after testing, did you? I am very interested in finding out what the performance gains are from these, and I know that a lot of others are as well. Also, if you don't mind, could you tell us what these cost? Chris -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:40:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Starlet with 4A-GE I am interested in using a 4A-GE engine in a Starlet, it appears as though several members of this group have experience with this. Can someone give information on what this modification entails? What problems are encountered with this? What is the prefered transmission and drive shaft? Does the Starlet rear axle handle the power or do you upgrade that too? How well does the engine and trand fit in the body-shell and what mounts do you use? Thank You! Craig. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 12:24:09 EST From: Monte Bedford Subject: Starlet with 4A-GE To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Craig, I wish I could say that I have put a 4A-GE into a Starlet. But, right now I am only desiring and looking for one--and it would be a 3T-C that would go into it. However, I'd be happy to suggest what might be good leads. 1) Select Sales sells a stock 4A-GE and tranny (and shaft??) that is ready to drop into a Starlet, or so I was told by someone who didn't know any details. He said, "speak to Ian McKenzie"--who gets there at 4 p.m. EDT. 2) Roger Smith has (had?) a '93 Starlet with a 4A-GE (C). He has been a TM subscriber (and now?) but doesn't appear to be active. I know about the car through the old posts (contact Majordomo) in which he talked about the car frequently. I cannot guarantee that any of your questions would be answered there, but you might want to read them for whatever you can pick up. 3) When the old posts left off, Roger Smith had been talking enough about his Starlet that I might expect more of the same in the discontinued posts (starting with 9402, etc.). I have been working with Chris Myer to make ALL of the TM posts (9402 to present and ongoing) available on Majordomo. Chris, of course, has been very cooperative. This process may be completed in a couple of weeks (??--hope). But then I haven't actually gotten my hands (or MEGS) on the backposts files. This too has been slow, but it may (should) happen, I guess. 4) I had tried contacting Roger a month ago at the e-mail address as listed, but got a wrong address-type reply. Chris Myer may know more (??) Craig, whatever you find out, I would be happy to see it posted. Monte xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: LC Engineering Cc: toyota-l@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 10:24:10 PDT Just an FYI: LC Engineering in La Verne, CA has moved to Arizona. Their new # is: 520-505-2501 They have a 200HP 2.5l 22R emissions legal engine! Full color catalog is $7.00. Does anyone know how to get the top bolt of the starter on an 82 Celica? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: RE: LC Engineering Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 10:25:18 PDT >Just an FYI: LC Engineering in La Verne, CA has moved to Arizona. >Their new # is: 520-505-2501 > >They have a 200HP 2.5l 22R emissions legal engine! Full color catalog is $7.00. > >Does anyone know how to get the top bolt of the starter on an 82 Celica? ^^ Should be "off". Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: LC Engineering To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Cc: toyota-l Sorry, but this engine is not even close to being emissions legal. It has dual sidedraft carbs, high lift cam, etc. All smog equipment is non-existent (EGR, air pump, etc). Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: toyota-mods-owner To: toyota-mods Cc: toyota-l Subject: LC Engineering Date: Friday, September 15, 1995 10:24AM Just an FYI: LC Engineering in La Verne, CA has moved to Arizona. Their new # is: 520-505-2501 They have a 200HP 2.5l 22R emissions legal engine! Full color catalog is $7.00. Does anyone know how to get the top bolt of the starter on an 82 Celica? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:56:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: Monte Bedford Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Starlet with 4A-GE On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Monte Bedford wrote: > I wish I could say that I have put a 4A-GE into a Starlet. But, right > now I am only desiring and looking for one--and it would be a 3T-C that would > go into it. Why would you prefer to use the 3T-C and not the 4A-GE? What is the 3T-C like? What Toyotas was it used in? Craig xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:25:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: LC Engineering To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" LC Engineering's new address is: LC Engineering 1880-B Commander Drive Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403 They have been under new ownership since May 1, 1995. The existing catalog is still valid until they issue a new one in 1996. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: toyota-mods-owner To: toyota-mods Cc: toyota-l Subject: LC Engineering Date: Friday, September 15, 1995 10:24AM Just an FYI: LC Engineering in La Verne, CA has moved to Arizona. Their new # is: 520-505-2501 They have a 200HP 2.5l 22R emissions legal engine! Full color catalog is $7.00. Does anyone know how to get the top bolt of the starter on an 82 Celica? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: RE: LC Engineering Cc: toyota-l@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 13:51:12 PDT > >Sorry, but this engine is not even close to being emissions legal. It has >dual sidedraft carbs, high lift cam, etc. All smog equipment is >non-existent (EGR, air pump, etc). >Bryan Zublin >bzublin@gi.com Doh! The lady there must not know what she's talking about. She sounds like a secretary anyways. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Re: Starlet with 4A-GE To: terlau@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Craig A Terlau) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 02:07:52 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) > Why would you prefer to use the 3T-C and not the 4A-GE? What is the 3T-C > like? What Toyotas was it used in? Cheaper? T-series inline 4, 1770cc, 85mm bore (can be overbored up to 91mm), 78mm stroke, pushrods, crossflow head, 2 valves per cylinder. 70-105hp depending on the version (the 70hp one must be heavily restricted by emissions stuff... most versions should put out around 90hp). Some of the modified ones are claimed to put out 150-170hp... Early 80's Carina, Celica, Corona, Corolla. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 18:28:54 EST From: Monte Bedford Subject: 4A-GE vs. 3T-C in Starlet To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Craig Terlau has asked me: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >Welps...my car is a 1980 Sports Coupe comes with two motors. The one i run for SCCA is a basically "stock" 3TC with a 2tc high comp head and various other "stock parts" so i run about a low 17's HIGH 16's with it on a 32/36 Weber. that jus has jets the size of drill bits =) My other motor is a 2TG with cams, dual 44's or 48's gear drive such and such. I think thats all ya need to put in ya list ha ha i hope. I have TRD headers, TRD Adjustable rear shocks and high pressure front struts. A TRD strut Tower bar, 10 bolt rear end running a TRD LSD with either 5:13 or 4:55 final drive gears, a TRD quick shift kit (bent by hand to allow for left hand driving) on a T-50 trans from a 1985 Corolla GTS. I have a one piece drive shaft and Celica close ratio steering box (2.5 turns wheel to wheel) with a Celica Rear end. Mods: 1981 3-TC Engine 1.8 Liter 3-TC Block Slightly Enlarged 1972 2-TC Corolla High Compression Head Port and Polished Head 32/36 Weber "Progressive" Carb (with BIG Jets) Modified for Top end performance and Jet sizing With K&N Filter 8 Valve Old Technology with Dual Springs for use with "over sized" valves from "Iskenderian High Volume Oil Pump MSD 7-AL (why -shrug- got it used and its "hidden") 5 Speed T-50 Transmission from a 1985 Corolla GTS 10 "Bolt" Rear End from a 1974 Celica using a 5:13 Final Gear On a TRD locker Unit LSD One Piece Drive shaft "for better torque" 1974 Celica Steering Box for a better turning Radius 2 1/4 Wheel to Wheel Radius Accell SuperCoil TRD Racing Headers (You weld your self) From Japan keeping stock "Tri-Y" Flange going into a 2" Stainless Steel pipe with a "glasspack" muffler for backcompression The one BIG drawback is that parts really are getting hard to get. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ___________________________________________ 2) The other way to go: 2TG Last I heard, Beth Copley had mentioned a low-mileage (guaranteed 30k or less) engine for sale for $700 plus shipping (from NC). (Ask me for details) That should be 125 hp, stock! The one BIG drawback is that some parts really are hard to find. You might have to order from Japan, anything that's not shared with the 2T-C/3T-C, although a number of parts are shared. Toyota Performance Handbook, pp. 48-49, lists 19 rebuild parts and 13 crankshaft parts that are unique to the 2T-G. If that drawback doesn't bother you too much and this is the bhp range you want OR if you want to take the 2T engine to it's ultimate horsepower--you could break the 200 bhp barrier if you went with the ALL OUT normally-aspirated engine. It wouldn't be cheap but not as expensive as the 4A-GE with similar bhp. ____________________________________________ Info about years: 2T-C, 1588 cc, push-rod, from Corollas (that aren't 3K) '72-'76 102 bhp (Toyota Performance Handbook)* '77-'79 75 bhp [pre '75 are a different body style] 3T-C, 1770 cc, push rod, many parts shared with 2T-C, 83 bhp, from '80-82 Corollas and, Koji says, >The Corolla 3TC motor 1.8 came out in 1976 in the Corolla SR-5 till 1983 (post 9401)--but I didn't know this myself 2T-G, 1588 cc, DOHC, 8 LARGE valves,125 bhp, never officially imported Note: With 3T-C and side draft carbs, must use the 2T-C distributor. 3T dist. doesn't clear *Note: Early heads were high compression. Ask if you want identifying features. ________________________________________________ Back to the 4A-GE. Another idea, and it's just an idea. If you are wanting to keep things pretty low budget modified, you might want to compare the 4A-G (1983, DOHC, 16 valves, stock 114 bhp), otherwise stock but with side-draft carbs and headers (maybe a cam) vs. the 3T-C with similar. After '83, with the 4A-GE, you could easily switch to carbs. It's the carbureted conversion of the 4A-GE, which, at this modification level, Select Sales recommended to me as more cost-effective. In this case, you might have a bhp/$ invested advantage with the 4AG over the 3TC (???). You would have to check, but maybe it would be the ideal 4AG balance of horses and dollars. It's just a thought. Of course, it's not the 4A-GE, but if you'regoing to go EFI with significant modifications, that gets into the $$. Oh, why am *I* going with a 3T-C? Because I already have one that is built--really needs a ring job. But the investment's basically there and, with the engine put really right again and a change to the high hp street cam, it is *supposed* to put out 175 bhp. This is the engine that I'm desiring to put into a Starlet (will I ever find a nice clean one--non trashed, non-rusted?). The same bhp in a 4A-GE would cost BIGGER $'s, even starting from scratch. Also at certain power levels (near 200 bhp, certainly at or above), it becomes recommended to go with a 4A-GZ block, which is "beefier." The plot thickens. Did this help? I have always appreciated your great info. on Starlets. Monte xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Koji's steering box To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" >From a message discussing Koji's 1980 (Corolla) Truena (quoting from post 9309): > I have a one piece drive shaft and Celica close >ratio steering box (2.5 turns wheel to wheel) with a Celica Rear end. And: >1974 Celica Steering Box for a better turning Radius 2 1/4 Wheel to Wheel >Radius Koji, Please tell me more about this steering box. I would very much like to get a closer ratio steering box for my 1980 Celica. At one time TRD offered such an item, but it has long been discontinued. Is your steering box simply taken from a 1974 Celica? Has it been modified? Do you know if it would work (without major mods) on a 1980 Celica? Also, I assume that all 1974 Celicas came without power steering (same as my Celica). Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:55:03 -1000 From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: RE: Koji's Steering Box >From toyota-mods-owner@CyberAuto.Com Fri Sep 15 15:36:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Koji's steering box Ya...this is a babble from me -grim- I'm waiting for Chris to email me back since I think he's backed up >=) Hurry up Chris... In the mean time... >>From a message discussing Koji's 1980 (Corolla) Truena (quoting from post 9309): >> I have a one piece drive shaft and Celica close >>ratio steering box (2.5 turns wheel to wheel) with a Celica Rear end. >And: >>1974 Celica Steering Box for a better turning Radius 2 1/4 Wheel to Wheel >>Radius God...reading all my back posts -sigh- Damm... I wished I remebered all I babbled back then >=) I miss my car...I think i'll go outside and sit in it and listen to the radio now... (*sigh*) >Koji, >Please tell me more about this steering box. I would very much like to get >a closer ratio steering box for my 1980 Celica. At one time TRD offered >such an item, but it has long been discontinued. Is your steering box >simply taken from a 1974 Celica? Has it been modified? Do you know if it >would work (without major mods) on a 1980 Celica? Also, I assume that all >1974 Celicas came without power steering (same as my Celica). Basically all early year Toyota models (pre 1980) have the same front end so you can swap springs etc etc... I actually have the whole front end of a 1974 Celica, frankly because it has larger disc brakes then the 1980 Corolla did. I'm told, the steering box is a direct drop in, and the replacement parts number as far as I could tell in research through the microfiche is the same. Yes, I have no power steering, but I don't really like power steering all together, in a racing condition. Um, power assist steering is good. Errrr, but to answer your question...I belive yes..it is a direct drop in. Double check with your local parts shop for a steering box, for a 1974 Celica and a 1980 Celica. There was some reason why I chose the 1974 Celica for steering and rear end...I can't remeber it right now...I belive it had something to do with larger disc brake size, a longer wheel base, and something else... Please notate that in 1980 the Corolla SR-5 bear the Corvette in the slalom in stock trim. Sorry, I'll think about this more, but heck..i've forgotten a lot of this stuff... Check the back posts =) >Bryan Zublin >bzublin@gi.com -Allen T "Koji" Kam 1994 Rollerblade Tarmac CE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 19:42:51 +0800 To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer), From: adrian01@singnet.com.sg (Adrian Heng) Subject: Re: Me and Mine >Can you give us a writeup about what you gained with the Superchip? >I don't suppose you did any before/after testing, did you? I am >very interested in finding out what the performance gains are from >these, and I know that a lot of others are as well. Also, if you >don't mind, could you tell us what these cost? > I seem to recall seeing a before/after test on the new Superchip in a recent copy of Max Power magazine. I think there was a similar test in Fast Car. Both mags are UK publications. In Max Power, they tested the Superchip in a Corolla GT. Being 4A-GE, the results ought to be quite similar. I recall seeing a dyno graph. It showed a general power increase with max increase about 6 bhp. Not much but it may improve driveability. If anyone has read the articles in detail could you let us know what it was like? Adrian Mk I Lotus Silver Frost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 20:47:17 +0800 (WST) From: Travis Morien To: Adrian Heng Cc: Christopher Myer , Subject: Re: Me and Mine On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Adrian Heng wrote: > >Can you give us a writeup about what you gained with the Superchip? > >I don't suppose you did any before/after testing, did you? I am > >very interested in finding out what the performance gains are from > >these, and I know that a lot of others are as well. Also, if you > >don't mind, could you tell us what these cost? > > > I seem to recall seeing a before/after test on the new Superchip in a recent > copy of Max Power magazine. I think there was a similar test in Fast Car. > Both mags are UK publications. In Max Power, they tested the Superchip in a > Corolla GT. Being 4A-GE, the results ought to be quite similar. I recall > seeing a dyno graph. It showed a general power increase with max increase > about 6 bhp. Not much but it may improve driveability. If anyone has read > the articles in detail could you let us know what it was like? > > Adrian > Mk I > Lotus Silver Frost > Yeah, but how much do they cost, and are they available in Australia? Travis Morien MK I MR2 -1988 stock...(seeking info on rectifying this!) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 11:46:03 -0700 To: "Jamie Moles" , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: Me and Mine > Name: Jamie Moles > Location: Slough, England > Model: MR2 1991 > Engine: Standard no mods > email: jmoles@dsgroup.co.uk > > In the UK there appears to be very little knowledge regarding > upgrading Japanese motors (Fords and Vauxhalls are the main cars > overhere) and about all I've managed to find is a "Superchip" > upgrade for the car. > > My question is, do any of you guys know if it is (relatively) easy > to fit a Turbo (maybe a Garrett?) to my little baby? If you want to do if fairly inexpensively, then the easiest way is to get your stock turbo modified to fit a larger compressor wheel. I think you can fit a 60-1 (same as HKS's TO4S) compressor wheel in the CT-26 housing if you machine it a little bit. The other way would be to make an adapter plate/pipe. I've seen a few MR2s run them that way. The fastest MR2 Turbo I've personally seen has run a 12.20 with that type of set up. About the Superchip, I knew a guy that bought one. His first mistake was buying it from a Mustang shop. First of all, Superchips claimed an enormous increase in horsepower at a given boost level (like 15 psi, or 1 bar). But the MR2's factory injection is aggressive enough to run 15psi with out an modification to fuel delivery other than a fuel cut defencer (HKS's name). So basically, we concluded that Superchips was a modified stock computer, which eliminated the fuel cut at 15 psi, and it included a little restrictor orafice (sp?) that you stick into the vacuum line to the wastegate actuator (to raise the boost).. For a normally asiprated application, my friend was at Mechtech in San Diego CA. with an editor from Turbo Magazine where they have a Dynojet dynomometer. The Superchip for the Acura Integra picked up like 2-3 horsepower in the midrange, but lost 3-4 horsepower on the top end. When they called Superchips about their horsepower claims, they said that the chip would improve overall drivability. If you read their ad, there is a disclaimer in it anyways. There is a good write up about "chips" on the Integra Home Page (I don't have the address right now).. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:43:57 +0800 (WST) From: Travis Morien To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: me/mine/mods Name: Travis Morien Location: Perth, Western Australia Model: MK I 1988 toyota MR2, normally aspirated. Engine: stock 1.6lt Mods: none, seeking advice/ideas before proceeding email: phantom@tartarus.uwa.edu.au I don't know a hell of a lot about cars, but I am VERY eager to learn about how so safely and legally best upgrade my cars performance. I just want the details like how/what/where/how much, for getting it done where I come from. (ie, should I get this bit from Trust, or HKS.) just for reviews and impressions... I won't get in the way of anyone, or flame them. I just want a few knowledgeable people to bounce ideas off, so I won't make the same costly mistakes they have.. 8) ok? I am already on your list I think, subscribed yesterday. I just got a mail requesting this data... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:47:37 +0800 To: Travis Morien , From: adrian01@singnet.com.sg (Adrian Heng) Subject: Re: Me and Mine Cc: Christopher Myer , Travis wrote: >Yeah, but how much do they cost, and are they available in Australia? > Travis, I don't remember if you're the one I talked to before. Anyway, you could try this address: POWERCHIP PTY LTD P.O. BOX 7591 ST KILDA RD MELBOURNE 3004 TEL: (03) 331 6124 FAX: (03) 399 1801 I was in that part of the woods sometime in April and called Powerchip. They were the ones who told me about the forthcoming Superchip for 4A-GEs. Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:05:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Hilliard To: Toyota Mods Subject: Liftback parts needed Hey folks! I need a few parts for my '77 liftback so I figured I would bounce it off of you folks first. Numero uno: I need a dash pad (brown). From what I understand Corollas are bad about cracking dash pads unless special attention is administered to them. I have located a couple cars in my local junkyard but they have the same affliction. Anyone got one (I can dye it) or know of a source (aftermarket) where I could purchase a new one? Second: I need a carb for my 2T-C. I want a progressive of some sort right now until I can spring for dual sidedrafts. If anyone has got one (or any other excellent condition used/carb(s) ) E-mail me. The donor cars at the wrecking yard have already been robbed of their engines and trannys so there was no luck there. Thanks! Chris Hilliard **************************************************************** * |\/\/\/| ___________________ * | | / \ * | | ____________ / Catch this airhead \____ * | (0)(0) / \ / at \ * C _) / \/ cxh6989@jackson.freenet.org | * | ,___| < AYE CARUMBA!!! \ / * | / \ / \ "I didn't do it, / * /====\ \____________/ \ Nobody saw me, ------------ */ \ \ You can't prove a thing!!! / ***************************************\____________________________/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: fuel going, going, gone... To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 01:45:57 +0300 (EET DST) So el cheapo fuel pressure meter (= your basic oil pressure meter, $23) was installed today in place of the cold start injector pipe (yes, METAL PIPE - dunno why hose wouldn't do). Results after some on-the-road testing were far from optimum. test condition fuel pressure sqrt(deltaP) Idle (20inHg/10.3psi/0.7bar vacuum) 2.1bar/31psi 1.67 0 pressure (=disconnected hose) 2.3bar/34psi 1.52 .5bar/7.4psi boost 2.6bar/38psi 1.45 .8bar/11.8psi boost 2.4bar/35psi 1.26 1.0bar/14.7psi boost 2.2bar/32psi 1.10 This means that all is ok until slightly above 0.5bar of boost (about 0.6) when fuel pump seems to run out of capacity, and as fuel demand still keeps rising (injector dwell time rises) the pressure starts to drop... So after 0.6-0.7 bar no extra fuel gets burned, and the mixtures starts to lean out, reaching stochiometric at 1.0 bar of boost. If I understand right, the amount of fuel delivered per unit of open injector time is ~directly proportional to the square root of pressure difference over the injector. In this case, there is extra enrichment above 0.15 bar of boost, approximately 5%. This helps somewhat. Fuel pump running with engine off seemed to confirm the diagnosis, applying pressure to the fuel pressure regulator was only able to get the pressure up to 2.9bar/43psi, at which poing the fuel pump sounded even worse than usual. It had gotten somewhat noisy already last year, seems that it got finally enough of running at full capacity after 2 months of rasied boost (I got better mixture for that time period). So looks like I need a new fuel pump, with enough capacity to supply my future needs (250-260hp). Have other people on the list run into problems with the stock fuel pump not being up to the job? What aftermarket pumps/ stock pumps from high-powered stock vehicles are available? At least Bosch makes one (HKS sells it too). If anyone has one in good condition for sale, I'm interested... -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 16:11:05 -0700 From: leslie@cadence.com (Leslie C. Fong) To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: (recent) low cost mods Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Greetings fellow Supra enthusiasts! I thought I'd tell my experiences with some recent mods to my '87 Supra turbo (MA-70/7M-GTE/Mark III). Over the past few weeks, I've installed the following: - Magnecor KV85 ignition plug (8.5mm) wires - New (cheap) Champion Premium Gold spark plugs #2071 - GREX (Trust) shock tower brace #481006 The Magnecor wires work as advertised, as they are metallic wires with enough shielding to prevent unacceptable levels of Radio Frequency Interference and Electro Magnetic Interference, say, over that of the stock (carbon) resistance wires. Presumably, the full power of the coils is now being sent to the plugs. Driveability of the car was already excellent, and now seems slightly better. This is unfortunately a biased impression, as I don't have a vericom, dyno, or run at the track to verify this with any scientific numbers. I can't measure the actual levels of the wires' shielding, but I don't have any significant level of RFI on the AM band in normal usage, unless the station's signal strength is very weak (e.g. driving under an overpass). The Trust tower brace passes directly over the ignition coils/wires on the 7M-GTE engine. I believe this serves to amplify the effects of RFI as evidenced by AM band noise. I was contemplating electically grounding the bar in attempts to reduce the noise, but the Magnecor wires seem to fix it enough as is. Some comments on the Magnecor set - Instructions are well written, especially those detailing problems with "Splitfire" plug (smooth) insulators. The thicker red jacket does indeed fit in the factory looms. The plug boots don't seal off the plug access holes as well as the Toyota OEM boots. This would probably only result in additional maintenance during tune-up time, unless you drive on really dirty "roads". The supplied coil terminal locking covers don't (snap-lock) fit like the factory equipment either. The fix is to remove them and use the factory cables' coil locks instead. Unfortunately, the plug boots don't appear to be as easily switched. There aren't any numbers printed on the wires/terminal boots. White "fingernail enamel" fixes that. You don't want to mix up the wires as the coils block the ability to trace their paths. A lot of talk has gone on in the past in the (Supras) list over what spark plugs to use in the 7M-GTE. Before, I was using very expensive HKS platinum plugs at US$150 a set. These have worked very well. On my last inspection of them, after 30K miles, they looked very worn, especially the outer "electrode". The gaps were at the maximum limits, but platinum plugs are supposedly non-adjustable (why? possibility of breakage?). Therefore I decided to try a cheaper plug source. Bosch platinums have been heavily criticized already, and ND/NGK platinums are fairly ridiculously priced too. At 1/10th the cost of the HKS's, and ~1/3 the cost of stock ND/NGK's I found some Champion "Premium Gold" plugs, center electrode tip made with some "gold palladium" alloy, which are guaranteed to last for 3 years with unlimited mileage! At only US$20 (for eight), I decided to give them a try. My initial impression was that they work OK here, but not quite as well as the HKS's (colder). My primary method of test was to check for detonation conditions using my usual 89 (R+M)/2 octane mid-grade crud. The little difference I could detect could probably be tuned by selecting a colder range plug. As an even tougher test, I tried filling up with 87 octane rot-gut, and I've found them to be usable, with some mild detonation under harsh conditions, not much different than with the aged HKS's. The parts guy I got the plugs from didn't know how to select some colder, so I just tried the standard "recommended" model. Colder ones are probably available given they're made by a major US manufacturer. Of course, it's not the magical platinum, but if the 3 year lifetime has any validity, I'd rather change my plugs every 30K miles anyways. This test was done using only stock turbo pressures - 7PSI. I haven't tried them with higher pressures (yet). Please note that I changed over to Magnecor ignition cables, and have other performance goodies too, so there may be some suitability interdependencies for these. Long term durability tests will require more time to complete. It would be interesting to compare these against the new (cheap too?) Rapidfire plugs mentioned earlier on the (Supras) list. I can't comment on any gas mileage improvements, as my car is currently suffering from a mysterious lowering of MPG after overheating. (I'm theorizing one or more sensors may have been damaged by this; needs more debugging, ECU says all is OK.) The (shock) "strut" tower bar was more of a cosmetic item purchase than anything else. I did notice a more crisp steering feel with it, and it only costs ~$120. It consists of two (steel?) castings which mount to the three shock bolts on either side of the engine compartment, and an aluminum bar which straddles them. My main concern when ordering it was whether or not it would work with the TEMS (Toyota Electronic Modulated Suspension) actuator modules. None of the GReddy/Trust literature available indicated whether it does or not, so I ordered one anyways, with the condition I could return if it didn't work. The answer is YES it fits, with reservations. You have to eliminate the TEMS's protective (steel) covers, and re-orient the left side TEMS module 180 degrees in order to clear the castings. Another caveat is that this thing required a lot of trial and error customization! Although designed specifically for this car, I found the castings to have too close proximity to the hood, resulting in wearing away of the insulation, paint, and metal of the underhood! Also, the clearance to the (turbocharged) intake manifold was insufficient as well! To remedy this required grinding the Trust assemblies, and re-installing, checking for wear on my car's parts(!), removing it, ...repeatedly over and over again (estimated 20 times by now!). I used a marking pen to check for wearing of parts due to the contact. The tower brace appears to be the same one (or style) pictured on the cover of GReddy's catalog and some of their magazine ads (pictured in front of an intercooler and other parts). Grinding was required anywhere the bar and nut comes into proximity with the intake manifold closer than 8mm, and the outer forward struts of the quad-mounts which come too close to some hood framing. Finally, as mentioned before, the brace introduces a little bit of ignition noise to the AM radio, as the bar probably acts as an antenna for stray RFI. Still, I feel the performance and appearance benefits (onced customized) outweigh this relatively minor irritant. Leslie '87 Supra turbo, targa, 5sp, HKS EAC-T (TEMS), leather, ONLY 172K miles xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: fuel going, going, gone... To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Matti, You might want to check out the stock pumps that are available on the VWs (and many other European cars) that have the Bosch continuous fuel injection (CIS system). These pumps have relatively high "zero flow" pressure, at least 70 psi OR MORE. I believe that a relatively high pressure is also maintained under flow conditions, in order to achieve good atomization with the injectors. A pump from a V8 Mercedes should provide sufficient pressure and flow capability for a 260 hp output. One thing to be careful of: whether the fuel pressure regulator can handle the extra flow required to bleed off the pressure to the 31 psi that you experience at idle. In any case, measurements like the one below will tell you if it will work. One other comment: the fact that the fuel pressure difference between idle (10.3 psi vacuum) and when the hose is disconnected (0 psi) is only 3 psi and not 10.3 psi indicates that there is something very wrong. Could be the pump, fuel filter, or regulator. Here in the US you can buy fuel pressure meters with a quick connect / disconnect fitting. The fitting attaches to a nipple that replaces one of the bolts that attach the fuel line to either the fuel rail or cold start injector. This way, connecting the meter is a one second operation. Cost is around $50 to $100 for the meter and plumbing. Does your EFI system from Toyota have any kind of fuel enrichment system that involves the fuel pump? I don't recall what the computer pinout is for your car (it's on your Web page, right? I checked it out a few months back, definitely one of the best on the Internet). Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: toyota-mods-owner To: toyota-mods Subject: fuel going, going, gone... Date: Friday, September 22, 1995 1:45AM So el cheapo fuel pressure meter (= your basic oil pressure meter, $23) was installed today in place of the cold start injector pipe (yes, METAL PIPE - dunno why hose wouldn't do). Results after some on-the-road testing were far from optimum. test condition fuel pressure sqrt(deltaP) Idle (20inHg/10.3psi/0.7bar vacuum) 2.1bar/31psi 1.67 0 pressure (=disconnected hose) 2.3bar/34psi 1.52 .5bar/7.4psi boost 2.6bar/38psi 1.45 .8bar/11.8psi boost 2.4bar/35psi 1.26 1.0bar/14.7psi boost 2.2bar/32psi 1.10 This means that all is ok until slightly above 0.5bar of boost (about 0.6) when fuel pump seems to run out of capacity, and as fuel demand still keeps rising (injector dwell time rises) the pressure starts to drop... So after 0.6-0.7 bar no extra fuel gets burned, and the mixtures starts to lean out, reaching stochiometric at 1.0 bar of boost. If I understand right, the amount of fuel delivered per unit of open injector time is ~directly proportional to the square root of pressure difference over the injector. In this case, there is extra enrichment above 0.15 bar of boost, approximately 5%. This helps somewhat. Fuel pump running with engine off seemed to confirm the diagnosis, applying pressure to the fuel pressure regulator was only able to get the pressure up to 2.9bar/43psi, at which poing the fuel pump sounded even worse than usual. It had gotten somewhat noisy already last year, seems that it got finally enough of running at full capacity after 2 months of rasied boost (I got better mixture for that time period). So looks like I need a new fuel pump, with enough capacity to supply my future needs (250-260hp). Have other people on the list run into problems with the stock fuel pump not being up to the job? What aftermarket pumps/ stock pumps from high-powered stock vehicles are available? At least Bosch makes one (HKS sells it too). If anyone has one in good condition for sale, I'm interested... -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 21:50:10 -0400 From: "Dick Byrd" To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: **Wrong Parts** Damn, those dealers piss me off. I picked up from my local, smiling Toyota dealer the metal-rubber bushings that go into the lower control arms on an '85 Camry to hold the anti-roll (stabilizer) bar. Had to beat the crap out of the old ones with a cold chisel to get them out. Then I find out that the ones the dealer gave me were at least 1/4" to big to go into the holes. There I am - control arms with no bushings, and bushings that won't fit into the control arms. *Shit* Go back to the dealer and he looks it up again and says: Oh, yours is an '85 Huh! On those, you have to repalce the *whole conmtrol arm* which has the bushings pressed in at the factory (No wonder I had to beat the crap out of them). And the bad news is -- $139.00 EACH. Great Day!!. I'm not giving the rising sun $238 for new control arms -- NEVER. I reassembled the arm with large washers and exhaust hanger rubber donuts and it seems to be OK. Am I due for a quick trip into a ditch? Don't tell me to bus those new control arms. I'd sooner drive it off the nearest cliff! Stuff from Dick Byrd byrd@mnsinc.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:44:26 -0700 To: Matti Kalalahti , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... >future needs (250-260hp). Have other people on the list run into problems >with the stock fuel pump not being up to the job? What aftermarket pumps/ >stock pumps from high-powered stock vehicles are available? >At least Bosch makes one (HKS sells it too). If anyone has one >in good condition for sale, I'm interested... I will be installing a new fuel pump on my RX-7 shortly (another project car). I was going to use an inline (second) pump. But I decided to go with an intake replacement. If you call HKS, they also sell it, however at a substancially higher price than my source (Dynamic Autosports in Irvine, CA.). Its basically the stock intank pump from a Mazda Cosmo in Japan (enough fuel delivery for 500 horsepower, used on 3-rotor twin-turbo motor). It's slightly under $300 I think. I bought it a while ago so I forgot. If you do decide to use an inline pump though, consider some other options before buying the HKS one. The HKS one, as well as the Accel (DFI) one and the NOS nitrous oxide systems one, are ALL made by Bosch. But each is a different model. From what I have learned, the Accel flows the most, enough for 800-900 horsepower (like for Buick Grand Nationals n' stuff). Then the NOS pump. Then the HKS pump. The NOS pump is around $150, much cheaper than the HKS one. SX also sells one but its good for like 1200 horsepower or something crazy. Is this for your 1982 Toyota Carina ? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Charles_Flick_at_hsc-ya@platinum.brooks.af.mil Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:45:44 CST To: TOYOTA-MODS@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: ME/MINE/MODS Name : Charles Flick Location : SAN ANTONIO, TX Model : 1977 Celica, FASTBACK Engine : 20R Mods : NONE Model : 1977 TRUCK, LONG BED Engine : 20R Mods : NONE Model : 1977 Celica, FASTBACK Engine : 22R Mods : STREET PERFORMANCE CAM & SPRINGS POLISHED HEAD & INTAKE MANIFOLD PORTS MAGS AND LOW PROFILE TIRES NEWER SEATS (83? CELICA) 12" SPEAKERS email :FLICK@PLATINUM.BROOKS.AF.MIL xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods From: "john.limcangco" Date: 22 Sep 95 14:29:42 Subject: Transmission swap. Ok modders, I know some of you have done this before..... I just located and purchased a W-50 transmission to mate with my 18RG engine. I currently have a 4-speed manual (W-40?) installed and would like to yank that out and install the 5-speed. The 4-speed is still in the car and I really haven't compared the external dimensions of the two transmissions. (i.e. location of shifter, transmission mounts, length, width, height, input shaft, output shaft, etc.). I'm under the impression the outside dimensions between the two transmissions are the same. Also, the 5-speed did not come with the shift lever (Is that the right name? You know, the thing that protrudes into the passenger compartment that you move around to shift gears... ) Can the 'shift lever' from the 4-speed be used in the 5-speed? Would swapping transmission be a bolt-on procedure? I would appreciate any info or tips that anyone in the list can offer. Thanks in advance, John Limcangco Manila, Philippines '79 Cressida 18R-G xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods From: "john.limcangco" Date: 22 Sep 95 15:03:27 Subject: RE: fuel going, going, gone... I have 2 Mikuni 40's and a stock mechanical fuel pump. I've noticed that the car runs 'better' right after I fill the gas tank. You probably won't feel the improvement, unless you really paid attention. I've been patronizing the same gas station, so I can rule out bad gas. The fuel filter has just been replaced recently. My theory is that when the tank is full, the fuel pressure is stronger than when the tank is almost empty. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, so I really don't know. Has this phenomenon been documented anywhere? In addition to that, my gas tank was accidentally dented right in the middle. This happened when the car was being jacked using the differential's 'pumpkin' as a jack point. Now imagine the jack slipping, and the car dropping (!) on the shop's crocodile jack : ( Would the dent have contributed to the problem? Would an electric fuel pump be needed? What kind of tests should I perform so I can determine whether an aftermarket pump is needed? Am I imagining things? Thanks again, John Limcangco Manila, Philippines '79 Cressida 18R-G xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:06:54 +0300 (EET DST) > You might want to check out the stock pumps that are available on the VWs > (and many other European cars) that have the Bosch continuous fuel injection > (CIS system). These pumps have relatively high "zero flow" pressure, at > least 70 psi OR MORE. I believe that a relatively high pressure is also > maintained under flow conditions, in order to achieve good atomization with > the injectors. A pump from a V8 Mercedes should provide sufficient > pressure and flow capability for a 260 hp output. One thing to be careful > of: whether the fuel pressure regulator can handle the extra flow required > to bleed off the pressure to the 31 psi that you experience at idle. In any > case, measurements like the one below will tell you if it will work. I guess ther is no other way to know than trial and error... And with maybe under 0.2% of the road cars in Finland having less than 200hp used fuel pumps with enough delivery capacity don't grow on the trees. > One other comment: the fact that the fuel pressure difference between idle > (10.3 psi vacuum) and when the hose is disconnected (0 psi) is only 3 psi > and not 10.3 psi indicates that there is something very wrong. Could be the > pump, fuel filter, or regulator. Yes, I'm not yet sure if the regulator is up to its job either, for this very reason. However, it really doesn't matter at vacuum conditions, mixture seems to stay reasonable with no driveability problems. It's for sure not the fuel filter, as I just changed it a few weeks ago. Didn't make any difference in mixture vs. boost. > Here in the US you can buy fuel pressure meters with a quick connect / > disconnect fitting. The fitting attaches to a nipple that replaces one of > the bolts that attach the fuel line to either the fuel rail or cold start > injector. This way, connecting the meter is a one second operation. Cost > is around $50 to $100 for the meter and plumbing. Nothing is a one second operation in this engine compartment ;) Yes, I'm aware of the US prices for a more accurate fuel pressure meter. But I'm on a budget, and this setup seems to work well enough to point out major problems. Fine tuning could be made observing the fuel mixture (oxygen sensor voltage). Oh, and not having the cold start injector doesn't seem to make much difference, cold starts had been ujp to now as this: almost start immediately, but not quite, crank 5 seconds and it finally starts. Now just that _almost_ starting is left out... funny, the cold start injector switch measured at 30 ohms when cold (10C). Pressure is kept for a while (>10minutes) at 2.3psi or so, but is at zero after 2-3 hours. > Does your EFI system from Toyota have any kind of fuel enrichment system > that involves the fuel pump? I don't recall what the computer pinout is for > your car (it's on your Web page, right? I checked it out a few months back, > definitely one of the best on the Internet). Yes, the pinout is on my WWW page. I don't think there is any fuel enrichment using the fuel pump. These work by applying the voltage through a resistor at some conditions, and straight at other conditions. What are the contioins fo notuseing the resisotor? cold start/boost? BTW, the fuel pump I have seems to be the original pre-83 one, similar to the one used in Supras at least, outside the fuel tank. The wires seem to be somewhat undersized, as there is a voltage drop of 1.6-2V to the pump (10.4V with engine off, 12.4V engine running with 14.0V at battery). I also tried how much pressure the pump could deliver with the return line clamped shut, vacuum line disconnected: engine not running/10.4V 2.9bar/43psi idling/12.4V 3.4bar/50psi 3.4bar at idle made the mixture waaay rich (estimated lamda 0.66), but just kept the engine running. So re-wireing the fuel pump would deliver some improvement, but not enough. I have another fuel pump which probably can't deliver more fuel than the one I have now, but I could use BOTH, right? Now for the big question: should I install them in parallel or in series? -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Oops... (Re: fuel going, going, gone...) To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 01:52:23 +0300 (EET DST) > And with maybe under 0.2% of the road cars in Finland having less than ^^^^ should of course be "more than" > 200hp used fuel pumps with enough delivery capacity don't grow on the > trees. I hope yor internal error correction systems should be able to work out rest of the typos I made. Oh well, that's what you get from writing after 6 beers ;) -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: k124476@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 16:00:41 PDT >I have another fuel pump which probably can't deliver more fuel >than the one I have now, but I could use BOTH, right? Now for the >big question: should I install them in parallel or in series? Matti, I would install them in parallel. If you install it in series, it's probably only as good as the worst pump in the line. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:36:54 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: me/mine/mods Name: Brent Dye Location: Columbus, OH Model: 1994 MR2 Turbo Engine: 3S-GTE Mods: None (yet) email: bd112593@oak.cats.ohiou.edu xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 06:56:47 -0400 From: "ROGERS" To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! Name : Roger Smith Location : Toronto, Canada Model : 1983 Toyota Starlet Engine : 4AGE (Twin cam 16) & Corolla GTS gearbox, TRD gear kit (1st and 2nd gears only), 78 Celica rear end, 4:1 diff. Mods : TRD Race Cams & Springs polished head, Twin Mikuni 44's, TRD header & Custom Exhaust 13x7 Minilite 205x60x13's tires, Bucket seats from 89 Honda civic/crx Si Daily Driver: 1987 Nissan King Cab pickup ;-) NEW: (Since first posted to list) *Remove Stereo* Fibre Glass body kit and body work, Velocity Stacks. Track Data: The only official track data I have is 14.708 in the 1/4 mile. (recorded at the cayuga speed way about 1.5 years ago), however the emphasis for this car is autocrossing. (I didn't get a chance at all this year) email rogers@golddisk.com I've been out of touch with this group for a while, and Chris recently hunted me down to invite me back. Thanks Chris. I Still have the passion for things toyota, however job responsibilities don't allow me to tinker as much as I used to. Interests: Formula Atlantic and Forumla 1. (*WARNING*: As a good friend of the chief Technical inspector for Formula Atlantic, I may have a small bias for the 4AGE. Roger Smith Gold Disk Inc. rogers@golddisk.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:16:54 -0700 To: Gary Hong , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... At 04:00 PM 9/22/95 PDT, Gary Hong wrote: >>I have another fuel pump which probably can't deliver more fuel >>than the one I have now, but I could use BOTH, right? Now for the >>big question: should I install them in parallel or in series? > >Matti, > >I would install them in parallel. If you install it in series, it's probably >only as good as the worst pump in the line. > >Gary Grand Nationals and Turbo Mustangs run SX pumps in series with the stock pump.. thats also the way that HKS reccommends installing the Talon/Eclipse pumps too.. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 15:32:31 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: MR2 MkII Oil Filter First off I'd like to say hello to everyone out there because I'm new to this bbs. I've noticed that requesting text files from majordomo usually only gets you things that aren't updated too often. However, I am very pleased to see how many users are out there actively posting! I enjoy reading all the posts I've been getting. They're interesting as well as informative. My question concerns the top-loading oil filters found on the MkII's. I went to get my oil changed about a month ago (yes, I don't change my oil because of how cheap it has become to have it done elsewhere--it's a convienience factor) and the mechanic warned me of a problem he had come across with the "new" MR2's filter. He asked me how long I had driven the car today, so I told him awhile and asked why? He said that they would have to let the car sit for awhile to let the engine cool because of a scare they had a few months earlier. I was intrigued to say the least. He said that they were changing some lady's oil in her MkII, and when they removed the filter apparently some of the old oil caught on fire on the engine! They said they had flames of burning oil dripping down into the pit. Of course, they got the fire extiguisher and got it under control quickly, but was this a freak occurence? Is the top-loading design of the oil filter a flaw in Toyota engineering? I'm sure there is a reason for putting it there, but it really made some mechanics sweat around here! Anyway I'm curious to hear the responces you guys might have. Let me have it. -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH 1994 MR2 Turbo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: garyh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, k124476@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 12:55:38 PDT >At 04:00 PM 9/22/95 PDT, Gary Hong wrote: >>>I have another fuel pump which probably can't deliver more fuel >>>than the one I have now, but I could use BOTH, right? Now for the >>>big question: should I install them in parallel or in series? >> >>Matti, >> >>I would install them in parallel. If you install it in series, it's probably >>only as good as the worst pump in the line. >> >>Gary > >Grand Nationals and Turbo Mustangs run SX pumps in series with the stock >pump.. thats also the way that HKS reccommends installing the Talon/Eclipse >pumps too.. If they do it that way, then I *probably* would too, but if you put them in series and one pump is not as good or powerful as the other, wouldn't that be a problem? If you did it in parallel, the volume of fuel would be the combin- ation of the two outputs. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:52:53 -1000 From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: SEMA SHOW !!! Hey... Anyone Intrested in going to the SEMA Show in Las Vegas ? End of Next Month... I Know this is sorta last minute and should have posted this before. I know myself and my other friend Ted (Ted Koseki of Rec.car.audio and CSR) are going, maybe 2 other people.. Some other guys from a Speed shop, HyperSports Racing are going also. Rd ya wanna go ? >=) I know Chris is maybe going..and heard a rumour Botoboy may go.. Anyone else ? My dad's go a place in Vegas, although I dunno if the new house will be finished by then..maybe we can all sleep in the Bus or the Trailer or something =) -Allen T "Koji" Kam 1994 Rollerblade Tarmac CE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:36:57 -1000 From: Allen T "Koji" Kam To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Hmmmm... Down Again ? Is this machine down again ? Shall I attempt to mirror this mailing list ? -Koji xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: koji@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: SEMA SHOW !!! Date: Sun, 24 Sep 95 11:25:47 PDT Tell me more about the SEMA show. Thanks dude, Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 13:43:02 -0700 To: Gary Hong , garyh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... >>Grand Nationals and Turbo Mustangs run SX pumps in series with the stock >>pump.. thats also the way that HKS reccommends installing the Talon/Eclipse >>pumps too.. > >If they do it that way, then I *probably* would too, but if you put them in >series and one pump is not as good or powerful as the other, wouldn't that be >a problem? If you did it in parallel, the volume of fuel would be the combin- >ation of the two outputs. > >Gary One of my friends has a Mazda RX-2, which he did run two pumps parallel. My other friend has a 1991 Supra Turbo, which he ran an SX inline fuel pump. He had spoken to many people before deciding to do it in series. He had told me why, but I forgot, but Dick Byrd's explanation sounds right. I also heard from someone that to do a parallel fuel system right, you had to run parallel lines all the way up to the fuel rail (or carb I guess). xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 17:45:06 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: MR2 MkII Oil Filter > First off I'd like to say hello to everyone out there because I'm new to >this bbs. I've noticed that requesting text files from majordomo usually only >gets you things that aren't updated too often. However, I am very pleased to >see how many users are out there actively posting! I enjoy reading all the >posts I've been getting. They're interesting as well as informative. We're working on this, right Monte and Tom J? > My question concerns the top-loading oil filters found on the MkII's. > ... (*scary story about flaming oil filter changes deleted*) Hmmm, sounds like a text-book case of needing a remote setup. I'm not familiar with this setup. If it's a standard screw-on type application, a $40 remote will 1.)Move it to a more convenient/safe place and 2.)allow you to run a big racing oil filter. BTW, I've been forgetting to mention it, but I got a flyer from Lou Fusz Toyota a week or 2 ago and they have Toyota-brand oil filters on sale for $3.95 each. If anyone is excited about this and/or finds it a good deal, and if you don't already have a phone number for LFT, email me. If enough folks are interested in the same filter I'll order a case and save us some money. BTW, this lasts through September only. Chris -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 09:32:30 +1000 From: Peter Mejak I have 2 Mikuni 40's and a stock mechanical fuel pump. I've noticed that the car runs 'better' right after I fill the gas tank. You probably won't feel the improvement, unless you really paid attention. I've been patronizing the same gas station, so I can rule out bad gas. The fuel filter has just been replaced recently. My theory is that when the tank is full, the fuel pressure is stronger than when the tank is almost empty. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, so I really don't know. Has this phenomenon been documented anywhere? I've noticed the above as well. Heard a theory about it somewhere. Apparently it can be caused by a blocked fuel tank breather valve. Goes like this : breather valve blocked, extra pressure in tank has nowhere to go, hence forces more fuel into line to carb/injection, hence higher fuel pressure with a full tank. Sounds plausible to me. I guess it could also be a gravity thing, with more mass pushing more fuel into the line? At any rate, the increase in performance (for me at least), is noticeable but not huge. If it does mean a blocked tank breather, I'm not too fussed -- my tank can theoretically vent into the cabin, which is not exactly something I want. My tank is just behind the back seat with just the seat & a cloth-type cover separating it from the cabin. Quote from a friend after seeing my car without the back seat it : "your tank is *THERE*! I'm never smoking in your car again" :-) . Peter. ====================================================== Peter Mejak, HP Response Centre, Melbourne, Australia peterm@aus.hp.com ====================================================== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:05:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Fuel Pumps The question of placing multiple fuel pumps in parallel or series is analogous to that of storage batteries in parallel or series, where voltage is equivalent to pressure and amperage is equivalent to flow. For maximum flow, place the pumps in parallel, for maximum pressure place the pumps in series. If your desired pressure as determined by the fuel pressure regulator is near the maximum pressure a pump can comfortably deliver, then the pump will be over worked and may fail prematurely. If you place two pumps in series, the first pump raises the fuel pressure from atmospheric pressure to pressure 'x' the second pump raises fuel pressure from pressure 'x' to pressure 'y', where pressure 'y' may be well beyond the maximum pressure capable of either individual pump. If your desired pressure is within the design limits of your pump, but more flow is needed, then place the second pump in parallel. ___ (o o) +-----ooO-(_)-Ooo-----+ | Craig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 06:10:03 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: **Wrong Parts** (*Extremely sad story about dorky dealers deleted*) Dick, I think the first thing I'd do is check on how much the _dealer_ cost of those control arms are. I think that if they sold you the wrong stuff, and it ended up screwing you up, the absolute least they could do is sell you new ones at their cost. That is the LEAST! I may try to get them to do more. Maybe insist that they install them too, or take a loss on them. Don't go easy on these guys. My best friend works at a dealership, and I spend a lot of time down there. Ya gotta whine! Ask for the phone number of your regional Toyota customer service person. They _have_ to give it to you. If they don't, call 1-800-GO-TOYOTA and scream at them a while. If none of this works, can anyone tell me if the 85 Camry has suspension components like any other Toyota, say the Supra or Corolla? If so, we may be able to find Dick something from Energy Suspension that would work. The ES 8-3101 is the lower control arm bushing set that fits nearly everything Toyota made up until the late 80's. They don't list Camry, but then again I doubt they every tried them on a Camry. Of course, the footnote says that you must use the existing metal outer shell, which I'll bet was lost in the process of removing the old bushings. Keep us informed, and good luck! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods From: "john.limcangco" Date: 25 Sep 95 11:27:27 Subject: Transmission swap. > Ok modders, I know some of you have done this before..... I did it! I can answer my own questions.... > I just located and purchased a W-50 transmission to mate with my 18RG engine. > I currently have a 4-speed manual (W-40?) installed and would like to yank that > out and install the 5-speed. > The 4-speed is still in the car and I really haven't compared the external > dimensions of the two transmissions. (i.e. location of shifter, transmission > mounts, length, width, height, input shaft, output shaft, etc.). I'm under > the impression the outside dimensions between the two transmissions are the > same. The outside dimensions are the generally same. Unless you take note of some small details, its very easy to confuse the 5-speed from the 4-speed. The biggest difference is in the bell-housing. The 5-speed's bell-housing was smooth while the 4-speed had either cooling fins or structural braces. I used the 4-speed's bell housing during the swap since the W-50's bell housing require a bigger rubber boot for the clutch fork. I didn't have a rubber boot that would fit lying around.... > Also, the 5-speed did not come with the shift lever (Is that the right name? > You know, the thing that protrudes into the passenger compartment that you move > around to shift gears... ) Can the 'shift lever' from the 4-speed be used in > the 5-speed? Yes. The shift levers are interchangeable. I simply pulled the shift lever from the 4-speed and transplanted it into the 5-speed. > Would swapping transmission be a bolt-on procedure? I would appreciate any > info or tips that anyone in the list can offer. Swapping the transmission was indeed a bolt-on procedure. The hardest part was jacking the car high enough that the transmission can be slipped in and out from under it. Since the transmission I got was sitting in the salvage yard's shop floor for an undetermined period of time, I wasn't sure how 'clean' the insides of the transmission were. I filled the tranny with fresh gear oil and drove the car for around 10 miles... spending some time in each of the gears, including reverse. Then I drained the oil and refilled it with fresh oil. The oil that came out had some crud in it. Most of it was caught by the drain plug's magnet. I'll drain the oil again this weekend and fill it up with fresh oil just to be on the safe side. John Limcangco Manila, Philippines '79 Cressida 18R-G xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Adrienne Mora Subject: Re: fuel going, going, gone... To: Toyota Mods > My tank is just behind the > back seat with just the seat & a cloth-type cover separating it from > the cabin. Quote from a friend after seeing my car without the back > seat it : "your tank is *THERE*! I'm never smoking in your car again" > :-) . Hee hee, yeah, people look really impressed when I tell them the fuel tank in my car "is" the tunnel between the two seat in my MR2. : ) Ade '86 SC T-Top MR2 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Michael Kronvold To: "toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com" Subject: RE: fuel going, going, gone... Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 10:18:25 -0500 >I have 2 Mikuni 40's and a stock mechanical fuel pump. I've noticed that the >car runs 'better' right after I fill the gas tank. You probably won't feel the >improvement, unless you really paid attention. I've been patronizing the same >gas station, so I can rule out bad gas. The fuel filter has just been replaced >recently. >My theory is that when the tank is full, the fuel pressure is stronger than >when the tank is almost empty. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, so I >really don't know. >Has this phenomenon been documented anywhere? > I've noticed the above as well. Heard a theory about it somewhere. > Apparently it can be caused by a blocked fuel tank breather valve. > Goes like this : breather valve blocked, extra pressure in tank has > nowhere to go, hence forces more fuel into line to carb/injection, > hence higher fuel pressure with a full tank. Sounds plausible to > me. > I guess it could also be a gravity thing, with more mass pushing > more fuel into the line? I believe it's more like this: as fuel is drawn from the tank there is no air in through the blocked breather valve causing the air pressure in the tank to lower which the fuel pump then has to fight against to get fuel out of the tank. When then tank is full, the pressure is more equalized, as it empties the air inside the tank cannot equalize with the outside air and creates this low pressure area. > At any rate, the increase in performance (for me at least), is > noticeable but not huge. On my supra I have noticed that towards the last 1/4 tank I have extremely low power above 4500 rpms, when the fuel draw should be at it's greatest. I think at low rpm's the pump is strong enough to overcome the pressure but at higher rpm's it can't sustain the flow. Fill the tank and it drives like a winner. I have been meaning to test this theory: When the tank is low on fuel and I notice the performance loss, Open the cap and let the air equalize (do you hear a rush of air when you open your cap to fill your tank? I do.) Then get back in and drive and see if this effects things. I thought of this many years ago, and to this day I have never once remembered to do it before filling the tank. so? anyone wanna punch some holes in my theory? -- Michael Kronvold, Network Administrator, Addison Machine Engineering 708 543 9191 '90 Supra 7M-GE 44k xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:06:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! Hi Rodger, can you tell me what is involved in puting 4A-GE in Starlet. I imagine the difficulties would include engine mounts, header and drive shaft. Are there things you would do differently after having done one of these? ___ (o o) +-----ooO-(_)-Ooo-----+ | Craig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:25:46 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment I was talking to a friend today who brought up a possible mod I've never heard about. He said that there is a device (heat exchanger??) that supercools the fuel before it is delivered to the engine for combustion. The other thing he mentioned was a way to have your existing turbocharger "adjusted for peak performance." It sounds like a way to change the max boost given. I asked if he was sure the turbo was not after-factory and he said it was not. However, the question still remains: can this be done FOR AN MR2's turbo? He did it on an 87 Buick Grand National Turbocharged (V6 stock)... shaved his quarter mile time down to a 13.90. As far as the supercooler goes, I'm really not sure! -- -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH Red 94 Turbo @15.5k AKA:Red Sled Lic plate:MSTR 2 Happiest on:sunny day, tops out, @7250rpm with 10 psi boost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:34:46 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Turbo Timers (HKS/GReddy) I've been browsing the MR2 web site and I've been taking a look at turbo timers as a way of extending the life of my turbo. I knew that after frequent/excessive turbo use, the engine should be allowed to idle for a certain amount of time. The turbo timers sound like a good idea in allowing you to park the car and go do whatever you need to do while the engine idles for however long you want it to before shutting off, but why does such a simple device cost $130-190!! I will probably continue to take this safety precaution the old fashioned way, but another question is HOW LONG should you let it idle? The timers allow for settings of 1-10 mins, but what would a good setting on a timer be? I know it depends how hard your running it, but what's a good "rule of thumb?" -- -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH Red 94 Turbo @15.5k AKA:Red Sled Lic plate:MSTR 2 Happiest on:sunny day, tops out, @7250rpm with 10 psi boost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:06:23 -0700 To: "ROGERS" , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! > >Interests: Formula Atlantic and Forumla 1. (*WARNING*: As a good friend of the >chief Technical inspector for Formula Atlantic, I may have a small bias for the >4AGE. > >Roger Smith >Gold Disk Inc. >rogers@golddisk.com > Tech Inspector eh ? I was wondering if maybe you or your friend might be able to pass on a few tips about building a bullet proof 8000-8500 RPM turbo, supercharged, or twincharged 4AG ? Also, maybe some suggestions on cylinder head porting and cam shaft selection.. thanks in advance.. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:23:42 -0700 To: Brent Matthew Dye , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment At 10:25 PM 9/27/95 -0400, Brent Matthew Dye wrote: > I was talking to a friend today who brought up a possible mod I've never >heard about. He said that there is a device (heat exchanger??) that supercools >the fuel before it is delivered to the engine for combustion. The other thing >he mentioned was a way to have your existing turbocharger "adjusted for peak >performance." It sounds like a way to change the max boost given. I asked if >he was sure the turbo was not after-factory and he said it was not. However, >the question still remains: can this be done FOR AN MR2's turbo? He did it on >an 87 Buick Grand National Turbocharged (V6 stock)... shaved his quarter mile >time down to a 13.90. As far as the supercooler goes, I'm really not sure! > The supercooler you speak of is probably a Cool Can.. its an old school V8 trick.. its like an insulated coffee can that you run a coil of (hard) fuel line in.. then you pour alcohol & dry ice or just plain ol' dry ice in it.. when the gas is atomized in your combustion chamber, it'd be like getting a blast of cold air.. or having a giant intercooler.. As far as the "adjusted for peak performance" goes.. I don't have any clue as to waht he is saying.. but you can turn your boost up to like 14 or 15 psi without any problems.. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:26:55 -0700 To: Brent Matthew Dye , From: Aric Shen Subject: Re: Turbo Timers (HKS/GReddy) At 11:34 PM 9/27/95 -0400, Brent Matthew Dye wrote: > I've been browsing the MR2 web site and I've been taking a look at turbo >timers as a way of extending the life of my turbo. I knew that after >frequent/excessive turbo use, the engine should be allowed to idle for a >certain amount of time. The turbo timers sound like a good idea in allowing >you to park the car and go do whatever you need to do while the engine idles >for however long you want it to before shutting off, but why does such a simple >device cost $130-190!! I will probably continue to take this safety precaution >the old fashioned way, but another question is HOW LONG should you let it idle? >The timers allow for settings of 1-10 mins, but what would a good setting on a >timer be? I know it depends how hard your running it, but what's a good "rule >of thumb?" > Old fashioned way ? Hahaha.. you'll soon tire of sitting in the car while your friends leave you in the parking lot.. I've convinced girls to even get them.. its a necessity.. my friend's dad has it on a Volvo.. its worth it.. I used to cool my turbo down for 30 secs if it was a short drive on city streets, 1 minute if I had been at either (1) high boost for a decent amount of time or (2) I had been on the freeway, 3 minutes if I had just boosted or just got off the freeway (like to get gas), or 5 minutes after a blazing 11 sec 1/4 mile run.. (not yet, but hopefully soon :).. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 06:11:33 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Test Message Cc: tm-wob@cyberspace.cyberauto.com We were having some problems on the CAP host, and I needed to test them. Sorry for the inconvenience! Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 06:22:40 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! >email rogers@golddisk.com Uh, just a note in case it slipped past anyone...Don't try to "reply to sender" on Roger's email unless you edit the address and put the one above in its place. gatewy!ROGERS won't work! Chris -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Mark Sink - Imonics Development Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:19:34 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment > I was talking to a friend today who brought up a possible mod I've never > heard about. He said that there is a device (heat exchanger??) that supercools > the fuel before it is delivered to the engine for combustion. The other thing > he mentioned was a way to have your existing turbocharger "adjusted for peak > performance." It sounds like a way to change the max boost given. I asked if > he was sure the turbo was not after-factory and he said it was not. However, > the question still remains: can this be done FOR AN MR2's turbo? He did it on > an 87 Buick Grand National Turbocharged (V6 stock)... shaved his quarter mile > time down to a 13.90. As far as the supercooler goes, I'm really not sure! > > -- > -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH > Red 94 Turbo @15.5k > AKA:Red Sled Lic plate:MSTR 2 > Happiest on:sunny day, tops out, @7250rpm with 10 psi boost > What are the proven gains for cooling fuel? In Formula One, they heat fuel, or have in the past, and show hp gains by doing so. mark sink xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:22:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Hilliard To: Brent Matthew Dye Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Brent Matthew Dye wrote: > heard about. He said that there is a device (heat exchanger??) that supercools > the fuel before it is delivered to the engine for combustion. The other thing He could be talking about an ice can. It's an old drag racing trick. You have a can that you plumb a spiral of metal fuel line into with the inlet at the top and out let at the bottom and you fill the can with ice and water. The ice water circulates around the spiral of line and chills the gas. Cool dense gas makes hp's :) But then again......he could be talking about something else;) **************************************************************** * |\/\/\/| ___________________ * | | / \ * | | ____________ / Catch this airhead \____ * | (0)(0) / \ / at \ * C _) / \/ cxh6989@jackson.freenet.org | * | ,___| < AYE CARUMBA!!! \ / * | / \ / \ "I didn't do it, / * /====\ \____________/ \ Nobody saw me, ------------ */ \ \ You can't prove a thing!!! / ***************************************\____________________________/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Scott, Dan" To: ToyMods Subject: Heating/cooling fuel Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 08:28:00 PDT In my primitive understanding of "How It All Works" what you want is cool dense air and hot (vaporized) fuel. In the combustion chamber the most bang comes from the vaporized fuel and the rest (liquid) is wasted. The reason (I think) that cars don't come with fuel heaters on them is for safety. Intercoolers on turbo/super charged cars are to get rid of the heat released when the intake air is compressed. Likewise when gases expand they require energy (heat) , same with when liquids change to gases. Have you ever used a spray can, remember how they get cold when you use them. So in order for the gasoline to vaporize it would require heat. In the ideal situation the combustion chamber would hold the exact amount of fuel vapor and oxygen that could possibly be burnt by the time the piston reaches the bottom of it's stroke. Ain't life great? Dan Scott '88 Celica 4WD xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:14:46 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: all turbo timer respondants Thanks for the advise on time to cool turbo down. I may break down and get one someday I get tired of being left in the parking lot. -- -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH Red 94 Turbo @15.5k AKA:Red Sled Lic plate:MSTR 2 Happiest on:sunny day, tops out, @7250rpm with 10 psi boost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:56:06 -0400 From: Brent Matthew Dye To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: remember the Toyota today article? I read the Toyota Today article last week with the rest of you guys, and I really enjoyed the article a lot. It had plenty of good things to say about MR2s, so why wouldn't I like it, right? I had been keeping this to myself, but I figured I would point out a serious error in the article. They said that with the MKII's came a bigger 2.2 liter engine with a turbocharger to crank out 200 bhp. Sorry, Toyota, but don't you mean 2.0!! The NA's had a 2.2! Come on now, you designed the cars, remember?!? It was an honest mistake, however, I just never expected it coming from Toyota. -- -Brent Dye- Columbus, OH Red 94 Turbo @15.5k AKA:Red Sled Lic plate:MSTR 2 Happiest on:sunny day, tops out, @7250rpm with 10 psi boost xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Mark Sink - Imonics Development Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:35:24 -0400 To: keithka@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Cc: mr2-interest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, > From keithka@microsoft.com Thu Sep 28 17:21:26 1995 > X-Msmail-Message-Id: 6304E926 > X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 6304E926 > From: Keith Kaplan > To: uunet!imonics.com!msink@uunet.uu.net > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 13:43:18 TZ > Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment > X-Msxmtid: red-56-msg950928204546MTP[01.51.01]000000b2-40184 > Content-Length: 1097 > > Way back in F1's turbo days (around the mid-late 80's) when there was a > rule stating how large a fuel tank you could have and refueling was > prohibited, the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more > liters of it into the tanks. The assumption was that the extra amount > stuffed in would get used up in the first few laps before it could heat > back up and expand in the tanks. You are the second person to mention this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a liquid does not expand and contract under changing temps like a gas does. Another person mentioned cooled fuel was more dense, and so you'd get more HP. I don't see how an injector is going to let more fuel in just because it's colder. 295 cc/min is 295 cc/min at 0 degrees or 100 degrees. And 10 ml of water at 50 degrees is not going to be more than 10 ml of water at 100 degrees. IS IT? Since gas is sold by the gallon... "I like my gas cold" you get more that way. Doesn't make sense. If it did, then gas temperature would probably be regulated before you bought it. So the statement: "the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more liters of it into the tanks." doesn't make sense to me, or have I just totally missed something here (or in school)? Mark Sink xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Craig Pugsley Subject: 3T GTEU wiring diagram sought.. To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:39:01 +1000 (EST) Hi there, I have in my hand a fuel computer for a 3T GTEU engine, that came from a Japanese engine importer. I am trying to find a diagram for how the computer connects to the engine and sensors (ie an EFI wiring diagram). Can anyone help me out here? Even the pinout of the connector on the ECU would be a start. [Background info: This computer appears to be an analog op amp based type computer. There are a dozen or so resistors mounted on PCB pins that are the calibration for the 'computer'. I am trying to figure out if I can use this computer with pots to replace the resistors to make my own cheap 'programmable' computer] Cheers, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:54:08 +1000 From: Peter Mejak Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Hi All, I might just throw my 2 cents in re this thread. Regarding Mark's comment about a liquid having the same density whether hot or cold, I'm no Chemist (& didn't do Chemistry in school), but I believe fuel is actually less dense when hot. It was for this reason that I heard fuel companies were looking at having their bowsers compensate for temperature. Apparently, customers get less fuel in their tanks for a given volume indicated on the bowser. Maybe it has something to do with the volatility of fuel & the way the volume of fuel being dispensed is measured by the bowser. As far as cold fuel vs. hot fuel goes, I have personal experience with this. I modified my K series engine, adding aftermarket headers & a downdraft Weber carb. This was done in the summer & ran great. Then when the colder weather came along, I found that the car wouldn't idle. Turns out the carb was "icing up". The K series engine has an "upstairs-downstairs" inlet/outlet manifold. The inlet is heated by the exhaust manifold (they are connected). Putting aftermarket headers removed this heating & hence caused the icing. Basically, the fuel/air mixture was too cold to vaporise properly. I've since had a water-jacket cast up that sits under the inlet manifold & warms it. This has relieved the problem somewhat, but not completely. Running an "open" air cleaner that doesn't take hot air from around the exhaust manifold doesn't help either. Basically, it's for the above reason that I want to convert to an EFI engine in my car -- better able to handle temperature extremes. For me, the Weber has always been great at or near the temperature/humidity of the day it was tuned, but not so great otherwise. Peter. ====================================================== Peter Mejak, HP Response Centre, Melbourne, Australia peterm@aus.hp.com ====================================================== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: 3T GTEU wiring diagram sought.. To: "diy_efi (postings)" , Try the following web page: http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ and follow the links to: http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/vehicles/3T-GTEfi.html There is a lot of info here on the 3T-GTEU engine and EFI computer. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: toyota-mods-owner To: toyota-mods Subject: 3T GTEU wiring diagram sought.. Date: Friday, September 29, 1995 9:39AM Hi there, I have in my hand a fuel computer for a 3T GTEU engine, that came from a Japanese engine importer. I am trying to find a diagram for how the computer connects to the engine and sensors (ie an EFI wiring diagram). Can anyone help me out here? Even the pinout of the connector on the ECU would be a start. [Background info: This computer appears to be an analog op amp based type computer. There are a dozen or so resistors mounted on PCB pins that are the calibration for the 'computer'. I am trying to figure out if I can use this computer with pots to replace the resistors to make my own cheap 'programmable' computer] Cheers, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:43:03 -0400 From: "Dick Byrd" To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment In message <9509282135.AA12775@toy.imonics.com> Mark Sink - Imonics Development writes: > > Way back in F1's turbo days (around the mid-late 80's) when there was a > > rule stating how large a fuel tank you could have and refueling was > > prohibited, the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more > > liters of it into the tanks. The assumption was that the extra amount > > stuffed in would get used up in the first few laps before it could heat > > back up and expand in the tanks. > > You are the second person to mention this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a > liquid does not expand and contract under changing temps like a gas does. - - - - - - - - Dear Mark: You are wrong. Liquids do expand when heated and contract when cooled. Thats what causes convection currents in oceans and lakes; the water on the top cooled wy the air in the winter sinks to the bottom. The coefficient of expansion for water, from 15-100 degrees centigrade is 0.00037 per degree C. One cubic foot of water raised from 15 to 100 degrees grows by 52 cubic inches in volume. However, water has the very unusual quality of contracting in the range from 0-4 degrees C. Water is most dense at 4 degrees C. Dick Stuff from Dick Byrd byrd@mnsinc.com Stuff from Dick Byrd byrd@mnsinc.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:50:47 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: Turbo Timers (HKS/GReddy) Since it was the subject du jour, I thought I'd write about the Greddy and HKS turbo timers... Greddy Turbo Timer (from their catalog): ...is a turbo protection device which allows the engine to continue to idle after the ignition has been shut off. This allows the necessary amount of cool-down time needed to ensure reliable long-term operation. Two different idle times can be preset for user convenience. The unit also features a stopwatch accurate to 1/100th of a second. Part Number: 375000 List: $125.45 CAP: $112.91 Harnesses: List for $10.90 to $16.36 (CAP will discount these a bit too.) HKS Turbo Timer IV (from their catalog): ...is designed to extend turbocharger life in turbocharged vehicles by allowing the engine to idle for a pre-set time after the ignition key has been turned OFF and removed from the key cylinder. This permits the engine oil to circulate through the turbocharger housing which draws heat out of the bearings and impeller shaft to bring the temperatures down to a safe level before the engine is shut down. Features: 15 pre-set times, from 0 to 9.99 minutes. An LED hour display to indicate engine running time. Part Number: 4078EC-90000X List: $178.95 CAP: $161.06 Harnesses: List for $28.95 to $37.95 (CAP will discount these as well.) Hope this is helpful. Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:02:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: [;-( This may or may not be interesting, but I just today turned yet another 4KC(E) engine into so much scrap metal. It happened while practicing on gravel roads having a wonderful time, then blamo, and a phone call to AAA. Ironically it was runing at its absoulte best up to that point. I have a tired old 4KC to put in there for the time being, but will be building another Budget-Super-K over the next couple of weeks! \|/ ____ \|/ @~/ ,. \~@ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ Craig xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To: Craig A Terlau Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: your mail Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 14:45:04 +1000 From: Peter Mejak Craig Writes:- what Kind of car is your K series engine in? What engine do you have? I had similar problems with normally aspirated Starlet and header (4K-C) The problem was the worst between 30 and 40 f. Also, high humidity or fog amde it worse. I ended up using the stock 'oven' and routed it roughly into my intake. It just kind of sat on the header pipes, but this helped a lot! You're right, the EFI is much better in all kinds of weather. It's a 1975 KE30 Corolla. I've got a GIF of it if you want a look. I sent a copy to ChrisM for the Web Site ages ago but it hasn't been loaded in yet (hint hint Chris :-). Yeah, the weather thing's a bummer. Everyone I spoke to said the same thing : "we've never heard of that happening.....". Finally found someone who was able to cast me up a one-off water heater (big $$$, especially as I was a student at the time). It routes hot water from the engine into a reservoir under the inlet manifold, thus heating it. Still not perfect though -- carby base is still stone cold after a freeway run at low temperatures. Oh yeah, it's a 5K with 32/36 DGV, H&M Headers. Getting sprayed tomorrow (after sitting at the panel shop for just about 1 yr!). Time to start thinking about the driveline changes again...... STOP PRESS : If anyone's interested, just picked up a copy of "Hot 4's & Performance Cars" here in Aust. It's got a KE30 with a 3T-GTEU in it! First one I've ever seen. Gonna make for some interesting reading. Looks like a fairly easy fit. Peter. ====================================================== Peter Mejak, HP Response Centre, Melbourne, Australia peterm@aus.hp.com ====================================================== xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 22:17:20 PDT From: Dick Byrd > >In message <9509282135.AA12775@toy.imonics.com> Mark Sink - Imonics Development >writes: > >> > Way back in F1's turbo days (around the mid-late 80's) when there was a >> > rule stating how large a fuel tank you could have and refueling was >> > prohibited, the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more >> > liters of it into the tanks. The assumption was that the extra amount >> > stuffed in would get used up in the first few laps before it could heat >> > back up and expand in the tanks. >> >> You are the second person to mention this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a >> liquid does not expand and contract under changing temps like a gas does. >- - - - - - - - >Dear Mark: > You are wrong. Liquids do expand when heated and contract when cooled. >Thats what causes convection currents in oceans and lakes; the water on >the top cooled wy the air in the winter sinks to the bottom. You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts of liquid expansion at work. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:36:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig A Terlau To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: your mail > Oh yeah, it's a 5K with 32/36 DGV, H&M Headers. First of all, I am amaized that you had a piece specially cast to heat the intake manifold. I would have never considdered that an option. The DGV works great with K-series engins, did you use an addapter plate or modify the intake manifold. I prefer modifying the stock intake manifold and not use an addapter plate. I addapted the stock air box to the DGV and used the stock 'oven' and 'oven pipe' Where do you live that you have problems with carb icing? I have had a lot of that here but it seems kind of uncommon. Also it is VERY difficult to troubleshoot and isolate this problem. I usually think it is ten other things first! Most importantly..........Where did you get the 5K??? and how do you like it? I want the full report. In what ways is it different that the 3 or 4K? Does it have hydraulic lifters? Is it noticably more powerfull? ___ (o o) +-----ooO-(_)-Ooo-----+ | Craig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:45:11 -0400 From: "Dick Byrd" To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment > You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. > Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water > then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts > of liquid expansion at work. > > Gary - - - - - - - - Dear Gary: Read carefully what I wrote! Water expands almost linearly as temperature increases from 15-100 degrees C at a rate of .00037 per degree. I also said that it was most dense at 4 degrees C. Water freezes at zero degrees C, and you are correct that it expands when frozen. There is nothing inconsistent here. If I knew how to draw a plot of the expansion for you in SMTP, I'd show it in this message. Dick Stuff from Dick Byrd byrd@mnsinc.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:52:10 -0600 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: mbedford@indiana.edu (Monte Bedford) Subject: gas, liquids (again) Mark Sink writes: A liquid does not expand and contract under changing temps like a gas does. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ***CORRECT*** Not at all the way a gas does. Dick Byrd writes: Liquids do expand when heated and contract when cooled. ***CORRECT*** Just not nearly as much as do gases. + From 15 deg. C (59 deg. F) to 100 deg. C (boiling) ------around 3% expansion for water ------around 30% expansion for a gas (constant pressure) +So, in school, the academic problems usually focus on volume changes for gas. +But, in Formula 1, the (at best) maybe around 1-2% extra fuel in the tank (because it was chilled extensively) might be helpful if the big concern is running out of fuel, so it seems. I could imagine that one concern about warming fuel is the real possibility of vapor-lock. With all the engine heat, it is very easy--maybe too easy--to have warm enough fuel to atomize. And with massive hp engines, extreme heat could also expand the air, robbing the engine of that "cold, dense charge." It makes the most sense to include the air intake in the cooling scheme. My 2 cents. Monte xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 1:07:49 PDT >> You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. >> Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water >> then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts >> of liquid expansion at work. >> >> Gary >- - - - - - - - >Dear Gary: > Read carefully what I wrote! Water expands almost linearly as >temperature increases from 15-100 degrees C at a rate of .00037 per >degree. I also said that it was most dense at 4 degrees C. Water freezes >at zero degrees C, and you are correct that it expands when frozen. There >is nothing inconsistent here. If I knew how to draw a plot of the expansion >for you in SMTP, I'd show it in this message. >Dick > >Stuff from Dick Byrd >byrd@mnsinc.com No need to draw a plot. Sounds like you knew what you were talking about. :) I quickly skim over my messages at times, especially tonight since I took a break working on my starter. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 07:42:42 -0600 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: mbedford@indiana.edu (Monte Bedford) Subject: forming ice Water must expand right before freezing in order for the molecules to align into its "crystal lattice" structure, which is a looser pack (i.e. expanded compared to liquid). Water is unique in this crystalline expansion. Proof: ice floats. Monte xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:41:33 -0400 From: "ROGERS" To: Aric Shen , Subject: Re[2]: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! Subject: Re: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! From: Aric Shen at Internet Date: 9/28/95 2:20 AM > >Interests: Formula Atlantic and Forumla 1. (*WARNING*: As a good friend of the >chief Technical inspector for Formula Atlantic, I may have a small bias for the >4AGE. > >Roger Smith >Gold Disk Inc. >rogers@golddisk.com > >Tech Inspector eh ? I was wondering if maybe you or your friend might be >able to pass on a few tips about building a bullet proof 8000-8500 RPM >turbo, supercharged, or twincharged 4AG ? Also, maybe some suggestions on >cylinder head porting and cam shaft selection.. thanks in advance.. A brief background ... A Technical inspector does more than just examine the engine. Since formula atlantic is considered a proving ground for driver talent, all of the teams have to use a standard spec engine. What most of the teams do is buy their engines from one of several engine builders who in turn build it to the spec set out by the SCCA/TRD. It is my guess that most of the engine builders buy the "Atlantic Spec" parts from TRD mainly because of costs, and concentrate on the porting and reliability of the engine. (There is a big penality to pay if you are caught out of spec !) I suspect most builders use the extrude hone process where you flow a thick "sand like" material throught the head. The one head I saw, had port surfaces almost mirror like smooth on the intake side. Let me emphasize this I COULD NOT SEE THE GRAIN or any defects in the port passages. That in conjunction with a flow bench is the secret. Basically you try to eliminate any "sharp" corners in the intake ports, and to get the ports volumetrically equivalent. Porting for a big valve naturally aspirated head requires a different methodology to a turbo charged one. A good source of info is one the countless english magazines that like to give in depth articles on how to port the 4 cyclinder turbo ford cosworth engine. Car and car conversions has tons of articles on this. Regading building an 8500 RPM engine, the main thing is reliability of the crank shaft and connecting rod strength. The newer 4AGE's (90+) crank and con rods can take 8500 RPM no sweat (mine does) If you have a 4AGZe, then you are safe for 9000. The reason TRD sells a $25xx crank shaft is because the atlantic engines are in the 6000- 9500 rev range continuously. Buying a billet crank if you are not racing on a professional level is a waste of money (IMHO) The ability to rev high and make useful power comes strictly from the head. You have to balance the cams to the porting strategy. Note if you are building a race engine which tends to have a narrow power range, you have to sacrifice low end response for high end response. There's no free lunch! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:20:12 +0800 (WST) From: Travis Morien To: Gary Hong Cc: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: water freezing (was Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment) On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Gary Hong wrote: > You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. > Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water > then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts > of liquid expansion at work. > > Gary > Sorry guys, but I think I'll just break in here. I study physics and chemistry at university. (only 2nd year.. 8( ) Water is a very strange liquid. It expands when it freezes because the water molecules align themselves in a lattice just before freezing. When the molecules have enough energy to move around, they do not form this lattice. The lattice has a lot of empty space in it, the intermolecular forces hold the molecules at this fixed distance. When they have sufficient kinetic energy (that means they are hot), they are not held in this lattice and the molecules can bunch as close as they like. That was the non-tech version. I suggest you check out a good textbook if you want to know more.. Travis Morien MKI MR2 n/a no mods, need help. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: garyh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, phantom@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: water freezing (was Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment) Cc: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 9:58:00 PDT From: Travis Morien >On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Gary Hong wrote: >> You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. >> Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water >> then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts >> of liquid expansion at work. >> >> Gary >> >Sorry guys, but I think I'll just break in here. I study physics and >chemistry at university. (only 2nd year.. 8( ) Actually, nothing Dick or I said was wrong. Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Mark Sink - Imonics Development Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:42:09 -0400 To: mr2-interest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com > > > "the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more liters of it into the tanks." Ok, why stop there? Putting cold fuel in the tank, decreased the temperature of the tank, hence the tank got smaller. Counter productive. They probably cooled the fuel, heated the tank, THEN filled the tank. But now the heated tank starts to heat the fuel, while the cooled fuel starts to cool the tank. The tank is getting smaller, and the fuel is taking up more space. So now we are creating a higher pressure inside the tank, which we know will raise the temperature of a gas, but not the fuel, since fuel is a liquid, and can't be compressed. Although it can take up less space by cooling it. Q. When do you get the most gas into a tank. IN the summer when the tank is bigger, or in the winter when the fuel is colder? :) hehehe mark sink xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:22:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Limited slip differential for 1980 Celica To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Does anyone know where I can get a limited slip differential for my 1980 Celica? Is TRD the only supplier? Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Pictures of Toyota Engines To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" I have a book titled Toyota Twincam that has pictures of various twincam motors, black and white. Includes the 3M, 5M-GEU, 6M-GEU, 7M-GTEU, 9R, 8R-G, 18R-G, 18R-GU, 18R-GEU, 2T-G, 2T-GEU, 3T-GTEU, 4T-GTEU, 4A-GEU, 4A-GZEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-GZEU, 1G-GTEU, and 3S-GTEU. Horsepower/torque plots are included. Also color pictures of many models. The text is in Japanese. I was thinking of scanning the pictures, and then sending them to someone to put on their WWW page. Matti, Would you like to put these pictures on your "Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page" ? Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Re: Pictures of Toyota Engines To: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Zublin Bryan) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:10:37 +0200 (EET) Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) > I have a book titled Toyota Twincam that has pictures of various twincam > motors, black and white. Includes the 3M, 5M-GEU, 6M-GEU, 7M-GTEU, 9R, > 8R-G, 18R-G, 18R-GU, 18R-GEU, 2T-G, 2T-GEU, 3T-GTEU, 4T-GTEU, 4A-GEU, > 4A-GZEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-GZEU, 1G-GTEU, and 3S-GTEU. Horsepower/torque plots are > included. Also color pictures of many models. The text is in Japanese. I > was thinking of scanning the pictures, and then sending them to someone to > put on their WWW page. > > Matti, > Would you like to put these pictures on your "Huge Evergrowing WWW Home > Page" ? Yes! YES! YES! I shall worship the ground you walk on if I can get those scans ;) BTW, What version is the 4T-GTEU? I'm not aware of it ever being available to the general public, just know of the Group B & Group C versions for racing. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Vodicka, Roger" To: "'toyota-mods'" Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 16:54:00 PDT On the subject of expanding/contracting liquids etc... a couple of items have been written about it.... ------------------------- >You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. >Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water >then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts >of liquid expansion at work. > >Gary -------------------------- >Dear Mark: > You are wrong. Liquids do expand when heated and contract when cooled. >Thats what causes convection currents in oceans and lakes; the water on >the top cooled wy the air in the winter sinks to the bottom. > The coefficient of expansion for water, from 15-100 degrees centigrade >is 0.00037 per degree C. One cubic foot of water raised from 15 to 100 >degrees grows by 52 cubic inches in volume. However, water has the very >unusual quality of contracting in the range from 0-4 degrees C. Water is >most >dense at 4 degrees C. >Dick > >Stuff from Dick Byrd >byrd@mnsinc.com ----------------------------- Dick is right in what he says about water. When he talks about water the emphasis is on the words "unusual quality". Water is an exception to the rule when it comes to liquid expansion and compression with temperature. Other liquids may not behave the same way ie: expanding on freezing. Water is great for cooling since it has a high heat capacity. The definition of the energy unit 'calorie' is "the amount of heat required to raise 1c.c of water by 1 K (or celsius)". This is important to remember when adding ethylene glycol coolant to your radiator. Even though adding ethylene glycol raises the boiling point of your radiator water you actually lower the heat capacity of the mixture. Roger Vodicka. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: Pictures of Toyota Engines To: Matti Kalalahti Cc: toyota-mods > BTW, What version is the 4T-GTEU? I'm not aware of it ever being available > to the general public, just know of the Group B & Group C versions for > racing. The picture I have shows it in a production car, not a rally/race car. It shows the twin plugs, turbo plumbing, no intercooler, etc. Definitely rear wheel drive. According to the book, it was available only in 1982. I don't know what model. I would guess it's the same model that had the 3T-GTEU. The 3T-GTEU is listed as being in models with the "1800 GT-T" and "1800 GT-TR" suffix. The 4T-GTEU is listed as being in the models with the "1800 GT-TS" suffix. Here are listed specs: 3T-GTEU 4T-GTEU Displacement 1770 cc 1791 cc Bore 85.0 mm 85.5 mm Stroke 78.0 mm 78.0 mm Comp ratio 7.8:1 7.8:1 Power 160 PS / 6000 rpm for both Torque 21.0 kg-m / 4800 rpm for both Maybe this engine was used in limited production in order to qualify for use in a rally car. I need a Japanese interpreter! I'll scan some pictures soon. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:55:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: Limited slip differential for 1980 Celica To: Matti Kalalahti Cc: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Thanks for the info. Do you know if the IRS was available for 1978 thru 1981 Celicas? Here in the US, they are all solid axle. The body change was in 1982, which in the US still had the solid axle (I think). I believe it wasn't until 1983 that the Celicas got the IRS. The 1979 thru 1981 Supras were also solid axle. The 1982 and up Supras had IRS. I think in Japan the 1978-1981 Celicas were available with limited slip. Do you know if the 1982-1985 IRS is adaptable to my 1980 Celica with a solid axle? Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: Matti Kalalahti To: BZUBLIN Subject: Re: Limited slip differential for 1980 Celica Date: Saturday, September 30, 1995 1:25AM > Does anyone know where I can get a limited slip differential for my 1980 > Celica? Is TRD the only supplier? Yes, TRD is the only one. You might also consider using a Corolla GT rear axle with LSD or the IRS semi-trailing arm rear suspension setups (generally better traction, but more total weight/less unsprung weight, somewhat a matter of taste), in which case at least Celica Supra LSDs and some Japan only -Carina/Corona/Celica LSDs fit. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 21:33:27 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: BOUNCE toyota-mods@cyberauto.com: Admin request Oops! For all of our new (and returning) members, don't forget that you have to avoid the word h*lp (as well as a few others) in the first 5 lines of posts to TM. (Roger's message forwarded below...) Chris >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:47:59 -0400 >To: owner-toyota-mods@cyberauto.com >From: owner-toyota-mods@cyberauto.com >Subject: BOUNCE toyota-mods@cyberauto.com: Admin request > >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 08:26:25 -0400 >From: "ROGERS" >To: Craig A Terlau , toyota-mods >Subject: Re: Mounting 4AGE in starlet > >Well first off, I didn't do the mods myself. However I have since pulled the >engine/gearbox out many times (with much help of course!). > >(1) Engine Mounts had to be made. Nothing that any one who is remotely good at >welding couldn't do. > >(2) A small opening had to be cut in the gearbox housing inside the car as the >4AGE sits further back in the car , and as a result the gear stick is about 7 >or 8 inches further back. (*No cutting to the housing under the hood) > >(3) A new bracket made from "Angled iron" so that the gearbox could be supported >in the back (where the drive shaft leaves the gearbox). > >(3) The drive shaft from the corolla GTS had to be shortened, relatively easy >since these things are hollow. A real perfectionist would have had it rebalanced >etc, however I didn't have this done. > >(4) The complete starlet rear end had to be replaced, because the tiny diff >would not handle the torque of a modified 4AGE. I retained the rear arms (upper >and lower) from the starlet, and had some brackets added to the celica rear >end so as to give a similiar layout to that of the original starlet's. > >I could just as easily, and in fact recommend using an 87 corolla GTS rear end >as It has disk brakes and is easier to get parts for. Note that the wheels will >stick out of the car by about 3 ins on either side. Not a problem for me now as >I have a body kit with widened wheel arches. > >I chose to go the celica route because originally I wanted a "sleeper". As such >originally you couldn't tell there wasn't anything special about my starlet). >=========================================================================== ===== >>__________________________________________________________________________ _____ >>Subject: Re: ME/MINE/MODS. He's back! >>From: Craig A Terlau at Internet >>Date: 9/27/95 4:48 PM > >>Hi Roger, can you tell me what is involved in puting 4A-GE in Starlet. I >>imagine the difficulties would include engine mounts, header and drive >>shaft. Are there things you would do differently after having done one >>of these? > -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Matti Kalalahti Subject: Re: Limited slip differential for 1980 Celica To: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Zublin Bryan) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 03:41:45 +0200 (EET) Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list) > Do you know if the IRS was available for 1978 thru 1981 Celicas? Here in No, it wasn't available at all until 1982. > the US, they are all solid axle. The body change was in 1982, which in the > US still had the solid axle (I think). I believe it wasn't until 1983 that > the Celicas got the IRS. The 1979 thru 1981 Supras were also solid axle. > The 1982 and up Supras had IRS. In Japan, IRS was used in upper range Carina/Celica/Corona among several other 120hp+ models. > I think in Japan the 1978-1981 Celicas were available with limited slip. Dunno, maybe. > Do you know if the 1982-1985 IRS is adaptable to my 1980 Celica with a solid > axle? Yes. It may take slightly more work than with [M/T/R]A60-series, but it has been bolted even to KE30 Corollas. -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 21:41:50 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: your mail > It's a 1975 KE30 Corolla. I've got a GIF of it if you want a look. > I sent a copy to ChrisM for the Web Site ages ago but it hasn't been > loaded in yet (hint hint Chris :-). Ok, it's there now! Sorry for the long wait. Hopefully I'll get a chance to upgrade these and include a preview image, but until then you can just click on the text link to see the picture of Peter's beautiful orange Corolla! -- Christopher P. Myer Cyberspace Automotive Performance www.cyberauto.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 21:47:59 -0400 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer) Subject: Re: Limited slip differential for 1980 Celica >Does anyone know where I can get a limited slip differential for my 1980 >Celica? Is TRD the only supplier? Believe it or not, you'll probably be money ahead to get a Supra rear axle and put it under your Celica. The limited slip diffs are so much cheaper than those for the Celica that you'll pay for the axle, plus you'll get rear disks and a stronger differential to boot. Just something to consider... Chris xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Gary Hong To: phantom@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Subject: Re: water freezing (was Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment) Cc: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 22:16:00 PDT From: Travis Morien > >On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Gary Hong wrote: >> You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing point. >> Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top with water >> then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll ssee resuts >> of liquid expansion at work. >> >> Gary >> >Sorry guys, but I think I'll just break in here. I study physics and >chemistry at university. (only 2nd year.. 8( ) Wait, are we (Dick and I) wrong in what we say? Gary xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:07:13 -0700 To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com From: di88429@goodnet.com (James Collins) Subject: me/mine/mods Name : James Collins Location: Tucson, Arizona Model: 1981 Celica GT Rally DOHC Engine: 2T-GEU Mods: Changed fuel injection to Mikuni carbs Upgraded suspension Trust header and exhaust system TRD cams Email: CollinsJ@ccit.arizona.edu Hi, I don't actually have a car right now so i used my brother's car in japan that I helped him modify. I'm a student at the University of Arizona(sophomore) now and am thinking about getting either an old corolla with a 2T-C or a 3T-C and converting it to a 2T-G (My brother graduates from high school next year and is thinking about bringing his parts with him). If anyone has done this, I would appreciate suggestions. James Collins xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 16:46:33 -0700 To: Gary Hong , garyh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, Subject: Re: water freezing (was Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment) Cc: byrd@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com On Sep 29, 9:58am, Gary Hong wrote: > Subject: Re: water freezing (was Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment) > From: Travis Morien Hi guys, > >On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Gary Hong wrote: > >> You are both wrong :). Liquid explands when it gets to it's freezing > >> point. Try this at home if you like. Fill a jar all the way to the top > >> with water then cap it and throw it in the freezer. In the morning you'll > >> ssee resuts of liquid expansion at work. > >> > >> Gary And when you go beyond 0 deg Celcius, the ice contracts once again since energy is being removed. In theory... It will collapse when it reaches 0 deg K, where all molecular activity cease. As for filling a jar with water... make sure it's plastic. > >Sorry guys, but I think I'll just break in here. I study physics and > >chemistry at university. (only 2nd year.. 8( ) Whoa there Travis, don't want to step on anyone's toes here... you are dealing with a very knowledgable group here. Alot of them being of engineering discipline, so studying Physics and Chemistry was a defintely a part of their education as well. Alot them out there are very diversed and very well read in different fields and we are all gathered here because we have a common bond... namely Toyotas. Let's try to keep it that way could we :^). > Actually, nothing Dick or I said was wrong. > > Gary Nope, I don't think so at all... but I found this string to be very well versed, informative, challenging, and I believe that it brings the best out in this group. Latas, Allan -- ******************************************************************************* Allan Chen A peak disturbs the horizon. The wave builds as it Silicon Graphics Inc. slowly crumbles. A lone man races the crest hoping Mountain View, CA for the moment where wave, board, and rider becomes allanc@sgi.com one... Only a surfer knows the feeling. ******************************************************************************* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: "Allan Chen" Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 16:47:44 -0700 To: Mark Sink - Imonics Development , Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com On Sep 29, 1:42pm, Mark Sink - Imonics Development wrote: > Subject: Re: Cooling fuel/Turbo adjustment Hi Mark, > > > "the teams cooled the fuel so they could stuff a few more liters of it > > > into the tanks." > Ok, why stop there? Putting cold fuel in the tank, decreased the temperature > of the tank, hence the tank got smaller. Counter productive. Nuff dude... this string is getting really really long *hahahahah*. But, both the fuel and the tank both have different expanision coefficients. You are comparing a liquid (namely a petroleum distillate) and a metal (probably aluminum). You will probably spend more time trying to determine the optimal temp and time to cool the tank when you could work around at near room/operating temperature instead. > They probably cooled the fuel, heated the tank, THEN filled the tank. But > now the heated tank starts to heat the fuel, while the cooled fuel starts to > cool the tank. Now we are getting into heat transfer as well :^). > The tank is getting smaller, and the fuel is taking up more space. So now we > are creating a higher pressure inside the tank, which we know will raise the > temperature of a gas, but not the fuel, since fuel is a liquid, and can't be > compressed. Although it can take up less space by cooling it. Hmmm, now where is the variable t, time... we must calculate how long it will take for the heat to bring the fuel to room temp and above, then we could dictate a time limit for the most effectiveness this cooling would take. We could make this a more and more complex problem. But I'll stop here *heheheh*. The most optimal would be to utilize a material that is not dramatically affected by temp... i.e. carbon fiber. The whole idea of needing to cool the tank is now thrown out of the window :^). > Q. When do you get the most gas into a tank. Hmmm, sounds like a math problem *grin*. Now how do you best utilize calculus in this. Find a point in the curve where the derivative is zero, determine the whether the slope is increasing or decreasing to determine if it is a high point or a low point *hahahahah*. How do we plot this now... do we plot a equation of the sum of both curves in relation to time? College, and just when I thought I was out, they dragged me back in (Pacino, Godfather III) :^P. > IN the summer when the tank is bigger, or in the winter when the fuel is > colder? :) hehehe Dooooohhhh!!! Latas, Botoboy -- ******************************************************************************* Allan Chen A peak disturbs the horizon. The wave builds as it Silicon Graphics Inc. slowly crumbles. A lone man races the crest hoping Mountain View, CA for the moment where wave, board, and rider becomes allanc@sgi.com one... Only a surfer knows the feeling. ******************************************************************************* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx