^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^ ^^^
^^^ _______ ^^^
^^^ ,' - _ ^^^
^^^ ________,'__________>>> - _ ^ ^^^
^^^ , ' | ^^^
^^^ ~I~ I~I \ / I~I ~I~ .~. _ I\/I I~I I~\ <~ ^^^
^^^ I I_I | I_I I I~I I I I_I I_/ _> ^^^
^^^ `---\__/----------------\__/----' ^^^
^^^ ^^^
^^^ P O S T I N G S Feb 1996 ^^^
^^^ --------------------------- ^^^
^^^ ^^^
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:49:59 +1100 (EST)
From: Justin Simpson
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: tyre width
this one is for those fonts of facts and figures. Does anyone know the
maximum tyre width toyota put on the RA 23 celica (1977) including
optional mags if there were any.
thanks
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Justen Simpson simpson@lake.canberra.edu.au
CRC for Freshwater Ecology, Uni of Canberra, Australia
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:48:47 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: celicag@magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
Subject: GTS convertables
Hello Everyone,
Does anyone know if 1985 is the only year they made the rear wheel drive
GTS Convertable?. I've seen 6 or 7 over the years and they are all 85's. I
think they were only made one year. 84 would be the only other possibility
beacause 83's had exposed flip up headlights instead of hidden ones like the
84 and 85. 86's were front wheel drive.
Still looking for stock 20R cam specs!. Anyone?.
Chris W Morgan
1979 Celica Sunchaser
1985 Celica GTS Convertable
celicag@magicnet.net
P.S.Anyone ever seen a turbo truck (22rte)for sale used?. Another rare
breed!. $100 finders fee for anyone who leads me to one and the deal flys!.
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 17:59:37 +1100
From: n.briggs@student.canterbury.ac.nz (Neil Briggs)
Subject: me/mine/mods
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
ME: Neil Briggs
LOCATION: Christchurch, New Zealand.
MODEL: 1987 Corolla. I believe it's called the GTS in the states. Here in
New Zealand it is known as a Levin. It has the AE-92 chassis.
ENGINE: 4A-GE. With the T-VIS induction system.
MODS: 2 1/4 Cat back exhaust. K&N air filter
E-MAIL: n.briggs@student.canterbury.ac.nz
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:34:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Flywheel
To: Jack Alford
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
>>(More accurately sheard the heads of the flywheel bolts off)
>
>I'm no engineer or anything, but that doesn't make sense, how is less weight
>going to make the bolts any liklier to shear, seems like it would make it
>less likely to shear ??
Inertia.
The heavier flywheel requires more force to accelerate/decelerate it = less
stress on the bolts from the clutch and smoother operation.
A lighter flywheel is subject to more rapid response from clutch forces and can
therefore create more instantaneous force against the retaining bolts.
Following me?
I'm not saying this will sheer the bolts, just how I conceive the possibility of
it happening.
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:35:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Tires
To: Marlin Bailor ,
On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Marlin Bailor wrote:
>Has anyone heard of the Yokohoma Nexus ultra high performance tire? I saw
>an add for it in Motor Trend last fall, but haven't heard anything else
>about it.
>
From Turbo & Hi-Tech Perf.:
Yokohama Nexus-
Ultra-High Performance
Z-rated
Unidirectional and asymetrical
"responsive handling and precise cornering"
"Aqua Tusks" for uncharacteristic wet weather traction?
More info:
Yokohama Tire Corp.
601 South Acacia Ave.
Fullerton, CA 92631
or phone: (714) 870-3838
>Will a 205/55-14 work on stock (14x5.5) wheels? I've heard you need 14x7 to
>keep the tire tread flat.
If your goal is performance, a 7" rim would be ideal. It would allow some
sidewall overlap, but the tire would deflect less than on a 5.5" under hard
cornering.
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:01:38 +0500
From: supra@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jon Hacker (Supra Account))
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
> >It's hp = torque x rpm/5252
>
> Wait a minute. Wouldn't this mean that the HP and torque curves would
> look just like each other? I know that's not the case in pretty much
> every torque/hp curve comparison that I've seen. Am I missing something
> here?
>
> Chris
The second derivative of the hp curve wrt to torque and rpm is given by
the partial differential equation (warning: this equation may have
errors since its been a long time since I ever took a derivative! :-)
dhp/drpm = k * dtorque/drpm + 1/5252
If the torque curve is flat, the hp curve will be an increasing
straight line. Similarly, if the hp curve is flat the torque curve
will monotonically decrease with rpm.
If at a particular rpm the instantaneous slope of the torque is
decreasing as the rpm increases, the hp can either increase, decrease
or stay the same depending on the magnitude of the rate of change of
the torque wrt to rpm. Similarly if the instantaneous slope of the
torque is increasing the hp rate of change can go either way. Hence,
the two curves can look quite different.
Jon
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From: "Gregory Chan"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:17:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Flywheel discussion
Hi all,
I would like to add my 2 cents on the subject of flywheels.
First of all I would agree that a lighter flywheel helps an engine to
rev faster but the OEM manufacturer made the flywheel heavy on
purpose and that is to smooth out the power strokes. If the flywheel
was light the car would idle like a tractor i.e. rough. Granted there
are many of us on this list who don't mind having a car idling like a
horseride but the general populace don't like that. they would prefer
a smooth car; the smoother the better.
As to the bolts I would have to agree that a lighter flywheel
due to it's lighter weight and therefore greter acceleration would
evert more pressure on the bolts.
gchan@compserv.seneca.on.ca
85 Corolla GTS
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:11:26 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
>It's hp = torque x rpm/5252
Wait a minute. Wouldn't this mean that the HP and torque curves would
look just like each other? I know that's not the case in pretty much
every torque/hp curve comparison that I've seen. Am I missing something
here?
Chris
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:32:14 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: tyre width
>this one is for those fonts of facts and figures. Does anyone know the
>maximum tyre width toyota put on the RA 23 celica (1977) including
>optional mags if there were any.
Celica GT, 76-85, 185/70SR14
Celica ST, 78-85, 175SR14
Same tire front and back for both cars. This info from the Yokohama tire
guide. Your friendly Yokohama dealer has this book--are you crafty
enough to sweet talk a copy from him? He's probably got a whole huge
box of them behind the counter gathering dust!
Chris
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From: Jamie Dennis - Imonics Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:43:28 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
> From toyota-mods-owner@CyberAuto.Com Thu Feb 1 09:14 EST 1996
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:11:26 -0500
> X-Sender: cmyer@cyberauto.com
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
> From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
> Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
> Sender: owner-toyota-mods@CyberAuto.Com
>
> >It's hp = torque x rpm/5252
>
> Wait a minute. Wouldn't this mean that the HP and torque curves would
> look just like each other? I know that's not the case in pretty much
> every torque/hp curve comparison that I've seen. Am I missing something
> here?
>
> Chris
>
According to that formula, the torque and horsepower curves
just cross each other at 5252 rpm.
Picture a flat curve of 200 ft-lbs of torque from 1000 to 6000 rpm:
torque (_), hp (.)
|
| .
200 |__________________________________,_____
| .
| .
|.
-------------------------------------------
rpm 1k 2k 3k 4k 5k 6k
The hp curve is a straight line that passes through
the following coordinates:
(1000, 38), (2000, 76), (3000, 114), (4000, 152), (5000, 190), (5252, 200), (6000, 228)
Not sure if it make much sense this way, and my ascii art sucks...
What is significant about these curves is that peak horsepower
of such a curve can vary by how the torque curve drops off after
peak torque. Peak hp occurs at the point where the slope of the
torque curve drops below (is steeper than) -.03
Hope this helps!
Jamie Dennis
'93 MR2 Turbo
License: /dev/toy
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:32:46 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Marlin Bailor
Subject: Re: Flywheel discussion
> As to the bolts I would have to agree that a lighter flywheel
>due to it's lighter weight and therefore greter acceleration would
>evert more pressure on the bolts.
>
I have to disagree, a lighter flywheel will accelerate faster, but the force
from acceleration would be the same as heavy one accelerating slower.
F=ma , Torque=angular accel. X moment of inertia
The torque from the engine is the same regardless.
Just my thoughts
Marlin
'85 NA
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:38:03 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Marlin Bailor
Subject: Nexus
>>From Turbo & Hi-Tech Perf.:
>Yokohama Nexus-
>Ultra-High Performance
>Z-rated
>Unidirectional and asymetrical
>"responsive handling and precise cornering"
>"Aqua Tusks" for uncharacteristic wet weather traction?
>
>More info:
>
>Yokohama Tire Corp.
>601 South Acacia Ave.
>Fullerton, CA 92631
>
>or phone: (714) 870-3838
>
How does it compare with the AVS? What tread wear? Anybody know if it
comes in 14" sizes?
It is the coolest looking tire I've ever seen.
Thanks
Marlin '85 na
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To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
From: Tony York
Subject: Wind noise
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 10:15:33 PST
I have had a problem with both of my Corolla GT's or GT-S relating to
wind noise.
I think it is due to the flimsy top halves of the doors.
Does anyone have any ideas of a) how to stop the wind noise or
b) how to stiffen up the front doors.
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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From: Gary Hong
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:28:43 PST
From: Christopher Myer
>
>>It's hp = torque x rpm/5252
>
>Wait a minute. Wouldn't this mean that the HP and torque curves would
>look just like each other? I know that's not the case in pretty much
>every torque/hp curve comparison that I've seen. Am I missing something
>here?
>
>Chris
It's a formula for an imperfect machine. :)
Gary
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To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 12:41 CST
From: pharmacy@mailhost.accesscom.net (patrick)
Subject: k&n filter and Dynomaxx ultra flow muffler
Dear Readers,
I am interested in finding out what the actual performance gains are likely
to be with the installation of a K&N filtercharger, RU 1500 and a Dynomaxx
Ultra flow muffler will do for my 86 Corolla GT-S? Also, since its a street
car, I wonder what other mods I can make to inprove performance without
sacrificing driveability? What's the word word on Redline's motor oil,
manual transmision fluids, and injector cleaners?
Did I read about someone seeking information about GT-s brakes? This may
help you:
1985-89 GT-S Sport Coupe/Liftback
System Type, Fr/Rr Power ventilated Disc/disc
Front Diameter 9.11 (231.5)
Rear Diameter 9.09 (231.0)
Swept Area, in sq (cm sq) 293.6 (1894)
Final Differential Ratio 4.30
I doubt that you can swap factory brake parts(rear brakes) between the GT-S
and SR-5 models because the the SR-5 rear brake dissc is 9.0 in in diameter
whereas the Gt-S is 9.09 in in diameter. Good Luck. Information is from spec
sheet toyota Customer relations - fax # 310-618-7814
Thank you
Patrick
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:46:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: RE: GTS convertables (wants turbo truck 22RTE)
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" ,
> Still looking for stock 20R cam specs!. Anyone?.
> P.S.Anyone ever seen a turbo truck (22rte)for sale used?. Another rare
> breed!. $100 finders fee for anyone who leads me to one and the deal
flys!.
Chris,
I live in San Diego, CA and have seen a couple turbo trucks advertised in
the Auto Trader over the years. Also seen a few on the road. Back in 1989
or so I purchased a 22RTE for $300 from a guy that had pulled it out of a
truck in Texas. I have seen them advertised since then for around $1000.
The idiot did not get the efi computer or air flow meter, so it still does
not have efi. It's currently in my 1980 Celica without the turbo and with
dual Weber DCOE carbs. Very slow without the turbo because of low
compression ration (7.5:1). Also the flow of the 22R(TE) head sucks.
PS. I've heard that the turbos (CT-20) do not last very long (maybe 60000
miles). So be very careful if you buy one used. There is a place in LA
that sells an upgrade turbo with lower back pressure for less than what
Toyota charges. I've got an article if you are interested.
PSS. I might have the 20R cam specs buried somewhere. You might check with
someone who does regrinds, they should have this info.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:48:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Turbo truck (was Re: GTS convertables)
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Gary writes:
>I found one but lost it :). The guy wanted $2100 or something like that
for
>an 86 model because it was broken in. I called about it but he told me he
>sold it days ago for a measly $1700!! Arg! Wanted to put one of those in
>my Celica, but according to Chris, it was probably a blessing in disguise
>that I didn't buy it.
Gary,
What's the "blessing in disguise?" Are you referring to the short life of
the CT-20 turbo? I'm interested to hear more.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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From: Gary Hong
To: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Turbo truck (was Re: GTS convertables)
Cc: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 11:16:19 PST
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
>
>Gary writes:
>
>>I found one but lost it :). The guy wanted $2100 or something like that
>for
>>an 86 model because it was broken in. I called about it but he told me he
>>sold it days ago for a measly $1700!! Arg! Wanted to put one of those in
>>my Celica, but according to Chris, it was probably a blessing in disguise
>>that I didn't buy it.
>
>Gary,
>What's the "blessing in disguise?" Are you referring to the short life of
>the CT-20 turbo? I'm interested to hear more.
Bryan,
I believe the cost of the parts was one of the "blessing in disguise" as
well as the problems I may have had installing it in my engine and I'm sure
the CT-20.
Gary
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: Torque Specifications Please!!
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:44:44 -0500 (EST)
Cc: validgh!mr2-digest@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Okay, this discussion of the Torque/Horsepower formula is useless for the
original subject at hand since we don't have the RPM at which these HP
figures occur. Plus the fact that we don't have any Dynoed HP increases
specified anyway except for maybe HKS's (if we trust their figures).
Let's get back to what I am looking for here. I have an '85 MR2 Normally
Aspirated. I am looking to do some modifications to boost the low end power
and the power overall. When I drive the car, sometimes it just doesn't feel
as fast as I want it to be. Now the supercharged MR2 has 140 lb-ft of
torque at 4000 rpm, while my na motor has 97 lb-ft at 4800 rpm. What I want
to know is, if I do a TRD header, HKS exhaust, K&N filtercharger with the
bottom of the air box cut out, a Crane Hi-6 Ignition amp, and later, HKS
256/264 or Chris Myer's 260 Camshafts, HOW CLOSE CAN I EXPECT TO GET TO THE
SUPERCHARGED MR2'S LOW END TORQUE? SINCE THE SC MR2 ACCELERATES FROM 0-60
MPH IN 6.5-7.5 SECONDS, AND MINE STOCK HITS 60 IN ABOUT 8.0-8.5 SECONDS,
WITH THESE MODIFICATIONS, HOW CLOSE CAN I EXPECT TO GET TO THE SC MR2'S
ACCELERATION? If anyone has done these modifications and has then tested
the car on a dyno machine, it would solve everything. I would like to
compare a SC MR2's power curve to the power curve expected on a NA MR2 4AGE
with the modifications I have listed above. The modifications, I expect
will give the 4AGE an approximate HP of 140-145. This pretty much matches
the figure on a stock SC MR2, but we don't have any specs on the torque
figures. The torque figures will truly tell us what we are really getting
and how close we are getting to the 4AGZE's power output.
With 134 HP, a NA MR2 reaches the same weight to HP ratio as a SC
MR2, if you figure a NA MR2 weighs 2400 lbs (I have all the power options)
and a SC MR2 weighs 2600 lbs (curb weights). So under this assumption, we
may only need 134 hp to match the power of an SC MR2. Plus the fact that
the NA MR2 has stronger gearing than the SC MR2 (this is another plus
factor). But with out the torque figures, we don't have all the information
wanted to figure this out.
I am supposing that without any bottom end changes (ultimately the
stroker kit at $4500 installed) the NA MR2 cannot match the low end power of
a supercharged MR2, but I would like to be proven wrong on this if anyone
has experience with these mods. I expect that after these mods are done I
will have about 110-120 lb-ft of torque at around 4000 RPM. But again, this
is just speculation. From discussion, I suppose that since the stock 4AGE
doesn't have a long stroke, that not much more low end torque can be
acheived without the stroker crankshaft. Again, I would like to be proven
wrong about this.
Remember what I stated before, I have learned by discussion and
by observation that TORQUE increases and at what RPM they hit are what will
make the difference in real power.
ANY help on this is greatly appreciated. I look forward to
discussing it with the rest of the group.
Thanks,
Aly, '85 MR2, Red with all options
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:44:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: RE: Torque Specifications Please!!
To: "mr2-interest@validgh.com" ,
Aly writes:
> I am supposing that without any bottom end changes (ultimately the
> stroker kit at $4500 installed) the NA MR2 cannot match the low end power
of
> a supercharged MR2, but I would like to be proven wrong on this if anyone
> has experience with these mods. I expect that after these mods are done I
Sorry, I don't have direct experience, I can only theorize. For a fixed
engine displacement and compression ratio there is a maximum torque value
that can be achieved for a normally aspirated engine. It occurs when the
cylinder is completely filled (100% volumetric efficiency). VE in excess of
100% can be achieved with ram effects or turbo/supercharging. At low rpms,
volumetric efficiency is pretty good, doing engine mods (other than
increased displacement, compression ratio, or turbo) is not going to gain
very much. Put in a low restriction muffler, header, cams, porting, etc.
and if you raise the VE from 90% to 95% at 4000 rpm, you haven't gained a
whole lot at that engine speed.
So trying to get a 4AGE to have the same low end torque as a 4AGZE is a
futile attempt (IMHO). However, if you can increase the volumetric
efficiency at the higher rpms where it starts to drop off, you will increase
the torque at these rpms and will also increase the horsepower. The
modified 4AGE will never feel like a 4AGZE at low rpms, but it will have
more power at the higher rpms and will accelerate faster at these engine
speeds.
To determine if the modified 4AGE will have a lower 0-60 time than the
4AGZE, you need compare gearing and the "area under the power curve."
Again, sorry I don't have any measured data. Try some of the car test
software that lets you put in the stats for the car.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:48:07 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Nexus Tires... - Advan Nexus Tires....
Welps...this is a little late.
In Japan, Yokohama's top performance line is the Advan and the current
"Hot tire" for track and street, is the Advan Nexus tire.
At SEMA, i've got conflicting reports from the Yokohama dealers.
They said it was comming out, but only in certain sizes and limited
use.
Mainly because of the "Advan" gets confused with the "Advantage" tires -boggle-
Anyways... They work, the Japan Spec ones, are the ones they use on like the
Racing 300Z's, they even say Advan Nexus on the tire.
Friend in Japan ran um, and says they worth the money.
Kennichi Tsuchiya runs them on his Skyline GTR, shouldn't you ? >=)
Anyways, they are compared to a RE-71R or any other "Spirited street driving"
type of tire, and they do work well in the rain.
Oh, personally... I don't like the AVS Intermediates... tried um, trashed um.
The AVS didn't work as they should, and for the price -boggle-
-Allen T Koji Kam
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:00:24 +1100 (EST)
From: Justin Simpson
To: Christopher Myer
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: tyre width
Thanks Chris, saved my bacon. Toyota Aus only lists 165's which makes the
widest 'legal tyre' in canberra a 215, not too good as i run 225, and
235's, but 185 takes the max up to 245 which means i'm still legal.
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Justen Simpson simpson@lake.canberra.edu.au
CRC for Freshwater Ecology, Uni of Canberra, Australia
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 13:57:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases.
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
>>It's hp = torque x rpm/5252
>Wait a minute. Wouldn't this mean that the HP and torque curves would
>look just like each other? I know that's not the case in pretty much
>every torque/hp curve comparison that I've seen. Am I missing something
>here?
It's the rpm term in the equation. With constant torque across the rpm
range (ideal engine), the hp will be a straight line starting at 0 rpm. In
a real engine, the hp drops off at some high rpm because the torque is
falling faster than the rpm is increasing.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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From: Tony Lanterman
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:43:43 -0800
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: GTS convertables
Yes they were a an '85 only thing. They're rare partly because
they were expensive for the time at ~$15,000. For comparison
my parents bought a new Jeep Cherokee that same year for $10,000
_including_ financing.
I'm still searching for mine,
Woodsprite
**********************************************************************
* Without ice cream * 1983 Celica ST * Joe Woodsprite *
* there would be * * Unsafe at any speed *
* darkness and * I don't drive * *
* chaos. * fast. * lantera@teleport.com *
* -- * I fly low. * *
* Don Kardong * * dod #1456 *
* * 72 Honda CB350 * Where's Julie? *
**********************************************************************
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: Re: Torque Specifications Please!!
To: BZUBLIN@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Zublin, Bryan)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:37:45 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
>
> Aly writes:
>
> > I am supposing that without any bottom end changes (ultimately the
> > stroker kit at $4500 installed) the NA MR2 cannot match the low end power
> of
> > a supercharged MR2, but I would like to be proven wrong on this if anyone
> > has experience with these mods. I expect that after these mods are done I
>
> Sorry, I don't have direct experience, I can only theorize. For a fixed
> engine displacement and compression ratio there is a maximum torque value
> that can be achieved for a normally aspirated engine. It occurs when the
> cylinder is completely filled (100% volumetric efficiency). VE in excess of
> 100% can be achieved with ram effects or turbo/supercharging. At low rpms,
> volumetric efficiency is pretty good, doing engine mods (other than
> increased displacement, compression ratio, or turbo) is not going to gain
> very much. Put in a low restriction muffler, header, cams, porting, etc.
> and if you raise the VE from 90% to 95% at 4000 rpm, you haven't gained a
> whole lot at that engine speed.
>
> So trying to get a 4AGE to have the same low end torque as a 4AGZE is a
> futile attempt (IMHO). However, if you can increase the volumetric
> efficiency at the higher rpms where it starts to drop off, you will increase
> the torque at these rpms and will also increase the horsepower. The
> modified 4AGE will never feel like a 4AGZE at low rpms, but it will have
> more power at the higher rpms and will accelerate faster at these engine
> speeds.
>
> To determine if the modified 4AGE will have a lower 0-60 time than the
> 4AGZE, you need compare gearing and the "area under the power curve."
> Again, sorry I don't have any measured data. Try some of the car test
> software that lets you put in the stats for the car.
>
> Bryan Zublin
> bzublin@gi.com
>
Dear Bryan,
Once again, your responses to my questions were excellent and very
helpful. I will admit, I like the power curve of the 4AGE in that it is
very free revving and that the power doesn't fade until around 7000 rpm. I
like what you are saying about the fact that you can't match the 4AGZE's low
end, but that you can surpass its higher RPM output with these mods on a
4AGE. I suppose ultimately that this will mean a faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile
time than that of a stock 4AGZE.
One question: I noticed that a lot of articles on the '85 MR2 from
1985 magazines list the car as having a first gear ratio of 3.17. The
February ? '85 issue of Car & Driver lists the first gear ratio as 3.56. If
this is true, would you have any idea how to tell which ratio my car has?
My car is an April '85 model.
Thank you,
Aly, '85 MR2, Red with all options
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:41:40 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: celicag@magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
Subject: Turbotruk Shopping
Hello everyone!
I've done some checking on the availibilty of the turbo pickup. According
to Edmunds its a 2 year production run.
1987 NEW WHOL. RET.
SR5 X-tra cab Turbo pkup $12,488 $3450 $4975
4WD Turbo pkup $11,238 $3775 $5375
1988
SR5 X-tra cab Turbo pkup $11,518 $4425 $5950
So it seems the Turbo Truck is indeed a rare find! That's the reason I am
very interested in buying one. I am not concerned with how long the turbo
will last or the price of parts. I would like to buy one as original as
possible and restore it to showroom condition. Any help in aquiring one is
worth a c note.
Anybody had a A40D auto trans rebuilt or worked on. I think mines about to
go with only 80k on the clock. If you have, how much was the rebuild and
what parts did they replace?. Thanks for any help!
Chris W Morgan
1979 Celica Sunchaser
1985 Celica GTS Convertable
1984 Celica GT
celicag@magicnet.net
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:47:34 +1100
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bilzilla@zeta.org.au (Bill Sherwood)
Subject: Torque and other strange beasts.
Hiya everyone,
As usual the discussion on torque/horsepower is a bit of a
storm in a teacup. A few _general_ rules - Horsepower gives you top speed,
and torque gives you acceleration. Revs give you horspower, cylinder (air)
filling gives you torque. Cam duration gives you revs, cam lift gives you
torque. (_Very_ general rule)
Most importantly, an engine is not aware of any supposed formula's that tell
it what to do. It's just an elegant machine that responds to the laws of
physics that we poor humans are still trying to get a full grasp of. What
works for one engine may not work for another, so there are only a few of
ways to get the numbers you want out of an engine - 1. Join
Cosworth/Renault/BMW/Ferrari/Honda engine developement teams, and learn all
you can, 2. Spend a truckload of bucks blowing engines and swapping parts
getting what you want until you get it right, 3. Ask someone RELIABLE who
has done exactly what you want before, 4. Set less exotic standards, eg,
don't be radical.
With our 'modern' 4AG's, etc, there is a practical limit as to what you can
do. You can get 220+hp, but the low end power will of course suffer. You can
get good low end power, but at the expense of ultimate power. It's very
difficult to get around this problem - Supercharging is a good fix, but has
its own problems. Turbocharging more often makes the problem worse, though
not always. Variable cam timing is a fair band-aid.
Some of you may remember the Lancia Group B rally weapons of the 80's - they
had 2.0L, with a supercharger to give low end power, and at a certain point
a turbo took over to give top end. It worked very well, but the overall
system is a tad complex for everyday use.
Ok, now pay attention - for all you 4AG (and all small, eg, <3 litre engine)
owners - IT'S ONLY BLOODY 1600cc, WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU EXPECT!!!!!! If you
want to blow V-8's away, it can be done - but don't expect a smooth idle,
good fuel economy, and a stump-pulling bottom end. You can get a compromise
(without resorting to boosting the engine), but don't try for it all, cause
you're in for a disapointment. Good torque can be had from the 4AG, but you
must remember - it'll be good torque for a 1600.
Aly Abulkheir wrote in with a few questions regarding this very subject, so
I'll use his questions to give some examples of my version of the truth.
>Now the supercharged MR2 has 140 lb-ft of
>torque at 4000 rpm, while my na motor has 97 lb-ft at 4800 rpm. What I want
>to know is, if I do a TRD header, HKS exhaust, K&N filtercharger with the
>bottom of the air box cut out, a Crane Hi-6 Ignition amp, and later, HKS
>256/264 or Chris Myer's 260 Camshafts, HOW CLOSE CAN I EXPECT TO GET TO THE
>SUPERCHARGED MR2'S LOW END TORQUE? SINCE THE SC MR2 ACCELERATES FROM 0-60
>MPH IN 6.5-7.5 SECONDS, AND MINE STOCK HITS 60 IN ABOUT 8.0-8.5 SECONDS,
>WITH THESE MODIFICATIONS, HOW CLOSE CAN I EXPECT TO GET TO THE SC MR2'S
>ACCELERATION?
>
You can get a naturally aspirated 4AG to perform about the same as a SC 4AG.
When I did my 14.9 sec 1/4 mile, I was running against my friends 4AGZE
powered KE-20. Both cars weigh about the same (930kg + 90kg for the
drivers), and his engine is standard apart from having no intercooler and a
bigger pulley to give more boost (don't know how much more) Using 8500 rpm,
I did 14.92 sec @ 145 kph. My friend Jason used 6000 rpm and did a 14.3 @
147 kph. Another few hundred metres and I reckon I could have reeled him in.
(The 4AGZE has restrictive cams and there is no point in using more than
6000 rpm) I've had a couple of rides in Jason's car, and the bottom end
power is just fantastic - far, far better than mine. The top end power,
however, is not that much different from memory - hence Aly, yes, you can
get a n/a 4Ag to get near the performance of a 4AGZE, but there is no way to
keep a strong bottom end. My 4AG is ok down low, but only has as much as a
standard 4AC single cam and as I've written a few times idles like a hotted
up rotary. There are other combinations of cams, etc, that will give you
good low down grunt, but at the expense of the other end.
> With 134 HP, a NA MR2 reaches the same weight to HP ratio as a SC
>MR2, if you figure a NA MR2 weighs 2400 lbs (I have all the power options)
>and a SC MR2 weighs 2600 lbs (curb weights). So under this assumption, we
>may only need 134 hp to match the power of an SC MR2. Plus the fact that
>the NA MR2 has stronger gearing than the SC MR2 (this is another plus
>factor). But with out the torque figures, we don't have all the information
>wanted to figure this out.
>
Ok, maybe 134 hp _is_ enough. But the 4AGZE will always have more torque and
because of that will always out-accelerate you unless you drive around above
above 4500 rpm all the time. Point taken?
> I am supposing that without any bottom end changes (ultimately the
>stroker kit at $4500 installed) the NA MR2 cannot match the low end power of
>a supercharged MR2, but I would like to be proven wrong on this if anyone
>has experience with these mods.
>
Quite correct, though the stroker crank should help a lot. (Is a
supercharger kit more than $4500?)
>I expect that after these mods are done I
>will have about 110-120 lb-ft of torque at around 4000 RPM.
>
Yep, easily - it you do it right.
>From discussion, I suppose that since the stock 4AGE
>doesn't have a long stroke, that not much more low end torque can be
>acheived without the stroker crankshaft.
>
The stroke is 77mm - 0.8mm longer than a 302 Ford V-8! :) (How about a 3K -
66mm!)
Cop you later,
Billzilla ...... Grrrr.........
P.S. Would a 3SG fit into the MR2? It reckon I could get 240 hp+ without any
trouble at all.
P.P.S. Was reading some other mail on this subject - there was mention of
volumetric efficiency. Any four-valve in a reasonable state of tune should
be up around 100% at certain rpm's. The F1 boys are up to 130% odd, so
that's our target!
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:13:29 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford)
Subject: Re: Turbotruk Shopping
I know someone who has a 22RTE, not sure if he wants to sell it or not,
as a matter of fact, he used to be on this list ... email me and
I'll give you his address ... oh yeah, he says he has the engine but
doesn't have the computer ...
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, AL
> Hello everyone!
> I've done some checking on the availibilty of the turbo pickup. According
>to Edmunds its a 2 year production run.
> 1987 NEW WHOL. RET.
>SR5 X-tra cab Turbo pkup $12,488 $3450 $4975
>4WD Turbo pkup $11,238 $3775 $5375
> 1988
>SR5 X-tra cab Turbo pkup $11,518 $4425 $5950
> So it seems the Turbo Truck is indeed a rare find! That's the reason I am
>very interested in buying one. I am not concerned with how long the turbo
>will last or the price of parts. I would like to buy one as original as
>possible and restore it to showroom condition. Any help in aquiring one is
>worth a c note.
> Anybody had a A40D auto trans rebuilt or worked on. I think mines about to
>go with only 80k on the clock. If you have, how much was the rebuild and
>what parts did they replace?. Thanks for any help!
>
>Chris W Morgan
>1979 Celica Sunchaser
>1985 Celica GTS Convertable
>1984 Celica GT
>celicag@magicnet.net
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:21:42 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name : Dave Aucott
Location: Berkley, Michigan (North of Detroit)
Model : 1986 MR2, Silver
Engine : 4AG-E
Mods : Airbox removed, TRD header, HKS exhaust, KYB dampers, Susp Tech
bars (soon), Cams (soon)
email : golf1par@aol.com (anytime) OR daucott@e-mail.com (daytime)
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:37:08 -0800
Subject: Misfiring cylinder
To: mr2-announce@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Well here it is: my car has developed a misfire in one of the cylinders.
It started out mild and produced a slight stumble at idle and then ran
relatively smoothly with adequate power up until about 7 psi of boost. Then the
engine sputters as the flame is apparently going out in one of the cylinders (1
or 4 - whichever is next to the timing belt).
I have changed out the plugs (one was bad) and checked spark into every
cylinder, but the problem is not electrical. Only now the problem has
intensified. To repeat: the ignition system is fine.
There are no apparent symptoms of any mechanical damage. I.e. no rattling,
knocking, backfiring. A visual inspection through the spark plug hole showed
nothing amiss.
Is this a fuel injection problem? The temperature around here has been in the
20s for several days, but even with the engine warmed up the problem persists.
The car has become undriveable, and the shop can't even check it out until
monday afternoon.
Does this sound like an injector failure? If so, is it as much of a pain in the
butt to replace as it appears to be?
Any help, comments, or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Kip Anderson
91 MR2 Turbo
kca@interserv.com
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:49:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Flywheel discussion
To: Marlin Bailor ,
On Thu, 01 Feb 1996, Marlin Bailor wrote:
>
>> As to the bolts I would have to agree that a lighter flywheel
>>due to it's lighter weight and therefore greter acceleration would
>>evert more pressure on the bolts.
>>
>I have to disagree, a lighter flywheel will accelerate faster, but the force
>from acceleration would be the same as heavy one accelerating slower.
>F=ma , Torque=angular accel. X moment of inertia
>The torque from the engine is the same regardless.
> Just my thoughts
But drop the clutch hard and the flywheel speed is changed much more quickly
while the torque of the engine continues to try to accelerate it. Something has
to absorb/fight this torque -> enter the flywheel bolts.
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
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From: Andrew M J Pike
To: "'Toyota Mod Mail List'"
Subject: RE: Flywheel discussion
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:35:46 -0500
> As to the bolts I would have to agree that a lighter flywheel
>due to it's lighter weight and therefore greter acceleration would
>evert more pressure on the bolts.
>
>I have to disagree, a lighter flywheel will accelerate faster, but the
force
>from acceleration would be the same as heavy one accelerating slower.
>F=ma , Torque=angular accel. X moment of inertia
>The torque from the engine is the same regardless.
> Just my thoughts
I agree but would love to hear from someone else who could prove otherwise.
The main point to a lighter flywheel is to reduce the moment of inertia and
therefore increase the angular acceleration. However between the two
flywheels the loading on the bolts will occur at different rates, with the
lighter flywheel the load placed on them will occur very fast whereas it
will occur more slowly with the heavier wheel. The increase in the speed
the load is applied would increase the stress/strain of the bolt which may
cause it to fracture, even though the force is the same.
The main reason that manufactures use a heavier flywheel is to allow the
driver to engage the clutch without judder more easily and the engine less
likely to stall during the clutch pick-up.
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:03:10 +1100
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bilzilla@zeta.org.au (Bill Sherwood)
Subject: RE: The (Final!) flywheel discussion.
Hiya all,
Being as polite as I possibly can - FOR GOD'S SAKE WHAT'S THE
PROBLEM!!!!! Are you building an engine to rev or to break?? It's very
simple - for racing you only need enough flywheel to hang the clutch & ring
gear off, and for road use enough flywheel to smooth the idle. For road use
the original standard bolts are fine, though if you have any doubts about
the bolts, spend a few bucks (maybe a total of $20 or so) and some brand new
ones. For racing or high performance use 'Unbrako' or 'ARP' or some such animal.
That was fairly painless, wasn't it?
Billzila..... Grrrrrrrrrr..........
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 10:48:58 -0800
From: leslie@cadence.com (Leslie C. Fong)
To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: coolant basics, water wetter
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
alan auerbach F (aauerbac@mach1.wlu.ca) writes:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Christopher Jensen wrote:
> >
> > Water wetter is a product which improves the thermal conductivity of the
> > 'water' in your radiator. I use it since it supposedly will lower the head
> > temp slightly. Anything I can do to prevent the head gasket from going. I
> > think it's at its max running at 15psi. So you try and do whatever you can
> > to lower the temp even a few degrees.
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to leave the rad cap loose, so as to not pressurize
> the cooling system? Isn't the purpose of pressurization to let the rad
> get hotter? Al.
This is all based on Physics, which for me is fuzzier by the day...
The transfer of heat out of the engine, or for that matter any system,
is (in part) determined by the delta in the temperatures...
If you reduce coolant pressure, you reduce the maximum temperature the
system can be run at without boiling away; results are heat transfer
thru the radiator will be less and the temperature inside the engine
(where it counts alot) will be higher! Higher coolant to air
temperature differences == greater heat flow to the air.
BTW, pressure alone doesn't affect the heat flow (in simplistic
theory; fluid pressure can have a significant positive effect on
even coolant distribution through the passageways!)
Water "wetter" must work by increasing the thermal conductivity
property of the coolant mix. This causes the coolant to draw heat
faster from the engine, given similar temperature diffs. So the engine
metal temperatures are lower given the same coolant operating
temperature. This is especially useful when engine temperatures
want to rise from the stress of turbo-boost/WOT/RPMs.
On the other side, the radiator will become more effective too,
although you have to consider the limitations of the air flow.
It's been claimed that ethylene glycol (antifreeze) coolant mix has
actually worse conductivity than plain H2O. It's used all the
time though because of its other properties (lubrication/anti-boil/
anti-freeze/anti-corrosion?). Hence we have coolant "wetter".
The actual temperature of the engine coolant should be controlled by
the thermostat, assuming no other limiting factor has been reached,
such as lack of cooling air, or evaporization.
I apologize for my lack of using the correct scientific terms,
symbols, and eqns (and gross errors), but it's been a while
since Physics 101...
In short, if you run pressureless, you (1) loose coolant, and (2)
have hotter engine (internal) temperatures. This is confirmed
via direct experience with a defective cap. Which do you want
hotter, the engine or the radiator?
The last time I wanted to try some of this water weter stuff,
my local retailer was sold-out. Any downsides to it besides cost?
Leslie
'87 Supra turbo, targa, 5sp, HKS EAC-T (TEMS), leather, ONLY 180K miles!
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: Re: 4AGZE's - How much in Aus.
To: bilzilla@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Bill Sherwood)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:44:33 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Dear Bill,
Regarding your letter about being able to get a 4AGZE for $1100 US
dollars in Australia, is this for a used engine? From a wrecking yard? Or
for a new or rebuilt one? Imported from Japan directly? I would love to
hear more on this and about any of this availability for us in the United
States. Oh and one more thing, does the price include the 4AGZE ECU
(computer) or does this cost extra and how much extra?
Thanks,
Aly, '85 MR2, Red with all options
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
PS, If the price is this low, I may reconsider putting a 4AGZE in my '85
even though I much prefer the "simplicity" of a normally aspirated motor.
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Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 14:56:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Re: Torque Specifications Please!!
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
> One question: I noticed that a lot of articles on the '85 MR2 from
> 1985 magazines list the car as having a first gear ratio of 3.17. The
> February ? '85 issue of Car & Driver lists the first gear ratio as 3.56.
If
> this is true, would you have any idea how to tell which ratio my car has?
> My car is an April '85 model.
Aly,
Some Toyota's list the final ratio on the label in the engine compartment
(my 1980 Celica does). The newer MR2s have codes that indicate (among other
things) whether the car has limited slip or not. Try posting to the MR2
list, someone there probably has the answer. I guess you could always lift
one rear wheel and turn the engine with the transmission in first gear and
do the measurement. This will give you the overall ratio, you'll need to
know the final drive ratio to calculate the transmission ratio. Also, with
one rear wheek fixed, does the other spin twice as fast? Another correction
factor....
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:00:16 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: An idea for kicking around...
I was just wondering if it might be time to break TM up a little bit
somehow. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm sure that there are some 4AG
folks out there that just get bored to death when they see these long
winded posts about 22R pointers. Vice-Versa, I'm sure that the same
sort of thing is true when the 4AG guru's get going. My concern is
that there are a lot of "quiet" folks that are probably hesitant to
jump in with their thoughts and ideas when we have such a huge bunch
of guru's who are always ready to jump in with their $.02 (me being
a guilty party, of course.) I get mail from time to time from folks
I've never seen post on TM that say "I've been lurking..." and then
go on to list all of the wonder modifications that they've done but
have never posted.
Ok, I'm up late, gotta get up at 0400 for Natural Guard, so I can't
expound on this any further. Please give this idea a few good kicks
and let me know what you think. There are a number of ways we could
implement this, using side-groups, digests, etc. Maybe a 20R guru
would want to be a regular member of a TM-20R group, but a digest-only
member of a TM-4AG group. We could keep the TM group for more "general"
info.
(If you don't like this idea, you are responsible for flaming it to
death...)
Chris
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:07:43 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: An Idea kicking around >=)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:00:16 -0500
From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: An idea for kicking around...
Chris...
It might be a good idea, however, there are several
mailing lists out there all Toyota Related.
Such as the Toyota 4x4 list
Toyota MR-2 list
Toyota Supra list
Toyota list
and even the more then famous...its "in"famous Toyota-WOB group >=)
Tis might be a good idea -shrug-
I need more email anyways >=)
Specialization is kewl...
-Allen T Koji Kam
1988 Toyota FX-16
1988 Turbo Supra with T-04 Garret Turbo (if deal goes through)
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:11:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Buhr
Subject: Re: Attention AAron
To: Sevan Davitian
Cc: Toyota Supras Mailing List ,
On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Sevan Davitian wrote:
> If the carb on your new car is one of the variable venturi jobs DO NOT
> SPRAY ANY CLEANERS INTO IT AND DO NOT PUT ANYTHING FUNKY IN THE GAS TANK
> !!!! exuse the shout, and the space consumption, but Aarons had enough
> trouble, and want to save him extra. The slider on those carbs has a special
> coating which is dissolved by many cleaners, and which once it is gone the
> carb is a good paper weight.
>
> P.S. there was a recall on them for a while !
Hmm... I'm starting to have a bad feeling. The engine was running a
bit rough, so I dumped a bottle of Chevron Techron cleaner in the gas tank,
and now it's running a lot rougher. :( It idles really rough and
sputters at higher rpms. I've been telling myself that it's just
an ignition problem that will go away when I change the plugs, wires,
distributor cap and rotor this weekend, but from the sound of this maybe not.
How do I further determine what the problem is with the rough
running, and if the carb is having problems what's the next step?
*sigh* I think I must have pissed off the Car God in some previous life.
Help.
Aaron B.
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:27:23 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford)
Subject: RE: An Idea kicking around >=)
>
>Such as the Toyota 4x4 list
Where is there a Toyota 4x4 list ??
- jack
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 01:35:56 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Oh... do I need a clutch!
Hello everyone!
I've been reading all the comments on the flywheel bolts, and
it got me thinking about how bad my clutch is getting. It's
a stock 1986 4AG-E clutch with roughly 106K miles and it's
ready for a change!
Here's the deal -- I plan on doing some serious running with
this car and I want SOLID lockup when I launch it. I'll be
autocrossing and generally treating this clutch like hell, and
I will also have the car on the street, though not my daily driver.
I've heard some suggestions from some "experts," but I'll keep
that to myself for now. I'm interested in hearing any comments
you have on metallic vs. ferodo, stock pressure plate vs. some
performance ones (Centerforce, etc.), stock flywheel vs. light,
and anything else you feel applies.
Any recommendations from someone who's done it?
Dave
1986 MR2 -- no airbox, TRD header, HKS pipe, cams (soon)
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 01:35:59 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: An idea for kicking around...
>I was just wondering if it might be time to break TM up a little bit
>somehow.
>
>Maybe a 20R guru would want to be a regular member of a TM-20R
>group, but a digest-only member of a TM-4AG group. We could
>keep the TM group for more "general" info.
I've only been subscribed to the TM list for a few days now, and I've
been "lurking" to get a flavor of the whole deal (guilty as charged!).
Since I expect to have my mailbox pummelled with comments on this
idea I thought I'd get my thoughts in...
I personally enjoy reading the comments people have on other engines.
I'm always trying to learn more about the benefits of different mods,
and I think many comments, although perhaps not specifically written for
the 4AG, are useful in understanding the concepts. General questions
on cams, torque, hp, brakes, gearing, whatever are always helpful and
certainly have a place in TM-4AG, TM-20R, and TM-digest. This brings
me to a peculiar scenario... Suppose I have a comment on torque vs. hp.
Do I post that to TM-4AG? TM-20R? TM-digest?
What I don't want is to get the same note posted in several different areas
that I'm subscribed to, yet I don't want to miss the "good stuff." I get
enough
mail already without having to weed through "repeat" mail.
With that said, I'll defer to the comments of the "old timers" that have had
to endure these "long winded posts" on the 20R... (come on, are they
really that bad?) :):):)
Dave
1986 MR2 -- Look for future comments on my mods...
Golf1par@aol.com
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:40:41 -0800
Subject: Cylinder misfire
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Ok here's the latest on my cylinder miss on boost and at idle:
In hopes and as suggested by others I tried to reset the engine computer by
disconnecting power. Supposedly this will work if it is a problem with the fuel
mapping. No dice.
Next I tried a bottle of octane booster with injector cleaner plus a bottle of
straight injector cleaner in the same tank of gas. 35 miles later - no
improvement whatsoever.
Contrary to what I reported earlier the cutout does not occur at 7psi of boost
in the manifold. This is the pressure at the turbo. Instead I noticed tonight
that it cuts out as soon as the factory gauge indicates boost in the manifold.
I.e. if I'm not running a vaccum, I'm getting the miss.
I'm still leaning toward the injector failure theory, but I don't know of a way
to check the operation of the injector without removing it. Supposedly the
injector will show a resistance of 2-4 ohms when it is good, but this doesn't
necessarily mean that it works correctly. I measured mine at 3.4 ohms. The
signal from the EFI is apparently constant, but the engine wasn't stumbling at
idle after I checked this.
I did find a hose off of a VSV, but replacing it made no difference.
I guess unless anyone has any better ideas, it's time to get some error codes.
Thanks again to those who responded.
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: An idea for kicking or something
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:51:07 -0500 (EST)
I agree with Dave. I like this toyota-mods list being about all of our
different engines and models. If I only liked MR2's, I'd be limiting
myself. I agree that even though someone may be talking about another
engine, you can still apply the idea to your engine and car. This has
happened many times to me. And besides, we discuss all of the cars I'd love
to own if I had the money and the money to pay for the insurance. These
include my '85 MR2, an '89 MR2 SuperCharged, an '86 Celica GTS, an '89 Supra
Turbo, a black '85 4x4 Xtra Cab pickup with a nice roll bar please, a
'91 MR2 Turbo, a '94 MR2 Turbo, etc....I could go on and on, but I don't
want to bore you guys....The bottom line: Let's leave the list the way it
is. I like it a lot.
Aly, '85 MR2, Red with all options
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: Re: 4AGZE's - How much in Aus.
To: phantom@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Travis Morien)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:00:11 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
> I considered putting a turbo in my 1988 MR2, but ditched the idea when I
> realised that the market price of an MR2 SC is about the same as a MR2
> NA, at least in Perth. One day I will just sell my NA and get an SC for
> not very much more money. See if you can find an SC in a car dealership,
> for a few hundred bucks he might just swap the thing.
>
> Of course if you have already upgraded your NA with all sorts of
> aftermarket goodies, you might not want to do this, but this is just what
> I have been thinking.
>
> I have decided not to modify my NA for just this reason, I am waiting for
> a good clean SC to come along so I can trade up, of course I have
> considered getting a supra or GT4 instead, but I am still deciding.
>
> Cheers,
> Travis.
Dear Travis,
I agree that this would be a logical step to take. But the reason I
would not do it is because I prefer the rest of the '85 MR2 compared to an
'88-'89. I prefer the body color keyed interior (my black and red seats),
the door panels are easier to work with for a nice sound system, the
automatic climate control system (not available on ANY MR2 after '85), and a
few other things as well. I may buy an '89 SC MR2 someday, but I would not
want to give up my '85 for it. Besides, the 4AGE is simpler without all the
supercharger hardware (even though the under hood appearance of a SC MR2 is
simply beautiful). Thanks for the ideas,
Aly, '85 MR2, red with all options
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
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From: Gary Hong
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 96 3:41:40 PST
How about grouping the 2xR[ET] (ie: 20R, 22R, 22RE, 22RET) together?
Also, I wouldn't mind a 2xR[ET] and the M engines (ie: 5M, 7M ).
Gary
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:31:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Buhr
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
To: Toyota Modifications Mailing List
On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Christopher Myer wrote:
> I was just wondering if it might be time to break TM up a little bit
> somehow. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm sure that there are some 4AG
> folks out there that just get bored to death when they see these long
> winded posts about 22R pointers. Vice-Versa, I'm sure that the same
I like reading about cars and engines that I don't have. Quite often
information about other engines will give me a better understanding about
engines in general. I would suggest that if people really don't like
reading about cars/engines that don't apply to them, we should adopt a
convention of putting the car/engine in the subject line, such as
"[7MGTE] Running lean?" or "[Supra] Strut tower braces". That way
folks that aren't interested can just delete the message without having
to read it to see if it applies to them.
Aaron B.
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:35:49 -0800
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
To: Golf1par@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
>What I don't want is to get the same note posted in several different areas
>that I'm subscribed to, yet I don't want to miss the "good stuff." I get
>enough
>mail already without having to weed through "repeat" mail.
>
>With that said, I'll defer to the comments of the "old timers" that have had
>to endure these "long winded posts" on the 20R... (come on, are they
>really that bad?) :):):)
I honestly don't think there is a need for multiple lists. Whenever I see 20R,
22R, or 4AG something or other in the subject line I just hit the delete key.
Kip Anderson
91 MR2 Turbo, 3s-GTE equipped
kca@interserv.com
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 96 10:51:21 PST
From: geoff@softy.softwords.bc.ca (Geoff Seeley)
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
I agree with Aaron, I like to read about other modifications to different
engines and cars. I've picked up quite a bit of information from this as
well... I also like Aarons suggestion about the subject lines (even though I
read and archive everything anyway :-) as it makes scanning and searching
though your mail folder for the info you want to read NOW.
I vote for leaving the list as is.
Geoff
'91 MR2t, 163,300km
http://mr2.com/
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:41:19 -0500
From: mdowe@wchat.on.ca
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Torque, ps.
>P.S. Would a 3SG fit into the MR2? It reckon I could get 240 hp+ without any
trouble at all.
I assume you mean a first generation MR2. I suspect that it could be done,
as I have seen a picture of an AE101 with a 3SG in it. The car was in a TRD
Japan brochure, and apparently used only ' off the shelf' parts for the
installation.The reasoning here is the similarities between the engine bays
in the two cars.
The only question I have is regarding parts availability for the 3SG.
Pistons are easy to come by, but cams and springs are difficult to find. Are
you aware of any suppliers, or anyone who has built up one of these motors?
I have blocks and heads avaliable, so this makes it a desirable project.
Mike Dowe
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:53:42 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: celicag@magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
>To: halfbreed
>From: celicag@mailhost.magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
>Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
>
>>To: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
>>From: celicag@mailhost.magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
>>Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
>>
>>>I was just wondering if it might be time to break TM up a little bit
>>>somehow. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm sure that there are some 4AG
>>>folks out there that just get bored to death when they see these long
>>>winded posts about 22R pointers. Vice-Versa, I'm sure that the same
>>>sort of thing is true when the 4AG guru's get going. My concern is
>>>that there are a lot of "quiet" folks that are probably hesitant to
>>>jump in with their thoughts and ideas when we have such a huge bunch
>>>of guru's who are always ready to jump in with their $.02 (me being
>>>a guilty party, of course.) I get mail from time to time from folks
>>>I've never seen post on TM that say "I've been lurking..." and then
>>>go on to list all of the wonder modifications that they've done but
>>>have never posted.
>>>
>>>Ok, I'm up late, gotta get up at 0400 for Natural Guard, so I can't
>>>expound on this any further. Please give this idea a few good kicks
>>>and let me know what you think. There are a number of ways we could
>>>implement this, using side-groups, digests, etc. Maybe a 20R guru
>>>would want to be a regular member of a TM-20R group, but a digest-only
>>>member of a TM-4AG group. We could keep the TM group for more "general"
>>>info.
>>>
>>>(If you don't like this idea, you are responsible for flaming it to
>>>death...)
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>> As far as I'm concerned I'll be more than happy to spark the blow torch
on this idea!.
>> I've been on this list since the beginning of december and have yet to
hear from any 20R guru's. Maybe this isnt long enough. I've looked through
all the archived posts and dont remember seeing much about the R series motors.
>> Let's take a look at the title of this list: Toyota-mods. TOYOTA to me
means ALL Toyotas!. My loyalty lies with the name Toyota and all vehicles
produced by that company. I dont want to limit myself to a particular make
or model. I want to hear about ALL motor types, ALL models, and ALL
modifications to them!.
>> Some people post, some dont. I chalk it up to different personalities.
Some are introverts (no posts), some are extroverts (always post), my wife
calls me a pervert, but thats a different mailing list. The point is you are
offered the whole ball of wax here, take what you want and leave the rest.
Get familiar with your DELETE key if you are not interested it really does
work!. If you want to limit your technical knowledge of other motors and
models feel free, I dont!.
>> That's my dollars worth, thanks for your time!
>>
>>Chris W Morgan
>>1979 Celica Sunchaser (possibly the first factory convertable)
>>1984 Celica GT
>>1985 Celica GTS Convertable
>>celicag@magicnet.net
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From: ARacer@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:21:00 -0500
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
To: "'toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com'"
Subject: '91 Cressida
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:04:25 -0600
This is from off of http://cyberauto.com/toyota-mode/engines.txt:
Cressida 79 4M
Cressida 80 4M-E
Cressida 81-82 5M-E
Cressida 83-86 5M-GE
does anyone know what the Cressida's beyond that have? (yes, I
could just wait til I got home and look under the hood, but I'm
impatient!) I am looking for specs on this engine, I remember
the dealer saying "It's the same engine they use in supras" but
I know it's not a 5M engine in the '91, and I really don't think
it's a 7M either.
cartest lists the '89 Cressida as having:
Disp: 2954 cc. Loc:FRONT Type:NORM
Horsepower: 190 bhp @ 5600 rpm
Torque: 185 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
Comp Ratio: 9.2:1 Redline: 6500 rpm
Transmission: 4 speed AUTOMATIC
Gear ratios 1st: 2.80:1 4th: 0.71:1
2nd: 1.53:1 5th: :1
3rd: 1.00:1 6th: :1
Final drive ratio: 3.91:1
Driving wheels: REAR
but the '91 is definitly a 4sp auto with OD (I could call this
a 5sp auto, but that's not exactly accurate)
Anyone have any more detailed specs on the '91 Cressida?
- Mike
--
Michael Kronvold, Network Administrator, Addison Machine Engineering
(708) 543-9191 424 Interstate Road Addison, Illinois 60101 USA
Toyota Supra Turbo, anything else is just transportation.
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From: Michael Kronvold
To: "'supras@vicor.com'" ,
Subject: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:54:44 -0600
My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
Something like what you would get if you were going to school in
this field. (are there any univ's or whatnot that have a major in
something this specific? I have noticed that most schools will
push you through mechanical engineering and give you maybe one
or two classes in IC engines at the most, if you beg)
We are not looking for "Hot Rod Manuals" as that's what he already
knows... now he wants to know why changing the charge temp will
cause fuel to burn a certain way over a lower or higher temp.
Some more "how does it work" info on things like:
exhaust tune length and wave pulses
modifying the shape and size of the squish area (quench band?)
etc etc.
I realize that much of this is typically learned through
experimentation or learned through the experiences of others who
have already done this kinda of experimentation before you. But
there has to be some more formalized education available, whether
it be dedicated schooling at a university or specialty tech.
school, or a "learn at home" program, or maybe just a matter of
finding the right books to read and understand.
My brother was never much for school... barely made if out of
high school. But one day everything changed and he was off to
MMI to become a Harley Technician, and ya know what? he passed.
I got daily calls from him talking about all the things he
learned that day, things like the above (exhaust pulses and
squish area) and he just oozed with excitement. Now that he is
out of school, and working in a Harley performance shop (tho
small), he has a lot of things he wants to play with. But
before he goes off and starts cutting away at his head or
making radical loop-de-loops in his exhaust, he wants to know
why making mods does what it does, and exactly what affects
does it have on, basicly, Everything.
Anyhow, someone out there has to be in this field professionally
and knows many of these things. What I wanna know is how did
you learn it? Where did you learn it? Did everyone learn it
by word of mouth? Working with the pro's? Or is there a path
of formal training he can look forward to? This is kindofa
now or never thing, if I can get him going on this, he might
actually turn out to be an excellent engineer.
- Mike
--
Michael Kronvold, Network Administrator, Addison Machine Engineering
(708) 543-9191 424 Interstate Road Addison, Illinois 60101 USA
Toyota Supra Turbo, anything else is just transportation.
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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:03:14 -0500 (EST)
From: alan auerbach F
Subject: Re: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
To: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: "'supras@vicor.com'" ,
Have your brother contact what Canadians call community colleges
and what the Brits call polytechnics. These are post-secondary
institutions that aren't universities but focus on trade training.
Don't know what they're called in the US, maybe colleges as opposed
to universities.
Incidentally, my squish area used to ooze with excitement too,
some time back.
Al.
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Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 10:12:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: RE: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Michael Kronvold writes:
> My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
There is a two volume set on the internal combustion engine. I don't recall
the title, but it is pretty technical. Check in the Motorbooks
International catalog.
Also, get on the literature mailing list of the Society of Automotive
Engineers. You will get catalogs and fliers on a regular basis. The SAE
also sells the book referred to above.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 14:46:01 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Flywheel
I wish I had never asked that original question about 4ag flywheel weights,not
only didnt I ever find out how heavy the original 4AG unit was I was treated
too bad memory's of University with discussions of angular momemtum. Now guys
I have an honours degree in Physics but I need an imperical 'seat of the pants'
answer here. 1. Is an 11KG 4AG flywheel driveable? Is the standard backing
plate good enough for 155BHP and the HKS flywheel? Do I need to replace the
flywheel and/or the clutch bolts? In the case of the 2TG the answer was,
11KG is too heavy, standard clutch is good to 170, CRANE high tensile bolts
were no stronger than standard and you only broke the bolts when you used them
to often and over torqued them.
Bruce Connelly
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From: ARacer@aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:20:15 -0500
To: kronvold@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
>My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
Mike,
The Society of Automotive Engineers now seems to be known, for some purposes,
as:
SAE International: The Engineering Society for Advancing Mobility Land Sea
Air and Space
400 Commonwealth Drive
Warrendale, PA 15096
They offer their engineering books under this name, anyway.
Telephone given on book order form: 412 776-4970. Fax: 412 776-0790.
'Hope this helps.
Ed Pitts
Oceanside, Calif.
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From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: '91 Cressida
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 01:05:42 +0200 (EET)
> This is from off of http://cyberauto.com/toyota-mode/engines.txt:
CHRIIIIS! When will you update that one or replace it with a link
to my engines.html!
http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/dataBySubject/engines.html
is the place to check, with 20 times more info.
> Cressida 79 4M
> Cressida 80 4M-E
> Cressida 81-82 5M-E
> Cressida 83-86 5M-GE
>
> does anyone know what the Cressida's beyond that have? (yes, I
> could just wait til I got home and look under the hood, but I'm
> impatient!) I am looking for specs on this engine, I remember
> the dealer saying "It's the same engine they use in supras" but
> I know it's not a 5M engine in the '91, and I really don't think
> it's a 7M either.
uncomplete, but helps some:
79 US 4M
80 US 4M-E
81-82 US 5M-E
82- FI RX60 21R, 2L-T, L
82 JP M-TEU, 1G-EU, 13T-U
83-88 US 5M-GE
86 JP 1G-GTEU, 5M-GEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU, 21R-U, 1S-U, 2L-T, 2L
89-90 US 7M-GE
> cartest lists the '89 Cressida as having:
>
> Disp: 2954 cc. Loc:FRONT Type:NORM
> Horsepower: 190 bhp @ 5600 rpm
> Torque: 185 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
> Comp Ratio: 9.2:1 Redline: 6500 rpm
True, except comp.ratio may be 9.2 (not sure about this, both versions
exist).
> Transmission: 4 speed AUTOMATIC
> Gear ratios 1st: 2.80:1 4th: 0.71:1
> 2nd: 1.53:1 5th: :1
> 3rd: 1.00:1 6th: :1
> Final drive ratio: 3.91:1
> Driving wheels: REAR
>
> but the '91 is definitly a 4sp auto with OD (I could call this
> a 5sp auto, but that's not exactly accurate)
Do 5-spd automatics exist (in Toyotas) ?
Anyway, the above ratios were used in at least eariler 7M-GE
engines.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 18:17:14 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Marlin Bailor
Subject: water wetter
>> > Water wetter is a product which improves the thermal conductivity of the
>> > 'water' in your radiator.
Waterwetter reduces the surface tension of water so that it can better coat
the water jackets in the engine, hence the better cooling. Surface tension
is what gives water a meniscus in a glass. At certian hot spots in
many engines the water/coolant mixture actually boils, (next to the jacket
walls) making very small bubbles that greatly reduce thermal conductivity.
Waterwetter helps keep these bubbles moving, and makes them smaller. I
read this in a Mustang book, heaven forbid!
Marlin
'85 NA
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From: Michael Kronvold
To: "'Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)'" ,
Subject: RE: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:18:37 -0600
>> My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
>There is a two volume set on the internal combustion engine. I don't recall
>the title, but it is pretty technical. Check in the Motorbooks
>International catalog.
sounds great! never heard of it... Where do I get the motorbooks
int'l catalog?
>Also, get on the literature mailing list of the Society of Automotive
>Engineers. You will get catalogs and fliers on a regular basis. The SAE
>also sells the book referred to above.
oh, guess I should have read the whole thing before replying...
How do you get in contact with SAE?
thanks for the lead...
- Mike
--
Michael Kronvold, Network Administrator, Addison Machine Engineering
(708) 543-9191 424 Interstate Road Addison, Illinois 60101 USA
Toyota Supra Turbo, anything else is just transportation.
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From: Michael Kronvold
To: "'ARacer@aol.com'" ,
Subject: RE: Technical Reading on Reciprocating Engine Theory and Design
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:21:44 -0600
>>My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
>The Society of Automotive Engineers now seems to be known, for some purposes, as:
okay, lesson number 2 for today is, read ALL your new mail THEN reply...
- Mike
--
Michael Kronvold, Network Administrator, Addison Machine Engineering
(708) 543-9191 424 Interstate Road Addison, Illinois 60101 USA
Toyota Supra Turbo, anything else is just transportation.
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From: Tony Lanterman
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 16:58:28 -0800
To: ambuhr@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: An idea for kicking around...
> I would suggest that if people really don't like
>reading about cars/engines that don't apply to them, we should adopt a
>convention of putting the car/engine in the subject line, such as
>"[7MGTE] Running lean?" or "[Supra] Strut tower braces".
>
>Aaron B.
Great idea. I've enjoyed learning the bits about cars I don't
own. This gives the option of focusing on what you "need" to
know on those days when you're short on time, and saving the
rest for later.
Woodsprite
**********************************************************************
* Without ice cream * 1983 Celica ST * Joe Woodsprite *
* there would be * * Unsafe at any speed *
* darkness and * I don't drive * *
* chaos. * fast. * lantera@teleport.com *
* -- * I fly low. * *
* Don Kardong * * dod #1456 *
* * 72 Honda CB350 * Where's Julie? *
**********************************************************************
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From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 11:29:19 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Flywheel
To the list,
Roger Smith's last note to me was very informative but highlighted a difference
between ALL of my engines and some of you guys in the US. It appears you guys
dont use solid plate metalic clutchs.....why? The very first thing I did when
I put in my 4AG was to put a solid metalic clutch in it. It costs so little and
pays for itself as you just resurface them. There is NO clutch shudder, no slip
and no undesirable traits. You just give the rebuilder an old Toyota centre and
$90 Aus and two days later it is done. Therefore I cant see why HKS would not
recommend this for the road.
Bruce Connelly
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From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 96 14:50:30 -0600
Subject: me/mine/mods
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Name : Brian Wiencek
Location : Kansas City, MO
Model : 1984 4wd. Xtra cab Pickup - sr5 - Solid Axle!
Engine : 22r (Early model- pre '85)
Mods : Downey Header & Mid-range Cam, NWOR distributor re-cuve kit, Soon to
have webber carb, accel 3000+ Ignition system. Truck is running 5" suspension
lift, 35" dunlop Radial rovers, 5.29 gears, stainless brake lines, Polyurathane
bushings all-around, & a detroit locker in the rear.
email : bwiencek@kcnet.com
* anyone used the trik products or marlin crawler transfer case gearsets???
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:46:52 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: me/mine/mods
>
>* anyone used the trik products or marlin crawler transfer case gearsets???
TRIK went out of business. Marlin just came out with new gearsets for
that replace the current gearset for a much lower gear range without
having to lenghthen the front drive shaft and shorten the rear shaft ...
He still sells the Dual transfer case kit and in fact in his truck he
has the dual t-cases with twin sticks and has the low gears in BOTH
t-cases for a final drive of 400:1 if he wants it ... it'd be nice to have
20 forward gears ... Folks in his club say, when he's in LOW, LOW, LOW gear,
you can't even tell that the truck is moving ... how cool would that
be !!
To build the greatest truck all you have to have is $$$$$$$$$ ......
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, AL
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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 19:41:36 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Marlin Bailor
Subject: MK1 wheels
Does anybody have a clean set of stock mk1 alloy wheels they want to sell
for a reasonable price? I live in central Pennsylvania, the closer the better.
Thanks,
Marlin
'85 NA
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From: "Gregory Chan"
To: kca@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:34:41 EDT
Subject: Re: Cylinder misfire
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Hi Kip,
If you have checked everything else and everything is OK,
I would suggest running a compression check as I once had a Nissan
200SX Turbo blow the head joint on me with symptoms similar to
what you have described.
gchan@compserv.senecac.on.ca
85 Corolla GTS
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:06:40 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford)
Subject: (22r) A/C at idle ?
Just seeing someone post about an A/C problem reminded me of one
of my own. When my engine is warm and the A/C is on, the engine
rev's up and down, up and down, someone mentioned before if the
compressor was cutting on and off, I've tried to tell, but with
the engine revving up and down, I can't hear anything ...
I've looked through my factory repair manuals and aftermarket
repair manuals for any mention of what controls this and
have found nothing. I'd apprecite anyone who even has the
tiniest(sp?) idea of what my problem might be speaking up
before I end up getting reamed at the Toyota place...
Oh yeah, I have a factory carbed 22R ...
Thanks
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:09:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Hilliard
To: Toyota List
Cc: Toyota Mods
Subject: Why did they go and do that?
Hey folks,
I was changing my battery cables on my '77 2T-C Corolla
today because they were cruddy on the battery side, have been cleaned
4 million times, and just needed replacing. I looked down at the
starter side to yank that end off after I did the battery end and "oh my
gosh!", Why in 'da heck did they have to put the starter in there so
dang snug with everything else? I couldn't see the starter leads or even
get my hand on them. I ended up having to take off the exhaust manifold
to get to it. That sucked!
All was not lost though, I did find a 10mm craftsman socket and
a 1/4" extension lost by the previous owner down amongst there. :)
Oh well.......
****************************************************************
* |\/\/\/| ___________________
* | | / \
* | | ____________ / Catch this airhead \____
* | (0)(0) / \ / at \
* C _) / \/ cxh6989@jackson.freenet.org |
* | ,___| < AYE CARUMBA!!! \ /
* | / \ / \ "I didn't do it, /
* /====\ \____________/ \ Nobody saw me, ------------
*/ \ \ You can't prove a thing!!! /
***************************************\____________________________/
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:10:43 +0500
From: supra@patagonia.bellcore.com (Jon Hacker (Supra Account))
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: (22r) A/C at idle ?
> Just seeing someone post about an A/C problem reminded me of one
> of my own. When my engine is warm and the A/C is on, the engine
> rev's up and down, up and down, someone mentioned before if the
> compressor was cutting on and off, I've tried to tell, but with
> the engine revving up and down, I can't hear anything ...
>
> I've looked through my factory repair manuals and aftermarket
> repair manuals for any mention of what controls this and
> have found nothing. I'd apprecite anyone who even has the
> tiniest(sp?) idea of what my problem might be speaking up
> before I end up getting reamed at the Toyota place...
If you look at the A/C compressor pulley you can tell if the mag clutch
is engaged or not. WHen it is engaged the entire pulley and hub
rotates. When it is disengaged the pulley will free wheel on the
stationary hub. Just point a light down there when its running and you
will be able to tell if the compressor clutch is cycling on and off.
Jon
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:15:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Which handles best?
To: n.briggs@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Neil Briggs),
On Wed, 07 Feb 1996, n.briggs@student.canterbury.ac.nz (Neil Briggs) wrote:
>Does anyone have any opinions which should handle best out of say, a
>sedan/coupe design or a shorter more compact hatchback. An example of this
>might be between the corolla GTS coupe and the FX-16 hatch, or any two cars
>with the same model chassis/engine combination. Any opinions?
Ideally for auto-x and high performance handling you want to have a car with as
much weight as possible between the wheels, not outside them. The primary
reasons for this:
1. Polar Moment of Inertia - A more tightly packed center of mass has a low
polar moment of inertia. This means that it requires less force to rotate the
car into and out of a turn since a greater angular momentum can be achieved with
less energy input. A long car is great for dirt tracking because the high polar
moment of inertia makes the car more stable and slow to pivot.
With a longer car it is also better to have as little overhang on the ends as
possible (hence the trend toward "cab forward" designs). The reason for this is
momentum induced oversteer. E.g. a car with lots of rear overhang will tend to
understeer going into a corner, then oversteer on exit because of the momentum
of the rear of the car toward the outside of the curve.
The low polar moment of inertia of MR2s due to the mid-engine design is part of
what makes them such able handlers.
If quick turn-in and exit cornering is your goal, think short.
Kip Anderson
91 MR2 Turbo
kca@interserv.com
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Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 16:50:37 +1100
From: n.briggs@student.canterbury.ac.nz (Neil Briggs)
Subject: Which handles best?
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Does anyone have any opinions which should handle best out of say, a
sedan/coupe design or a shorter more compact hatchback. An example of this
might be between the corolla GTS coupe and the FX-16 hatch, or any two cars
with the same model chassis/engine combination. Any opinions?
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 23:57:06 PST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Brett Fraser
Subject: Re: (22r) A/C at idle ?
At 10:06 PM 2/6/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Just seeing someone post about an A/C problem reminded me of one
>of my own. When my engine is warm and the A/C is on, the engine
>rev's up and down, up and down, someone mentioned before if the
>compressor was cutting on and off, I've tried to tell, but with
>the engine revving up and down, I can't hear anything ...
Hmm .. its a shame thats only happening with the AC on as thats
exactly what is happening with a friends NA 87 MR2 .. mainly noticed
it at warm although it may happen at cold .. the revs will typically bounce
in a methodical pulse between 1000-1250 or 1500 or so .. and sometimes they'll
bounce downwards from 1500-1000 so .. its really erie (sp?) (damnit that word
really doesnt look right..) ..
Any ideas anyone?.. We just replaced the fuel filter (didnt look like it hadb
been done in the 190,000km the car has on it ) for a heavy stuttering .. seems
to have cleared that up a fair bit .. but the rev prob persists.
Brett
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:13:24 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: CAM timing and A/C
On fuel injected cars, the idle-up is simply a little solenoid that leaks
air into the intake manifold. Anybody want to speculate on the effect
of doing something like this on a carb'd car? Obviously, you'd have to
do some sort of a balanced setup on the dual side-draft setup.
Another option would be adding a very small fuel injector. You could
simply wire it up to open when your AC comes on, then play with the
fuel pressure until your idle-up is right. The only problem that
comes to mind here is that you're going to have to replumb your
filtration system so that all of your air flow into the 4 bbls. goes
through one place where you could inject the fuel. (Obviously, place
the injector between the filter and carbs.)
If you wanted to get really fancy, HKS sells Additional Injector
Controllers! (Just kidding, way overkill.)
Chris
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:45:15 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: (22r) A/C at idle ?
>Just seeing someone post about an A/C problem reminded me of one
>of my own. When my engine is warm and the A/C is on, the engine
>rev's up and down, up and down, someone mentioned before if the
>compressor was cutting on and off, I've tried to tell, but with
>the engine revving up and down, I can't hear anything ...
Jack:
On my 22R 4x4, the A/C doesn't even come on until the idle is above
1000 rpm--kind of a reverse idle-up concept. This means at traffic
lights on hot summer days I sit there with my left foot on the brake
on the right foot holding the rev's right at 1000 rpm. ;-)
You might have a problem where your idle is set high enough that
the A/C comes on, but the load pulls it below the lower limit and it
then shuts off. There is about 500 rpm between the turn on and cut
off, but I could see this happening.
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:50:32 -0500
From: "ROGERS"
To: LIBURD I <91557593@cyberspace.cyberauto.com>,
Subject: Re: Starlet
Actually Fred's my uncle! The Body kit I have on my starlet, and the same as on
the yellow starlet whose picture was on the toyota mods server (Is this server
still around?) Was made by a company in Barbados. Do you have a 2 door or 4 door
starlet?
The price worked out to about $US 1000, and included replacement front fenders,
front bumper, rear wheel arches, side skirts, and an adjustable rear wing
(sierra cosworth style). However I didn't worry with the wing as it was a bit to
"loud" for my conservative lifestyle ;-)
The only other comercially available body kit I have seen for these early model
starlets, was in a RipSpeed (London U.K) catalog. Not as nice as mine (IMHO) and
was more money to boot.
Roger Smith
Gold Disk Inc.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starlet
From: LIBURD I <91557593@mmu.ac.uk> at Internet
Date: 2/7/96 12:20 PM
Please can you sent me any information you have on Toyota Starlet
Body Kits. (I believe the man in the know is Fred Smith)
UK Manchester
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:24:06 -0500
To: toyota-l@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh)
Subject: Jacobs Energy Pak
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
I know that some of you tm'ers don't believe in ignition systems, so I can
probably guess what your response would be to the following..
I was wondering if anyone has had bad experiences with the Jacobs Ign. Sys.
I live in Md. and over the past few days it's been 20 deg and below. My
'85 Celica would not start. I couldn't figure it out, but I just recently
traced it to the Jacobs. Whenever I would bypass the system, the car would
start. If I immediately turned the car off, hooked it back up, then the
car would start! The Jacobs would not start the car on a cold start (2hrs.
or more in 20 deg.). I also noticed that when I bypassed the system my car
would accelerate smoother. When I hooked it back up, let it idle, and
stomp on the gas, it would sputter before revving up. Bypass it and do the
same, it would rev up smooth. This may explain why my gas mileage has been
suffering, even after the header and X-haust system.
I don't know if it's the secondary trigger failing or what. I plan on
calling the company today so they can tell me what _I_ am doing wrong (yeah
right). Does anyone have one of these systems and notice a significant
improvement like the kind Jacob's advertises. If noone has seen better gas
mileage, quicker accel., or any of the sort, then I might have to chuck it.
Thanks for your responses, and no bashing,
-frederick.
'85 Celica GT-S Convertible
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To: bconnelly
Cc: toyota-mods
From: "john.limcangco"
Date: 7 Feb 96 9:31:39
Subject: CAM timing and A/C
Hi,
My car idles fine when the A/C is off, but when I turn the A/C on it almost
stumbles. I raised the idle to 1,500 - 1,750 rpms with the A/C off just to
compensate. With the A/C turned-on, it drops to 1,000 rpms.
Is this a CAM timing problem or something else? I have stock CAMs.
Follow-up question, is there a way to install and 'idle-up' circuit with twin
side-drafts?
Thanks,
John Limcangco
Manila, Philippines
79 Cressida 18RG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To: toyota-mods @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ internet
cc: (bcc: John Limcangco)
From: bconnelly @ VNET.IBM.COM @ internet
Date: 02/07/96 11:46 PM
Subject: CAMS (4AG)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You MUST obey the HKS data sheet for EFI CAM timing if you dont want to stall
when you put
the A/C on.
Bruce connelly
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From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 10:46:18 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: CAMS (4AG)
To those that asked about 3SG injectors,
The Australian 4AG's have a MAP sensor and no airflow meter, so did the Jap
ones. This applies to all the small crank engines. There is no recalibration
necessary other than to the spark when using 3SG injectors and small CAMS,
for the spark you advance it as much as possible until it pings (at least
25 before top). I have seen pictures of the US engines in the TPH and some
have the OZ setup and some have an airflow sensor. If you have airflow I would
be tempted to adjust the sensor as it says in TPH and then insert the CAMS
and the injectors. If the CAMS are larger (280 and above) I have heard reports
of low vacuum for braking, Chris is shipping me a 270 so I can try 270/264
with 3SG injectors and factory box, I am confident this will work as I have
already tried 272/272 in another car with good results accept at idle. Idle
for MAP sensor cars is VERY critically defined by the overlap. You MUST obey
the HKS data sheet for EFI CAM timing if you dont want to stall when you put
the A/C on.
Bruce connelly
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From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 08:50:40 -0600
Subject: 22r Timing chain & compression ratio. ?'s
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Hello,
I am in the process of getting a webber setup for my 22r, and cleaning
up the head and intake. In the process I have thought of milling the head about
.020 in. (the machine shops here don't talk metric too well.) in order to raise
the compression a little, and clean it up. Any Ideas? Or should I find a set of
10:1 pistons to put in for $400+ a set (If they were around $200 that wouldn't
be an issue.)
Also I am Replacing the timing set and have heard the late model (86-up)
has a double row chain that can be swapped in if you get the timing chain cover
from a newer motor? Are there any other parts I should look for with it? Or is
a new timing set (chain, sprockets, guide & tensioner) and the cover all I need?
Any other suggestions for improvement while I am in this far?
Thanks,
Brian
Oh yeah, the subject is an '84 4x4, 22R, Downey Header, Downey Mid-range Cam,
NWOR dist. re-curve, soon to have webber 38 or 40 DPS, and accell 3000+
ignition.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 09:21:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak
To: fmarsh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Frederick Marsh),
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
In my search for an Ignition system, I have heard so many negative things about
the Jacobs from people who have actually owned & used them - about 70% of the
ones I caontacted have returned them at least once if not perminantely... Not a
real good track record. The few who said they got them working properly, really
like them, but I decided to stay away from them for the number of initial
problems. I do believe a Hotter / Fatter spark does help and have run MSD
systems, and accell super coil (on old points type cars) with good results. I
am currently looking in to the accell 3000+ ignition system, it's functin is
similar to the MSD, but uses newer electronic technology, and is a little
smaller.
How old is the unit? Is it the all-in-one or the separate coil & module?
- Brian
On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh) wrote:
>I know that some of you tm'ers don't believe in ignition systems, so I can
>probably guess what your response would be to the following..
>
>I was wondering if anyone has had bad experiences with the Jacobs Ign. Sys.
>I live in Md. and over the past few days it's been 20 deg and below. My
>'85 Celica would not start. I couldn't figure it out, but I just recently
>traced it to the Jacobs. Whenever I would bypass the system, the car would
>start. If I immediately turned the car off, hooked it back up, then the
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:35:55 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov (Stuart Banks)
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name : Stuart Banks
Location : (Washington, DC /USA )
Model : (1984 4runner SR5)
Engine : (22R) prior to 7/84
Mods : (Weber 32/36 DGAV carburetor
Offenhauser Dual Port intake manifold
1 mm oversized intake and exhaust valves
Mallory Unilight distributor
L.C. Street Performer cam
Dual roller timing chain
93 mm pistons
Tri-Y headers
2.25" exhaust w/ Dynomax Super Turbo muffler
NWOR 2" lift
Braided stainless brake lines
RS 9000 shocks
LA Locker in the rear
31X10.5 BFG MT)
email : stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov
I think I sent this to the wrong address the first time, if this is a
repeat, sorry
******************************
* stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov *
* Stuart Banks *
* NASA GSFC Code 713 *
* Greenbelt, MD 20771 *
* (301)286-5934 *
******************************
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From: LIBURD I <91557593@mmu.ac.uk>
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:48:00 GMT
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name :Isaac Liburd
Location : Manchester, England
Model :Toyota Starlet 1983
Engine : Factory supplied 1.2litre
Mods : Standard
email :: 91557593@mmu.ac.uk
I am in the process of converting my Starlet to the four wheel drive
running gear of a 2 litre Ford Sierra Cosworth (204 bhp) model. This
conversion includes the engine as well. I am currently sourcing the
parts that I require for this conversion and I will keep you posted
on the developments.
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From: LIBURD I <91557593@mmu.ac.uk>
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:53:53 GMT
Subject: Starlet
Please can you sent me any information you have on Toyota Starlet
Body Kits. (I believe the man in the know is Fred Smith)
UK Manchester
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:15:37 -0600
To: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak
>I was wondering if anyone has had bad experiences with the Jacobs Ign. Sys.
>I live in Md. and over the past few days it's been 20 deg and below. My
Yes, I ate the $37.50 restocking fee and got the rest of my money back,
I adjusted my timing about 300 times, gapped, re-gapped and re-re-gapped
my plugs, my engine never stopped knocking, I got worse gas mileage ...
this was with an Omni-Pak ... I think Jacobs sucks in general, but makes
a decent set of plug wires, which I still have and like ... ymmv
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:26:20 -0600
To: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: me/mine/mods
Way cool ... Two guys with 4x4's joined the list in the same week !
How do you like that Intake, Stuart ??
At 10:35 AM 2/7/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Name : Stuart Banks
>Location : (Washington, DC /USA )
>Model : (1984 4runner SR5)
>Engine : (22R) prior to 7/84
>Mods : (Weber 32/36 DGAV carburetor
> Offenhauser Dual Port intake manifold
> 1 mm oversized intake and exhaust valves
> Mallory Unilight distributor
> L.C. Street Performer cam
> Dual roller timing chain
> 93 mm pistons
> Tri-Y headers
> 2.25" exhaust w/ Dynomax Super Turbo muffler
>
> NWOR 2" lift
> Braided stainless brake lines
> RS 9000 shocks
> LA Locker in the rear
> 31X10.5 BFG MT)
>
>email : stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>I think I sent this to the wrong address the first time, if this is a
>repeat, sorry
>
>******************************
>* stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov *
>* Stuart Banks *
>* NASA GSFC Code 713 *
>* Greenbelt, MD 20771 *
>* (301)286-5934 *
>******************************
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "'toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com'"
From: Tony York
Subject: me/mine/mods
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 08:57:15 PST
Name : Tony York
Location : Northampton, England, UK.
Model : '86 Corolla GT Twin Cam (GT-S)
Engine : 4A-GE
Mods : JR Clamp on air filter, lots of polish.
Soon : Suspension, lowering, alloy change (Cosmetic
mainly), Can't afford engine mods at the moment.
Email :york@radstone.co.uk
I think I've probably sent this info before but I couldn't remember
and someone went and cleared all my previous mail GRRRR!!!
If anyone has any cheap engine mods for the GT-S please let me know.
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:09:07 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh)
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak
>Yes, I ate the $37.50 restocking fee and got the rest of my money back,
>I adjusted my timing about 300 times, gapped, re-gapped and re-re-gapped
>my plugs, my engine never stopped knocking, I got worse gas mileage ...
>this was with an Omni-Pak ... I think Jacobs sucks in general, but makes
>a decent set of plug wires, which I still have and like ... ymmv
Sounds all to familiar. However, I just called Jacobs, and they said they
would send me a new secondary trigger and distributor wire that would
eliminate the use of the 7to8mm adapters. They attributed the no starting
problem to the cold increasing resistance in the power wire to the OmniPak.
They suggested I put in a 30A relay that would allow the full 12V to go to
the pak. They also suggested that I replace the Bosch Platinum Plugs with
the straight Autolite Coppercore and regap them .002 beyond recommended
gap. Before they were supposed to be regapped to .055. I will try this
out because truthfully, when I first got the thing I can't quite recall any
problems off the bat. They only developed after a while.
Will post update w/ or w/o warning to potential buyers.
-frederick.
'85 Celica GTS Convertible
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To: toyota-mods
From: Steven Jackson/CAM/Lotus
Date: 7 Feb 96 12:13:23 EST
Subject: Re: Which handles best?
Uh, well, which handles better between the Corolla GTS and the FX-16? That
would be the MR2 :). Okay, handling? Handling means somewhat different things
to different folks, but I'll work off of some assumptions. The MR2, if you
don't need the car to be very spacious, is achitected the way of all very fast
cars. This proper platform starts by putting the engine in the middle of the
car (and there are front mid-engined cars, and rear mid-engined cars), and then
driving the rear wheels or all-four wheels, never just the front wheels. This
is a bit academic, in fact, for most of us running our road cars. In the realm
of mere mortal road cars, there're certainly some fast front wheel driver cars
out there. And just because a car is mid-engined and rear-wheel drive doesn't
ensure that the chassis is necessarily very competent. But the MR2 does have
competition-demonstrated world-class chassis performance. A new generation MR2
Turbo won the SCCA Solo II nationals in A-Stock this year, beating out some
very pricey competition. At the SCCA Solo II National Tour event that came
through Boston last summer, MR2s took first and second places in C-Stock, with
a new generation car and an '85 car in those positions respectively (though the
Miata R is the car for C-Stock). Of course, above all, they were driven well,
and also prepared well.
Of course, in SCCA Showroom Stock road racing, the MR2s are very competitive,
as is the Miata, but the new Dodge Neon ACR racing car is just downright faster.
If you want to do development beyond stock, the MR2 is the platform of choice
for doing something really crazy. It's just the right achitecture. Any
generation will do. I'd suggest taking a simpler, lighter first generation car,
drop in a Formula Atlantic motor, tweak the hell out of the chassis, and go
crazy . Of course, affording an Atlantic motor might be an issue, it would be
for me, but maybe you'll come across somebody who's looking to get out of
Atlantic really cheap and has a bunch of spare Toyota Atlantic motors just
lying around... .
I don't know much about the Corolla GTS. But I thought at one time that the
FX-16 might just be a sleeper. A few of the local SCCA folks had them and I
watched the FX-16s run and talked with their drivers about them. Unfortunately,
it isn't, or perhaps it's better said wasn't, a successful car in the hands of
some pretty competent folks, and they weren't pleased with platform.
- Steven
n.briggs @ student.canterbury.ac.nz (Neil Briggs)
02/07/96 04:50 PM
To: toyota-mods @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ INTERNET
cc: (bcc: Steven Jackson/CAM/Lotus)
Subject: Which handles best?
Does anyone have any opinions which should handle best out of say, a
sedan/coupe design or a shorter more compact hatchback. An example of this
might be between the corolla GTS coupe and the FX-16 hatch, or any two cars
with the same model chassis/engine combination. Any opinions?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 09:18:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Re: CAM timing and A/C (18RG)
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
>On fuel injected cars, the idle-up is simply a little solenoid that leaks
>air into the intake manifold. Anybody want to speculate on the effect
>of doing something like this on a carb'd car? Obviously, you'd have to
>do some sort of a balanced setup on the dual side-draft setup.
Don't the 18RG and 18RGU stock intake manifolds have a balance tube
connecting the four intake ports together? I remember seeing this in the
Haynes repair manual (1978-1981 Celica). I think this exists in order to
generate a stable vacuum for the distributor advance. This balance tube
would be ideal to let additional air into for an idle up function. Since
the additional air is bypassing the carb, the air/fuel ratio will lean out a
bit. But it is probably running rich anyways at idle, so it might be OK.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
PS. The Haynes manual that I mentioned above is sold in the US for the US
spec Celicas (20R). It also includes the 18R and 18RG engines, since this
manual originates in the UK.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 13:23:39 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: CAM timing and A/C (4AG)
All the 4AG's I have seen have electric idle up circuits. Check this circuit,
it has a knob on top to control the air intake. If if is working ok I think
the air valve is faulty, it is the valve on the bottom of the trottle body
and has two hoses to it. Check the hoses for restriction, if ok replace the
valve with a new one. If your motor dates from 1985-1987 it is almost certain
to be the valve. It is possible to fit idle up circuits with Webbers but it
is difficult, you must drill holes in the manifold and fit a valve controlled
by the idle up A/C circuit which is s small steel box on top of the factory
ECU.
Bruce
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Brett Fraser ,
From: Tony York
Subject: Re: (22r) A/C at idle ?
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 09:25:00 PST
At 10:06 PM 2/6/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Just seeing someone post about an A/C problem reminded me of one
>of my own. When my engine is warm and the A/C is on, the engine
>rev's up and down, up and down, someone mentioned before if the
>compressor was cutting on and off, I've tried to tell, but with
>the engine revving up and down, I can't hear anything ...
Hmm .. its a shame thats only happening with the AC on as thats
exactly what is happening with a friends NA 87 MR2 .. mainly noticed
it at warm although it may happen at cold .. the revs will typically bounce
in a methodical pulse between 1000-1250 or 1500 or so .. and sometimes they'll
bounce downwards from 1500-1000 so .. its really erie (sp?) (damnit that word
really doesnt look right..) ..
Any ideas anyone?.. We just replaced the fuel filter (didnt look like it hadb
been done in the 190,000km the car has on it ) for a heavy stuttering .. seems
to have cleared that up a fair bit .. but the rev prob persists.
Brett
==============================
Hi Brett,
I had problems with my Corolla GT Twin Cam ((GT-S)4A-GE) idling/ revving
up and down. I later discovered that it was all due to air in the
cooling system. Bleeding the system cured the problem. It was revving
between 900rpm and 2000rpm.The temperature sensor was sensing the
difference in temperature and adjusting the idle speed accordingly.
Could be air !?
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 09:39:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
>eliminate the use of the 7to8mm adapters. They attributed the no starting
>problem to the cold increasing resistance in the power wire to the OmniPak.
>They suggested I put in a 30A relay that would allow the full 12V to go to
>the pak. They also suggested that I replace the Bosch Platinum Plugs with
This sounds like bullsh*t. The resistance of copper wire (and probably most
other metals as well) will *decrease* with decreasing temperature.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: aly abulkheir
Subject: These Ignition Amps
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:25:13 -0500 (EST)
Hello Toyota owners,
Well, this discussion of Jacobs Ignition systems being troublesome
is interesting. I have never owned an upgraded ignition system, but I have
been planning to put one in this summer.
So the bottom line is: What do the majority of people on this list
believe to be the best ignition amp to go with? I suppose the top choices
would now be the MSD, Accel, or Crane. I see that the MSD has a good
reliability record. And that good things have been said about the other
two. Anyone consider one to stand out as the most reliable and best
performing one out of these three?
This info would be very helpful in making my decision.
Thanks,
Aly, '85 MR2
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 14:20:50 -0600
Subject: 20R head on 22R
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Hello,
I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that need
to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R head, or
will I have to replace that also?
Thanks,
Brian
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
To: bwiencek@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:38:57 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
bwiencek@kcnet.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
> 22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that need
> to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R head, or
> will I have to replace that also?
>
This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
and later 22r's.
cheers,
john
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:51:09 -0500
To: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov (Stuart Banks)
Subject: Impression of the Offy
Howdy,
Since I put the 32/36 DGAV in at the same time as the Offy it's hard for me
to give a fair impression of the Offy. However after I purchased the Offy
I started to hear a lot of unfavorable things about it (poor flow) so I'm
planning on swapping in the original manifold (with the holes in the plenum
machined out) and using Downeys velocity stack adapter. Once this is done
I will let you know what I think. If anyone else has experience with this
manifold I'd like to know what you think.
Also I would like to get some feedback on going to a 38 DGES I am sure that
the 32/36 is small for this engine at the mid. and top end but I'm worried
about the 38s affect on the low end especially when starting in deep mud
with 31X10.5 BFG MT and the stock 4.11:1 R&P.
any thoughts?
Thanks much
Stuart
>Way cool ... Two guys with 4x4's joined the list in the same week !
>
>How do you like that Intake, Stuart ??
>
>At 10:35 AM 2/7/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Name : Stuart Banks
>>Location : (Washington, DC /USA )
>>Model : (1984 4runner SR5)
>>Engine : (22R) prior to 7/84
>>Mods : (Weber 32/36 DGAV carburetor
>> Offenhauser Dual Port intake manifold
>> 1 mm oversized intake and exhaust valves
>> Mallory Unilight distributor
>> L.C. Street Performer cam
>> Dual roller timing chain
>> 93 mm pistons
>> Tri-Y headers
>> 2.25" exhaust w/ Dynomax Super Turbo muffler
>>
>> NWOR 2" lift
>> Braided stainless brake lines
>> RS 9000 shocks
>> LA Locker in the rear
>> 31X10.5 BFG MT)
******************************
* stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov *
* Stuart Banks *
* NASA GSFC Code 713 *
* Greenbelt, MD 20771 *
* (301)286-5934 *
******************************
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:08:05 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
>
> I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
>22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that
need
>to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R
head, or
>will I have to replace that also?
The Dec. or Jan Issue of FOURWHEELER went all out with a 20R head, I posted
to this list what all they did to the head, maybe some kind
soul who saved it will send it to you ?? To the list for that matter ...
In this months issue(March 96) they put the engine all back together,
they claim ~30% gains, they measured rear wheel horsepower on their 84
22R at 65hp before the swap , after the 20R intake/head and 32/36 weber,
they measured 85 horsepower at the rear wheels ...
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:56:15 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
>
>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>and later 22r's.
Why is not possible ?? I happen to know of one 22RE with a 20R head on
it ...
- jack
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:17:30 +1100 (EST)
From: Justin Simpson
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RA 23 wheels
Chris, what size rim did those 185's come out on for the RA 23, and while
on the subject of wheels can anyone tell me where a vehicles track is
measured from. Is it from the outside of the rim, the centre of the rim
or maybe the face of the hub. I'm fairly sure it's the first but i want
to make sure before i get an engineers for my 8" wheels.
Thanks
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Justen Simpson simpson@lake.canberra.edu.au
CRC for Freshwater Ecology, Uni of Canberra, Australia
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: RA 23 wheels
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:09:30 +0200 (EET)
> Chris, what size rim did those 185's come out on for the RA 23, and while
> on the subject of wheels can anyone tell me where a vehicles track is
> measured from. Is it from the outside of the rim, the centre of the rim
> or maybe the face of the hub. I'm fairly sure it's the first but i want
> to make sure before i get an engineers for my 8" wheels.
From the middle of the tyre or rim.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 17:22:31 -0700
From: Steve Alexander
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Which handles best?
kca@interserv.com wrote:
>
> On Wed, 07 Feb 1996, n.briggs@student.canterbury.ac.nz (Neil Briggs) wrote:
> >Does anyone have any opinions which should handle best out of say, a
> >sedan/coupe design or a shorter more compact hatchback. An example of this
> >might be between the corolla GTS coupe and the FX-16 hatch, or any two cars
> >with the same model chassis/engine combination. Any opinions?
>
You might want to consider 2 factors: Weight, and Chassis stiffness.
Less weight for the same power is ALWAYS desirable. In some cars (i.e
Honda CRX vs. Si model of regular 3 door Civic) people claim that the
regular car is stiffer, making it handle better!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary Hong
To: bwiencek@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 22r Timing chain & compression ratio. ?'s
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 16:54:15 PST
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
>
>Hello,
>
> I am in the process of getting a webber setup for my 22r, and cleaning
>up the head and intake. In the process I have thought of milling the head about
>.020 in. (the machine shops here don't talk metric too well.) in order to raise
>the compression a little, and clean it up. Any Ideas? Or should I find a set of
>10:1 pistons to put in for $400+ a set (If they were around $200 that wouldn't
>be an issue.)
>
> Also I am Replacing the timing set and have heard the late model (86-up)
>has a double row chain that can be swapped in if you get the timing chain cover
>from a newer motor? Are there any other parts I should look for with it? Or is
>a new timing set (chain, sprockets, guide & tensioner) and the cover all I need?
The early 22r's have the double row timing chain which you can swap into the
later models. LC sells a kit for this.
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 19:06:29 -0600
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
I think you are talking about the tall deck blocks that were made in 85 only.
there are a lot of specific parts for the year, and in 86 they 'fixed' some of
the problems with the 85 and went back to a lower deck height.
- Brian
On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, toy4x4@ro.com wrote:
>>
>>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>>and later 22r's.
>
>Why is not possible ?? I happen to know of one 22RE with a 20R head on
>it ...
>
> - jack
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:21:05 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak
>Yes, I ate the $37.50 restocking fee and got the rest of my money back,
>I adjusted my timing about 300 times, gapped, re-gapped and re-re-gapped
>my plugs, my engine never stopped knocking, I got worse gas mileage ...
>this was with an Omni-Pak ... I think Jacobs sucks in general, but makes
>a decent set of plug wires, which I still have and like ... ymmv
Racer I know raves about the plug wires--says they never burn, even in
a SB Chevy application (where the plug wires lay right on the exhaust
header, or very nearly.)
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary Hong
To: 91557593@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, ROGERS@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
Cc: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 17:27:14 PST
Speaking of body kits .... Does anyone know where I can get the Mitcom
body kits for an 82 Celica? I have the kit for the GT cars that include
the Mitcom fender flare. However, due to an unfortunate accident about 2 years
ago, my entire passenger side skirt and front airdam was damage when I slid
off the road. I want to replace the front airdam and side skirt. Anyone know
of a place that carries them? Chris, can you get them?
The company goes by the name of Mitcom or Prototype Plastics. They are/were
based in Compton, California. The kit is called (don't laugh cuz my
girlfriend did) the "shogun" kit :). It looks like the kit TRD used to sell
for the Celicas/Supras - the name escapes me at the moment, but it starts with
a "K" and sounds like Kalemari (yeah, right... I think I'm thinking
Kalemari cuz I'm craving for Calemari) :).
Thanks,
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:35:25 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>and later 22r's.
Um, wouldn't this be the other way around, that you can't put the
late model 22R head on the earlier block, with the late model head has
the flat combustion chamber and the earlier block has domed pistons?
Beth, what does Jeff say?
Chris
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary Hong
To: bwiencek@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 17:35:47 PST
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
>
>Hello,
>
> I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
>22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that need
>to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R head, or
>will I have to replace that also?
>
>Thanks,
> Brian
I think it matters what year 20R head you use on a certain 22R block. Might
want to check with Chris or the list on this.
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary Hong
To: bwiencek@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, jrredho@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 17:36:16 PST
>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>and later 22r's.
>
>cheers,
>john
Hmmm.. I guess John answered my previous posting :).
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Gary Hong
To: toy4x4@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 17:37:41 PST
From: toy4x4@ro.com
>
>>
>> I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
>>22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that
>need
>>to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R
>head, or
>>will I have to replace that also?
>
>The Dec. or Jan Issue of FOURWHEELER went all out with a 20R head, I posted
>to this list what all they did to the head, maybe some kind
>soul who saved it will send it to you ?? To the list for that matter ...
>
>In this months issue(March 96) they put the engine all back together,
>they claim ~30% gains, they measured rear wheel horsepower on their 84
>22R at 65hp before the swap , after the 20R intake/head and 32/36 weber,
>they measured 85 horsepower at the rear wheels ...
>
> - jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com
>
I read the Jan article. Did Fourwheeler have an article in Feb on the 22R/20R
project truck?
Gary
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:44:06 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: RA 23 wheels
>Chris, what size rim did those 185's come out on for the RA 23, and while
>on the subject of wheels can anyone tell me where a vehicles track is
>measured from. Is it from the outside of the rim, the centre of the rim
>or maybe the face of the hub. I'm fairly sure it's the first but i want
>to make sure before i get an engineers for my 8" wheels.
5.5" The later Celica's came with 5", 5.5", 6", and even 7" (83-85 GTS.)
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:37:51 -0500
From: mdowe@wchat.on.ca
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Why did they go and do that?
> Hey folks,
> I was changing my battery cables on my '77 2T-C Corolla
>today because they were cruddy on the battery side, have been cleaned
>4 million times, and just needed replacing. I looked down at the
>starter side to yank that end off after I did the battery end and "oh my
>gosh!", Why in 'da heck did they have to put the starter in there so
>dang snug with everything else? I couldn't see the starter leads or even
>get my hand on them. I ended up having to take off the exhaust manifold
>to get to it. That sucked!
> All was not lost though, I did find a 10mm craftsman socket and
>a 1/4" extension lost by the previous owner down amongst there. :)
> Oh well.......
>
That's nothing, anyone know where the starter is on a LS400?
Answer Tomorrow,
Mike Dowe
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:52:52 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: A/C idle-up and dual carbs (18RG)
>Now there's two schools of thought presented regarding idle-up circuits.
>1. squirt additional fuel and the idle goes up.
>2. introduce additional air and the idle goes up.
Aw, I came up with that wacky fuel idea on a whim--way overkill! Go to
the junk yard and look for an idle up circuit on a fuel injected car.
On my Mazda 323 they are mounted to the firewall just below the windshield.
They are little plastic things, with a hose running in, a hose running
out, a pair of wires to the solenoid, and an adjustment screw. The
bigger the idleup switch, the more idle-up you get. On my Mazda, there
are two, a small one for the electrical load idle-up, and a larger one
for the A/C idleup. Usually one of the hoses runs in from the
air intake just after the filter box, and the other goes into the manifold.
You'll find one. You could buy one but I don't know how much one of these
would cost in the Philipines.
To install, just make a place to insert one end of the hose inside your
air filter, and connect the other to the manifold balance thing you
have. Figure out a way to jumper off the wire running to your compressors
electric clutch to switch the solenoid open. Fiddle with the screw on
the thing (with the A/C on) until you get the idle you want. Voila,
you're in business.
Interesting note as long as I'm blabbing on the subject. On my Mazda,
the A/C idle up is not what it seems! It seems that some dastardly
cheater drilled a hole right through the body of the idleup solenoid,
through the firewall, and ran a thin steel tubing from the intake right
to a bottle of special sauce hidden under the seat! Trigger was wired
to the windshield wiper lever on the column. Man, what some folks will
do to get an advantage over their fellow competitor! Not me, btw, but
the former owner of the car. Was in first place at Daytona with this
setup until the bottle ran out. Should have done what his fellow
competitors did and sealed/charged the roll cage. Would have had plenty
of NOS then!
chris
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:50:27 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford)
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
>I read the Jan article. Did Fourwheeler have an article in Feb on the 22R/20R
>project truck?
Yes, but it was on the suspension and some other trail stuff, not the
engine ....
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Red-Horse
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
To: bwiencek@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:46:51 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
bwiencek@kcnet.com wrote:
>
> I think you are talking about the tall deck blocks that were made in 85 only.
> there are a lot of specific parts for the year, and in 86 they 'fixed' some of
> the problems with the 85 and went back to a lower deck height.
>
That's not the story that I heard two years ago when I talked a fellow
at TRD (I think that it was RJ) about this very subject. I *think* that
I was told that the taller deck height applied for all 22r blocks 85 1/2
and later.
cheers,
john
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: bwiencek
Cc: toyota-mods
From: "john.limcangco"
Date: 8 Feb 96 8:16:49
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R block (was: Re: Chris' advice on my....)
Brian,
I'm forwarding to you all the back-posts that I have kept regarding putting
a 20R head on a 22R engine (total of three, other list members may have
more). I'll send it to you through three separate mails...
I hope it helps..... If anyone else on the list is interested in copies, send
me a note and I'll forward them to you too..
John Limcangco
Manila, Philippines
79 Cressida 18RG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To: toyota-mods @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ internet
cc: (bcc: John Limcangco)
From: bwiencek @ kcnet.com @ internet
Date: 02/08/96 03:20 AM
Subject: 20R head on 22R
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hello,
I have another question, this time it's about putting a 20R head on a
22R engine. (better flow, more compression, etc.) Are there any mods that
need
to be done to the head? and also, will my Downey cam work with the 20R head, or
will I have to replace that also?
Thanks,
Brian
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: bzublin
Cc: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
From: "john.limcangco"
Date: 8 Feb 96 8:58:06
Subject: Re: A/C idle-up and dual carbs (18RG)
You are right about 18RG's having a balance tube connecting the intake ports.
I'm currently not running vacuum advance and have the removed the balance tube
and plugged-up the holes. I can re-install the tube and use the 'vacuum
advance port' (?? I made that up) to introduce additional air.
Now there's two schools of thought presented regarding idle-up circuits.
1. squirt additional fuel and the idle goes up.
2. introduce additional air and the idle goes up.
Am I confused? Yes I am. Someone please straighten me out here.... How does
the idle-up work?
Thanks,
John Limcangco
Manila, Philippines
79 Cressida 18RG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To: toyota-mods @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com ("toyota-mods@cyberauto.com") @
internet
cc: (bcc: John Limcangco)
From: BZUBLIN @ PO2.GI.COM ("Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)") @ internet (Mailed by:
BZUBLIN @ PO2.GI.COM ("Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)") @ internet)
Date: 02/07/96 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: CAM timing and A/C (18RG)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>On fuel injected cars, the idle-up is simply a little solenoid that leaks
>air into the intake manifold. Anybody want to speculate on the effect
>of doing something like this on a carb'd car? Obviously, you'd have to
>do some sort of a balanced setup on the dual side-draft setup.
Don't the 18RG and 18RGU stock intake manifolds have a balance tube
connecting the four intake ports together? I remember seeing this in the
Haynes repair manual (1978-1981 Celica). I think this exists in order to
generate a stable vacuum for the distributor advance. This balance tube
would be ideal to let additional air into for an idle up function. Since
the additional air is bypassing the carb, the air/fuel ratio will lean out a
bit. But it is probably running rich anyways at idle, so it might be OK.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
PS. The Haynes manual that I mentioned above is sold in the US for the US
spec Celicas (20R). It also includes the 18R and 18RG engines, since this
manual originates in the UK.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:46:12 -0800
From: squelch@ix.netcom.com (John Welch )
Subject: LS 400 starter
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Mike Dowe questioned where the starter was in a Lexue LS400
On the 4.0 Liter V-8 isn't the starter in the valley under the intake
manifold.....
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 08:51:52 CST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re[2]: 20R head on 22R
My 1977 20R has flat pistons not domed
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
Author: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer) at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/7/96 9:00 PM
>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>and later 22r's.
Um, wouldn't this be the other way around, that you can't put the
late model 22R head on the earlier block, with the late model head has
the flat combustion chamber and the earlier block has domed pistons?
Beth, what does Jeff say?
Chris
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:06:55 -0800
From: squelch@ix.netcom.com (John Welch )
Subject: Ignitions
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Hello there everybody..
I'm new to this internet e-mail thing, and I'm no expert on ignitions
but this is what I have and it works well.
'87 MR-2 4AGE Turbocharged 240 bhp.
I started With HKS's EGC unit and Twin Power setup. Hated it.
The Twin Power alone worked GREAT,
The EGC however I could not get set up right, bouncing timing at idle
inconstiant timing curve, poor starts, poor mileage.
I removed both of those and replace it with the Jacobs OminPak and a
Jacobs boost timing controller ( not sure of the name it was a few
years ago ) Similar problems as above.
The setup I have now is...
J&S Electronice Digital SafeGuard and the HKS Twin Power Amp.
I LOVE THIS !
I set my timing 2-3 degrees advanced and forget it.
The J&S unit has a knock sensor that listens to EACH cylinder and
retards only the one that starts to knock. It's sensor hears it way
before anyones ear ever would. I'v had no problems with this setup
even when running 15 psi of boost.
Only one note. the Toyota ingnition system needs a special coil
installed in the J&S unit in order for the factory ECU to think it
still has a coil connected. No problem though the unit can be ordered
that way.
Disclaimer:
Although this recomendation or modification has been sucessful in my
application it has not been subject to exaustive testing and may not in
all instances provide a compleate soultion. Thease are my opinions and
may not nessarly agree with the opinions of management or others.
Thank You
John Welch
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 11:10:54 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Idle up on 2TG 18RG
To the list,
The factory card manifolds for the 2TG/18RG have a balancing setup that leads
to the PCV and eventually to outside world via a steel valve on the CAM cover.
This leaks air into all 4 inlets at once and was used to stop the 9.8:1 (2TG)
engines running on. When fitting Webbers you usually stop up these holes
however they can be used for A/C idle up. All my 2TG's came with A/C and small
idle up circuits.
Bruce
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 11:27:44 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: FX-16 v's AE86 v's Early MR2
Guy's,
This is just my opinion but I have owned and raced all three cars in Australia
in the standard and modified classes. On radials ( 'R' class tyres)the AE86 IS
king over the AE82 and the MR2 is the SLOWEST!!!!! The reason is,it is that
the MR2 is too heavy and the 86 handles better having almost no vices.
The MR2 has DRAMATIC oversteer at the limit, it is too heavy in the rear.
The 82 is fastest in a straight line and will win on long straight tracks
because it is slightly lighter. If the speed of the circuit exceeds 185Km/hr
down the main straight then 82 will hit an air wall and the MR2 will eventually
pass it. In tight tracks the 82 handles badly because the frame flexes, they
fixed this on the 92 but did it at the expense of weight. For all round work
the 86 is best, followed by MR2 then AE82. Please understand this is my
opinion and these cars may have different weights in the US. However the last
of the 2 litre MR2's just leaves all the other under 2 litre Toyotas for
dead.
Bruce
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: bconnelly
Cc: toyota-mods
From: "john.limcangco"
Date: 8 Feb 96 11:03:50
Subject: Idle up on 2TG 18RG
Do tell more! =)
I basically have two problems that might be addressed in this thread.... Bells
are going off in my head right now =)
1. Engine run on. I have 9.7:1 compression. What do I plug to what?
On the 18RG block, right below the carbs, there's a metal tube (fitting)
pointing upwards... and on the middle of the balance tube, there's a metal
fitting pointing downwards. Should I connect these two fittings together with
a rubber hose? (I don't think I should) Right now, they are both plugged up.
According to some 18RG pictures I've seen there's a rubber hose (#1) connected
to the CAM cover and the air cleaner. And there's another tube (#2) connected
to the air cleaner and a metal canister (valve?) that is bolted on the CAM
cover. Another hose (#3) connects the canister to something in the middle of
the two carbs (can't tell where). Could it be that hose #3 is connected to the
fitting in the balance tube that is pointing downwards? When does the valve
leak air in? All the time? or only when you shut the engine off? If so, is
this valve electrically actuated?
2. A/C Idle-Up. Again, what goes where? I have stock Mikuni carbs.
Is the setup that stops engine run-on the same circuit that raises the idle?
Or is it a choice between getting an idle-up circuit or stopping engine run-on?
I'd appreciate any help... Thanks,
John Limcangco
Manila, Philippines
79 Cressida 18RG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To: toyota-mods @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ internet
cc: (bcc: John Limcangco)
From: bconnelly @ VNET.IBM.COM @ internet
Date: 02/09/96 12:10 AM
Subject: Idle up on 2TG 18RG
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To the list,
The factory card manifolds for the 2TG/18RG have a balancing setup that leads
to the PCV and eventually to outside world via a steel valve on the CAM cover.
This leaks air into all 4 inlets at once and was used to stop the 9.8:1 (2TG)
engines running on. When fitting Webbers you usually stop up these holes
however they can be used for A/C idle up. All my 2TG's came with A/C and small
idle up circuits.
Bruce
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:23:03 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh)
Subject: Re: Ignitions
>The setup I have now is...
>
>J&S Electronice Digital SafeGuard and the HKS Twin Power Amp.
>
>I LOVE THIS !
>
>I set my timing 2-3 degrees advanced and forget it.
>The J&S unit has a knock sensor that listens to EACH cylinder and
>retards only the one that starts to knock. It's sensor hears it way
>before anyones ear ever would. I'v had no problems with this setup
>even when running 15 psi of boost.
>
>Only one note. the Toyota ingnition system needs a special coil
>installed in the J&S unit in order for the factory ECU to think it
>still has a coil connected. No problem though the unit can be ordered
About how much for a system such as this one? Any problems in extreme
temperatures? What kind of plugs are you running?
Enuf questions?
-frederick.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 10:32:51 -0600
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 20R head on 22R
To: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
That's why the compression ratio increase. The 22R (Early) uses a piston with a
Donought or raised ring at the top, increasing the compression.
- Brian
On Thu, 08 Feb 96, Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil wrote:
>My 1977 20R has flat pistons not domed
>>>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>>and later 22r's.
>
>Um, wouldn't this be the other way around, that you can't put the
>late model 22R head on the earlier block, with the late model head has
>the flat combustion chamber and the earlier block has domed pistons?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: "Allan Chen"
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:40:32 -0800
To: Gary Hong ,
Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
Cc: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
On Feb 7, 5:27pm, Gary Hong wrote:
> Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
Gary,
Call Han Motoring in Alhambra. Peter Han there used to work with the
owners of Mitcom so you could possibily get the pieces you need or they could
still fabricate one for you. Give them a call if you are interested.
Allan
===============================================================================
> Speaking of body kits .... Does anyone know where I can get the Mitcom
> body kits for an 82 Celica? I have the kit for the GT cars that include
> the Mitcom fender flare. However, due to an unfortunate accident about 2
> years ago, my entire passenger side skirt and front airdam was damage when I
> slid off the road. I want to replace the front airdam and side skirt.
> Anyone know of a place that carries them? Chris, can you get them?
>
> The company goes by the name of Mitcom or Prototype Plastics. They are/were
> based in Compton, California. The kit is called (don't laugh cuz my
> girlfriend did) the "shogun" kit :). It looks like the kit TRD used to sell
> for the Celicas/Supras - the name escapes me at the moment, but it starts
with
> a "K" and sounds like Kalemari (yeah, right... I think I'm thinking
> Kalemari cuz I'm craving for Calemari) :).
--
*******************************************************************************
Allan Chen
Silicon Graphics Inc.
Mountain View, CA
allanc@sgi.com
*******************************************************************************
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 09:46:40 PST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Brett Fraser
Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
>based in Compton, California. The kit is called (don't laugh cuz my
>girlfriend did) the "shogun" kit :). It looks like the kit TRD used to sell
>for the Celicas/Supras - the name escapes me at the moment, but it
ah ha! Im glad you mentioned the shogun bit .. And if I wasnt
in the middle of packing house id dig through my back issues of
Sport Compact Car to find the number for a company called
Anything Ltd. They retailed the "shogun" kit .. check issues
from 2-8 issues back . your sure to find one .. in fact I think
they have an advertisers index .. should make the search easy..
Maybe some kind SCC buyer out there can help you by looking?
Brett
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: SUPERCHIPS ICON, sounds great
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:10:09 -0500 (EST)
This Superchips ICON sounds great! Does anyone have any info or experience
with it? I really want to know what it will do for a 4AGE along with a TRD
header, K&N filtercharger and MSD ignition amp. Is it for real? Or is it a
waste of time?
Aly, '85 MR2
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 12:20:58 CST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re[4]: 20R head on 22R
Does anyone know the volume of the combustion chambers for both heads (20R &
22R). I thought I read in TPM that they were the same.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 20R head on 22R
Author: bwiencek@kcnet.com at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/8/96 10:32 AM
That's why the compression ratio increase. The 22R (Early) uses a piston with a
Donought or raised ring at the top, increasing the compression.
- Brian
On Thu, 08 Feb 96, Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil wrote:
>My 1977 20R has flat pistons not domed
>>>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>>and later 22r's.
>
>Um, wouldn't this be the other way around, that you can't put the
>late model 22R head on the earlier block, with the late model head has
>the flat combustion chamber and the earlier block has domed pistons?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 10:43:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
>> I think you are talking about the tall deck blocks that were made in 85
>>only.
>> there are a lot of specific parts for the year, and in 86 they 'fixed'
some
>>of
>> the problems with the 85 and went back to a lower deck height.
>That's not the story that I heard two years ago when I talked a fellow
>at TRD (I think that it was RJ) about this very subject. I *think* that
>I was told that the taller deck height applied for all 22r blocks 85 1/2
>and later.
It seems strange that Toyota would switch back to an old block design after
running a new design for only one year. I believe that once they changed
the block in 85, it stayed that way.
Regarding putting the 20R head on the post 85 22R block, this is possible
and is what LC Engineering does. LC Engineering prefers this configuration,
although I don't recall exactly why. Give them a call, the person I talked
to was relatively informative.
I assume that the taller block requires removing a lot of material from the
20R head to maintain the correct cam location and compression ratio. On the
order of 0.100 inch, or more. So it probably is not a simple swap.
PS. In some of my previous posts, I had stated that the post 85 22R block
had a shorter deck height. I got this backwards.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 13:48:55 -0600
Subject: Found Me a '75 20R head to put on my 22R
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
I have just found me a '75 20R head to put on my truck, they are looking to see
if they still have the intake. (anything Else I need besides head & intake??)
Do I need a different adapter plate to hook up a webber? Also according to the
post earlier, the best stock valves are the ones I currently have on my '84 22R.
Am I correct in assuming that I can just have the valve seats moved out the 1mm
to accomidate the valves with no problems? I am planning to keep the Downey Mid
range cam I currently have on my 22R (280 dur, 10.67mm lift ~.416in?). Also the
post recommended taking 2mm off the block and .100 !!! off the head! is this
right .100??? I was going to have it cleaned up with about a .010 or .020 cut,
but not .100, unless it will be that much better.
Any opinions??
Anyways, I am getting close to assembling what should be a fairly strong 22R and
hopefully it'll be good for another 130+k miles :-)
Thanks for all of you for your help,
- Brian
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:49:19 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: mbedford@indiana.edu (Monte Bedford)
Subject: Re: These Ignition Amps
Aly asks:
> So the bottom line is: What do the majority of people on this list
>believe to be the best ignition amp to go with? I suppose the top choices
>would now be the MSD, Accel, or Crane.
I have saved the posts from two months ago when Frank Gibbons,
Chris Myer (long, detailed), and Brian Zublin addressed this question.
Please let me know if you want a copy of this thread.
Monte
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:53:37 -0700 (MST)
From: james collins
To: bconnelly@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: FX-16 v's AE86 v's Early MR2
maybe this is why AE86's are so prevalent in Japan, they are by far the
most common car for people to modify and go race, you see parts for them
all over the place, in all the gymkhana events half the field are either
Trueno's or Levin's (AE86's in Japan). as far as the old MR2's go, some
people modify them but nowhere near as many as the AE86's. just some of
my observations.
James Collins
On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 bconnelly@VNET.IBM.COM wrote:
> Guy's,
> This is just my opinion but I have owned and raced all three cars in Australia
> in the standard and modified classes. On radials ( 'R' class tyres)the AE86 IS
> king over the AE82 and the MR2 is the SLOWEST!!!!! The reason is,it is that
> the MR2 is too heavy and the 86 handles better having almost no vices.
> The MR2 has DRAMATIC oversteer at the limit, it is too heavy in the rear.
> The 82 is fastest in a straight line and will win on long straight tracks
> because it is slightly lighter. If the speed of the circuit exceeds 185Km/hr
> down the main straight then 82 will hit an air wall and the MR2 will eventually
> pass it. In tight tracks the 82 handles badly because the frame flexes, they
> fixed this on the 92 but did it at the expense of weight. For all round work
> the 86 is best, followed by MR2 then AE82. Please understand this is my
> opinion and these cars may have different weights in the US. However the last
> of the 2 litre MR2's just leaves all the other under 2 litre Toyotas for
> dead.
> Bruce
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:44:50 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: mbedford@indiana.edu (Monte Bedford)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 20R head on 22R
>My 1977 20R has flat pistons not domed
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: 20R head on 22R
>Author: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer) at INTERNET-HUB
>Date: 2/7/96 9:00 PM
>
>>This subject comes up from time to time and I think that it's probably a
>>good idea to remind people that this switch is not possible for 85 1/2
>>and later 22r's.
>
>Um, wouldn't this be the other way around, that you can't put the
>late model 22R head on the earlier block, with the late model head has
>the flat combustion chamber and the earlier block has domed pistons?
>
>Beth, what does Jeff say?
>
>Chris
___________________
Hi,
Just trying to be helpful here by pulling something from my library on this
particular thread, adding some detail to what Chris Myer is saying, I
believe. Beth, if I may quote your December message, as follows? ... Thank
you.
Btw, I also have your August post in which Jeff lays out his
recommendations--the best years on all the parts, etc.--20R/22R. Anyone
want a copy? Or a copy of my whole 20R/22R thread file?
Monte
___________________
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 8:26:14 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
Organization: UNC
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: 22R w/20R head article
X-mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.00 MHS to SMTP Gateway
Sender: owner-toyota-mods@CyberAuto.Com
Precedence: bulk
[snip, snip]
Let me try to clarify just a bit. The 22R engine comes with flat top
pistons and the bottom of the head is flat also. The 20R engine has dome
shaped pistons and the 20R head is designed to accommodate the dome
shaped pistons. If you change just the head to a 20R on a post 85 22R
motor you will have flat pistons with a head designed for dome shaped
pistons. This leaves you with an engine with LESS compression than you
had before. To get the maximum benefit from this modification, you must
also change to dome top pistons. In this case, you have a 22R block, 20R
pistons, and a 20R head which does give you more compression and
horsepower than the 22R motor. By just changing the head and nothing
else, you would actually be worse off than you were to begin with.
Actually, the 20R head is the best flowing head that Toyota has made. To
get extremely specific, the 75 20R head is the best. (according to TRD
and the late Toy Store). There is a factory stamp on the inside of the
front water jacket on these motors. Unfortunately, they and EXTREMELY
difficult to find.
Beth C. Williams, Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
CB# 2100; 105 Hanes Hall
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
Fax: (919)962-3349
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:21:02 +1100 (EST)
From: Justin Simpson
To: Monte Bedford
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: These Ignition Amps
Monte, those posts would be worth a look as i am presently trying to find
an ignition system for my turbo injected 18RG.
Thanks in advance
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Justen Simpson simpson@lake.canberra.edu.au
CRC for Freshwater Ecology, Uni of Canberra, Australia
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Monte Bedford wrote:
> Aly asks:
>
> > So the bottom line is: What do the majority of people on this list
> >believe to be the best ignition amp to go with? I suppose the top choices
> >would now be the MSD, Accel, or Crane.
>
> I have saved the posts from two months ago when Frank Gibbons,
> Chris Myer (long, detailed), and Brian Zublin addressed this question.
> Please let me know if you want a copy of this thread.
>
> Monte
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:49:52 -0500
From: mdowe@wchat.on.ca
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: LS 400 starter
>Mike Dowe questioned where the starter was in a Lexue LS400
>
>On the 4.0 Liter V-8 isn't the starter in the valley under the intake
>manifold...
Correct.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 20:06:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Buhr
Subject: Re: intake plumbing and intercooler plumbing [GENERAL]
To: Toyota Supras Mailing List ,
On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Michael Kronvold wrote:
> On the Celica All-Trac Turbos, they have a hood scoop. I was curious while at the dealer and opened the hood and it hit me like a ton of bricks. The intercooler is DIRECTLY under that scoop on top of everything. This sounds like a GREAT way to improve the intercooler efficiency, shorter plumbing (might be some tighter bends tho). How radical would this be to do to a supra? I saw a hood off a '92 the other day for $100... I hope it's still there this weekend. a "spare" intercooler won't be cheap tho.
My brother's RX7 Turbo ('87) has the same intercooler arrangement. I
don't believe it's that great, since it sits right on top the engine! The
engine gets warm, heat rises, the intercooler gets hot, and doesn't cool
the air much anymore. Front-mounted intercoolers are the way to go, IMO.
But you're right that the longer intake plumbing does have
disadvantages. The turbocharger has to compress all the air in the
intake system, from the turbo through the piping through the intercooler
through the throttle body through the intake manifold finally into the
combustion chamber. That does increase both turbo lag and boost spiking.
> Oh, Water misted into the combustion process, anyone have and practical knowledge of this? P51 mustangs used to do this so they could run at red line for hours and hours on end.
Spearco makes intercoolers and water sprayers. They have a "Turbo
Water Injection System":
Now, from Spearco, the water injection experts, a water injection
system designed specifically for factory turbo cars. This system
reduces air charge temperature on turbocharged engines, with or
without intercoolers, and increases air density resulting in
additional horsepower and torque. On engines equipped with
detonation sensor controlled ignition systems it will maintain
maximum spark advance even on low octane fuels.
Features include:
- Compact .4 gallon aluminum reservoir with three mounting positions
for universal placement in the engine compartment.
- Injects water upstream or downstream of the turbo
- Pump is controlled by an adjustable, O.E. quality pressure switch
- Kit includes 3 different size, specially designed injection nozzles
Part number 980 Turbo Water Inject System: $146.00
They also sell the "Intercooler Optimizer - Spray Cooling System for
Intercoolers". This system has a .95 gallon tank, they claim an
intercooler performance improvement of 25%-35%, 45 degrees to 65 degrees
F. It uses a 12V pump & motor to supply 19 psi water to a wide angle
spray nozzle. They're triggered by a boost pressure switch. Kit
includes instructions and one of four different nozzle mount methods.
Price: $120.
BTW, I had the carburetor recall and a carburetor overhaul performed
on my 4AC '87 Corolla. It cost more than I wanted to spend, $280, but
the car runs a LOT better now, almost perfectly (tiny bit of hesitation
when the engine's cold).
Aaron B.
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:16:45 +1100
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bilzilla@zeta.org.au (Bill Sherwood)
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak & stuff.
Hiya Guys & Gals,
With all the kefufle over the Jacobs ignition box I
couldn't resist mentioning a device that was sold here a few years ago that
was rather embaressing for certain people ......
One of Australia's top racing car drivers is 'Peter Brock', and
unfortunately for him he became involved with a 'new-age scientist'. The end
result was that during race meetings Peter's wife was waving a crystal she
wore around her neck over all the tyres, etc that were due to go onto the
race car during the race, and all of Peter's cars had a 'new-age' (Not
4age!) device sitting on the back shelf called an 'Energy Polariser' The
gadget was supposed to 'align the molecules of the metals' or some such
bullsh*t to make everything run smoother and without vibration, etc. He
actually sold these things to the public, and people actually bought them
..... (There's one born every minute!) A current affairs team (news
reporters) bought one of these 'Energy Polarisers' and opened it up - it was
full of green jelly, a couple of bits of copper wire, and some other crap
that I can't remember.
A short time after that his major sponsor, General Motor Holden,
dropped him from a great height. He's back with them now, but I have a
sneaky suspicion that his contract forbids things like, "full moon, bats
wings, black cats, and F**KING ENERGY POLARISERS ......" :) Hehehehehe.
Bruce Connelly might remember more than I do about that period, so
if you read this Bruce please add your bit. (of dirt ;)
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From: aly abulkheir
Subject: SUPERCHIPS
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 21:57:52 -0500 (EST)
Hey everyone,
I just got off the phone with the Peter at Superchips. I spoke to
him about the Superchips Icon for the MK1 MR2 4AGE. Here's what he said:
4-wire hookup with directions included
ICON works with timing only, regular superchips can do other adjustments
About 12 Horsepower claimed increase
Retail price: $295
If anyone has any experience with this product or any thoughts,
please comment.
Thanks,
Aly, '85 MR2
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:35:42 +1100
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bilzilla@zeta.org.au (Bill Sherwood)
Subject: Re: Water injection for turbo's.
Hiya,
Aaron Buhr wrote -
>> Oh, Water misted into the combustion process, anyone have and
practical knowledge of this? P51 mustangs used to do this so they could run
at red line for hours and hours on end.
I do have some experience in this area. _Sort of_. The aircraft I fly at the
moment is a Swearengine Metro 2 with Garret TPE-331 (-3 & -10 versions), and
it is equiped with water/methanol injection. The water/meth is used to
increase power on takeoff on short runways where the plane is heavy and/or
the day is hot. (or the pilot is nervous! :) To give you some actual
figures, when I turn on the water/meth system at 800 ft/lbs torque (That is
how power is measured on Metro's), the _least_ increase in power I've seen
is 250 ft/lbs, ie, about a 30% increase in power. That was on a hot (38 deg
C) day with the injection system giving it's minimum specified flow rate. I
have also seen the water/meth injection system on another plane (this one
spends its life in the Australian desert, so it has the injection pumps
turned right up to give maximum boost) do some amazing things - The outside
air temp was down around 15 deg C, and when I hit the water the torques
jumped up from 800 ft/lbs to about 1500 ft/lbs! - an 87% increase!!
(Probably damn near put the fire out, too. ;)
I think there are two reasons for the big difference in power
increases - 1. The difference in pump outputs, as I described above, and 2.
Ambient temperature. From my somewhat incomplete understanding of physics, I
feel that the water/meth would 'absorb' more energy (heat) from the incoming
air if the air was cold, and vice-versa.
The water/meth is mixed in a ratio of anywhere from 40/60 to 60/40,
but 50/50 should be fine. The reason for the methanol is two fold. At the
altitudes we fly, it is possible for the 16 US gallon tank that holds the
water/meth to start to freeze, so the methanol is added to reduce the
freezing point of the fluid. The other reason, I am told, is because the
methanol does most of the work in increasing the power - the water &
methanol cools the air and the methanol adds the power. (I have heard of a
Metro in Mexico that was low on water/meth, so the crew added AVGAS
(aircraft fuel) to the tank. They turned the system on, and apparently two
HUGE flames came out of the back of the engines and nearly burnt the tail
off!!! Heheheh, but I digress ....)
To give possible proof that the methanol does most of the work, when I fly
through rain the temperatures in the engines will drop, eg, from 520 deg C
down to perhaps 480 deg C, so if this was a steady state then I could
simply push the throttle up so the temps were back up to normal and
therefore increase the torques above what they used to be. (The torques
don't change much in rain...) So this means that water just reduces the
temps, but doesn't change the power that much - you have to increase the
fuel flow to get a usefull benefit. This benefit is acheived by simply
adding methanol.
"Don't try this at home without parental supervision!" And I mean
it! Methanol is a carcenogen - it can give you cancer with prolonged
exposure to the skin! So be careful if you try it.
How much to add? I've had discussions on this with Matti Kalalahti,
in Finland, and we figure that the Metro is using water/meth at about the
same rate as the engine is burning fuel. (The Metro sucks about 900 litres
of fuel an hour on takeoff - 240 US gall/hr!) So if you can figure out how
much fuel you use under full load, then I'd start adding the water/meth at
about half that rate and build it up from there until the performance
increase isn't noticable. (Try it on hot/cold days, too)
Why haven't I tried it? My 3TG rally car is still in bits, but it IS
getting water/meth injection added. I may also add a water spray for the
intercooler - I believe that there are useful benefits to be had there.
(Have you seen the adds for the 'magic meat defrosting trays'? They are just
a bit of aluminium painted black! Get an ice cube and put it on a thick
chunk of alloy and whatch it disapear quicker than on one of those supposed
'magic' trays! The point is that alloy conducts heat like you wouldn't
believe ....)
Hope this has been of interest,
Billzilla ..... Grrrrrrr.....
P.S. I don't think the P-51 could runs at red-line for hours & hours for two
reasons - like most fighters it hasn't got enough fuel, and from memory the
Allisons they used had a 'Combat Power' setting that could be (ab)used for a
limit of 5 minutes. :)
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To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Jacobs Energy Pak & stuff.
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 14:36:38 +1100
From: Peter Mejak
>A current affairs team (news
>reporters) bought one of these 'Energy Polarisers' and opened it up - it was
>full of green jelly, a couple of bits of copper wire, and some other crap
>that I can't remember.
They also did a before/after test drive of a car fitted with one of
these devices (by local car "guru" Peter Wherrett). Found no
appreciable difference between the same car when fitted or not fitted
with the device. Funny 'bout that ......
Strange thing is, I think the VL's sold with this device now command
higher prices than normal due to the controversy it created. Or else
they sell for less for the same reason :-) (can't remember which).
Cheers,
Peter.
======================================================
Peter Mejak, HP Response Centre, Melbourne, Australia
peterm@aus.hp.com
======================================================
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:16:48 -0600 (CST)
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: minkor19@iadfw.net (Bryan Carlson)
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name :Bryan Carlson
Location :Dallas Texas
Model :1991 Toyota MR2 turbo
Engine :3s-gte (?that is correct I believe)
Mods :I have just purchased the car so nothing yet
email :minkor19@iadfw.net
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From: Gary Hong
To: bfraser@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 23:20:03 PST
Thanks Brett!!!
I'll take a look at the ads in scc.
Gary
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:16:54 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Don't hate me just because...
...I have a (faxed) copy of the TRD Japan catalog, MR2 section!
(Look at Geoff Seeley and the other MR2 gurus drooling! I feel like an
attractive girl at a tailhook convention! I hope my virtue isn't
compromised!)
3 subsections--Street, Gymkhana, and Race. 17 pages, just for this one
car. Everything right down to roll bars, pedal covers, steering
wheels...Wait, what's this? A TEMS-style electronically adjustable
suspension setup? Ooohhhhh!
Prices still in Yen, need to do a little bit of translation. I am having
the Cusco (sp?) catalog sent too. Soon I'll have the HKS master catalog.
With a prayer, maybe even the GReddy Master catalog.
More soon...
Chris
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:13:52 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh)
Subject: Re: Starlet (body kits)
>Maybe some kind SCC buyer out there can help you by looking?
Hey Gary, they number to Anything Ltd. is (310) 477-7803 or 1-800-445-4048.
Hope this helps.
-frederick.
'85 Celica GTS Convertible
"CULTURE"
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 9:20:18 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: My .02 on the 20R head/22R block mod (long)
Ok guys, I think I have enough of my info together to add my comments to
this thread. Here goes---
First let me start off with some general info about some comments have
been made throughout this most recent thread. Yes, Chris was right when
he said you couldn't put the late model 22R head on the earlier block,
since the late model head has the flat combustion chamber and the earlier
block has domed pistons. But, a 20R head may be put on any 22R block
regardless of year, it just depends on how much work and money you want
to put into the project. I'll use my particular truck for example. I
have an 85 4x4 (Fuel Injected, SR5). It is currently set up with the
following:
- 81 22R block (with 2mm taken off)
- 75 20R head (with .100 taken off)
- 81 22R pistons (domed top)
- 77 complete timing kit
- 85 valves with 5 angle valve job, new valve seats and bronze racing
guides (also the back side of valves are polished
- 22R head gasket
-85 EFI stock cam
-85 EFI
We had to modify the head to make it work with my fuel injection. We did
this mainly because I already had the fuel injection and I didn't want to
spend the additional money for carbs. I think this engine is a good
example of what can be done, again depending on your willingness to
experiment and the depth of your pocketbook. Also FYI, it is equipped
with dual Flowmaster exhaust and the catalyc (sp?) converter has been
gutted with a pipe running straight through. You may not want to go for
this mod unless you have inside track in getting inspections.
Anyway some more comments. Actually the blocks that were manufactured
through 8/84 are the taller blocks. The ones manufactured after that are
SHORTER. You can compare the timing chain from each year to see the
difference. Thus comes the recommendation to shave 2mm off the earlier
model block. Another thing to consider, if you have a 22R carbureted
engine, the fuel pump may or may not the on the side of the head. If
your fuel pump is on the side of the head, you have to find a 20R that
also has the fuel pump on the side of the head. (This is not very hard,
just something else to look for.)
I also wanted to answer some of Brian's specific questions about his
project.
>I have just found me a '75 20R head to put on my truck, they are looking
to see
>if they still have the intake. (anything Else I need besides head &
intake??)
You don't need the intake from the 20R, use your 22R intake and port the
head to match.
>Do I need a different adapter plate to hook up a webber?
Yes, you do need an adapter plate.
> Also according to the post earlier, the best stock valves are the ones
I currently have on my '84 22R.
>Am I correct in assuming that I can just have the valve seats moved out
the 1mm
>to accommodate the valves with no problems?
You don't need to "move" the valve seats, port the head around the valves
and intake to accommodate the larger valves.
> I am planning to keep the Downey Midrange cam I currently have on my
22R (280 dur, 10.67mm lift >~.416in?).
This cam will work. You will need an adjustable cam gear to correct your
timing.
>Also the post recommended taking 2mm off the block and .100 !!! off the
head! is this
>right .100??? I was going to have it cleaned up with about a .010 or
.020 cut,
>but not .100, unless it will be that much better.
What year is your block? If you have a block made after 8/84, you don't
necessarily have to take the 2mm off, if the block is from before 8/84
taking the 2mm off will make it the same height as the newer model.
There are some more questions you have to ask also regarding the amount
to shave off.
1) has the head ever been cut before? You have to remember that the
more you cut off now, the less you will have to play with later if you
ever blow the head gasket and warp the head and need to shave off to
straighten it back out. Also, you need to set the head on the engine and
turn it over by hand to make sure that the pistons will not hit the head
before you put it all back together. The more you shave off of both (or
either of these) these increases the likelihood that the pistons will
hit. My truck does not hit, but is is very close. The .100 off the head
will make a significant difference, that is what Jeff usually has his
machine shop do for his performance rebuilds. It is just a matter of
finding the happy medium between not having the pistons hit and getting
the maximum compression out of the engine.
Also, I need to redeem myself, Jeff told me last night that I was
incorrect in my December post that Monte reposted yesterday. I said that
for maximum benefit, use a 22R block, 20R pistons, and 20R head. That
should be older model 22R pistons instead of 20R pistons.
I think that is all for now. If anyone has any questions, or needs
further info, just let me know. I will try to answer, or put you in
touch with Jeff who, as he put it last night, "could write a book on 20
and 22R's".
I wonder if that was a hint Chris?
Beth C. Williams
Automated Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:52:51 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: 22R pistons
>- 81 22R pistons (domed top)
Now that Beth has gratiously given us her and Jeff's knowledge,
forgive my mech. ignorance here BUT I was looking at the cost
of a new set of 81 22R pistons and was AMAZED at the high
cost and was wondering if it were possible to use "used" pistons
in my motor, a friend of mine say no I can't. Is he correct ??
If so, enlighten me and explain to me why not so that just maybe
I won't be as stupid tommorrow as I was when I woke up today !
thanks ...
- jack
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:36:39 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 22R pistons
We use used pistons all the time (especially for just regular rebuilds).
The pistons that are in my truck were used. I would think it would be ok
as long as you couldn't see something wrong with them. Now if they are
scarred or bent or something like that, then Jeff will make them buy a
new piston. Any other experiences out there??
Beth C. Williams
Automated Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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From: Gary Hong
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: est. horsepower
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 10:58:26 PST
Does anyone have a chart or formula for estimating the hp of a car at a
given speed. In particular, top speed and horse power. It doesn't have
to be exact as I know there are various variables that can be taken into
account for losses and such.
Thanks,
Gary
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From: Gary Hong
To: toy4x4@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 22R pistons
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 11:02:35 PST
From: toy4x4@ro.com
>>- 81 22R pistons (domed top)
>
>Now that Beth has gratiously given us her and Jeff's knowledge,
>forgive my mech. ignorance here BUT I was looking at the cost
>of a new set of 81 22R pistons and was AMAZED at the high
>cost and was wondering if it were possible to use "used" pistons
>in my motor, a friend of mine say no I can't. Is he correct ??
Why? People use used pistons all the time. Of course it would be much
better to use new ones. As long as the pistons look sound, then it should
be no problems.
Gary
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 11:02:37 PST
From: geoff@softy.softwords.bc.ca (Geoff Seeley)
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Don't hate me just because...
> ...I have a (faxed) copy of the TRD Japan catalog, MR2 section!
> (Look at Geoff Seeley and the other MR2 gurus drooling! I feel like an
> attractive girl at a tailhook convention! I hope my virtue isn't
> compromised!)
I believe I already have a copy of this (heaven forbid I don't have every
*shread* of MR2 related material on this planet :-)
Kostas Chryssos (Greece) was kind enough to scan me the catalog but I haven't
put it on the MR2 Web site due to space limitations... I have however, gone
through each page and pulled out all the information I could. If people want,
I could post it tonight.
> 3 subsections--Street, Gymkhana, and Race. 17 pages, just for this one
> car. Everything right down to roll bars, pedal covers, steering
> wheels...Wait, what's this? A TEMS-style electronically adjustable
> suspension setup? Ooohhhhh!
Yes, and don't forget the fuel cells and special ECU's, etc!!
> Prices still in Yen, need to do a little bit of translation. I am having
> the Cusco (sp?) catalog sent too. Soon I'll have the HKS master catalog.
> With a prayer, maybe even the GReddy Master catalog.
_Now_ I'm drooling again! :-) There are all sorts of MR2 items only sold in
Japan, dual exhaust systems, aero-kits, neat air-intake funnels, etc...
NOW what we need is a contact in Japan that can GET US this sort of stuff!!!
Speak any Japanese Chris?? :-)
Geoff
'91 MR2t, 163,800km
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From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 15:15:37 CST
To: toy4x4@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re[2]: 22R pistons
Just be sure to check the clearances according to the manual.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 22R pistons
Author: Gary Hong at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/9/96 11:02 AM
From: toy4x4@ro.com
>>- 81 22R pistons (domed top)
>
>Now that Beth has gratiously given us her and Jeff's knowledge,
>forgive my mech. ignorance here BUT I was looking at the cost
>of a new set of 81 22R pistons and was AMAZED at the high
>cost and was wondering if it were possible to use "used" pistons
>in my motor, a friend of mine say no I can't. Is he correct ??
Why? People use used pistons all the time. Of course it would be much
better to use new ones. As long as the pistons look sound, then it should
be no problems.
Gary
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From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 15:29:22 CST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re: est. horsepower
This web page has the formula for the aero and friction hp and many other auto
and EFI info. There is also a page dedicated to EFI
http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling/aero.html
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: est. horsepower
Author: Gary Hong at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/9/96 10:58 AM
Does anyone have a chart or formula for estimating the hp of a car at a
given speed. In particular, top speed and horse power. It doesn't have
to be exact as I know there are various variables that can be taken into
account for losses and such.
Thanks,
Gary
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:37:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Danny Yoo
Subject: Re: est. horsepower
To: Gary Hong
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, Gary Hong wrote:
> Does anyone have a chart or formula for estimating the hp of a car at a
> given speed. In particular, top speed and horse power. It doesn't have
> to be exact as I know there are various variables that can be taken into
> account for losses and such.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
>
Go to http://www.dsm.org (Talon Web Page)
They have a little thing where you enter vehicle weight and trap speed OR
1/4 mile time to estimate HP.
------
Danny Yoo
,%"`^`"%,._.,%"`^`"%,._.,%"`^`"%,._.,%"`^`"%,
>>dannyyoo@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca<<
>>dannyyoo@unix.infoserve.net<<
"%.,_,.%"^`^"%.,_,.%"^`^"%.,_,.%"^`^"%.,_,.%"
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Subject: TRD Japan's MR2 (SW20) Parts List (1993.6)
From: geoff@softwords.bc.ca (Geoff Seeley)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 20:15:51
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Here's my transcribed list from the TRD Japan's 1993 catalog (Perhaps you have
a later version Chris? If you do, send me a copy please!).
I can guarantee it's perfect and I didn't include the prices, but all other
information I could gleem from it is in there.
There is some really neat stuff in this list so if anyone has any contacts in
Japan, then speak up!
PS. This list will appear on the MR2 Web site in the near future.
PPS. This list is formatted for more than 80 columns, so resize your window :-)
Geoff
'91 MR2t, 163,900km
--- cut here ---
-------------------------------------------
TRD Sports Parts: SW20 - Toyota MR2, 1993.6
-------------------------------------------
Glove:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
08795-SP006-M/L Trial Glove (RED) 2 -
08795-SP007-M/L Trial Glove (BLUE) 2 -
08795-SP008-M/L Racing Glove (RED) 2 FIA
08795-SP009-M/L Racing Glove (BLUE) 2 FIA
Steering:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
45111-SP161 Wheel, steering 1 360mm, Type-C
45111-SP171 Wheel, steering 1 360mm, Type-C
45111-SP181 Wheel, steering 1 360mm, Type-C
45113-SP001 Hub, steering 1 -
45131-SP001 Button, horn 1 Type-C
Switch:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
80403-SP001-15 Switch, circuit breaker - 15A
80403-SP001-20 Switch, circuit breaker - 20A
80403-SP001-25 Switch, circuit breaker - 25A
80404-SP001 Switch, breaker - (ON-ON)
80405-SP001 Cover, switch - 80404-SP001
00250-SP026 Relay, circuit breaker - 12V 200A
84480-SP001 Switch Assy, main - (ON-ON) DC30V 30A
84450-SP001 Switch Assy, ignition - (ON-OFF) DC30V 25A
84650-SP001 Switch Assy, windshield wiper - (ON-ON) DC30V 25A
84310-14010 Switch Assy, turn signal - (ON-OFF-ON) DC30V 25A
84510-SP001 Switch Assy, starter - (ON-OFF-ON) DC30V 20A
80407-AE901 Switch Kit, circuit breaker 1 -
Gauge:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
83270-SP021 Tachometer Assy, engine 1 -
83410-SP011 Gauge Assy, water temp. receivr 1 -
83580-SP011 Gauge Assy, oil temp. receiver 1 -
83420-16010 Gauge Assy, temp. sender 1 83410-SP011, 83580-SP011, M16x1.5
83420-16020 Gauge Assy, temp. sender 1 83410-SP011, 83580-SP011, PT1/8
83510-SP011 Gauge Assy, oil press. receiver 1 -
00250-SP015 Fitting Set, oil pressure - -
Wheel:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
42610-SP011 Size: 15 x 6.5 JJ, Offset: 35 - PCD=114.3, Hub Size=60, Holes=5, SW20(F)
42610-SP012 Size: 15 x 7.5 JJ, Offset: 35 - PCD=114.3, Hub Size=60, Holes=5, SW20(R)
42610-SP021 Size: 16 x 7 JJ, Offset: 34 - PCD=114.3, Hub Size=60, Holes=5, SW20(F)
42610-SP024 Size: 16 x 8 JJ, Offset: 37 - PCD=114.3, Hub Size=60, Holes=5, SW20(R)
Wheel Spare Parts:
42621-SP001 Nut, Center Cap - -
42624-SP001 Ring, Wheel Cap, Plate - -
42680-SP001 Valve Assy, Air - -
09183-SP001 Wrench, Wheel Cap - -
42638-SP011 Nut, Hub - -
Cylinder Head/Gasket:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
11115-ST651 Gasket, cylinder head 1 t=1.2 Metal, 3S-GTE
11115-SW201 Gasket, cylinder head 1 t=0.8 Metal, 3S-GE
Fuel:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
00001-SP045 Fuel tank 1 30 l, ATLSU108
23100-SP011 Pump Assy, fuel 1 0.3kg/cm^2
23210-SP001 Pump Assy, fuel 1 2.55kg/cm^2
23300-SP011 Filter Assy, fuel 1 -
00250-SP052 Collector tank, fuel 1 1 l
44730-10010 Check valve 1 -
00001-EO400-06 Hose 8 -
95333-08060 Hose 1 -
00250-SP038 Breather Hose 1 -
00001-E9815-06 Union 1 -
20302-ST651 Union 1 -
90430-12026 Gasket 2 -
90460-18002 Hose clamp 5 -
00001-E8001-06 Hose end 4 0 degree
00001-E8045-06 Hose end 2 45 degree
00001-E8090-06 Hose end 8 90 degree
00001-E7001-06 Hose end 1 0 degree
00001-E7091-06 Hose end 1 -
Insulator:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
12361-SW211 Insulator, engine mounting FR 1 3S-GE
12361-SW201 Insulator, engine mounting FR 1 3S-GTE
12362-SW211 Insulator, engine mounting RH 1 3S-GE
12362-SW201 Insulator, engine mounting RH 1 3S-GTE
12371-SW211 Insulator, engine mounting RR 1 3S-GE
12371-SW201 Insulator, engine mounting RR 1 3S-GTE
12372-SW211 Insulator, engine mounting FR 1 3S-GE
12372-SW201 Insulator, engine mounting FR 1 3S-GTE
10210-SW211 Engine mounting set 1 3S-GE
10210-SW201 Engine mounting set 1 3S-GTE
Ignition:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
10901-SP032-22 Plug, spark 4 K-22
10901-SP032-24 Plug, spark 4 K-24
10901-SP041-27 Plug, spark 4 K-27
10901-SP041-29 Plug, spark 4 K-29
10901-SP041-31 Plug, spark 4 K-31
Engine Control Unit:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
89660-SP051 Computer, engine control 1 -
80901-SP001 Software set (3.5inch) 1 EP-ROM DATA
80901-SP002 Software set (5inch) 1 EP-ROM DATA
80902-SP001 EP-ROM 1
82233-SW201 Wire, computer 1 91.12~
82233-SW202 Wire, computer 1 89.10~91.12
Exhaust:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
17510-AE801-## Silencer, exhaust 2 -
17400-SW201 Pipe Set, exhaust 1 -
Clutch:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
31210-ST851 Cover Assy, clutch 1 3S-GE, 710kg
31250-ST851 Disc Assy, clutch 1 3S-GE, Sports Facing Type
31250-ST862 Disc Assy, clutch 1 3S-GE, Metal Facing Type
31210-SW251 Cover Assy, clutch 1 3S-GTE, 950kg
31250-SW251 Disc Assy, clutch 1 3S-GTE, Sports Facing Type
31250-SWB62 Disc Assy, clutch 1 3S-GTE, Metal Facing Type
31250-SWA61 Disc Assy, clutch 1 3S-GTE, Metal Facing Type
Differential:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
41301-ST801 Case Sub-Assy Diff, LSD 1 3S-GE
41301-SW202 Case Sub-Assy Diff, LSD 1 3S-GTE (89.10~91.12)
41301-SW211 Case Sub-Assy Diff, LSD 1 3S-GTE (91.12~)
40101-AW101 Shim 1 t=0.1, 3S-GE(41301-ST801)
40101-AW102 Shim 1 t=0.2, 3S-GE(41301-ST801)
40107-AW101 Repair Kit, LSD 1 3S-GE(41301-ST801)
40101-SW201 Shim 1 t=0.1, 3S-GTE(41301-SW202, SW211)
40107-AW111 Repair Kit, LSD 1 3S-GTE(41301-SW202, SW211)
Shock Absorber:
SW20
(91.12~) F R
------------------------
3S-GE 152/27 198/41
3S-GTE 140/40 220/45
Street:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48511-SW292 Front, Lmax=516.5mm, Lmin=355.5mm, 152/52kg, 15.8 2 (89.10~91.12)
48531-SW292 Rear, Lmax=553mm, Lmin=373mm, 200/72kg, 15.8 2 (89.10~91.12)
Gymkhana:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48531-SW282 Rear, Lmax=531mm, Lmin=375mm, 250/80kg, 20.5 2 -
48511-SW261 Front, Lmax=518mm, Lmin=357.5mm, 160/60kg, 20.0 2 (89.10~91.12)
48531-SW261 Rear, Lmax=553mm, Lmin=397mm, 260/95kg, 24.0 2 (89.10~91.12)
48511-SW262 Front, Lmax=505mm, Lmin=375mm, 210/45kg, 20.0 2 -
48531-SW262 Rear, Lmax=530mm, Lmin=397mm, 275/70kg, 25.0 2 -
Shell Case:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48021-SW251 Front RH 1 91.1~
48029-SW251 Front LH 1 91.1~
48508-SW251 Rear RH 1 91.1~
48509-SW251 Rear LH 1 91.1~
Coil Spring:
SW20 (kg/m)
(91.12~) F R
--------------------
3S-GE 2.3 3.6
3S-GTE 2.5 3.8
Gymkhana:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48131-SW261-28 Front 2 K=2.8, 89.10~91.12
48231-SW261-50 Rear 2 K-5.0, 89.10~91.12
48131-SW251-30 Front 2 K=3.0, 91.12~
48231-SW251-58 Front 2 K=5.8, 91.12~
48131-SW211 Front 2 K=3.0, 20mm
48231-SW211 Rear 2 K=4.8, 15mm
Adjustable Height System
Shock Absorber:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48510-SW233 Front RH 1 Lmax=375mm,Lmin=250mm,340/110kg
48520-SW233 Front LH 1 Lmax=375mm,Lmin=250mm,340/110kg
48530-SW232 Rear RH 1 Lmax=450mm,Lmin=320mm,410/110kg
48540-SW232 Rear LH 1 Lmax=450mm,Lmin=320mm,410/110kg
Coil Spring:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48131-SP012-06 Spring, coil 2 K=6.0,l=143.5,70,860
48131-SP012-07 Spring, coil 2 K=7.0,l=138.5,70,880
48131-SP012-08 Spring, coil 2 K=8.0,l=135.0,70,920
48131-SP012-10 Spring, coil 2 K=10.0,l=130.0,70,1010
48131-SP012-12 Spring, coil 2 K=12.0,l=126.0,70,1130
48131-SP012-14 Spring, coil 2 K=14.0,l=124.5,70,1240
48131-SP012-16 Spring, coil 2 K=16.0,l=122.5,70,1030
48131-SP012-18 Spring, coil 2 K=18.0,l=121.0,75,1210
48131-SP012-20 Spring, coil 2 K=20.0,l=120.0,75,1300
48131-SP012-22 Spring, coil 2 K=22.0,l=119.0,75,1350
48131-SP012-25 Spring, coil 2 K=25.0,l=118.0,80,1210
48131-SP012-28 Spring, coil 2 K=28.0,l=117.0,80,1320
48680-SW201 Support assy, front suspension 2 Front
48471-SP013 Seat, spring upper 2 Front
48472-SP011-55 Seat, spring lower 2 Front, M55x2
40815-SP011-55 Retainer, spring lower seat 2 Front, M55x2
48830-17030 Link assy, FR stabilizer 2 -
48750-SW251 Support assy, rear suspension 2 Rear
40846-SP001 Spacer, spring seat rear 2 Rear
48044-SP011 Seat, spring upper 2 Rear
48472-SP011-55 Seat, spring lower 2 M55x2
40815-SP011-55 Retainer, spring lower seat 2 M55x2
Bushing:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
48609-SW251 Support assy, front suspension 2 -
48750-SW251 Support assy, rear suspension 2 -
48654-SW251 Bush, front suspension lower arm 2 89.10~91.12
48654-AEA51 Bush, front suspension lower arm 2 91.12~
48674-SW251 Cushion, strut bar front 4 89.10~91.12
48674-SW261 Cushion, strut bar front 2 91.12
48715-SW251 Bush, rear strut rod 2 -
48725-SW251 Bush, rear suspension arm No.1 2 -
48787-SW251 Cushion, strut bar rear 4 -
Suspension Bushing Set:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
40862-SW251 Suspension bush set 1 89.10~91.12
40862-SW261 Suspension bush set 1 91.12~
Brake Pad:
89.10~91.12:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
04491-SW201 Pad, brake front 1 DS-11
04492-AW101 1 DS-11
04492-AW151 Pad, brake rear 1 3410F
04492-SW261 1 SP2
91.12~:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
04491-AE001 1 DS-11
04491-SW261 Pad, brake front 1 SP2
04492-AW101 1 DS-11
04492-AW151 Pad, brake rear 1 3410F
04492-SW261 1 SP2
Brake Hose:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
40709-SW252 Hose set, brake 1 -
Body Parts:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
68111-SW202 Acrylic Glass, front window RH 1 t=5.0
68112-SW202 Acrylic Glass, front window LH 1 t=5.0
00001-SP017 Pin, hood lock 2 -
00250-SP014 Strap, hood lock 1 -
00001-SP046 Fire extinguisher - Halon Gas
80407-AE901 Switch kit, circuit breaker 1 -
Roll Bar:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
61190-SW201 Roll Bar Set 1 40.20mm
Seat:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
71100-SP002-01 Seat assy, driver side 1 Black/Grey
71100-SP002-02 Seat assy, driver side 1 Stripe
71100-TA001 Seat assy, driver side 1 Yellow
71100-TA001-A Seat assy, driver side 1 Black
71110-SW251 Rail assy, driver seat 1
Seat Belt:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
00001-SP052 Seat Belt 1 4 points, Made by Sabelt
00001-SP034 Supporting Belt 1 00001-SP0521
Shift Knob:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
33504-SP002 Knob sub-assy, shift lever 1 M12x1.25
Transport Hook:
Part Number Description Qty. Remarks
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~
51960-SP002 Transport Hook, FR 1 N2
51960-SP001 Transport Hook, RR 1 N2
--- cut here ---
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 18:30:13 PST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Brett Fraser
Subject: Yeesh .. helloo bad luck..
It would seem me and mine just cant keep our cars on the road, but in the very
least we solved my roomies rev'ing problems in his 87 MR2 NA..
(I wrote my car off a month ago, my brother last week, and my roomie today)
He was doing 50kmh along a straight dry stretch of road on a nice warm (-1?0Cel)
day .. car in front and in behind .. hit some black ice .. started doin 360's
rear end hit a ditch, car flipped and slid along on the roof ..
He now owns the first convertable Mr2 .. amazingly enough he walked away ..
swearing like hell .. but walked away, the paramedics were amazed..
I hope this streak of bad luck ends before I fly off on the 21st..
Brett "ah hell, here we go again" Fraser
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:11:34 -0800
From: squelch@ix.netcom.com (John Welch )
Subject: Re: Don't hate me just because...
To: geoff@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Geoff Seeley)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
You wrote:
>
>> ...I have a (faxed) copy of the TRD Japan catalog, MR2 section!
>> (Look at Geoff Seeley and the other MR2 gurus drooling! I feel like
an
>> attractive girl at a tailhook convention! I hope my virtue isn't
>> compromised!)
>
>I believe I already have a copy of this (heaven forbid I don't have
every
>*shread* of MR2 related material on this planet :-)
>
>Kostas Chryssos (Greece) was kind enough to scan me the catalog but I
haven't
>put it on the MR2 Web site due to space limitations... I have however,
gone
>through each page and pulled out all the information I could. If
people want,
>I could post it tonight.
>
>> 3 subsections--Street, Gymkhana, and Race. 17 pages, just for this
one
>> car. Everything right down to roll bars, pedal covers, steering
>> wheels...Wait, what's this? A TEMS-style electronically adjustable
>> suspension setup? Ooohhhhh!
>
>Yes, and don't forget the fuel cells and special ECU's, etc!!
>
>> Prices still in Yen, need to do a little bit of translation. I am
having
>> the Cusco (sp?) catalog sent too. Soon I'll have the HKS master
catalog.
>> With a prayer, maybe even the GReddy Master catalog.
>
>_Now_ I'm drooling again! :-) There are all sorts of MR2 items only
sold in
>Japan, dual exhaust systems, aero-kits, neat air-intake funnels,
etc...
>
>NOW what we need is a contact in Japan that can GET US this sort of
stuff!!!
>Speak any Japanese Chris?? :-)
>
>Geoff
>'91 MR2t, 163,800km
>
If you are nice and give ma a copy of the MR-2 stuff I'll contact my
friend that is going to school in Japan and see what he can do for me.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: aly abulkheir
Subject: TRD Japan Catalog
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:12:44 -0500 (EST)
Chris,
I just wanted to know if this catalog that sounds great is for MK1
MR2's also, and if so, what kind of things are available ?
Thanks,
Aly, '85 MR2
abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu
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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:22:26 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford)
Subject: Gymkhana
What is Gymkhana ?? it's not a new martial arts movie
involving MR2's is it ;-) !! Inquiring mind wants to know ..
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, AL
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:36:34 -0800
Subject: OR & S. WA Auto-x/Hillclimb/Track - Playday Schedules for 1996
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
If interested, E-mail me for the schedule of events for the 1996 Oregon and
Southern Washington area SCCA, EESCC, PCA, PMC, BMWCCA, & SSCC motorsports
clubs. Hill climb schedule too!
Lots going on!
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:13:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Gymkhana
To: toy4x4@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Jack Alford),
On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford) wrote:
>What is Gymkhana ?? it's not a new martial arts movie
>involving MR2's is it ;-) !! Inquiring mind wants to know ..
>
If I remember right, it's like a drag race through a slalom. I have never seen
one nor do I know of any clubs running them. Auto-x seems to be much more
popular.
Kip Anderson
kca@interserv.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:19:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: Address for Classic Motorbooks
To: kronvold
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" ,
>>> My brother is looking for textbooks on engine theories and design.
>>There is a two volume set on the internal combustion engine. I don't
recall
>>the title, but it is pretty technical. Check in the Motorbooks
>>International catalog.
> sounds great! never heard of it... Where do I get the motorbooks
> int'l catalog?
I was mistaken on the name of the company. It is actually Classic
Motorbooks. The address is:
Classic Motorbooks
P.O. Box 1
Osceola, WI 54020
1-800-826-6600
I believe that the address for the SAE was already posted.
Bryan Zublin
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:12:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: 20R/22R/22RTE cylinder head info
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Here is some data that I measured on the 20R head, 22R head (pre-1985) and
the 22RTE head (circa 1986). All heads are stock (not modified). Measured
07 and 08-Mar-1990.
Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com
HEAD THICKNESS
Measured from the surface that the valve cover sits on and the bottom
surface of the head. Multiple measurements were made at different
locations.
20R = 100.00 to 100.10 mm.
22R (pre 1985) = 99.99 to 100.08 mm.
22RTE = 96.0 to 96.15 mm.
Based on the measurements, the difference in head thickness between the
20R/22R(pre 1985) heads and the 22RTE/22R(post 1985) heads is 4 mm (0.157
inch). It is assumed that the 22RTE head is the same as all post 1985 22R
heads.
CAM LOCATION (vertical)
To get an idea of the center line location of the cam with respect to the
bottom surface of the head, the distance from the bottom of the head to the
bottom of the "half moon" cutout was measured. The "half moon" cutout is on
the front (and rear) portion of the head. This feature was chosen since it
is easy to measure, and it was assumed that this feature relative to the cam
center line is constant (visual inspection). Note that the actual cam
center line location was NOT measured.
20R = approx. 81 mm.
22R (pre 1985) = approx. 81 mm.
22RTE = approx. 77 mm.
Note that the difference between the 20R/22R(pre 1985) and 22RET head is 4
mm, which is the same as the difference between the head thickness (see
above). This implies that the location of the cam center line with respect
to the other features of the head (except bottom surface) was not altered.
In other words, all 4 mm were moved from the bottom surface of the head.
COMBUSTION CHAMBER VOLUME
The combustion chamber volume of the cylinder head was measured by placing a
flat piece of plexiglass over the combustion chamber (with the head upside
down) and filling the space with water (through a small hole in the
plexiglass. The volume of the liquid required to fill the space was
measured with a graduated cylinder. The valves and spark plug were
installed. All measurements were performed on the number 4 chamber.
20R = 82 cc (meas. error = +0/-2 cc)
22R (pre 1985) = 85 cc (meas. error = +1/-1 cc)
22RTE = 60.5 cc (meas error = +1/- 2 cc)
VALVE HEAD DIAMETER
20R: Intake = 42.98 mm; Exhaust = 36.10 mm.
22R (pre 1985): Intake = 45.06 mm; Exhaust = 37.05 mm.
22RTE: Intake = 45.07 mm; Exhaust = 37.06 mm.
Conclusion: 22R is larger than 20R; all 22Rs regardless of year are
probably the same. Materials may be different for the 22RTE (high temp
exhaust).
VALVE STEM DIAMETER
20R: Intake = 7.97 mm; Exhaust = 7.97 mm.
22R (pre 1985): Intake = 7.97 mm; Exhaust = 7.97 mm.
22RTE: Intake = 7.97 mm; Exhaust = 7.97 mm.
Did Toyota ever change it?
VALVE LENGTH
20R: Intake = 115.5 mm; Exhaust = 113.6 mm.
22R (pre 1985): Intake = 113.3 mm; Exhaust = 112.42 mm.
22RTE: Intake = 113.9 mm; Exhaust = 112.8 mm.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:21:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: 22R engine block info
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Here is some data that I measured on the 22RTE engine (circa 1986). I
assume that the 22RTE block, crank, and connecting rods are the same as the
post 1985 22R. All items measured were stock (not modified), and not
balanced. Measured in 1990.
Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com
BLOCK MASS
Engine block (bare) with freeze plugs installed. All other components not
installed.
87 pounds. Serial number 1668605, stamped with "22R".
CRANKSHAFT MASS
Crankshaft with oil pump gear, timing chain gear, and flywheel bolts
installed.
41 pounds.
CONNECTING ROD MASS
Connecting rods, less caps, nuts, and bearings. The wrist pin bushings and
bolts were installed.
#1= 545.4 grams
#2 = 546.6 grams
#3 = 546.9 grams
#4 = 545.5 grams
PISTON MASS
#1 = 437.53 grams
#2 = 438.01 grams
#3 = 436.10 grams
#4 = 437.72 grams
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From: Gary Hong
To: bfraser@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Yeesh .. helloo bad luck..
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 3:19:57 PST
>It would seem me and mine just cant keep our cars on the road, but in the very
>least we solved my roomies rev'ing problems in his 87 MR2 NA..
>
>(I wrote my car off a month ago, my brother last week, and my roomie today)
>
>He was doing 50kmh along a straight dry stretch of road on a nice warm (-1?0Cel)
>day .. car in front and in behind .. hit some black ice .. started doin 360's
>rear end hit a ditch, car flipped and slid along on the roof ..
>
>He now owns the first convertable Mr2 .. amazingly enough he walked away ..
>swearing like hell .. but walked away, the paramedics were amazed..
>
>I hope this streak of bad luck ends before I fly off on the 21st..
>
>Brett "ah hell, here we go again" Fraser
Brett,
I'm glad I don't know you personally :) :).
I was in a close call today. Some guy in an old beatup datsun 210 was changing
lanes. He cross three lanes slowly and I wondered if he was going to go
into my lane and hit my M3! Sure enough he decides to move over another lane
and since I was in the fast lane I was sandwich between the center divide
and the datsun 210. Anyways, you know how it is on 880 (Oakland) and some
parts of LA where there are no shoulders in the fast lane thus making the
distance between you and the center divide about an arm length of two away?
Anyways, this idiot decides to crush me (not intentionally of course)! I had
two choices, jam on the brakes or the gas? I ended up pulling away from the
guy as I accelerated towards the center divide to give myself some leway! Man,
if I was in the Celica, I think I would have been Celica-less.
Gary
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From: Gary Hong
To: toy4x4@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Toyota's Power rating
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 3:31:27 PST
Does toyota rate HP at the crank or at the wheels? My 1982 22R engine is
rated at 96HP. My car (82 Celica) feels like it has about 60 HP. I've
driven a friends Civic (non SI) and that car seems alot faster than the
Celica. I raced my roommate on Miramar rode in SD (he in his Hundai and me
in my Celica) and he was gaining (abeit slowly) on me. He has stick and I
have an auto. Anyways, Jan's issue of 4 Wheeling/Wheeler? dyno'ed a 22R
truck at 65HP. This sounds about right although it mentions the particular
engine on that truck as "tired". The magazine did a project rebuild on that
engine (20R head, port/polished, doug Thorley headers, weber 32/36 carb, etc)
and dynoed the rebuilt engine at 85HP. Although that doesn't seem much, it's
30%+ increase! These are at the wheel dyno figures so at the crank the
rebuilt engine is proabably at 100+HPs.
So, is Toyota's HP rating at the crank or at the wheel?
Has anyone dyno'ed their 22R/E/T engine?
Thanks,
Gary
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From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: Toyota's Power rating
To: garyh@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Gary Hong)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:55:55 +0200 (EET)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
> Does toyota rate HP at the crank or at the wheels? My 1982 22R engine is
> rated at 96HP. My car (82 Celica) feels like it has about 60 HP. I've
> driven a friends Civic (non SI) and that car seems alot faster than the
> Celica. I raced my roommate on Miramar rode in SD (he in his Hundai and me
> in my Celica) and he was gaining (abeit slowly) on me. He has stick and I
> have an auto. Anyways, Jan's issue of 4 Wheeling/Wheeler? dyno'ed a 22R
> truck at 65HP. This sounds about right although it mentions the particular
> engine on that truck as "tired". The magazine did a project rebuild on that
> engine (20R head, port/polished, doug Thorley headers, weber 32/36 carb, etc)
> and dynoed the rebuilt engine at 85HP. Although that doesn't seem much, it's
> 30%+ increase! These are at the wheel dyno figures so at the crank the
> rebuilt engine is proabably at 100+HPs.
Those Civics and Huyndais are probably a lot lighter than the Celica.
> So, is Toyota's HP rating at the crank or at the wheel?
At the crank/flywheel, just like every other manufacturer.
Typically the drivetrain losses are 15-20%, so the 85hp at wheels
is around 100hp at flywheel.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
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From: Gary Hong
To: k124476@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Toyota's Power rating
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 4:14:17 PST
Hi Matti,
>Those Civics and Huyndais are probably a lot lighter than the Celica.
That's true, but still embarassed being beat by a HYUNDAI! Civic I really
am not too surprised.
>> So, is Toyota's HP rating at the crank or at the wheel?
>
>At the crank/flywheel, just like every other manufacturer.
>Typically the drivetrain losses are 15-20%, so the 85hp at wheels
>is around 100hp at flywheel.
How about BMW? I heard their HP figures are very conservative. For example,
I heard of someone dyno'ing three E36 M3's and they HP readings at the wheel
were all greater than the factory rating.
Gary
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From: "Gregory Chan"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:48:03 EDT
Subject: 4AG EFI to twin sidedraft conversion
Hi guys,
I am presently contemplating how to go about
the conversion from EFI to twin carbs. I foresee some
kind of electrical problem specifically with the ignition
timing and the ECU and would be glad to hear any ideas
or leads to someone who may have some idea of how to
surmount this obstacle.
gchan@compserv.senecac.on.ca
85 Corolla GTS
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From: "Gary Friedman"
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 10:53:43 +0000
Subject: US driving lights & turbo-timer finally got me
I've had my turbo-timer since Sept/95 and I've always remembered to turn the
driving lights off when leaving the timer running.... That is until
yesterday.... Went to start my car yesterday AM and battery was as
dead as the energizer bunny isn't. Jump start and two hours at the
service station charging it back up. I"M WANNA GO CANADIAN!!!!
****Tell Me What You Think Of These Ideas****
Solution 1:
Given that there is an ignition-off/door-open shut-off now
(US spec car), why not figure out which wire at the ignition
level triggers off status and splice in a loop to a mercury
switch siliconed to the parking brake??? Brake handle
vertical=off, horizontal=on. Yes, I know inertia will cause
mercury to roll when horizontal-- haven't figured that part
out yet!! Maybe some kind of position sensor similar to a
mercury switch.
This would be a safety net, would appear to be a simple
solution if we are dealing with relay-level tiny amperage,
and may not require as much wiring work as trying to switch
to a Canadian driving light circuit.
Solution 2:
Another option is to run a relay from the turbo-timer to the
driving-light sensor at the ignition. Turbo-timer active =
ignition off signal to driving lights. on AND door open =
driving-lights off. This way the turbo-timer would be giving
desired rather than actual ignition on/off status.
By the way, this is the solution that Directed Electronics
said to use on its alarm systems (Viper, Python, many others)
to get passive ignition-off/open-door arming and ignition
controlled door locking/unlocking to work. Their tech will
walk a local installer through it over the phone if you can
find a local person willing to give it a shot! I haven't done
this yet as the now redundant Toyota alarm system arms itself
independently of turbo-timer status.
Think of the irony: Here I am in Fort Lauderdale at the height of
tourist/snowbird season surrounded by elder Canadians going 20 mph
in boats with driving lights. I want my US spec car to have driving
lights so I can maneuver around these people whilst being seen, but
my now brain impaired driving light circuit has stopped my car dead
in its tracks!!!! I think the joke is on me! I want my driving
lights and my turbo-timer!!!
Feedback??
Gary
93 MR2-T
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:20:10 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Rehashed info!
This is some oldie but goodie info that I'm going to rehash here because
several folks had asked me for it. When figuring out your carb jetting,
here are some _guidelines_:
-Main size = 4.4 time choke size
-Air Corrector size = 5 times choke size
-Change in Main is 3 times more significant than change in air corrector.
For a 36mm choke plate:
Main, 158
Air Corrector, 180
A change from a 105 to a 100 main is the same as a change from 160 to 175
in the air corrector.
Remember, these are just guidelines for a starting point. Remember
also that choke size is not the same as the venturi size.
Chris
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 10:35:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Subject: RE: My .02 on the 20R head/22R block mod (long)
To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)"
Beth C. Williams writes:
>We had to modify the head to make it work with my fuel injection. We did
>this mainly because I already had the fuel injection and I didn't want to
>spend the additional money for carbs. I think this engine is a good
Beth, can you give a brief description of the mods required to fit the EFI
intake manifold to the 20R head? This sounds like the ideal solution in
order to pass smog tests. Is porting the only mod required to make the
ports line up? Do the ports for the coolant line up? Sorry if this was
already discussed over the weekend, my mail server was down.
Bryan Zublin
bzublin@gi.com
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Subject: RE: Flywheel
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 11:53:00 PST
High Bruce!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = =
From: toyota-mods-owner
To: toyota-mods
Subject: Flywheel
Date: 5. 02. 1996 14:46
I wish I had never asked that original question about 4ag flywheel
weights,not
only didnt I ever find out how heavy the original 4AG unit was I was treated
too bad memory's of University with discussions of angular momemtum. Now
guys
I have an honours degree in Physics but I need an imperical 'seat of the
pants'
answer here. 1. Is an 11KG 4AG flywheel driveable? Is the standard backing
plate good enough for 155BHP and the HKS flywheel? Do I need to replace the
flywheel and/or the clutch bolts? In the case of the 2TG the answer was,
11KG is too heavy, standard clutch is good to 170, CRANE high tensile bolts
were no stronger than standard and you only broke the bolts when you used
them
to often and over torqued them.
Bruce Connelly
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = =
I have some experience about 4A-GE clutch & flywheel...
FLYWHEEL
I lightened my flywheel last spring, but can't remmember anymore how
much it weighted originally, I think it was something like 10-11kg. There
were some 4-5kg (can't remmember again:) taken off from my flywheel,
basicly from outerside. I didn't find big difference between lightened
and the original versions (Didn't find much difference either when
lightened my 2TGE flywheel from 11kg to 5kg). Offcourse there are - or
at least there should be - some diffrence ex. getting the revs down faster
- good for fast shifting, but not as much difference as I excpectet/waited.
CLUTCH
I have used stock clutch on my turboed 4A-GE (FWD Corolla) and have
found out that the stock clutch can take some 170hp (It wears rapidly
though!). If we go beyond that there will be slipping... The rallyshop owner
here told me that the stock clutch is good only for 130-150 hp - what can I
say...
maybe I didn't have that much power on my 4A-GE (dyno altought told 170hp
with 0.5 bar).
By the way good & cheap clutch assemply still needed! My friend build from
2 stock pressure plates one "haevy" pressure plate and it's working! It's
abit
heavyer to use than stock (offcourse:) put it works...let's see how much
torgue
it can take (stock clutch plate). Maybe I'll use one too next summer :) It's
cheap -
only some sweat & machining needed (and two old pressure plates)...
-Timo- (traikkonen@c2000.fi)
PS. Stock bolts...
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Subject: RE: Flywheel
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 12:32:00 PST
High again Bruce!
I HATE METAL DISKS!
I have used on my 2TGE (later modified to 2.1 liter turbo intercooled...) an
metal clutch disk and found it very duraple and good. But it had some
disadvantages too! I hate to take off with it! Thre is no problem when in
cruising speeds or faster, but if u want to take off smoothly... It made me
CRAZY!
I also had metal disk on my FWD Corolla 4A-GE (at that time 170 hp) and
it broke my engine mounting runbbers and it was also crazy to drive (read
- take off:).
So if there is a choice I'll go for it!
-Timo- (traikkonen@c2000.fi)
----------
From: toyota-mods-owner
To: toyota-mods
Subject: Flywheel
Date: 6. 02. 1996 11:29
To the list,
Roger Smith's last note to me was very informative but highlighted a
difference
between ALL of my engines and some of you guys in the US. It appears you
guys
dont use solid plate metalic clutchs.....why? The very first thing I did
when
I put in my 4AG was to put a solid metalic clutch in it. It costs so little
and
pays for itself as you just resurface them. There is NO clutch shudder, no
slip
and no undesirable traits. You just give the rebuilder an old Toyota centre
and
$90 Aus and two days later it is done. Therefore I cant see why HKS would
not
recommend this for the road.
Bruce Connelly
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 08:24:58 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Pyyvaara
To: Raikkonen Timo
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: Flywheel
On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Raikkonen Timo wrote:
> metal clutch disk and found it very duraple and good. But it had some
> disadvantages too! I hate to take off with it! Thre is no problem when in
> cruising speeds or faster, but if u want to take off smoothly... It made me
> CRAZY!
Try a metal disk with standard (or slightly heavier than standard)
pressure plate. I have this setup in my KE-25 with 2T-G and it is nice
and smooth but does not slip at all.
Paul.
--
Paul Pyyvaara - paulp@Bond.edu.au
Senior Network Programmer - Information Technology Services
B O N D U N I V E R S I T Y, QLD, 4229, AUSTRALIA
Phone:(+61 7 5595 1412) Fax:(+61 7 5595 1456)
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Cc: "'Tony York'"
Subject: 2TG-E & 4A-GE idle...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 18:30:00 PST
High Tony!
I also once had similar problem with my 2TG-E(U) engine. I noticed
that it occured after I had tuned the mixture "by my ear". In traffic
light's
etc. the engine reved between 800 and 1800 rpm. After listening this
play I get annoied and started to tune it again. In the first place I had
tuned the rpm only from the intakemanifold (near the putterfly), but this
time I also screwed the airmeter (heh:)...but it did help!
Now I have the same problem in my 4A-GE - kinda'... It starts doing
that jumping when I push the pedal a bit (so the revs will reach 1500
rpm). If I keep the pedal in that position the revs jumps from 800 to
about 2300 rpm. Immediately I lift my '42 (or is it 9) from the pedal
it stops (not the engine:) and starts to idle like pussy. I haven't paid
a lot intention to this becouse it's not messing with me too much.
-Timo- (traikkonen@c2000.fi)
PS. If I adjust the idle rpm too high the engine will start playing with the
idle rpm (up, down, up,...) Any "guru's" here who could light me with
this phenomen?
==============================
Hi Brett,
I had problems with my Corolla GT Twin Cam ((GT-S)4A-GE) idling/ revving
up and down. I later discovered that it was all due to air in the
cooling system. Bleeding the system cured the problem. It was revving
between 900rpm and 2000rpm.The temperature sensor was sensing the
difference in temperature and adjusting the idle speed accordingly.
Could be air !?
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Subject: RE: Ignitions
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 19:25:00 PST
High John!
Welcome to the "internet e-mailing thing" John! I also have a
4A-GE turboed and love to here that here are some others
too - GREAT!
What I was going to say is that I surely know that it's not the
best way to avoid pinging or knocking just letting "something"
to retard the sparg by "how much?" A previously programmed
and dyno tested retard is good, but this "do what u like - I don't
see ya" system... (I once had Carter Knock Eliminator or
something on my turboed (2.1 liter) 2TGU and didn't found it
good). U can even rise the boost to 20 or 25 psi and still hear
no ping! It could be that u get only 5 hp after rising boost from
12 to 20 psi - the mixture is not converted to heat instead of
horsepower.
By the way, how much does a programmaple fuel injection &
spark control computer cost? I mean that it starts to be the
the number one choice in cases like u and me. We can
play with these fancy "little" stuffs as long as we want and
still leaving that extra 100 ponies in rest (240hp+100hp=?:)!
Am I starting something here? :)
-Timo- (traikkonen@c2000.fi)
PS. Love to hear more from your setup! What kind of additional
fueling system u use? Dynoed 240 hp? etc.
----------
From: toyota-mods-owner
To: toyota-mods
Subject: Ignitions
Date: 8. 02. 1996 7:06
Hello there everybody..
I'm new to this internet e-mail thing, and I'm no expert on ignitions
but this is what I have and it works well.
'87 MR-2 4AGE Turbocharged 240 bhp.
I started With HKS's EGC unit and Twin Power setup. Hated it.
The Twin Power alone worked GREAT,
The EGC however I could not get set up right, bouncing timing at idle
inconstiant timing curve, poor starts, poor mileage.
I removed both of those and replace it with the Jacobs OminPak and a
Jacobs boost timing controller ( not sure of the name it was a few
years ago ) Similar problems as above.
The setup I have now is...
J&S Electronice Digital SafeGuard and the HKS Twin Power Amp.
I LOVE THIS !
I set my timing 2-3 degrees advanced and forget it.
The J&S unit has a knock sensor that listens to EACH cylinder and
retards only the one that starts to knock. It's sensor hears it way
before anyones ear ever would. I'v had no problems with this setup
even when running 15 psi of boost.
Only one note. the Toyota ingnition system needs a special coil
installed in the J&S unit in order for the factory ECU to think it
still has a coil connected. No problem though the unit can be ordered
that way.
Disclaimer:
Although this recomendation or modification has been sucessful in my
application it has not been subject to exaustive testing and may not in
all instances provide a compleate soultion. Thease are my opinions and
may not nessarly agree with the opinions of management or others.
Thank You
John Welch
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:12:26 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Pyyvaara
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Forwarded mail....
Don't think this one made it to the list....
Paul.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:01:22 +1000
From: bagdon@rust.net
Received: from [152.52.36.28] (vyger108.nando.net [152.52.36.28]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06529 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 20:58:35 -0500 (EDT)
X-Sender: bagdon@mail.rust.net
Message-Id:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 21:01:05 -0500
To: toyota-mods-approval@CyberAuto.com
From: bagdon@rust.net (Steve Bagdon)
Subject: waiting for approval.
'85 MR2 N/A 179,000 miles.
'91 MR2 Turbo 77,000 miles.
Active member of MR2 list group.
Many previous Toyota's in the past - '76 Corolla, '86 MR2, '81 Celica
Sunchaser, '77 Coronna.
Steve B.
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 23:46:35 -0800
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
The following is proof that I don't know everything.
As most of you will remember, my car was exhibiting an occasional slight stumble
at idle and a bad misfire under boost. I replaced the plugs (which were
damaged) and the problem persisted. I insisted that it must be a sensor or fuel
delivery problem. I ruled out the obvious place to start which would be the
ignition system because under idle a strong spark was evident at all the plugs.
Well the verdict is: sometimes it's better to start with the obvious. Having
spent $165 for diagnostic time and labor I now know that without a doubt the
problem was the ignition!
For $84.34 the local Toy. shop ordered new wires, a distibutor cap, and the
rotor. I installed them this evening and the car runs flawlessly.
I kicked it up to about 15 psi with no problem.
Some of the lessons learned from this experience:
1. Assume nothing, your probably wrong anyway.
2. Don't use Bosch Platinums in the 3S-GTE, they just don't work well in this
engine. The Toyota Platinums work 100% better.
3. Start with the cheap replaceable items before paying somebody else to do it.
(I could have saved myself $165 if I had done this).
4. Learn from the experiences of others. E.g. it was brought to my attention
that members of the Talon/Eclipse list had experienced similar troubles and
solved it by replacing wires, plugs, the distributor cap, and rotor.
Regardless, I now understand what causes this problem with worn/old ignition
components. Accepting the fact that the distibutor mechanism has a fixed
mechanical operation, the rotor only maintains a connection (almost) with each
terminal of the cap for a fixed period of time directly related to crank
position. The ECU decides at what point to trigger the spark during that
connection.
In order to prevent detonation the ECU retards the spark. This means the spark
triggering occurs later in the distibutor connection interval. Increasing boost
increases the amount of spark retard - often beyond where the distributor has a
visible connection. I.e. the spark must arc between the rotor and the cap
terminal. A worn or corroded cap and rotor increase resistance and reduce the
distance that can be arc'd. Additionally the more dense charge in the cylinders
from boosting increases the resistance in the gap of the plugs. Throw in some
old wires with higher than normal resistance and the problem gets worse.
So if your car developes an on-boost miss, check the ignition first by replacing
the parts that have a relatively short service life. They'll try this first at
the shop anyway and charge you $55+/hr to do it.
Hopefully this post will save others from such frustrations in the future. I
just wish I had my $165 back!
LT-1 owners you can go back into hiding now. >:)
Kip Anderson
91 MR2 Turbo
kca@interserv.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 07:10:08 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
Kip:
Don't beat yourself up too hard. Like I say, it's always the plumber's
pipes that are leaking!
I continuously beat people up for not replacing their spark plug wires.
The things just simply don't have an infinite lifetime. Yet when my
Oldsmobile started coughing, choking, and sputtering upon accelleration,
I never even considered the spark plug wires! I talked with a friend who
works in a dealership, he talked with his service folks, and they said,
"Tell the bozo to replace his spark plug wires." (Well, I would have said
something like that anyway.) I did, problem gone.
I wouldn't drone on at this point, but since we've kinda been beating
ignitions around...Most folks can get all the additional firepower they
need in a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder by just upgrading their carbon
fiber core spark plug wires to a good quality spiral core wire. There
are many--Taylor, Jacobs, Accel, NGK--but for all-around cost/performance/
ease of installation, I recommend Magnecor. They install in a snap, look
good, fit well, last a long time.
Chris
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 9:35:36 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: My .02 on the 20R head/22R block mod (long)
>Beth, can you give a brief description of the mods required to fit the
EFI
>intake manifold to the 20R head? This sounds like the ideal solution in
>order to pass smog tests. Is porting the only mod required to make the
>ports line up? Do the ports for the coolant line up?
It really wasn't that complicated. Two main things actually.
1) There are two studs at the back of the 20R head. These don't line up
with the holes on the fuel injected intake and they have to be moved. We
just unscrewed the studs, filled in the area, and retapped the holes for
the studs in the correct place, and reused the studs. You can use All
Metal, any type of aluminum patching material, or aluminum weld that
area. We had someone to weld my head, but Jeff has used the All Metal as
well.
2) There is a water jacket at the front of the 20R head that, if you
look inside with a flashlight, you can see that it doesn't go anywhere.
(I'm having a hard time figuring out how to describe what has to be done,
but here goes.) You need to drill holes (4 total) using about a 3/8"
drill bit at both the top and the bottom to the right and the left inside
of this hole. If you are looking at the hole, put the drill into the
hole and turn it to the right and drill a hole at the top and the bottom.
Then turn the drill to the left and drill your holes at the top and the
bottom.
Everything else should line up after some porting.
The second thing we learned from experience. We saw the hole and assumed
that it went somewhere, Why else would it be there, right? We tested it
with just short trips when we first got it running. I finally got brave
and decided to drive it to town. I was on my way back home when the heat
hand started creeping up. I was about 3 miles from home when I decided
it was getting too high to keep going. Thank goodness for cellular
phones! We had to take the intake back off and realized that that hole
didn't go anywhere, so there was no water flowing through the head.
Beth C. Williams
Automated Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 10:30:06 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: My .02 on the 20R head/22R block mod (long)
If I could find a woman who could talk motors like this, I'd probably
get married !!! Jeff did well for himself ... Beth even drives a 4x4 ;-) !!!
- jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, al
At 09:35 AM 2/13/96 -0500, Beth wrote:
>>Beth, can you give a brief description of the mods required to fit the
>EFI
>>intake manifold to the 20R head? This sounds like the ideal solution in
>
>>order to pass smog tests. Is porting the only mod required to make the
>>ports line up? Do the ports for the coolant line up?
>
>It really wasn't that complicated. Two main things actually.
>
>1) There are two studs at the back of the 20R head. These don't line up
>with the holes on the fuel injected intake and they have to be moved. We
>just unscrewed the studs, filled in the area, and retapped the holes for
>the studs in the correct place, and reused the studs. You can use All
>Metal, any type of aluminum patching material, or aluminum weld that
>area. We had someone to weld my head, but Jeff has used the All Metal as
>well.
>
>2) There is a water jacket at the front of the 20R head that, if you
>look inside with a flashlight, you can see that it doesn't go anywhere.
>(I'm having a hard time figuring out how to describe what has to be done,
>but here goes.) You need to drill holes (4 total) using about a 3/8"
>drill bit at both the top and the bottom to the right and the left inside
>of this hole. If you are looking at the hole, put the drill into the
>hole and turn it to the right and drill a hole at the top and the bottom.
> Then turn the drill to the left and drill your holes at the top and the
>bottom.
>
>Everything else should line up after some porting.
>
>The second thing we learned from experience. We saw the hole and assumed
>that it went somewhere, Why else would it be there, right? We tested it
>with just short trips when we first got it running. I finally got brave
>and decided to drive it to town. I was on my way back home when the heat
>hand started creeping up. I was about 3 miles from home when I decided
>it was getting too high to keep going. Thank goodness for cellular
>phones! We had to take the intake back off and realized that that hole
>didn't go anywhere, so there was no water flowing through the head.
>
>
>
>Beth C. Williams
>Automated Degree Audit Specialist
>Office of the University Registrar
>University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
>105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
>Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
>Phone: (919) 962-0495
>e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:03:14 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: My .02 on the 20R head/22R block mod (long)
>If I could find a woman who could talk motors like this, I'd probably
>get married !!! Jeff did well for himself ... Beth even drives a 4x4 ;-)
!!!
> - jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, al
I drive my Paseo most of the time. You know I have to keep up
appearances!!!
I have to admit before I met Jeff I knew nothing about cars, except to
get in and drive. I guess it has just been rubbing off for so long, I
can't help but know a FEW (and I do mean very few) things!!!
Beth C. Williams
Automated Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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From: Gary Hong
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 10:16:57 PST
From: Christopher Myer
>
>Kip:
>
>Don't beat yourself up too hard. Like I say, it's always the plumber's
>pipes that are leaking!
>
>I continuously beat people up for not replacing their spark plug wires.
>The things just simply don't have an infinite lifetime. Yet when my
>Oldsmobile started coughing, choking, and sputtering upon accelleration,
>I never even considered the spark plug wires! I talked with a friend who
>works in a dealership, he talked with his service folks, and they said,
>"Tell the bozo to replace his spark plug wires." (Well, I would have said
>something like that anyway.) I did, problem gone.
>
>I wouldn't drone on at this point, but since we've kinda been beating
>ignitions around...Most folks can get all the additional firepower they
>need in a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder by just upgrading their carbon
>fiber core spark plug wires to a good quality spiral core wire. There
>are many--Taylor, Jacobs, Accel, NGK--but for all-around cost/performance/
>ease of installation, I recommend Magnecor. They install in a snap, look
>good, fit well, last a long time.
>
>Chris
Chris and Kip,
I have a friend who is having the "sputtering" problem. His car is an
automatic. At park and neutral, the car is fine. However, once it is in
drive, the car sputters. Give it gas and it will sputter until over 1.5k RPM.
Does this sound like plug wire problems?
Gary
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From: toy4x4@ro.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:26:59 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
>I have a friend who is having the "sputtering" problem. His car is an
>automatic. At park and neutral, the car is fine. However, once it is in
>drive, the car sputters. Give it gas and it will sputter until over 1.5k RPM.
>Does this sound like plug wire problems?
Yes, that's exactly what one of my vehicles was doing before I replaced
the plug wires, at idle it never missed a beat but up the revs and
there was the miss, I thought for sure there was no way it was the
plug wires since it didn't do it at idle, I replaced fuel filters,
even pulled the gas tank and cleaned, then out of a whim decided to
upgrade to some Jacobs wires and the problem was gone ...
- jack
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 20:09:28 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: 20R/22R/22RTE cylinder head info
Great info, Bryan! Thanks for the post! I really can't add anything
about the stock setup, but some good info to have on the Wiseco Pistons:
WISECO PISTON DOME VOLUME
Domed pistons (Ok for pre 84.8 2xR engine): 24.7cc
Flattop pistons (Use on post 84.7 22R engine): 0cc (duh!)
Using this and the info Bryan posted (plus the head gasket compressed
height) you can figure out exactly what compression ratio you are going
to be running with these pistons. Here's the formula:
C-P+G+D+V
CR = ---------
C-P+G+V
Where:
C is combustion chamber volume
P is piston dome volume
G is head gasket volume
D is deck height volume
V is cylinder swept volume
(all in cc's)
Here are some more equations:
D = (d/2)^2 x 51.48 x h
where:
d is cylinder diameter (inches)
h is deck height (inches)
Pardon the US terms--these are from the SA Design book Engine Blueprinting
by Rick Voegelin. I recommend it highly (check out
www.cyberauto.com/cartech for more fine SA Design books and prices!)
Deck height is the distance from the deck of the block down to the top
of the piston at TDC. Obviously, this is a negative number if the top
of the piston comes above the block deck. Also, we aren't talking about
the dome, but rather the top of the piston which doesn't include the
dome.
Similarly,
G = (d/2)^2 x 51.48 x t
where:
d is gasket hole diameter (inches)
t is compressed gasket thickness (inches)
You can figure out the rest. Using this, you can come up with the
_EXACT_ compression ratio you are running. (Not a guesstimate.)
Always hoping to be helpful!
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
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From: kca@interserv.com
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 19:35:32 -0800
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
To: Gary Hong
Cc: Toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
On Tue, 13 Feb 96, Gary Hong wrote:
>Chris and Kip,
>
>I have a friend who is having the "sputtering" problem. His car is an
>automatic. At park and neutral, the car is fine. However, once it is in
>drive, the car sputters. Give it gas and it will sputter until over 1.5k RPM.
>Does this sound like plug wire problems?
Sounds more like a slight vaccum leak, but if the wires are >3 years old and the
plugs >1 year replace them. While at it your friend might as well put in a new
rotor and distributor cap. (As I found out, they can look Ok but still be
causing problems.)
Regardless check all the vaccum connections and hoses very carefully. One
loose/cracked hose can really screw up the works at low RPMs by either allowing
the engine to run overly lean or by sending a false signal to a sensor (vaccum
operated mechanical timing advance for instance).
Kip Anderson
91 MR2 Turbo
kca@interserv.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 22:20:31 -0700
From: Steve Alexander
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: 1985 Toyota MR-2 parts
I've posted this before, so please forgive the repitition....
I have the following parts from my '85 MR-2 for sale:
Here are my asking prices:
4 Tokico Illuminas, ST springs - $420.00 (no shipping (exch.))
(I'd like to do an exchange on the entire strut assemblies so i'd need
youroriginals back.)
K&N Filtercharger w/ refresh kit - $100.00 + $10.00 to ship
Plus, not in my first post: I have a Super Trapp with a short piece
of pipe attached. It attaches where the CAT went, and replaces all of
that HEAVY stuff in the back compartment (held up by a hose clamp and
one of those strap-type muffler hangers (which would be included). I
left my original setup on and switched at the track in ~20 minutes. I'd
sell this setup for $90.00 + $10.00 ship.
Someone Please buy this stuff so I can clean out my garage!
-SAAWOB-
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:46:10 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Japan Stuff
I can order anything from Japan currently.
If not, they will drop ship (UPS generally) to the US
make sure you tell them its for racing purposes only.
Also, if you want anything else, i recontacted a friend living there.
He's willing to goto junk yards and salvage stuff.
-Koji
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:12:46 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Ordering from Japan - Just tried
Aloha...
Try call up TRD Japan direct, like someone named Roger did a long time ago.
They speak english rather well.
After a while, have that fax machine ready, and they'll fax you over
anything you want.
One important note, is that they go by Model designation numbers.
such as AE-86 or Toyota 86 or Hachi-jyu roko is a 1984-1987 RWD Corolla GTS.
Ma71 is a toyota supra, sw11 is a mr2 etc etc.
Luck !
-Koji
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 09:21:22 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: fmarsh@helix.nih.gov (Frederick Marsh)
Subject: Re:Cylinder misfiring results
>Regardless check all the vaccum connections and hoses very carefully. One
>loose/cracked hose can really screw up the works at low RPMs by either
>allowing
>the engine to run overly lean or by sending a false signal to a sensor (vaccum
>operated mechanical timing advance for instance).
Speaking of vaccuum leaks, on my 22RE engine (Celica) I found a hole in the
hose that runs from the bottom of the vaccuum cylinder (chamber?). Where
does this hose go to? It leaves the bottom of the cylinder then goes into
the body of the car. What would the hole in that hose do?
Curiously,
-frederick.
'85 Celica GTS Convertible
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To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com"
From: Tony York
Subject: Ignition ?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 08:34:56 PST
Hi group,
I was reading an old 'MAX POWER' magazine and discovered a
section on ignition amplifiers and stuff. They beleive that you can
get 2-3hp extra at the wheels just by putting a new ignition coil and
amplifier. Also they suggested that you could get another 2hp ish by
widening the gap on the spark plugs from 32 to 40 ish, I can't
remember the exact figures.
If anyone is interested I will dig the info out and post it to the
group.
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 23:31:25 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: celicag@magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
Subject: Carb For Sale
Hello everyone,
Just happen to have a slightly used Weber 32/36 downdraft progressive with
air cleaner, linkage, and adaptor for 20R or 22R for sale. Moving up to a
Weber dual 38mm. $175obo. We ship anywhere!.
Chris W Morgan
1979 Celica Sunchaser
1984 Celica GT Hatchback
1985 Celica GTS Convertable
P.S. To the Toyota Goddess Beth Williams: Could you sweet talk the stock 20R
cam specs (duration and lift) from your hubby?. Mr Myer doesent seem to have
enough pull to get the job done!. I'll bet you do!. Thanks!.
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From: bconnelly@vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 13:26:36 EDT
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Whats an AE86?
To the list,
After my last append on the differences between the front rear and mid
engined 4AG cars I'm drowning in mail! So if I've forgotten you I'm sorry
please write to me on AUIBMBMC at IBMMAIL.COM if you want a response. Now
it seems that many people dont know these numbers. AE86 is the last of the
rear wheel drive corolla's, often called a Sprinter, Levin, Trueno or similar.
The AE82's are FWD, the FX-16 is the US hatch with two doors. It is called
a 'Twin Cam' in Australia and differs from the US model in that it has 4 doors.
The MR2 is an AW11 I think. In all these names the A=A series engine, the E=
corolla,W=MR2 and 82,86,11 etc is the model number. Within these numbers there
were other variations, for instance the AE86 came this two different noses and
at least a boot or hatch variation of each nose. The AE82 came in Hatch,
sedan and SECA (5 door lift). All these variation have differnt weights and
different top speeds. The popular choice is the AE86 with short nose and a boot
, but Australia only got the Hatch, and I think the US was the same.I think
the UK and Japan got this model which is lightest.
Bruce
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 16:38:29 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov (Stuart Banks)
Subject: Re: Carb For Sale
Hi Chris,
Do you already have the 38/38 on your car? I have been thinking of moving
up from the 32/36 to the 38/38 myself and would like to hear what you think
of it. Did you loose power on the bottom end? can you feel the difference
at the mid and top end? Also is this on your 20R or 22R?
Thanks
Stuart
******************************
* stuart.banks@gsfc.nasa.gov *
* Stuart Banks *
* NASA GSFC Code 713 *
* Greenbelt, MD 20771 *
* (301)286-5934 *
******************************
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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:27:09 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Some Weber Info
I've just begun to understand Weber, and thought I'd pass on the info I
have so everyone else could avoid wandering in the dark the way I've
done for the last 2-3 years on this subject. As I mentioned before,
there is an East Coast Weber and a West Coast Weber. West Coast Weber
is AEM. I've worked with Keith there at AEM for quite a while, and he's
an easy guy to talk with. Keith can tell you carb jettings off the top
of his head, and you can get some really good info from him, although he's
kind of hard to pin down on anything. Quite expensive, however. I
bought my 38DGES Weber for the race car from AEM way back before I went
into the parts business (about 2 years ago, maybe a little more), and I
paid over $400 for it then, which is still high by todays standards.
The East coast Weber distributor eluded me until today. Stuart suggested
that I call a place called Interco for info on buying Weber's wholesale.
Well, I called them, and when I got home tonight, my big supplier in
Miami sent me the first Weber catalog I have ever seen! I've been begging
for a Weber catalog for over 2 years from AEM (and others) and was promised
that no such thing existed. Well, I have one in my hot little hands, and
it is a "Interco-Weber" catalog. Hello! Interco is the East Coast Weber
distributor!
While Interco seems cheaper, their kits seem very unimaginative,
especially for the Toyota's. If you call AEM and want to put a set of
sidedrafts on a 22R, they'll give you the info faster than you can write
it down, and will give you a selection of 2 or 3 different manifolds
that you can choose from, with various lengths. You can get the el cheapo
linkage, or you can get their upgraded aircraft stainless linkage for
even more (that's what I got for the truck.) Interco may be able to
do all of this, but their catalog doesn't indicate that they can, and
neither did the sales rep that I talked with.
Ok, well write down this info 'cause you're not going to get it anywhere
else! Here are the Interco-Weber kit numbers for some common Toyotas.
Unfortunately, while you can hardly _force_ AEM to sell you a 32/36 for
any engine over 2 liters, Interco only sells 32/36's for the 2xRs and
3T motors. Anyhow, in case you're interested:
K744: 32/36 DGEV kit for
8RC Celica's, Corona's, Pickups
18RC Celica's, Corona's, Pickups
K752C: 32/36 DGEV kit for
20R Celica's, Corona's, Pickups
K748C: 32/36 DGEV-IC kit for
22R Celica's, Corona's, Pickups
K663C: 32/36 DGEV-IC kit for
71-74 2TC Corollas
K741C: 32/36 DGEV-IC kit for
75-79 2TC Corollas & 3TC Corollas
K751: 32 DGEV kit for
4ALC Corollas
1AC Corollas
3AC Corollas
Now what do all of those silly Weber acronyms mean?
DGV, DGAV, DGEV, DFV, DFAV, DMSA, ADF, DMTR, DIR
2 barrel downdraft, progressive
ICH, ICT
1 barrel downdraft
DGES, DCNF, IDF
2 barrel downdraft, synchronous
IDA
2 or 3 barrel downdraft, synchronous
DCOE
2 barrel sidedraft, synchronous
In general, for that long list of DG and DF carburetors, the type of
choke is listed by either an A for water (Agua!), E for electric, or
neither for manual.
Well, that's enought for now. I probably should put this out
on the TM web site, but I think that I'll add a Weber catalog page
to the CAP web site and put all this info there.
Chris
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 22:25:31 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Fwd: Cylinder misfiring results
In a message dated 96-02-13 08:06:04 EST, cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher
Myer) writes:
>I wouldn't drone on at this point, but since we've kinda been beating
>ignitions around...Most folks can get all the additional firepower they
>need in a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder by just upgrading their carbon
>fiber core spark plug wires to a good quality spiral core wire. There
>are many--Taylor, Jacobs, Accel, NGK--but for all-around cost/performance/
>ease of installation, I recommend Magnecor. They install in a snap, look
>good, fit well, last a long time.
Hi folks! I must second the motion for the Magnecor wires. My
project/fun/race car before my recently purchased '86 MR2 was a relatively
perfect '73 Fiat 124 Spyder. I loved that car, ran the crap out of it, but
for the longest time I was eating spark plugs like popcorn. I was running
10.5:1 compression, touring cams, and dual 40mm downdraft Webers. My idle
jets were a little on the rich side but that made it idle a little better
with the light flywheel and all... Anyway, I must have tried 4 different
plug manufacturers and at least 2 wire sets in my quest to stop misses and
plug failures. I bought the Magnecor wires on a recommendation from a good
parts dealer near here and BINGO! Never again did I have a plug fail or a
miss problem, which let me have fun with the rest of the car!
I guess that's enough of my saga, but I will say that I got more complements
on those wires than I ever expected. They looked GREAT and performed as
well. I have a set on order for my MR2 -- now to get those cams installed...
:) :D
Dave
'86 MR2... soon the snow will melt (I hope!)
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
Sender: owner-toyota-mods@CyberAuto.Com
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: 96-02-13 08:06:04 EST
Kip:
Don't beat yourself up too hard. Like I say, it's always the plumber's
pipes that are leaking!
I continuously beat people up for not replacing their spark plug wires.
The things just simply don't have an infinite lifetime. Yet when my
Oldsmobile started coughing, choking, and sputtering upon accelleration,
I never even considered the spark plug wires! I talked with a friend who
works in a dealership, he talked with his service folks, and they said,
"Tell the bozo to replace his spark plug wires." (Well, I would have said
something like that anyway.) I did, problem gone.
I wouldn't drone on at this point, but since we've kinda been beating
ignitions around...Most folks can get all the additional firepower they
need in a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder by just upgrading their carbon
fiber core spark plug wires to a good quality spiral core wire. There
are many--Taylor, Jacobs, Accel, NGK--but for all-around cost/performance/
ease of installation, I recommend Magnecor. They install in a snap, look
good, fit well, last a long time.
Chris
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Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 8:30:51 -0500
From: "BETH C. WILLIAMS"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: celicag@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: 20R Cam Specs......Finally
Okay Guys, here they
are....................................................
For 1975 and up 20R's and non EFI 22R's:
Intake Duration- 272 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 248 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.1 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm
For EFI 22R's:
Intake Duration- 248 degrees
Exhaust Duration- 280 degrees
Intake Lift- 10.0 mm
Exhaust Lift- 9.7 mm
Enjoy................... I had to look high and low for them!!
Later,
Beth
Beth C. Williams
Automated Degree Audit Specialist
Office of the University Registrar
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
105 Hanes Hall; CB# 2100
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-2100
Phone: (919) 962-0495
e-Mail: edc.our@mhs.unc.edu
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Subject: RE: Flywheel (copper disk)...
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 16:15:00 PST
Hei Pauli!
I had such installation on my past KE-35 with that pored 2T-GE
with 3T rods etc (2.1 liter also turboed). There was 4 plate disk
with 4 springs with HKS (don't really remmember) pressure
plate with same kind of system as Centerforce pressure plates
(those little metal cubes between the pressure springs).
Anyway I didn't found it very smooth. Yes it was smooth when
driving, but (again) the take off is not smooth! Actually I can't
understand how could a metal disk be smooth? It really
doesn't slip at all and if it does it will soon become "old one".
Am I lost or am I really lost?
-Timo- (traikkonen@c2000.fi)
PS. I really tried to get smooth take offs but couldn't1 And after
hard driveing the clutch was even more acressive to crap!
PPS. Here is the same story in Finnish for Pauli :)
Tuossa oli aikoinaan siin{ KE-35:sessani poratussa 2T-GE:ss{ (kuten
joskus kerroin sinulle) sellainen viritelm{. 4-lapainen kupari levy (jouset
keskell{, jotta pehme{mpi) ja paineasetelmana HKS:n tai jotain miss{
samanlaiset metallipalat niiss{ Centerforcen asetelmissa. Toimivat
varmaan niin, ett{ kierroksien mukaan lis{{v{t painetta?
Anyway, en kokenut sit{ mukavaksi! L{htiess{ oli aina oltava tarkkana
sill{ tarrasi nopeasti kiinni. En itse asiassa ymm{rr{ kuinka kupari levy
voisi olla pehme{? Seh{n ei oikeastaan luista ollenkaan ja jos luistaa
on se pian entinen!!! Vai olenko ihan v{{r{ss{?
PS. Voi kun olis l{mpim{ss{ ja kuivassa (siis maassa)! :)
----------
From: toyota-mods-owner
To: Raikkonen Timo
Cc: toyota-mods
Subject: RE: Flywheel
Date: 13. 02. 1996 8:24
On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, Raikkonen Timo wrote:
> metal clutch disk and found it very duraple and good. But it had some
> disadvantages too! I hate to take off with it! Thre is no problem when in
> cruising speeds or faster, but if u want to take off smoothly... It made
me
> CRAZY!
Try a metal disk with standard (or slightly heavier than standard)
pressure plate. I have this setup in my KE-25 with 2T-G and it is nice
and smooth but does not slip at all.
Paul.
--
Paul Pyyvaara - paulp@Bond.edu.au
Senior Network Programmer - Information Technology Services
B O N D U N I V E R S I T Y, QLD, 4229, AUSTRALIA
Phone:(+61 7 5595 1412) Fax:(+61 7 5595 1456)
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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 01:11:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Craig A Terlau
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: "Wendy P. Jensen" ,
Subject: Cold Starting
Some recent posts about starting problems in extremely cold weather
prompted me to relay my own Starlet cold starting problems to the group.
Some of you may have read my previous post about ignition system
modifications. Well, one of the things I have done is to disable all of
the timing advance mechanisms and run about 38 degrees timing advance. (I
have also made adjustable phasing between the rotor and cap so that the
sparking occurs while the rotor and cap-electrodes are aligned.) Having
full advance at all rmp's has its advantages, and if you haven't tried it
you would be amazed at how it affects driving response. When you put the
boot in at lower rpm's the engine has LOTS more power than with a
distributor using advance mechanisms, but you have to be aware of engine
knock and sort of hand run the engine.
Well in that last cold snap we experienced here in the Mid-Western USA
the temperature where I live dipped colder than -30 F. Embarrassingly, my
car wouldn't start when it became colder than about -15 F. Here's why:
When it is really cold, the engine cranks MUCH slower than normal. With
38 degrees advance, as soon as the fuel-air mixture would ignite, it
would be pushing the pistons down against the direction of engine
rotation and working against the starter (which is already having a bad
time of it).
Fortunately for me, my girlfriend volunteered to start the Starlet by
pushing it with her completely stock 92 Corolla DX (which always starts
no-matter-how-cold-it-is). But a guy can only take so much of this. I
put a stock distributor back in there and set the timing to factory
specifications. Now it always starts. However, the performance is
significantly lower.
Craig.
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From: "Gary Friedman"
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:23:28 +0000
Subject: Stereo Security Code
>>As you may have already guessed, I have a problem. I had my battery
>>replaced for the first time and the anti-theft system was engaged.
>>Unfortunately, I do not have the security code.
>
>Did you try 100? That is the factory default code. My car's previous
>owner never changed it, so it was left at 100. I got lucky :)
My 3 in 1 stereo obviously has an unknown code entered (SEC on
start-up). If I want to try "100" to see if I can change the code
will I be able to go back to normal operation after ONE ATTEMPT to
change it, or will I be stuck with the thing waiting for 8 more
attempts and then lock-up??? Please let us know if you have actually
done this as opposed to thinking you know how to do it!!
Gary.
93 MR2T
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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 13:36:00 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: 4M engine
I was wondering about the old 4M inline 6 cylinder engine. This engine
dates back to 1972, when it replaced the 2M as the 6 cylinder option in
the Mark II, but more recently was used in the 79 and 80 Supra and the
80 Cressida. The 5M replaced the 4M in 81, and the 7M replaced that in
86.
Enough history lesson. The 4M is an 80mm x 85mm (bore x stroke), the
5M is 83 x 85, and the 7M is 83 x 91. I am supposing that the 4M could
be easily bored over to 83mm to acommodate 5M/7M pistons. Then, I was
wondering if the 7M crank could be used in either the 5M or the 4M,
since all 3 engines share the same rod and main journal bearing sizes.
Anyone? Finally, although the valve from the 7M would obviously not
be appropriate in either the 4M or 5M (the 7M is a 24 valve engine),
I think that the 42mm wide 5M intake valves and seats could be used in
place of the 40mm wide 4M intake valves. The 5M valve is 2mm longer,
however, so I am not absolutely sure of this. Anyone? (The exaust
valves from the 4M and 5M are identical, BTW.
Probably some old Supra owners out there that would love to think they
could upgrade their 2563cc Supra's to 2954cc's, eh? Add some high
compression pistons and a healthy carb setup and I'm guessing that
you could probably come close to doubling the HP--the 4M is rated at
a weeny 110 hp, while the NA 7M is rated at 200 hp.
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 22:59:55 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: celicag@magicnet.net (Chris W. Morgan)
Subject: Sunchaser 20R rebuild
Hello Group!
A few months back I posted about rebuilding the motor in the Sunchaser. I
dont remember if I had made any posts since the project began. In the spirit
of the TM group I feel an update is do!
A month ago or so I pulled the motor and tranny as one unit in around 3
hours. Separated the tranny, pulled the clutch and pressure plate, and
mounted the motor on the stand for breakdown.
By the way this is a 1979 Celica Sunchaser Convertable which I've owned
since new. The 20R has 130k, a weber 32/36 proggressive and a cheap 4 into 1
header I bought a few years back for $25 from the junk yard.
After pulling the head and dropping the pan I began removing the pistons.
The very first one dropped out in my hand like the birth of a child from a
mother of six! This was a good sign. Absolutly no ridge at the top of the
bore. The piston skirts had no scuffs and mic'd fine. The other 3 slugs and
bores were ditto!
With the cam still in the head I checked the camshaft thrust clearance
which was fine (0.08-0.18mm,limit is 0.25mm), any more than the limit toss
the head. Put a straight edge on the head, block, and manifold surfaces
only to find out they were also sweet. Upon inspection of the crank and rod
bearings I found they were also in good shape except #4 rod bearing which
had gotten some trash in it and scored the bearing but the crank did'nt have
a mark on it! Life is good!
I spun the block over to check the bores with the dial bore and noticed
that the factory 60 degree cross hatch marks were still perfectly visible.
All bores were round and measured within standard limits.
I originally had visions of 92mm pistons and side drafts but after looking
over everything I decided not to bore it because of it being so straight. My
friend who owns Schuetrum Racing, a FULL service machine shop here in
Orlando, was standing next to me and said "This thing is so straight you
need to save your money on pistons,($300plus) and leave the factory machine
work alone!" This was fine with me because as I said before I've owned it
since new and plan on being buried in it so I have nothing but time.
All parts have been ordered from Mr Myer at Cyberspace Automotive
Performance and are as follows:
1.rebuild kit
a.Sealed Power oil pump
b.timing chain kit
c.rod bearings
d.main bearings
e.Gasket set
f.brass freeze plugs
g.Sealed power rings
h.thrustwasher set
2.Doug Thorley chrome tri-y header
3.Centerforce 1 clutch and pressure plate
4.Sealed power stock outer valve springs
5.Isky inner valve springs
6.American cams regrind (somewhere around 280/280/.441)
7.Weber progressive DGES Dual 38
8.K&N valve cover breather
9.crank and pulley repair sleeves
So the last few weeks I've been cleaning and painting parts and have got
the engine bay cleaned and painted flat black with Plasti-kote paint. I
highly recommend this product it is by far the best paint I've used.
The block is in the hot tank and I'll be port matching the head in the
next few weeks. That about it for now. Later!
Chris W Morgan
1979 Celica Sunchaser Convertable
1984 Celica GT Hatchback
1985 Celica GTS Convertable
celicag@magicnet.net
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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 18:31:18 +0200
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: "Kostas G. D. Chryssos "
Subject: Re: Gtech performance meter
More ...
I took the unit and modified it a bit.
I cut the power cable which feeds from the cigarette lighter...I am a
determined NON-SMOKER and have removed the lighter....anyway the cable is a
coiled one, rather hard and if stretched, tends to pull the unit down .
I cut it about 2 inches left on the unit (all the straight portion) and made
a small pack of batteries, 8 very small ones of 1.5 V each...total 12V put
them inside a heat shrinkable tubing and used two sided adhessive tape and
fixed it under the unit. Presto a self powered unit...draws about 40 ma in
operation, the pack will last for over 4 hours continues...seems perfect.
I could not wait to try it out. I took off to a close by highway but there
was substantial low speed traffic so I could not do much.
The LED display is a bit difficult to read in broad day-light but that is
the only draw back.
I tried 4 times to read the HP and it worked very good. The trials were
progressive, started out at low power... registered 60 HP, up to 245
HP...and I did NOT push the car at all. I have taken a dyno reading of 220
HP on the wheels which should give over 260...280 HP on the Gtech. I used a
3200 lib weight input (2900 for the car 93' mod, since I have upgraded the
brakes etc plus 100 for the gas and 200 for me...)
I think that if you under estimate the weight of the car you will get a
reading which will be lower than the actual one...which is ok...meaning that
your HP is actually higher...where if you overestimate the weight of the car
the reading will be higher than the actual one.
Now I will try to get the car weighted...full gas and me inside...find a
good stretch with NO traffic and take my valuable readings.
___________ ________________ ________
__ ___/__ | / /__< /___ __ )___ __/
_____ \ __ | / / __ / __ __ |__ /
____/ / __ |/ / _ / _ /_/ / _ /
/____/ _____/ /_/ /_____/ /_/
(Kostas G. D. Chryssos Ph.D.)
30,Ikarias str. Glyfada GR16675, Athens, Hellas
Tel: xx-301 9628212, Fax: xx-301 9628539
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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 20:56:45 +0100
From: Gianvalerio Giubilo
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
Hi, i am a new member of this mailing list.
I live in Rome, Italy and i am a software engeener.
I have a 1993 Red Mr2 Turbo.
For posting my email is brandol@mbox.vol.it
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Date: 18 Feb 96 16:26:41 EST
From: Alex Pun <75104.2070@compuserve.com>
To: "\"toyota-mods@cyberauto.c"
Subject: Wheels for '91 MR2T
I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo and am wondering what is the largest size wheel/tire
combination that will fit on my car. May be 17 or 18 inch wheels possibly?
Also I'd like some black wheels. I don't know what brand puts out black wheels.
I did see some on the Porsche in the current Motor Trend magazine. If anyone
has any news on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank
Alex
P.S. Is my car intercooled or is that only on the newer turbo MR2's?
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Date: 18 Feb 96 16:29:12 EST
From: Alex Pun <75104.2070@compuserve.com>
To: "\"toyota-mods@cyberauto.c"
Subject: Air intake
I have a 1991 MR2 turbo and am thinking about installing an air intake on it.
Would I have to get a fuel cut defencer for my car? What brands do you
recommend and about how much does it cost?
Thanks
Alex
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 08:55:11 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Pyyvaara
To: Raikkonen Timo
Cc: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Subject: RE: Flywheel (copper disk)...
On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Raikkonen Timo wrote:
> Anyway I didn't found it very smooth. Yes it was smooth when
> driving, but (again) the take off is not smooth! Actually I can't
> understand how could a metal disk be smooth? It really
> doesn't slip at all and if it does it will soon become "old one".
> Am I lost or am I really lost?
We have a three-button clutch-plate and have converted to hydraulic clutch
(all Corolla's here in the KE20/30 series at least had a cable mechanism)
- maybe that is the key. All I know is that my wife has no problem driving
it (unless her shoe gets caught in the carpet - but that is another story
- enough said that regardless of her misfortune she still beat my rally
car down the quarter mile :) - is not a toyota...
BTW, Took me a while to get through the Finnish version in your original
reply - and then I find you posted it in English to the list anyway :)
Still - good practice for when I finally get to Finland - hopefully this
year or next! Must try driving on snow....
Paul.
--
Paul Pyyvaara - paulp@Bond.edu.au
Senior Network Programmer - Information Technology Services
B O N D U N I V E R S I T Y, QLD, 4229, AUSTRALIA
Phone:(+61 7 5595 1412) Fax:(+61 7 5595 1456)
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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 21:13:03 -0800
From: Joe Ernst
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name: Joe Ernst
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Model: 1984 Supra
Engine: 5M-E (GE)?
Mods: None yet
email: joeje@iadfw.net
Thanks for subscribing me to your mailing list.
I come from a Ford background, having owned a 1967 Mustang which
was THOROUGHLY worked over. I recently sold it, as well as the 1993
Mustang 5.0L I was driving. I bought a 1984 red Supra as a replacement
(needed to lower the budget for awhile). As I am used to driving cars
with plenty of power, I'm sure I will dig into the Supra soon. This car
seems to have a good foundation to build upon. I would like to get the
car into the 250hp range. Any suggestions (besides Nitrous) would be
appreciated. (Does anyone know if the 7M-GE engine would fit in place
of the 5M-G? and what is the difference between the 5M-G and 5M-GE?)
Since I have only been driving a Toyota for 2 weeks, any information
about them, no matter how trivial, would help.
Thanks,
Joe
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From: Richard Leong
Subject: Starter
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 02:00:26 -0800 (PST)
I need some help and/or advice on this. Just this morning I started the
car to go to work, no problems. I came back to get something after 10
minutes, got it, then tried starting the car again, and all I could hear
was something like the sound of a plunger from the starter. No cranking
noise or anything. Oh, it just makes a humming noise too. It's happened
to me before, only before, while holding the ignition for 5 seconds or
so, it actually starts. This time, I had to call for help from BCAA. To
cut the story a little short, some guy
whacked the started with a hammer, and it started after a few cranks.
What I like to know is that, how much longer can I expect the starter to
last, to the point where striking it will no longer start it any more.
WOuld I be able to get away with it for a month? MOre? Just found out it
would cost $300 Cdn to fix that damn thing. It's also an inconvenience
when it doesn't start when you're in a real jam, like having to be late
for work already. Oh, the guy mentioned, if I couldn;t start it, I try
pushing the car, stick it into third, and starting it. I've never
actually pushed started a car before, I'm not very keen on it either. My
manual says it's sorta bad for the car. How bad is it really?
Richard
'86 Celica GTS
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From: Richard Leong
Subject: starter
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 02:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Forgive me, if I've posted this already. I forgot if I hit the right
option last time, so I'm writing this again to be sure. Anyways, the last
time I started the car, all I could hear was a "plunger-like" sound from
the starter plus a humming tone. It's happened before to me in the last
2 months or so, but before I could get it started after holding on the
ignition for 5 seconds or so, and it starts cranking. I had to call BCAA
this time to get it started. The guy whacked the started a couple of
times and I got it cranking in a couple of seconds. What I like to know
is that how long can I expect the starter to last now, to the point where
no amount of hammering to the started will get it started. I found out
it was quite costly to replace, $300 CDn. Can I expect to go a couple of
weeks, a month, more? Or could it just totally seize on me one day. The
guy also told me the next time it wouldn't start I could try pushing the
car, stab it in third, and start it. Is this good for the car? MY manual
says not. Is it worth it to push start the car if all else fails?
Richard
'86 Celica GTS
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 04:53:56 PST
From: wg%rm763a@riem.com (Wayne R. Graves)
Subject: RE: starter
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
I have both a 86 GTS and a 88 AlTrac. I have replaced starters on both cars
a couple of times and Batteries almost once a year in both cars since I bought
them. Always for the same reason, the starter would not work.
Try this, turn on your lights and hit the starter, see if your lights dim. If
your lights dim your not getting power from your battery to the starter. If They
Don't dim, your not engaging your selinoid(on the starter). I discovered that
my harness on my 1988 was droping about 3 volts at 15 amps in the wire going
to the selinoid. My solution was to go to target and buy a $2.95 relay and place
it between the the battery(with a fuse) and the selinoid and switch it on with
the power that was going to the selinoid. The car not only starts every time it
seems to turn over faster(there use to be a delay). I tested this idea before I
put the relay in place by(every time it failed to start) by placing a wire
between the selinoid lead on the starter up near the plus side of the battery
and just hitting the plus side with it(while out of gear with the ignition
still on). The car would always start. Now I'm sure if your not into eletricity
all this may seem complicated, but you asked, I had a problem like this and
thats how I fixed it.
Wayne
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To: "'Toyota Mod Mail List'"
From: Tony York
Subject: FEB '96 Fast Car Mag. Part 1 of 3
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:38:36 PST
As promised this is the article from the February '96 Fast Car magazine =
about
ignition amps, etc.
It comes in 3 parts.
Fast Car 'February 1996'
WE HAVE IGNITION!
We Treat A Corolla GTi To A Complete Ignition Upgrade - And There's Not =
A Chip
In Sight. Andrew Noakes Explains.
Talk about ignition system tuning and everybody thinks you mean chips. =
Or (if
they're into older, chipless vehicles) a re-curved dizzy. But there are =
other
ways to
improve ignition systems, without spending huge amounts of money or spend=
ing
three years doing a degree in electronics.
Successful ignition is a combination of two things. First, a spark with =
enough
power to ignite the air/fuel mixture in the cylinders. Second, correct =
timing
so that the
spark arrives at the plug at just the right moment.
Currently, most ignition tuning - like that the re-curved distributor =
or
re-mapped management - alters the timing of the spark. In road cars, the =
spark
will always
occur just before top dead centre (TDC) as the piston is rising on the =
compression stroke. Leaving the spark until the engine is close to TDC =
is often
the safe
option. It'll mean losing a bit of power, but poor fuel and irregular =
maintenance are going to cause less of a problem. Using better (i.e. high=
er
octane ) fuel, we can
'advance' the spark and get more power.
Advancing the spark means timing it to occur earlier in the cycle, giving=
the
fuel enough time to start burning. As it burns, the pressure on the pisto=
n
increases, and
if timing is right this will occur just as the piston reaches TDC and =
we'll get
the maximum amount of power.
But these methods of ignition tuning alter just the timing of the spark. =
While
the timing is critical to the way the engine performs, we can also make =
a
difference by
improving the quality of the spark itself. Boosting the power of the spar=
k
turns out to be fairly easy, and the benefits extend further than just =
the
handful of bhp
you're likely to get. You could also get better throttle response, better=
driveability and better starting.
To find out just what kind of difference we could make with some relative=
ly
cheap ignition upgrades, we selected a car that's got a lot going for =
it in
standard
form, but tends to be a bit pricey to tune - Toyota's Corolla GTi 16V, =
which
has basically the same 1587cc twin-cam motor as the old-shape MR2. This
example belongs to Raymond Goh, and is thoroughly standard and in excepti=
onal
condition. The extensive testing work, plus fitting and removing the kit =
that
we
tried, was entrusted to the workshop and rolling road dyno at Autosprint =
Birmingham, England.
BRIGHTER SPARKS
The main part of our test was to check out part of Crane Cams' range of =
ignition components. First was the PS91 high-power ignition coil. This =
is a
so-called 'E-
core' design, meaning that the core of coil has the shape of a letter =
E. Most
recent cars have coils like this - they're the small box-like coils which=
have
tended to
replace the old style can-like systems. The E-core coil has a 'closed =
magnetic
path' which means that less of the magnetic force is lost, and that means=
more
energy can be stored in the coil and delivered to the plug.
Also from Crane Cams was their HI2000 ignition amplifier, which boosts =
the
energy at the plug still further, and can produce a longer spark which =
gives an
even
better chance of burning all the available fuel.
As the final test, we tried bigger plug gaps, working on the assumption =
that if
the system now had more power it would be able to spark over a wide gap.
On top of all that, we also tested the effect of Splitfire spark plugs =
on the
standard car, and as part of the 'final' uprated ignition system.
It's interesting that the total cost for the lot is about the same as =
you'd pay
for a chip change. Does it make the same kind of difference ?
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "'Toyota Mod Mail List'"
From: Tony York
Subject: Feb '96 Fast Car Mag. Part 2 of 3
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:40:16 PST
Part 2:
TEST 1.
STANDARD IGNITION SYSTEM & PLUGS.
In completely standard form, the Toyota recorded 104bhp at the wheels
on the rolling road at Autosprint.
That's pretty good, indicating an output at the flywheel a few
notches up on the claimed 112bhp. Even in standard form, though, the
16-valve motor showed it's
preference for high revs, with a big step in the power curve around
4500rpm.
Looking at the standard ignition system we've got a modern
high-energy coil, low-loss HT leads and high quality Nippondenso
platinum-tipped plugs - probably
one of the best 'conventional' plugs around.
TEST 2.
CRANE PS91 COIL & STANDARD PLUGS.
Crane's PS91 coil is claimed to deliver up to 70% more energy to the
plugs than standard-spec coils. There's probably less of an advantage
over the Toyota's
modern high energy electronic ignition, but even so we still recorded
1-2bhp more from 5000rpm upwards. At higher revs the standard coil is
more likely to run
out of puff because it has less time to charge up, so it's at the top
end of the rev-range that the PS91 shows its advantage on the
rollers. On the road the greater
spark energy should also help to ignite the weaker less well-mixed
air/fuel mixtures found during part-throttle operation, making the
car more driveable. We
couldn't tell from this car, but on later vehicles equipped with
exhaust re-circulation (EGR) to reduce emissions, the fatter spark
should improve driveability. And
the same applies to the cars running hot cams and suffering from poor
idle and low-load performance.
TEST 3.
CRANE PS91 COIL, HI2000 AMP & STANDARD PLUGS.
Adding the HI2000 amplifier gave us about 2bhp more all the way
through the rev range. That's not bad going when you remember that we
haven't changed the
ignition timing at all. And yet its yet more impressive when you
realise that these test ended up being performed in less favourable
weather conditions, and might
be a bit pessimistic.
Although we couldn't measure torque figures, 2bhp at low revs will
probably be worth 5lbft or so. That's well worth having, particularly
on an engine which only
gives of its best at high revs in standard form.
Wiring is simple - PS91 coil is practically a direct replacement
item, and HI2000 is easy to plumb in.
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "'Toyota Mod Mail List'"
From: Tony York
Subject: Feb '96 Fast Car Mag. Part 3 of 3
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 08:41:43 PST
Part 3:
TEST 4.
PS91, HI2000 AND 42THOU PLUG GAPS.
This is where we took a leap in the dark. Assuming that the crane
coil and ignition amp were producing extra engine power by delivering
more energy to the
spark, we tried widening the plug gaps from the standard 32thou
(0.8mm) to 42thou (1.05mm). A bigger gap means bigger spark, but
requires more energy for
the current to jump the gap. We reckon that the higher power ignition
system should be able to handle a bigger gap reliably.
And it did, sort of. Widening the gaps by 10thou (0.25mm) gave us
another 2-3bhp at the top end, though we also lost 1bhp or so up to
4500rpm. More
developement time would give us the chance to play with the plug gaps
in more detail. That might mean we could find a setting where we
could get most or all of
the top end power with little or no loss at the bottom.
TEST 5.
SPLITFIRE PLUGS.
Splitfire plugs are unique in having a V-shaped earth electrode,
which is supposed to give the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder more
chance to get at the flame kernel
produced by the spark. That's said to improve combustion and have a
positive effect on power, economy and emissions. The downside is that
the plugs
themselves are very expensive compared to more conventional designs,
costing around 27 pounds for a set of four.
They do appear to be well-made, though, which goes some way towards
justifying their high price. But we knew that their very individual
design would have to
go some to find an advantage over the high-quality standard plugs.
With the standard ignition system, we couldn't detect much of a power
difference between splitfires and the standard Nippondenso plugs. If
anything the splitfires
actually lose a little. With the Crane coil and ignition amp fitted,
and the standard gaps still in use, again the Nippondenso plugs had a
slight edge. But when we
opened out the plug gaps to 42thou (1.05mm) the Splitfires gave us up
to 1bhp more at the bottom end (up to 4000rpm), and then dropped
behind again at high
revs.
Raymond, the owner of the car, also checked out the difference
between the two sets of plugs on the road. The Splitfires certainly
seemed more driveable at
'normal' engine speeds, even if they didn't give an increase in peak
power.
Couple all this with the fact that we have seen Splitfires give more
power on some cars, and the situation just becomes even more
confusing. Just remember, if
you fit a set, that while a bit more mid-range punch is no bad thing,
it's not at all the same as extra peak power.
CONCLUSIONS.
If you're going to be pedantic about it, our Crane ignition uprate
netted us 3-4bhp. But bending the spark plugs about costs nothing and
isn't really very difficult. If
you assume that the Crane-boosted ignition is allowing us to run
bigger gaps, then you can conclude that we've gained 6bhp or more at
the wheels. If the standard
car was producing the claimed 112bhp, then our car is now up to
119bhp or so. When you consider the costs involved - 77pounds for the
PS91 coil, and
140pounds for the HI2000 amp - that's pretty cheap horsepower.
Boosting the ignition system in this way also increases potential for
the future. For example, because the greater ignition energy should
help the engine burn off iffy
mixtures at part throttle, the negative effects of a performance cam
are lessened. And all those other ignition tuning strategies we
talked about earlier - like chips -
are still available if we want them. Sounds like a great way to get
your engine tuning off the launch pad ...
CONTACTS:
Autosprint - 0121 236 5133 (England)
Crane Cams - 01938 556614 (England)
Splitfire - 01562 822699 (England)
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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From: Gary Hong
To: leongc@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Starter
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:19:28 PST
Sounds like a starter solenoid problem. Check out my previous postings on
this list as well as the supra and toyota list.
Gary
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From: Gary Hong
To: rm763a!wg@riem.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: starter
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 15:37:54 PST
From: "Wayne R. Graves"
>
> I have both a 86 GTS and a 88 AlTrac. I have replaced starters on both cars
>a couple of times and Batteries almost once a year in both cars since I bought
>them. Always for the same reason, the starter would not work.
> Try this, turn on your lights and hit the starter, see if your lights dim. If
>your lights dim your not getting power from your battery to the starter. If They
>Don't dim, your not engaging your selinoid(on the starter). I discovered that
>my harness on my 1988 was droping about 3 volts at 15 amps in the wire going
>to the selinoid. My solution was to go to target and buy a $2.95 relay and place
>it between the the battery(with a fuse) and the selinoid and switch it on with
>the power that was going to the selinoid. The car not only starts every time it
>seems to turn over faster(there use to be a delay). I tested this idea before I
>put the relay in place by(every time it failed to start) by placing a wire
>between the selinoid lead on the starter up near the plus side of the battery
>and just hitting the plus side with it(while out of gear with the ignition
>still on). The car would always start. Now I'm sure if your not into eletricity
>all this may seem complicated, but you asked, I had a problem like this and
>thats how I fixed it.
> Wayne
Wayne,
Sounds like you have worn out solenoid contacts. Since you have a work around,
you can stick with it or if you want to fix it, go to an alternator/electric
motor store and buy the pair of copper contacts.
Gary
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:50:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Buhr
Subject: 7MGTE fuel system upgrade
To: Toyota Supras Mailing List ,
When I finally get my motor back together, I think I'm going to go
ahead and get a fuel system upgrade. Lance at Toyomoto recommends the
Lexus V8 airflow meter & injectors, plus a 300ZX TT fuel pump and an HKS
Fuel Cut Defencer. This would cost about $1600, versus about $1000 for an
HKS FCON + $1600 for the HKS injectors = $2600. What I can't figure out
is why the FCD is necessary with this set-up.
The purpose of the FCD in general: on most turbocharged cars the
ECU will cut fuel flow if it determines that the incoming airflow exceeds
a certain amount (indicating overboost condition and possible impending
engine damage). As I understand it, the FCD clips the airflow signal
below the fuel-cut off value. The problem then is that the airflow keeps
increasing, but the ECU doesn't know that and only delivers fuel for the
lower, FCD-limited airflow value. That's why HKS pretty much requires
that you use an FCON with the FCD. The FCON has it's own pressure sensor
separate than any of the stock engine controls, so that it can read the
pressure itself and increase the fuel signal (injector pulse width) to
compensate for the additional airflow that the ECU knows nothing about.
Anyway, the idea behind the Lexus airflow meter and injectors is
this: the Lexus airflow meter is bigger, so that for a given airflow
amount it will deliver a smaller signal than the stock 7MGTE airflow
meter. This works well with the Lexus injectors, because they are bigger
than 7MGTE, so that at a given injector pulse width the Lexus injectors
will flow more fuel. The lower airflow signal from the Lexus airflow
meter delivers the smaller, correct signal for the larger injectors, and
that airflow signal is below the ECU danger threshold. So a) why is the
FCD necessary, and b) if it is necessary what is done so that additional
fuel is supplied above the FCD airflow limit?
Anyone have any ideas?
Aaron B.
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 21:24:11 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: TRD Header for 4AGE
Hi folks!
I have a question for those of you who have installed the TRD header (or any
header for that matter) on the 4AGE engine. Before winter I purchased the
TRD header for my MR2, and at the exhaust ports the finish is not real
smooth. The contact surface where the header meets the head is smooth around
the ports, but the entrance into the header isn't what I'd consider oval.
There are some welds that extend into the port opening and it is somewhat
uneven. I will be installing the header and my new HKS exhaust this spring,
so I have a little time to play with this.
Question: Is it worth it for me to grab my trusty Dremel and some grinding
bits and "port" the header? I'm inclined to say yes, but I thought I'd get
some opinions from some experienced gurus... :) I imagine the best way
would be to match the header to the gasket (I don't have the luxury of having
the head off the car), or I could simply smooth the ports. Of course, if
there is no gain from doing this I'll save the effort.
Comments? Suggestions?
Dave
1986 MR2 -- snow is melting!!! :D
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From: Raikkonen Timo
To: "Toyota-Mods-mailin'list"
Cc: "'Paul Pyyvaara'"
Subject: RE: Flywheel (copper disk)...
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 18:55:00 PST
High Paul!
Well... I had hydraulic system too, never had any wire systems. My
present car also has hydraulic system and the copper disc didn't act
smoothly. I just wonder, how could these experiences be so different
from each other? I think we had almost the same installations - and u
have even more accressive plate (the "3 wing" model) than I did
(the "4 wing model" with springs). I'm lost again :)
But I'm really happy if u are satisfied with your clutch! I just wonder
what was wrong with mine (two clutch models and even in different
cars)?
-Timo-
PS. My ex. girl friend also drived the copper clutch with no problem.
One could drive the car (except my father:), but it wasn't as smooth
as stock.
----------
From: toyota-mods-owner
To: Raikkonen Timo
Cc: Toyota-Mods-mailin'list
Subject: RE: Flywheel (copper disk)...
Date: 19. 02. 1996 8:55
On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, Raikkonen Timo wrote:
> Anyway I didn't found it very smooth. Yes it was smooth when
> driving, but (again) the take off is not smooth! Actually I can't
> understand how could a metal disk be smooth? It really
> doesn't slip at all and if it does it will soon become "old one".
> Am I lost or am I really lost?
We have a three-button clutch-plate and have converted to hydraulic clutch
(all Corolla's here in the KE20/30 series at least had a cable mechanism)
- maybe that is the key. All I know is that my wife has no problem driving
it (unless her shoe gets caught in the carpet - but that is another story
- enough said that regardless of her misfortune she still beat my rally
car down the quarter mile :) - is not a toyota...
BTW, Took me a while to get through the Finnish version in your original
reply - and then I find you posted it in English to the list anyway :)
Still - good practice for when I finally get to Finland - hopefully this
year or next! Must try driving on snow....
Paul.
--
Paul Pyyvaara - paulp@Bond.edu.au
Senior Network Programmer - Information Technology Services
B O N D U N I V E R S I T Y, QLD, 4229, AUSTRALIA
Phone:(+61 7 5595 1412) Fax:(+61 7 5595 1456)
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Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 22:23:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Buhr
Subject: Re: turbo f/s
To: supraman
Cc: supras@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, supraman wrote:
> The best suggestion I can give you is to get as far away from toyomoto
> as humanly possible. I would only go to a professional race engine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> builder for your car. If you have some hack work on it you get your
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not meaning anything to you by it, but I don't know whether to
laugh or cry at that underlined part. I _just had_ my engine rebuilt by
a professional race engine builder, and the thing lasted two weeks before
blowing out another rod bearing. Anyway, like I said, I'm certainly not
knocking your advice, but I've already tried someone who was a known race
engine builder and it didn't work out. After that, I insisted on finding
someone here in Florida that actually had constructed a high-performance
7MGTE before, and the only person who I could find that actually had done
that in this area was Lance with Toyomoto. FWIW.
Aaron B.
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 00:33:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Craig A Terlau
To: Golf1par@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: TRD Header for 4AGE
Yes! Clean up the header where it mates with the exhaust ports. I do this
with every header I install. I use a 1/2 or 3/8 inch drum sander wheel
with a coarse drum to do this. The long 1.5 inch drums are very easy to
use for this. I chuch it in a drill press and while it is spinning I
grasp the header and work it against the drum. Clean up any welds and
irregularities on the header flange but be careful not to hit the mating
surface or the inner wall of the header tubing. You may also want to use
some port-matching procedure as described in the book "Design and Tuning
of Competition Engines" and others. I feel it is ok for the header flange
opening to be slightly larger than the exhaust port opening, but NOT
smaller.
Criag.
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 01:29:03 PST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: Brett Fraser
Subject: See ya in 6..
See you all again in 6 months .. Plane leaves here 5:45 PM Local time for
Amsterdam .. (which, coincidentally, has been having the most snow its had
in 10 years (groan)).
When I return Im either going to bite the bullet and get a loan and search
for an 88 Celica Turbo 4WD, or (if my roomie buys a 70-77 Celica to replace
his dead MR2) an 70? (or was it 72 for the first year) - 74 (lighter weight
than the 75+ Im told..)
Maybe track me down one of those 18RG's Ive heard so much about, should
anyone in Western Canada hear about an 88 Turbo for sale in the next
6 months please email this acct or the list with what price the owner
was asking .. someone will be getting all the msgs for me :)
Thanks all, see ya later.
Brett Fraser
Ex-83 Celica GTS Coupe. (The scrapyard bought it for 300$ from the insurance
company.. after I got my stereo out..)
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From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: Pop off valves for TO3 turbo
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 12:23:41 +0200 (EET)
> I've had an enquiry from someone who is putting a TO3 on a datsun engine
> (L20B). Now, I know it's not a toyota, but all he wants is info on pop/blow
> off valves, so I thought you guys might be able to help.
>
> I have an HKS catalogue, which lists things like:
> Adjustable pop-off valve (3.5-9 psi, 6-12 psi, 7-14 psi, 12-18 psi)
> Pop-off valve spring (same psi ranges)
> Gaskets etc
>
> So, what does he need, what info does he need to determine which one etc etc
> (I assume he just picks the right psi.) ..... does size/fitting matter? etc
> etc
I'd like opinions and help in picking up a blow off/dump/compressor bypass/
whatever/ -valve too. However, 18psi IS JUST NOT ENOUGH. Some of
you with factory turbo engines had a bypass valve from the factory,
I wasn't that fortunate and therefore I'm now with a heavily oil-leaking
CT20 turbo which I'll replace next week with a T3 (which will recieve a
more suitable compressor housing and wheel slightly later).
As I'm not too fond of destroying more turbos, I need a blow off valve
for up to 280hp / 25psi. Cool appearance or sounds don't matter,
cost does...
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 06:40:25 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: Air intake
>I have a 1991 MR2 turbo and am thinking about installing an air intake on it.
>Would I have to get a fuel cut defencer for my car? What brands do you
>recommend and about how much does it cost?
K&N makes a regular filtercharger filter for your MR2, but they haven't
yet released their FIPK, which is a complete replacement of the air
intake. HKS has the Power Flow system for your car, however. Neither
will require the purchase of a fuel cut defencer. This is just necessary
if you install something that allows you to run overboost on your engine
so that the engine doesn't cut off at standard boost levels.
Check out the MR2 home page at www.mr2.com for more info!
Chris
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:43:07 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: Pop off valves for TO3 turbo
>Any prices Chris?
Well, since she asked so nicely! Wastegate, blowoff valves, and guages
from GReddy and HKS:
GReddy Blow-Off Valves:
R type, stiff spring, 370100, $229.10
R type, standard spring, 370101, $229.10
S type, standard spring, 370110, $204.53
Stiff spring (like that in 370100), 370112, $33.82
(Flanges and outlet pipes also available--send email.)
S type kit for SW20, (370123), $261.82
GReddy Boost Guages:
52mm Mechanical, Black Face, 370037, $129.28
60mm Mechanical, Black Face, 370064, $137.46
60mm Electrical, Black Face, 370053, $276.54
Guage Mounts: 52mm $3.00, 60mm $6.00
HKS Boost Meters:
46mm:
Standard, (Orange) 4490EC-90000X, $132.95
52mm:
Standard, (Orange), 4080EC-90000X, $76.90
Standard, (White), 4081EC-90000X, $76.90
60mm:
Standard, (Orange), 4180EC-90000X, $131.08
Standard, (White), 4181EC-90000X, $131.08
Peak Hold Warning, (Orange), 4480EC-90000X, $306.86
Peak Hold Warning, (White), 4480EC-90000X-W, $306.86
80mm:
Peak Hold Warning, (Orange), 4390EC-90000X, $472.50
HKS Wastegates and Blow-Off Valves:
Standard Wastegates, $297.85:
5.7 psi, 6570RA-00140X
9.5 psi, 6570RA-00268X
10.0 psi, 6570RA-00372X
14.0 psi, 6570RA-00480X
15.5 psi, 6570RA-0051KX
Special Racing Wastegates $737.40:
9.0 psi, 6575RA-00268X
10.0 psi, 6575RA-00372X
14.0 psi, 6575RA-00480X
15.5 psi, 6575RA-0051KX
Special Racing Wastegates (Stainless) $748.84:
10.0 psi, 6575RA-00372X-S
14.0 psi, 6575RA-00480X-S
15.5 psi, 6575RA-0051KX-S
Standard Blow-Off Valves: $69.95
Racing Blow-Off Valves: $149.95
Chris
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:46:26 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: See ya in 6..
Brett:
Get you the old Celica and then get the 18RG from Jeff at Toyz Unlimited.
He seems to have an in with Mr. Toyoda and gets these really cheap.
BTW, I've found an old 76 or 77 hatchback that's going to be my dream
car. Now if I can only contact the owner and convince him to part with
it!
Chris
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To: "gary friedman"
Cc: toyota-mods
From: "john.limcangco"
Date: 20 Feb 96 10:37:14
Subject: US driving lights & turbo-timer finally got me
Why not use the 'hard' switch on the parking brake? Ok, granted that it is
'on' when vertical, and 'off' when horizontal -- you can use a two-pole Bosch
relay to wire it such a way that the relay goes 'off' when energized.
Hook up the 'coil' side of the relay between a +12 volt source (that is live
when the ignition is on) and the other spliced to the parking brake switch. On
the 'switch' side of the relay, hook up the common pole to same +12 volt
source; hook up the driving light's ignition-trigger to the Normally-Closed
(NC) pole of the relay.
Engaging the parking brake with the ignition on will energize the relay --
which will pull the relay's switch OPEN. Effectively sending an OFF signal to
the ignition-trigger.
Assumptions:
- The parking brake switch 'goes to ground' when on.
- The driving light's ignition-trigger sees +12 volts as an ignition-ON signal,
and 0 volts as an ignition-OFF.
- The turbo timer sends +12 volts to the ignition circuit when operating .
Potential downside:
- You would have to engage your parking brake before your turn the ignition
off (in case you don't activate the turbo timer everytime). You can connect to
a constant 12 volt source to alleviate this problem, although you will have a
small current drain since the relay is always 'energized' whenever the parking
brake is engaged.
You can really have a lot of fun with those Bosch relays -- reversing switch
status is just one .... you can even switch polarities. Have you tried
hooking up your alarm to your factory horns -- alternating between low horn
tone and high horn tone? Fun! =)
Hope that helps,
John Limcangco
Manila, Philippines
79 Cressida 18RG
Personally, I turn everything off (AC, stereo, lights - mental checklist;
special instructions), rev the engine a few times, before turning the engine
off. Problem happens when I loan the car to someone else.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To: mr2-digest @ cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ internet, toyota-mods @
cyberspace.cyberauto.com @ internet
cc: (bcc: John Limcangco)
From: gfriedmn @ ipof.fla.net ("Gary Friedman") @ internet
Date: 02/12/96 11:53 PM
Subject: US driving lights & turbo-timer finally got me
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I've had my turbo-timer since Sept/95 and I've always remembered to turn the
driving lights off when leaving the timer running.... That is until
yesterday.... Went to start my car yesterday AM and battery was as
dead as the energizer bunny isn't. Jump start and two hours at the
service station charging it back up. I"M WANNA GO CANADIAN!!!!
****Tell Me What You Think Of These Ideas****
Solution 1:
Given that there is an ignition-off/door-open shut-off now
(US spec car), why not figure out which wire at the ignition
level triggers off status and splice in a loop to a mercury
switch siliconed to the parking brake??? Brake handle
vertical=off, horizontal=on. Yes, I know inertia will cause
mercury to roll when horizontal-- haven't figured that part
out yet!! Maybe some kind of position sensor similar to a
mercury switch.
This would be a safety net, would appear to be a simple
solution if we are dealing with relay-level tiny amperage,
and may not require as much wiring work as trying to switch
to a Canadian driving light circuit.
Feedback??
Gary
93 MR2-T
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To: Marc "L." Summers-SysAdmin ,
From: Tony York
Subject: Re: Feb '96 Fast Car Mag.
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 08:33:34 PST
I found the article very interesting, but it would be
more interesting if they had done this test with a
Turbo charged car, and also checked if indexing the plugs
made any difference.
Even with the Crane HI-6 and the Crane E core coil
I would find it very difficult to believe, from the tests
that I have done, that they would be able to open up
the gap to any extent at all above stock gap settings.
I don't think the even the Crane HI-6 can punch through
14 lbs of boost.
Thanks.
--
+ ------------------------------------------------- +
+ +++ N E C +++ +++ A M E R I C A +++ +
+ ------------------------------------------------- +
+ Marc L. Summers System Administrator +
+ 3100 N.E. Shute Road Hillsboro Oregon 97124 +
+ PH: 1-503-681-3338 FAX: 1-503-681-3304 +
+ Email: marcs@tdd.hbo.nec.com +
+ ---------- Sic transit gloria mundi. ------------ +
+ --- "Thus passes away the glory of the world." -- +
+ ------------------------------------------------- +
=========================
Hi Mark,
Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of having the
turbo'd version of the 4A-GE engine. I think there are about 3 or 4
in the country and some of these are conversions by Turbo
Technics, we also only have about 5 of the supercharged MR2's (MK1).
That's why they did the article on the standard unit.
Tony York
Radstone Technology Plc
Water Lane
Towcester
Northants
England
NN12 6JN
Tel: 01327 359444 Ext:2389
Fax: 01327 358113
Email: york@radstone.co.uk
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:35:27 -0600
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: mbedford@indiana.edu (Monte Bedford)
Subject: backposts to Aug. '95
If for any reason you want to look at backposts, for each month from Jan.
'96 back to Aug. '95, I would be happy to send you one or all. Dec. '95
and Jan. '96 (and Feb. '96) have a nifty table of contents by thread name.
I can send just the table of contents, if you prefer.
Monte
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 21:49:09 -0500
From: mdowe@wchat.on.ca
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 7MGTE fuel system upgrade
>
> When I finally get my motor back together, I think I'm going to go
>that airflow signal is below the ECU danger threshold. So a) why is the
>FCD necessary, and b) if it is necessary what is done so that additional
>fuel is supplied above the FCD airflow limit?
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
I am not familiar with any devices to eliminate the fuel cut. I know of a 91
MR2 Turbo that had the wastegate mechanically locked shut. The car was used
as a race car.
They got around that problem by putting a small bearing in the hose to the
turbo pressure sensor. This is not a proper fix, and is the only thing that
I noticed on the car. The car had a proper vacuum/pressure gauge to replace
the stock one.
In races the car would overheat, head gaskets were replaced regularly, but
no mechanical failures were experienced.
Mike Dowe
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Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 20:02:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Adrienne Mora
Subject: Pop off valves for TO3 turbo
To: Toyota Mods
Cc: Chris Myer
Hi there all.
I've had an enquiry from someone who is putting a TO3 on a datsun engine
(L20B). Now, I know it's not a toyota, but all he wants is info on pop/blow
off valves, so I thought you guys might be able to help.
I have an HKS catalogue, which lists things like:
Adjustable pop-off valve (3.5-9 psi, 6-12 psi, 7-14 psi, 12-18 psi)
Pop-off valve spring (same psi ranges)
Gaskets etc
So, what does he need, what info does he need to determine which one etc etc
(I assume he just picks the right psi.) ..... does size/fitting matter? etc
etc
Any helpers?
Any prices Chris?
Thanks heaps
Ade
'86 SC T-Top MR2 ...... now wanting more power >: )
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 21:24:36 +1100
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bilzilla@zeta.org.au (Bill Sherwood)
Subject: Re: TRD Header for 4AGE
>Hi folks!
>
>I have a question for those of you who have installed the TRD header (or any
>header for that matter) on the 4AGE engine. Before winter I purchased the
>TRD header for my MR2, and at the exhaust ports the finish is not real
>smooth. The contact surface where the header meets the head is smooth around
>the ports, but the entrance into the header isn't what I'd consider oval.
> There are some welds that extend into the port opening and it is somewhat
>uneven. I will be installing the header and my new HKS exhaust this spring,
>so I have a little time to play with this.
>
>Question: Is it worth it for me to grab my trusty Dremel and some grinding
>bits and "port" the header? I'm inclined to say yes, but I thought I'd get
>some opinions from some experienced gurus... :) I imagine the best way
>would be to match the header to the gasket (I don't have the luxury of having
>the head off the car), or I could simply smooth the ports. Of course, if
>there is no gain from doing this I'll save the effort.
>
>Comments? Suggestions?
>
>Dave
>1986 MR2 -- snow is melting!!! :D
>
Yep, the solution is quite easy - don't use the new pipes at all - just put
the standard cast-iron manifold back on and sell the fancy TRD ones. The
standard item will almost invariably out-perform specialist gear, even if
the advertisement says stuff like, "5 hp increase" - they may well give a 5
hp increase, but will most probably LOSE power in a lot of other places.
Of all the dyno tests I've heard about, the standard manifold usually works
better than anything else.
The B Man.
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 12:44:48 EST
From: "MAGEETC1"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Tom Magee/85 Supra
Here is my new subscribee info per request:
Tom Magee
Sykesville, MD
85 Supra
5MGE
tom.magee@jhuapl.edu
My car has 178,000 miles. I've done all my own repair work as listed
below. I've only done very minor mods such as air flow potentiometer,
cat conv, antisway bars, shocks and struts, K and N air filter. I'm
interested in learning about other mods I can do to this car.
Repairs performed
clutch (my fault)
security system
CD player/speakers
windshield wiper leakage broke
positive battery terminal
alternator brushes, 95,000
power antenna failed due to internal rust from water
vacuum switching valve for heater
heater blower motor brushes, 112,000
brake pads (1st time at 115,000 mi)
thermostat, 120,000
electronic ignition module, 121,000
timing belt, 121,000
parking brake cable broke, 123,000
exhaust system (twice), (don't buy Dobi)
rebuilt clutch master cylinder (still leaks)
replaced front shock struts
replaced rear shocks
replaced rear anti sway bar with ADDCO (it broke off the bracket)
replaced differential (bad pinion bearing), 155,000
replaced steering gear assembly and tie rods
replaced front wheel bearings
A/C compressor failed (not repaired yet)
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:46:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Adrienne Mora
Subject: Turbo problems on MR2
To: "'MR2 announce'" ,
Ok. here's a problem for you gurus out there.
I've been contacted by a service centre that has an MR2 to fix. It's off a
car lot and has been sold but has the following problem that they are trying
to fix:
When boost is just starting to build up, and when you take your foot off the
gas when under boost, there is a "ppffft ... bang" noise. I know it's REAL
hard to explain noises, but he said it's worse when the tubing to the airbox
is off. The car has a turbo timer and about 49K kms. It's an early MKII.
(solid roof too!! )
The mechanic has sealed off the 'turbo' pipes and tested for leaks, found a
few and fixed them, but it didn't fix the problem. We both assume it's the
'flutter' valve (i don't know what you call it) that lets off the pressure
when you take your foot off the gas under full boost, and circulates it back
thru the airbox (?) and turbo. He had another turbo MR2 in the shop, so
swopped the 'valve' ... the other MR2 didn't have the same prob so we assume
the valve is ok, but it made no difference to the 'broken' MR2.
any suggestions???
Thanks heaps
BTW ... please reply directly back to me as we need any help ASAP.
Ade
adem@wairc.govt.nz
New Zealand
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 17:17:28 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: pah112@psu.edu (Peter A Howard)
Subject: Strange "No Idle" in a carbed 20R
Fellow Toyota owners,
I own a 1979 Toyota Celica with a 1980 20R block with the 1979 carb and
manifolds. I bought a used 1980 20R block and head because it was cheaper
to do this than get the timing chain and tensioners fixed. I put in a 1982
clutch disc as well. Yes, I performed the transplant myself. I added the
original intake and exhaust manifold.
I am getting a very strange no idle condition that is becoming
progressively worse (meaning more frequent). I will try to describe the
problem as accurately as possible, and I am sure that someone will
recognize it and solve this mystery.
If I coast at a moderate speed down hill with the throttle just barely
cracked open, I get some mild backfire (not loud at all) that seems to be
exiting the carb. If this continues, the engine will die if the clutch is
put in and the engine allowed to idle (it would idle if this problem didn't
exist, but it dies). Basically it goes like this: driving along, feel
some severe bucking and hesitation, push the clutch in to shift or to stop,
the engine dies.
The strangest part of this problem is that if I rev the engine above idle
speed (around 1200-2000 rpms) and hold the throttle at this position, the
engine will continue to run. This would be fine with me, but I have to use
my right foot to hold the throttle open, and then use my left foot to brake
and shift. Ususally this is not a problem, but this stalling out usually
occurs at the most inopportune time such as in heavy stop and go traffic
and on crowded city streets.
I should note that this problem can occur on steady cruising speeds such as
the freeway. I am tipped off that the engine may not idle when I come to a
stop by severe bucking of the car. It feels like the ignition is cutting
out or the car is running out of fuel.
My Celica has 198,000 miles on it and is a joy to drive because it is so
damn reliable. This problem has plauged me for several years now, and I
would like to clear this mystery up.
I have done the following: replaced PCV valve, fuel filter, fuel pump
(with a junk-yard one), and checked the screen on the fuel pump. I have
limited the problem to these areas: fuel system, carb, or ignition.
Please email me directly because I am not a member of the list, and I
probably should be. Send to pah112@psu.edu If I have been unclear, please
ask for clarification.
Thanks again,
Peter Howard 87 Supra Turbo 79 Celica Yes I like Toyotas!
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From: Gary Hong
To: pah112@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Strange "No Idle" in a carbed 20R
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 16:06:22 PST
From: Peter A Howard
>
>Fellow Toyota owners,
>
>I own a 1979 Toyota Celica with a 1980 20R block with the 1979 carb and
>manifolds. I bought a used 1980 20R block and head because it was cheaper
>to do this than get the timing chain and tensioners fixed. I put in a 1982
>clutch disc as well. Yes, I performed the transplant myself. I added the
>original intake and exhaust manifold.
How about just taking the timing chain and tensioner from the used 20R block
and putting it in your "good" engine?
Gary
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 21:37:50 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: Want to mod a '93 MR2
>Next he wants to know
>about after market brakes and if the '93 turbo calipers and rotors fit
>on his '93 non-turbo.
I think that rotors are different, both front and back. The rear
brake pads are the same, indicating that the calipers are the same,
but the fronts are different. I am sure that you could switch everything
between the two cars, but I just don't know how far you must go to
do the switch, ie, you may have to replace the entire hub and maybe
even the strut to use the rotors and calipers from the Turbo. Here
are the Stillen part numbers I used to make these educated guesses:
Stillen Sport Rotor Sets:
90-94 NA, 90-91 Turbo
Front, TOY1100, $226.69
Rear, TOY1101, $263.25
92-94 Turbo
Front, TOY1200, $299.00
Rear, TOY1201, $264.06
Stillen/Metal Master Brake Pads:
91-93 NA
Front, D507M, $40.48
Rear, D766M, $62.93
92-94 Turbo
Front, D789SM, $37.13
Rear, D766M, $62.93
Chris
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 00:30:24 -0600 (CST)
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: minkor19@iadfw.net (Bryan Carlson)
Subject: 91 MR2 Turbo
I am about to make some modifications to my car in order to increase
performance. My goal is to maximize the potential of the car without
reducing drivability and reliability.
Here is what has been suggested.
the Greddy Profec, and Greddy Fule Cut Eliminator
so that I can get more boost from the turbo
Nology Hot Wires, and Beru Silver Plugs and also a Nology Power Core, and a
Nology Coil.
to upgrade the ignition and insure a hot spark. Is this about it? Will
this get me what I want. ( I really don't need that much more pwer and with
the adjustable boost I can dial up what I need depending on weather and
driving conditions)
I was considering switching wheels but I am not sure what I could gain
without making the speedometer inaacurate or compromising the ride of the
car. Anyone have any suggestions there. What are the best grabbing tires
that fit the 91' alloys? I still will need some all weather ability (wet
mainly, not much snow in Texas)
Thanks,
Bryan Carlson
91' Black MR2 MkII Turbo
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 18:04:17 0000
From: Sean Simmen
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Want to mod a '93 MR2
Hi, a friend wanted me to ask you guys for some help- he just bought a
'93 non-turbo MR2. He wants to know what tire and wheel mods are
available (15"-18"?) and what the trade offs are. Next he wants to know
about after market brakes and if the '93 turbo calipers and rotors fit
on his '93 non-turbo. He also wants to know if it is possible to
install the '93 turbo transmission and rear end. Are there any
suspension upgrades, too? And last, but not least, a shift kit. Why
didn't he just buy a turbo? Well, he's 23 with lots of tickets and the
insurance company laughed at him when he asked for a quote :-)
Thanks for any help!
Sean '80 928
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 15:57:28 EST
From: "Christopher T. Berchin"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
Hello! I'm a new member of the Toyota-mods list. I'm a Product Design
Engineer for one of the Big Three, I live in Dearborn, Michigan, and
I have a 1988 Toyota MR2 with a 4A-GE engine. I have a TRD header,
Monza exhaust, K&N air intake system, and Addco anti-sway bars. I
will be installing camshafts, large injectors, and adjustible cam gears
this summer, and I participate in Solo II events locally. I have tinked
with Hondas in the past (1st-gen CRXs to be specific) and now am learning
how to speak Toyota. I look forward to the info on this board!
Christopher T. Berchin
Closures Panel Technology Phone: (313) 31-74946
Internet: cberchin.ford@e-mail.com Fax: (313) 84-55424
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:58:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Roy Mongiovi
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Trust exhausts?
Does anyone have any (educated) opinions on the quality and performance
of Trust exhausts? Thanks.
Roy
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 14:48:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Adrienne Mora
Subject: RE: Turbocharger Problem
To: "'Cal'" , kca ,
Well, more on this turbo problem.
I went out today and went for a ride in the car ..... we spent about 1/2 an
hour doing start/stop runs ... trying to hear this darn noise ... and to
tell you the truth .. I couldn't really hear it!! The mechanic said it was
more noticable with the airbox undone ...
Well, even if I can't hear it ... I'll assume it's still there. It
apparently happens from about -10 to 0 (he tested with a manual vaccum/boost
gauge). There is also a hesitation when the turbo kicks in .... this was
the only thing I found noticable and a worry. The noise also apparently
happens when you take your foot off the gas under high boost, but wait ...
it doesn't always make the noise!!! Other than that, the boost seems fine
.... after the hesitation, it pulls hard and constant ... he said it's max
is about 9psi.
So ... here's a summary of the posts I got back:
From Thomas F. Wahjudi:
> Does it lose turbo pressure at "working" rpm (higher rpm) also ? It might
be
> a
> faulty blowoff valve or maybe leaks between the valve and intake tract.
Hmm, well, he's checked for leaks and found two... and fixed them. Yes the
turbo seems to have no performance problems .. appart from the hesitation
when it kicks in.
From Kip Anderson:
> Is this a continuous/recurring noise under boost?
No, just the turbo whine ... I assume it's normal as I'm not use to turbos :
)
> How's it run at idle and when not on-boost?
idle is ok .. not SUPER smooth though, nothing i would pick as a problem
though ..... when not on-boost is smooth and fine.
> Is the power down when under boost?
No, doesn't seem to be : ) (weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)
> Could the sound be described as more of a "pop" than a "bang"?
beats me ... I couldn't really pick it out ... it's like trying to spot a
teeny tiny weeny little plane WAAAAAAAAAAAY up high in the clouds.
> Timing belt been replaced?
it's got 49K kms ... I would think not (they don't do those sorts of things
in japan)
> I honestly don't have a clue what the sound could be coming from by the
way
> you
> describe it. Can you provide better details?
From Kostas G. D. Chryssos
> There is NO PROBLEM there,
I'm starting to believe this one.
> the noise is correct. It is the pressure release
> valve that pops open when the gass pedal is released so there is NO
> overpressure exersised on the butterfly of the air intake.
what about the noise when boost builds up and the hesitation (which occur
about the same time)?
>This valve sits
> on the tube going from the turbo to the intercooler, and releives pressure
> to the tube into the turbo, it has two small rubber tubes which control it
> from the plenum. The clasping sound comes from the air relieved into the
> turbo input slaming closed the air flow measuring unit flap sitting on the
> air filter.
hmmm, a picture is worth a thousand words ... sigh
From Gerald San Agustin:
> maybe the turbo itself is going bad and the bearings are worn to a point
> where the compressor
> blade is hitting the turbo housing. Disconnect the turbo inlet pipe and
> check for any free play
> on the turbo shaft.
He did this ... he said there was a little bit of freeplay ... but no
hitting apparent.
From Scott MacLean
> My 91T did this, and I have heard a LOT of other Turbo owners who report
> the exact same symptom. My mechanic worked on it for a good 10 hours
> trying to figure it out (at a Toyota dealership, no less). There never
> really has been a definitive answer on the mailing list as to what
> causes it, or why some do it and some don't. But it doesn't seem to
> affect performance at ALL. My educated guess is that it is the
> wastegate, and some simply make noise, and others don't.
Hmmm, this one sounds pretty good to me!!!!!! Would a wastegate make this
noise at the start of boost? and would it be responsible for the
hesitation?
Well ... is that enough for you all to cope with? Sounds like this fantom
noise is nothing to worry about... seeing as everything else checks out ok.
I think I need to read a book on how turbos work .. I've read so much on
bits and pieces of them .. I just need to look at the whole picture now.
Any more ideas/opinions/etc would be most welcome : ) Please reply directly
to me.
Thanks heaps
Ade
adem@wairc.govt.nz
New Zealand
PS. is there any way to test the pop-off and wastegates?
PPS. the cat has been removed (no emission laws here ... yet!) .. would this
affect the turbo?/backpressure?
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:39:23 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: SOB! (*WOB?*)
As some may know, I'm in the market for an old hatchback Celica, one
of the 75-77 flavor. There is one on my way to work which has just
been sitting in the driveway of this new home which was built. Today
I stopped by, knocked on the door, and asked the owner if he would
sell it. He said "no!" I told him I had lots of money and other cars
that I could offer, and he said "nah." He's the original owner of
this beautiful 77. I'm going to start stopping by on my way home from
work every couple of days with larger offers until my bank account
expires or he weakens.
I've wanted one of these cars since they were new, back when I was a
young kid in junior high. If anyone knows where I can find one of
these, I am interested. I'm looking for a solid body, but if I could
find one that was a little messed up for cheap I'd pick it up for
parts. Beth, maybe Jeff has one that he'd part with?
Anxiously waiting...
Chris
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:46:46 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Tire Help
I know this thread gets kicked around from time to time, but I have a
friend that is looking for a recommendation for a good racing tire.
Unfortunately, tires I know nothing about! He wants a "semi-slick
competition tire" and mentioned the BFgoodrich Comp T/A R1. Does
anyone know about these tires and/or have some opinion on their
performance? He is doing wheel to wheel road racing in a Hyundai
Accent (hey, it's Korea!).
Thanks for any help...
Chris
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 17:35:08 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: Tire Help
From toyota-mods-owner@CyberAuto.Com Thu Feb 22 17:23:47 1996
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:46:46 -0500
From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Tire Help
>I know this thread gets kicked around from time to time, but I have a
>friend that is looking for a recommendation for a good racing tire.
>Unfortunately, tires I know nothing about! He wants a "semi-slick
>competition tire" and mentioned the BFgoodrich Comp T/A R1. Does
>anyone know about these tires and/or have some opinion on their
>performance? He is doing wheel to wheel road racing in a Hyundai
>Accent (hey, it's Korea!).
I'd like to say that I used the R1 series old and new.
The Autocrossing compound is WAAAAY too soft.
It heats up and becomes mush after 2 laps.
Get the roadracing compound.
There was a study and article about it recently in some magazine.
They recommended the Road Racing Compound also.
I currently still use my Yokohama A008's for daily street driving
however, have bought a set of Road Racing R1's a few months ago.
They both work great, but I belive the R1's are slightly faster and work
better, as shown that they are recommended tires by the Skip Barber
Sedan Racing School (where you learn to take your car to the limits)
One major note is that your friend is in Korea.
I belive the compounds are different. In The Orient, Yokohama sucks, and the
US Yokohama is way better (for the A008's at least) the Advan Nexus IS
the tire.
I would go with Potenza though, they are cheap and work fairly reliable
if its the same one as from Japan (they aren't DOT approved)
I'd suggest Advan Nexus if he wants to get serious nuff or Potenza's
for the track.
>Thanks for any help...
>Chris
Heh, see... I replied Chris =)
\
-Allen T Koji Kam
koji@i-one.com
1993 Rollerblade Tarmac
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Date: 22 Feb 96 23:19:22 EST
From: Alex Pun <75104.2070@compuserve.com>
To: "\"toyota-mods@cyberauto.c"
Subject: MR2's
I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo. What is the difference between the '91-'92 and the
'93-'95 Turbo MR2's? Also, were the newer Turbo MR2's outlawed in California?
I haven't seen one out here.
Alex
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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 22:13:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Phillip Dang
To: The Toyota Mods Mailing List
Subject: figuring out max advance on 3S-FE
Hi all,
What information would I need to figure out the maximum advance on a
3S-FE (found on late 80s Celicas and Camrys)? In other words, how far can
I safely set the timing before I risk putting a hole in the piston.
The timing marks on the engine only go to 15. Standard timing for the
3S-FE is 10 degrees BTDC. I'm running 13,14, or 15 (forget) degrees
BTDC without any pinging. BTW, my Celica does not have a knock sensor.
Phil
ez049105@rocky.ucdavis.edu 87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, auto, 99K miles
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From: Gary Hong
To: ptdang@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: figuring out max advance on 3S-FE
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 0:46:51 PST
From: Phillip Dang
>
>Hi all,
>
>What information would I need to figure out the maximum advance on a
>3S-FE (found on late 80s Celicas and Camrys)? In other words, how far can
>I safely set the timing before I risk putting a hole in the piston.
>
>The timing marks on the engine only go to 15. Standard timing for the
>3S-FE is 10 degrees BTDC. I'm running 13,14, or 15 (forget) degrees
>BTDC without any pinging. BTW, my Celica does not have a knock sensor.
>
>Phil
>ez049105@rocky.ucdavis.edu 87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, auto, 99K miles
Run your car advance enough until it pings, then back off a degree or two.
I have one of these timing lights with the little dial. I timed a friend's
brand new Altima with the dial set to the factory specs and the arrow was
dead on at 0 degrees.
Gary
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 01:22:40 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: M-Series Motor / Crank
My quick comment on the M Series motor.
Chris sorta mentioned to me that Supra owners etc etc would love
it if they could fit a 7M crank into a 4 - 5M block.
My question is....
Why would you want to ?
About 3 years ago at an HKS Seminar, they talked briefly about the
advances they made with HKS 1.
Apparently, they went with a 5M block, bored it out and shoved a 7M
head on it.
Mainly they were blowing motors after every race/run.
Something about the 5M crank being more "squared" or such then the 7M.
I'll try and find my old notes about this, but if you start with the 5M
block, and bore it out, the crank will be more balanced I belive.
You can flame me on this, however, thats what they told me.
-shrug-
-Allen T Koji Kam
1987 FX 16 GTS
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 07:31:47 EST
From: "G. D. Aucott"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
*** Resending note of 02/23/96 07:27
Hi! I'm re-subscribing under a new ID. I'll be testing this to make
sure it works all the time... I had trouble getting the system to hook
up.
Dave
1986 MR2, Silver
daucott@e-mail.com, golf1par@aol.com
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From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 11:10:35 CST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re: Tire Help
Consumers Reports rated them good for a "performance' tires. I have a set but
can't say how they would be for racing since I have not pushed them. I think
there were better tires for cornering and control but I pick these because they
had excellent wet road traction.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Tire Help
Author: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer) at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/22/96 9:00 PM
I know this thread gets kicked around from time to time, but I have a
friend that is looking for a recommendation for a good racing tire.
Unfortunately, tires I know nothing about! He wants a "semi-slick
competition tire" and mentioned the BFgoodrich Comp T/A R1. Does anyone
know about these tires and/or have some opinion on their performance?
He is doing wheel to wheel road racing in a Hyundai Accent (hey, it's
Korea!).
Thanks for any help...
Chris
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:14:46 -0800
From: squelch@ix.netcom.com (John Welch )
Subject: Paseo Tranmission
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
I'm in need of another 5 speed manual trans out of a '92-'94 Paseo
The trans model number is C-150...
Any sources ?
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To: toyota-mods
From: Steven Jackson/CAM/Lotus
Date: 23 Feb 96 16:34:40 EST
Subject: Re: Tire Help
The B.F. Goodrich Comp T/A R1 is THE tire for bush league/grassroots
motorsports in the US. Anytime a DOT (Department of Transportation)-legal tire
is required for a racing class, the R1 is the tire of choice. All but a few
folks run anything else for SCCA Pro Solo or SCCA Showroom Stock (SSA, SSB, and
SSC) road racing. Certainly there can be more than one reason even for an
overwhelming popularity, and reasons can be other than that something's simply
the best. In this case, it's also the best tire for certain classes of racing.
One of the tire's attractions is it's asymmetrical carcass, and stiff outer
sidewall construction. The tire requires less wheel camber, so it's a tire
that's especially desirable where it might be difficult to get more needed
camber and also stay inside of some class rules.
At one time there were a couple of different compounds available, but last year
they only offered one, the 230. The softer 226 was discontinued much to dismay
of autocross/Solo II folks. The 226 was not a road racing tire, it was very
soft and designed to get up to temperature very quickly. Yokohama still offers
two compounds of the A-008, the RS and the RS II. But again, comparatively few
folks, certainly in the pro ranks, are racing on these. I currently run the
road racing Yokohamas on one of my cars and really don't have any complaints.
The BFG R1 and Yokohamas are just about the same price for the same tire size,
so there's not a price issue between the two. Recently, Toyo has made a entre
into this tire class and some folks have given them a try, but I don't know the
results. Then there are the non-DOT legal tires, but that's another topic
altogether--slicks like the those made by Hoosier, and the ubiquitous Goodyear
Eagles.
As a point of interest, one of the BFG racing tire designers was in the
autocross Internet list and was happy to field questions. That person isn't me.
And I'm not tryin' to sell the things.
Oh, just a few more things, there's quite a lot of support available, at least
here in the US, from BFG. There's a newsletter, tech support, etc. Also, to
purchase the tires you need to be a member of team T/A. It doesn't cost
anything to join--you just fill out a form, send it in, and you get a
membership card back that plugs you into the program.
Have fun,
- Steven
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Tire Help
Author: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer) at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/22/96 9:00 PM
I know this thread gets kicked around from time to time, but I have a
friend that is looking for a recommendation for a good racing tire.
Unfortunately, tires I know nothing about! He wants a "semi-slick
competition tire" and mentioned the BFgoodrich Comp T/A R1. Does anyone
know about these tires and/or have some opinion on their performance?
He is doing wheel to wheel road racing in a Hyundai Accent (hey, it's
Korea!).
Thanks for any help...
Chris
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:49:19 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: SOB! (*WOB?*)
Many folks are surprised that I haven't been able to find a early-model
Celica hatchback where I am. The problem is that when you live in
Florida, especially on the coast, everything rots unless you keep it
in the garage. Unfortunately, 20 year old "sport-economy" cars don't
rate a garage spot for most folks.
As Koji can attest, the place to go car shopping is in the desert,
like in Las Vegas where his dad lives. His dad owns more classic cars
and hot rods than most people have pairs of underwear. The funny part
is that I'm not kidding! The streets of Las Vegas of full of beautiful
old iron, and I'm sure that if I lived there I'd have a stable full
too.
Charles F. wrote me and mentioned that he is hogging _3_ of these
babies for himself in San Antonio, Texas. Some guys have all the
luck! Charles, you should get an 18RG from Jeff at Toyz Unlimited
and drop into one of those Celica's of yours for an extra thrill.
Chris
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:05:21 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
From toyota-mods-owner@CyberAuto.Com Fri Feb 23 17:56:40 1996
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:49:19 -0500
From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: SOB! (*WOB?*)
>Many folks are surprised that I haven't been able to find a early-model
>Celica hatchback where I am. The problem is that when you live in
>Florida, especially on the coast, everything rots unless you keep it
>in the garage. Unfortunately, 20 year old "sport-economy" cars don't
>rate a garage spot for most folks.
Heh, I have a "Toyota ECM" from a 1977 Celica GT Liftback rusting in
the garage. Nice overhead display and several other nice lights.
I think thats what its called.
>As Koji can attest, the place to go car shopping is in the desert,
>like in Las Vegas where his dad lives. His dad owns more classic cars
>and hot rods than most people have pairs of underwear. The funny part
>is that I'm not kidding! The streets of Las Vegas of full of beautiful
>old iron, and I'm sure that if I lived there I'd have a stable full
>too.
Heh yeah...try living in Hawaii, we got more Salt air den anything else
Heh, yeah...goto the desert or like some country place where they got
no snow and little rain etc etc. Best deals on "imports" found there.
Friend picked up a 1990 Turbo Supra in Nebraska or something... for
like $4000 with leather interior and sports top.
-boggle-
Yeah, Dad has a lot of Hot Rod's V8's etc etc, thats why i'm not impressed
by them much =) Maybe next time Chris... we'll go and take a nice cruise =)
>Charles F. wrote me and mentioned that he is hogging _3_ of these
>babies for himself in San Antonio, Texas. Some guys have all the
>luck! Charles, you should get an 18RG from Jeff at Toyz Unlimited
>and drop into one of those Celica's of yours for an extra thrill.
Heh, that 18RG motor is damm kewl =)
Although, parts ? They still available ?
>Chris
-Allen T Koji Kam
1987 Toyota FX-16
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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 23:09:45 -0800
From: Joe Ernst
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: 5MGE/7MGE interchangeability / Differential Questions
I am wondering if the 5MGE engine out of my '84 Supra can be replaced
with the 7MGE, or any other larger displacement engine.
I am relatively unfamiliar with Toyota engines, so if anyone can describe
the differences/similarities between the families of engines, I would
appreciate it.
Also, if any internal parts (cranks, rods, pistons) can be swapped to
gain cc's, or compression,that may help.
Also, does anyone have any comments on the Supra differential? Mine may
need to be replaced soon, and since I am going to make performance
upgrades, I should replace the differential with something strong enough
to handle some added HP.
Did any Toyotas come from the factory with limited slip differentials?
Thanks,
Joe
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 08:52:09 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon)
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name : Steve Bagdon
Location : Ferndale, MI (First city _north_ of Detroit, MI, by 1 1/2
blocks)
Model : '85 MR2 NA, '91 MR2 Turbo
Engine : 4AGE, 3S-GTE
Mods : None on the '85, being parted out. Just bought the '91 last
month
email : bagdon@rust.net
bagdon@rust.net
Katharine and Steve Bagdon
-----------
'85 N/A 169,000 miles (being parted out)
'91 Turbo 77,000 miles (being enjoyed to the fullest)
http://www.rust.net/~bagdon/mr2.html
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From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: 5MGE/7MGE interchangeability / Differential Questions
To: joeje@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Joe Ernst)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 17:21:57 +0200 (EET)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
> I am wondering if the 5MGE engine out of my '84 Supra can be replaced
> with the 7MGE, or any other larger displacement engine.
Yes it can. I'd recommend the 7M-GTE.
Read Reg's report on his upgrade:
http://www.magicnet.net/~joeg/turbo_mag/83supra.html
> I am relatively unfamiliar with Toyota engines, so if anyone can describe
> the differences/similarities between the families of engines, I would
> appreciate it.
Thou shall look through my home pages, there is plenty of info
on Toyotas and the engines in particular.
> Also, if any internal parts (cranks, rods, pistons) can be swapped to
> gain cc's, or compression,that may help.
In case of M series engines, this may be possible but probably not
beneficial.
> Also, does anyone have any comments on the Supra differential? Mine may
> need to be replaced soon, and since I am going to make performance
> upgrades, I should replace the differential with something strong enough
> to handle some added HP.
>
> Did any Toyotas come from the factory with limited slip differentials?
Yes, lots of them. Most Supras came with one.
A stock Toyota diff in good condition will be strong enough.
But if you have $'s to spend, you could get the TRD one which
has "tighter" limited slip function.
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 19:06:45 -1000
From: Allen T Koji Kam
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, koji@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From cmyer@cyberauto.com Sat Feb 24 17:56:31 1996
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 22:05:32 -0500
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
>Yes, the owner of the car I looked at mentioned this. What is it?
>Some sort of a digital display or something? He mentioned that his
>was getting sort of "worn out" or going dim or something.
Correct, it monitored several functions.
Can't remeber exactly..
But I belive it only did come with the liftback models.
>Chris
-Koji
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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 21:47:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Phillip Dang
To: Gary Hong
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: figuring out max advance on 3S-FE
On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Gary Hong wrote:
>
> Run your car advance enough until it pings, then back off a degree or two.
>
This is the method I do use. Does anyone have an actual number they may
provide for maximum timing advance?
It's not like I run racing fuel or anything, but somehow I'd like to get
most power out of this family-car oriented motor without risking damage.
Phil
ez049105@rocky.ucdavis.edu 87 Celica ST, 3S-FE, auto, 99K miles
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From: GThomp4313@aol.com
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:24:51 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: ME/MINE/MODS
Troy Thompson
PO Box 44786
Rio Rancho NM 87124
I am employed at the Santa Anna Star Casino located on the outskirts of Albq.
NM.
I have a 1994 Toyota Supra Turbo Black With Tan interior, which I purchased
new 2.5 years ago.
The following is a list of the modifications that I have done to my car.
1.
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From: Gary Hong
To: joeje@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: 5MGE/7MGE interchangeability / Differential Questions
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 4:29:04 PST
From: Joe Ernst
>
>I am wondering if the 5MGE engine out of my '84 Supra can be replaced
>with the 7MGE, or any other larger displacement engine.
Joe, you can swap the 5MGE with a 7MGE. If you are going to do that, you
might was well put in the 7MGTE. You may need to modify the oil pan though.
Reg Reimer on the supra list has done this. His car is featured in Turbo
and European Car mag. A few other guys have done this conversion on the
supra list. Image, an 84 supra doing 11-12 second quarter mile. 0-60 in 5.x
seconds.
Gary
Ps. I hope you don't live in CA.
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From: GThomp4313@aol.com
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 07:40:02 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: ME/Mine /Mods
Troy Thompson
PO Box 44786
Rio Rancho, New Mexico
I am employed at the Santa Anna Star Casino (I work in the live games area)
I have a black 1994 Twin Turbo Supra with tan interior.
The following is a list of modifications that I have done.
1.Ebach springs
2.R.S. Akimoto exhaust
3.HKS EVC
4.Greedy Turbo Timer
5.Fuel cut defencer
6.Superchips computerchip
7.R.S Akimoto intake
8.I have also removed the top speed limiter.
Sitting in a box waiting to be installed. is:
1. NOS (I can't remember the exact HP but it is under 70
2. Blow-off valve
3. Stillen drilled rotors with pads.
I have on back order from Eurox straight pipes.
I also found a company in Cal. that will that my existing throttle body and
map it enlarge it etc. (I drilled holes in it for the nitros so I can not do
an exchange).
I am waiting for HKS to come out with thier VPC for the Automatic.
I have two freinds in ALBQ. with Supras that have installed the above
mentioned items on thier cars, and have had imense gains.
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 13:13:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Bruce
Subject: Can Toy-Mods be set to Digest?
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Is there any way that the Toyota-mods mailing list be set to Digest? Have
regular Toyota mailing list set to digest and this is a great benefit. Thanks.
Kevin Bruce
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 15:19:08 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: figuring out max advance on 3S-FE
>This is the method I do use. Does anyone have an actual number they may
>provide for maximum timing advance?
>
>It's not like I run racing fuel or anything, but somehow I'd like to get
>most power out of this family-car oriented motor without risking damage.
Well, there's not a specific number or anything like that. Every little
thing will affect the point at which pre-detonation occurs, for example:
fuel octane
outside air temperature
engine operating temperature
atmospheric conditions
Carbon buildup in cylinders
All of these things change randomly. Setting your timing exactly to the
point where predetonation occurs and then backing off until it quits is
a good theory, and one that I share with people all the time myself, but
you must realize that any little change in any of the variables above
will have you back out of perfect timing. Not only that, but it is
really difficult to check and adjust your timing under load, which is
where pinging occurs. I never could get my race car to ping under idle,
even if I cranked it around to 25 degrees of idle advance (over 45 degrees
of advance at 5000 rpm!)
So, what's the answer? Well, it's just one of those very soft sciences,
one that must be learned by practice and experience rather than read
from a book. I wouldn't say that I'm great at it myself. If you had a
rolling road dyno, you could set the timing to be absolutely perfect at
a given rpm. Unfortunately, let any of the above variable change and
you're again "less than perfect."
Someday, when CAP has a rolling road dyno, we'll publish a nice handy
list of "general best case" timing settings which should give good power
under all situations.
BTW, you mentioned that you didn't want to burn a hole in a piston.
Actually, the much more tragic scenario when timing gets out of whack
is bent rods, broken pistons, or broken cranks, from the slamming of
the flamefront into the rising piston (that's the "ping" anyway.)
Very awesome to see. I've seen cranks busted cleanly in two from this.
I've also seen a rod that was saved from busting (and going through the
side of an engine) when the operator heard the strong pinging and
immediately shut the motor down. It is difficult to describe the rod
with words, but on one side of the I-beam a part was broken completely
off, and the other side was curved and about to break. Being fast on
the off-switch meant this guy only had to buy one rod and rebuild the
motor.
Chris
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From: Matti Kalalahti
Subject: Re: Supercharged engines
To: AdeM@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Adrienne Mora)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:46:10 +0200 (EET)
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com (Toyota-Mods mailing list)
> Ok, now a while ago some of you (think it was Koji and Gerald) mentioned
> that there are two versions of the SCed engine (4AGZE). One with two coils
> and more HP ... and a 'normal' one. Me and my boyfriend are going to be
> building a lotus 7 replica and want to put in a 4AGZE .... we've got a bit
> of time before the kit arrives (in september) to collect parts so we thought
> we'd find out more about this higher HP one!! : ) So far we know that it
> has two coils and more HP .... what other differences are there? what about
> the pulleys?? How can we tell from looking at the engine (say, at a
> wreckers) if it's the hotter one? (if the coils are not with it anymore).
Compression ratio is higher in the 163hp version (8.9:1 vs 8.0:1).
I'd expect the distributor to be different looking (or completely missing).
--
Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82
k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm
A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 20:56:25 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon)
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name : Steve Bagdon
Location : Ferndale, MI
Model : '85 MR2 NA, '91 MR2 Turbo
Engine : 4AGE, 3S-GTE(?)
Mods : none
email : bagdon@rust.net
bagdon@rust.net
Katharine and Steve Bagdon
-----------
'85 N/A 169,000 miles (being parted out)
'91 Turbo 77,000 miles (being enjoyed to the fullest)
http://www.rust.net/~bagdon/mr2.html
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:10:19 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Pyyvaara
To: Kevin Bruce
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Can Toy-Mods be set to Digest?
On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Kevin Bruce wrote:
> Is there any way that the Toyota-mods mailing list be set to Digest? Have
> regular Toyota mailing list set to digest and this is a great benefit. Thanks.
> Kevin Bruce
Tis on my todo list at some stage...unfortunately my new job has
prevented me from persuing this. Hopefully in the not too distant future
I will get around to setting this up. (Oh for an extra few hours each day :(
Cheers,
Paul.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-Paul Pyyvaara - paulp@Bond.edu.au-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-Senior Network Programmer - Information Technology Services-=
=-=-B O N D U N I V E R S I T Y, QLD, 4229, AUSTRALIA=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-Phone:(+61 7 5595 1412) Fax:(+61 7 5595 1456)-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 21:29:37 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: 91 MR2 Turbo
>I am about to make some modifications to my car in order to increase
>performance. My goal is to maximize the potential of the car without
>reducing drivability and reliability.
>Here is what has been suggested.
>
>the Greddy Profec, and Greddy Fule Cut Eliminator
>
>so that I can get more boost from the turbo
Good start!
>Nology Hot Wires, and Beru Silver Plugs and also a Nology Power Core, and a
>Nology Coil.
Avoid these--big con job! Get a good spiral-core ignition wire, such as
those from Magnecor, and use NGK plugs. Did the folks that tried to sell
these to you mention that they're not technically street legal? Did they
talk about how they'll throw your ECU into a dither and make the idle
start breaking up? Probably not. If you need more spark than a good
set of plug wires can provide, go with a Crane ignition box and coil.
All of this is going to leave you with a bunch of money that would have
been wasted with the Nology/Beru setup.
Chris
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:16:28 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: Trust exhausts?
>Does anyone have any (educated) opinions on the quality and performance
>of Trust exhausts? Thanks.
Uh, depends on what you call educated! ;-) Seriously, the GReddy/Trust
exhausts are probably the best you can get for the cars for which they
are made. The problem (as Dave Aucott points out) is that they are
currently very hard to get! Last time I checked they were 6-8 weeks
out for the MR2, and that wasn't a promise! Fortunately, the HKS
exhaust is nearly identical in design and quality.
Chris
--
Christopher P. Myer
Cyberspace Automotive Performance
www.cyberauto.com
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:30:31 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: M-Series Motor / Crank
>My quick comment on the M Series motor.
>
>Chris sorta mentioned to me that Supra owners etc etc would love
>it if they could fit a 7M crank into a 4 - 5M block.
>
>My question is....
>
>Why would you want to ?
Well, because it would add about .2 liters to a 5M motor. Putting
the 5M pistons and 7M crank in a 4m would net you .4 liters, a 20%
increase in displacement!
>Apparently, they went with a 5M block, bored it out and shoved a 7M
>head on it.
>Mainly they were blowing motors after every race/run.
>Something about the 5M crank being more "squared" or such then the 7M.
I don't know about this. I'm not talking about boring the 5M any more
though, since the stock 5M and 7M are the same size bore. I think that
if you did it carefully you'd get fairly cheap added displacement. This
is important in places that didn't get the 7M motor, or don't have very
many of them.
Chris
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From: Golf1par@aol.com
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:41:55 -0500
ve the unique opportunity to obtain a SECOND '86 MR2 for next to nothing.
The body is solid and the price irresistable, but it's an AUTO!!! Now, I
appreciate those who like autos, and in certain traffic jams they're well
worth it, but I don't want one!
I'm just wondering... how difficult would the switch be from auto to 5-speed
in an '86 MR2? I've done the switch in an early Z car, but of course that's
totally different. Is there anything in the computer, layout, etc. that
would prevent this from being a simple "scrap the old" and "put in the new"
exercise??
I realize I need a trans, cables, pedals, trim, clutch, lines, slave, master
cyl, bolts....
Has anyone done this? d:]
Dave
1986 MR2 - hey, it was 60 degrees here today!! Won't be long now...
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From: "Gary Friedman"
To: mr2-digest@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:55:24 +0000
Subject: Stereo Code
I don't think I worded my other message too well (:~
The" SEC" ONLY FLASHES ON START-UP. The system works normally.
I want to try to change the code without putting myself in a position
where it is locked up because I can't exit the re-program sequence
without the magic missing numbers.
Gary
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 05:08:06 -0500
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon)
Subject: me/mine/mods
Name : Steve Bagdon
Location : Ferndale, MI
Model : '85 MR2 NA, '91 MR2 Turbo
Engine : 4AGE, 3S-GTE(?)
Mods : none
email : bagdon@rust.net
bagdon@rust.net
Katharine and Steve Bagdon
-----------
'85 N/A 169,000 miles (being parted out)
'91 Turbo 77,000 miles (being enjoyed to the fullest)
http://www.rust.net/~bagdon/mr2.html
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 08:55:29 EST
From: "G. D. Aucott"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: Trust Exhausts
>>Uh, depends on what you call educated! ;-) Seriously, the GReddy/Trust
>>exhausts are probably the best you can get for the cars for which they
>>are made. The problem (as Dave Aucott points out) is that they are
>>currently very hard to get! Last time I checked they were 6-8 weeks
>>out for the MR2, and that wasn't a promise! Fortunately, the HKS
>>exhaust is nearly identical in design and quality.
Yes, they are hard to get... some guy in Texas is probably enjoying mine right
now. As Chris and I are painfully aware, people sometimes will help themselves
to packages in transit. My Greddy pipe (the only one the distributor had) was
"lifted" from the UPS truck on it's way here from California. Many thanks to
Chris and Cyberspace Automotive for standing behind their products, and I'll
let you all know how good the HKS pipe is this spring.
Dave
1986 MR2
daucott@e-mail.com, golf1par@aol.com
..............
G. Dave Aucott
1998 FN145 Structures
32-39181 Internet: daucott@e-mail.com
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From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:16:32 CST
To: cmyer@cyberspace.cyberauto.com, koji@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re[2]: SOB (*WOB?*)
I think all of mine are faulty. The indicate I have problems which are not
correct. The device monitors the car and indicates failures. Some of the
things it checks are:
Brake lining wear
Engine oil level
Window washer level
Radiator reservoir level
Brake and Clutch fluid
Lights?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
Author: Allen T Koji Kam at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/24/96 11:34 PM
From cmyer@cyberauto.com Sat Feb 24 17:56:31 1996
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 22:05:32 -0500
From: cmyer@cyberauto.com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
>Yes, the owner of the car I looked at mentioned this. What is it?
>Some sort of a digital display or something? He mentioned that his
>was getting sort of "worn out" or going dim or something.
Correct, it monitored several functions.
Can't remeber exactly..
But I belive it only did come with the liftback models.
>Chris
-Koji
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:40:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "mitchell r. baghdoian"
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: me/mine/mods
Me: Mitch Baghdoian
Ann Arbor, Michigan (Mechanical Engineering)
Mine/Mods:
86 MR2- stock
86 MR2- parts car
85 Corolla GTS- stock, w/189,000 miles (winter car)
85 Corolla GTS- on its way to becoming a trailered auto-x
machine (but that damn money thing keeps things going slowly)
89 CRX Si- HKS intake, cat-back exhaust (oops, wrong list)
My better half's / Mods:
86 MR2- K&N, 2.5" exhaust w/superloud (I mean supertrapp), Tokico
Illuminas, TRD busings, adjustable swaybars (I forgot the brand),
springs cut 1/2 coil, lotsa camber on all four corners
85 Corolla GTS- cat-back exhaust (winter car)
Engines: 4A-GE
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From: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@platinum.brooks.af.mil
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 10:38:10 CST
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re[2]: SOB (*WOB?*)
I think all of mine are faulty. They indicate I have problems which are not
correct. The device monitors the car and indicates failures. Some of the
things it checks are:
Brake lining wear
Engine oil level
Window washer level
Radiator reservoir level
Brake and Clutch fluid
Lights?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
Author: Allen T Koji Kam at INTERNET-HUB
Date: 2/23/96 10:37 PM
From toyota-mods-owner@CyberAuto.Com Fri Feb 23 17:56:40 1996
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:49:19 -0500
From: cmyer@CyberAuto.Com (Christopher Myer)
Subject: Re: SOB! (*WOB?*)
>Many folks are surprised that I haven't been able to find a early-model
>Celica hatchback where I am. The problem is that when you live in
>Florida, especially on the coast, everything rots unless you keep it
>in the garage. Unfortunately, 20 year old "sport-economy" cars don't
>rate a garage spot for most folks.
Heh, I have a "Toyota ECM" from a 1977 Celica GT Liftback rusting in
the garage. Nice overhead display and several other nice lights.
I think thats what its called.
>As Koji can attest, the place to go car shopping is in the desert,
>like in Las Vegas where his dad lives. His dad owns more classic cars
>and hot rods than most people have pairs of underwear. The funny part
>is that I'm not kidding! The streets of Las Vegas of full of beautiful
>old iron, and I'm sure that if I lived there I'd have a stable full
>too.
Heh yeah...try living in Hawaii, we got more Salt air den anything else
Heh, yeah...goto the desert or like some country place where they got
no snow and little rain etc etc. Best deals on "imports" found there.
Friend picked up a 1990 Turbo Supra in Nebraska or something... for
like $4000 with leather interior and sports top.
-boggle-
Yeah, Dad has a lot of Hot Rod's V8's etc etc, thats why i'm not impressed
by them much =) Maybe next time Chris... we'll go and take a nice cruise =)
>Charles F. wrote me and mentioned that he is hogging _3_ of these
>babies for himself in San Antonio, Texas. Some guys have all the
>luck! Charles, you should get an 18RG from Jeff at Toyz Unlimited
>and drop into one of those Celica's of yours for an extra thrill.
Heh, that 18RG motor is damm kewl =)
Although, parts ? They still available ?
>Chris
-Allen T Koji Kam
1987 Toyota FX-16
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:09:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "mitchell r. baghdoian"
To: seldon
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: me/mine/mods
Hi Kieth.
I dunno about swapping in a late model turbo motor (sounds expensive to
me), but you can get a replacement motor for about $650 delivered to your
door. Call K. Watanabe (it's an 800 number that you can get from the
1-800 information line) in L.A. and tell him what you need. The motor
will be about $400, plus $50 for the core, plus about $150 for crating
and shipping. I got one delivered to my door for $652. I pulled it down
and it was clean and within specs, so I stuffed it into my girlfriends
car. That was a couple years and nearly 40K miles ago. Hope this helps.
Mitch in MI
On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, seldon wrote:
> Hey, I'm keith o'toole, I live in overland park, ks (suburban Kansas City)
> and have an 86 MR2 normally aspirated with auto. It has the basic 4A-GE
> engine with no mods and 100k+. I am now in need of a new engine thanks to a
> faulty oil pump and a lead foot. I'm wondering what it would take to get a
> late model engine w/turbo into my engine bay, but then I'd still be stuck
> with the auto (well, anyone else converted auto to stick?) so I may just sell
> it off and buy a cheap 91 turbo or 88-89 supercharged. you can reach me at:
>
> seldon@inf.net
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:31:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "mitchell r. baghdoian"
To: Charles_Flick_at_ya721@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Cc: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com,
Subject: Re: Re[2]: SOB (*WOB?*)
>
> Heh, that 18RG motor is damm kewl =)
>
> Although, parts ? They still available ?
>
> >Chris
>
> -Allen T Koji Kam
> 1987 Toyota FX-16
>
I believe you can get virtually any 18RG ot 2TG part you want through TRD.
Mitch in MI
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 10:39:32 PST
From: asano@rambus.com (Richard Asano)
To: toyota-mods@cyberspace.cyberauto.com
Subject: Re: SOB (*WOB?*)
>I think all of mine are faulty. The indicate I have problems which are not
>correct. The device monitors the car and indicates failures. Some of the
>things it checks are:
>Brake lining wear
>Engine oil level
>Window washer level
>Radiator reservoir level
>Brake and Clutch fluid
>Lights?
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
>Subject: RE: SOB (*WOB?*)
>Author: Allen T Koji Kam